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02-03 R1 Mechanical Help Mechanical and Critical Issues for the 02-03 R1

 
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post #20381 of 20613 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanQ View Post
Here's a link to an explanation by Andrew Trevitt in his blog:

http://www.insidemotorcycles.com/com...-part-two.html
Dan,
Two questions....

1) so sss is right that lowering the front will reduce trail and thus stability (all other things being equal)?

2) What are you doing on that page? that was 4 years ago!


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post #20382 of 20613 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
Good to see Andrew still working! Has he recovered much?
He's adjusting to life well, and still very active in providing information. Lately a lot of his work seems to be more technically in depth (from an engineering standpoint) than it once was. So I'm enjoying keeping up with the stuff. There is so much to the science that I can understand, recognize, and adjust for that I just don't have the vocabulary to articulate that I find myself constantly turning to him, Dave Moss and a small handful of others to try to make sense of.

It's a lot of fun compared to when I was playing with (automotive) engines. The interaction of the variables comes out in so many possible iterations that sometimes it's like trying to push a brick with a wet noodle. I'm sure doing headwork and fuel system tuning etc is exactly the same, but for some reason I chose to become obsessive about chassis tuning.

I'll give Andrew your regards next time I email him! I'm very glad there are folks that remember him and his circumstances


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post #20383 of 20613 (permalink) Old 07-27-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
Dan,
Two questions....

1) so sss is right that lowering the front will reduce trail and thus stability (all other things being equal)?

2) What are you doing on that page? that was 4 years ago!
1) He is correct that lowering the front will reduce trail. And that may reduce stability by taking away from the castor effect that trail provides.

2) I have OCD, and it's bothered me ever since that discussion took place that I could never properly articulate an answer. I can visualize it. And I can show it and change it at the track. But outside of what Andrew has posted on his blog, I can't find the words to explain it.

I have one rider I tune for that I might be able to talk into modifying things and trying to display it. But most of the fast, consistent guys I tune for really don't want me "experimenting" with their setups once they are good with them. Kyle_M is learning tons about chassis setup, and now that he's got a shock built for him, he's really providing feedback at a rate that I can't even keep notes on. One of the reasons I'm glad I stay in Intermediate while everyone else runs Advanced


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Dan
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05 YZF-R6 (track bike)
05 Vmax 20th Anniversary 98 of 2000
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post #20384 of 20613 (permalink) Old 08-01-2012, 07:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
Good to see Andrew still working! Has he recovered much?
Just got an email back. He's still contributing to the magazine, and has no real desire at the moment to return to riding. But still seems to enjoy participation as he can get it.

We're having an ongoing discussion about the trail / contact patch thing. When I can translate, I'll post up. Very interesting stuff I'm learning from him. I'm glad I read his book.


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Dan
R1-016 'Venom' Squadron Member
CCS #598
91 FZR 1000
04 YZF-R1

05 YZF-R6 (track bike)
05 Vmax 20th Anniversary 98 of 2000
04 Road Star Warrior


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post #20385 of 20613 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanQ View Post
Just got an email back. He's still contributing to the magazine, and has no real desire at the moment to return to riding. But still seems to enjoy participation as he can get it.

We're having an ongoing discussion about the trail / contact patch thing. When I can translate, I'll post up. Very interesting stuff I'm learning from him. I'm glad I read his book.
Sounds like he's found a way to stay in the field. Good for him!
I only hope I could stay as positive if our situations were reversed.


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Originally Posted by marcaztls View Post
I just want to stroke it all the time. (For you BSR )
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post #20386 of 20613 (permalink) Old 08-02-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
Sounds like he's found a way to stay in the field. Good for him!
I only hope I could stay as positive if our situations were reversed.
I hear you on that! He has remained positive, and extremely polite.


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Dan
R1-016 'Venom' Squadron Member
CCS #598
91 FZR 1000
04 YZF-R1

05 YZF-R6 (track bike)
05 Vmax 20th Anniversary 98 of 2000
04 Road Star Warrior


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post #20387 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 02:22 PM
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Has anyone considered boring out the throttle bodies since the head can take more air with head work ?

Any see a good lift with oversized valves and head work together ?

Tuned by Bugaj

"In pursuit of more speed with the same power"


my "back from the dead" thread:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/107-r1-forum-bike-month/263176-my-99-r1-back-dead.html


99 R1 parts for sale :
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/151-bike-parts-sale/307491-fs-98-99-r1-aftermarket-parts.html
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post #20388 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Death R1 View Post
Has anyone considered boring out the throttle bodies since the head can take more air with head work ?

Any see a good lift with oversized valves and head work together ?
Like this?

ported throttle bodies/stacks/airbox


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Originally Posted by marcaztls View Post
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post #20389 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
yes ..any threads on oversized valves ?

Tuned by Bugaj

"In pursuit of more speed with the same power"


my "back from the dead" thread:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263176


99 R1 parts for sale :
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307491
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post #20390 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Death R1 View Post
yes ..any threads on oversized valves ?
I heard from a source that was pretty knowledgeable that oversized valves were not beneficial for R1's.
That was for the 04-06 models though, I don't know anything about the newer models.


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I just want to stroke it all the time. (For you BSR )
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post #20391 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Death R1 View Post
yes ..any threads on oversized valves ?
originally posted by R1scooter:

"Porting only of the 04-05 head is good for around 5-7hp. But that with a real valve seat job (4angle cut with a blend into the throat) will get you into the 12+hp gain range. BUT, do not cut too far. Do not cut too far. Do not cut too far. There will be a piont where you remove around 17-20 thousands off the floor of the ports. DO NOT GO ANY Further. You will not see gains past that point. The port will out flow the valves and you will lose enough velocity that the mid range WILL suffer. The only fix at that point is larger valves. That head has not shown much improvement with the larger valves by the ones I've played with. Also, the seats in this head do not meet the throat very well. You will notice a "step" on the inside of the intake runners, just under the seat. Blend this by taking a small part of the seat off where it meets the head. Also, completely removing the guides from the intakes doesn't seem to help the flow that much. Blend them in on the intake side, but don't remove them completely. Balance the combustion chambers while you're at it. Stock chamber displacment is around 12.7 cc's. Mill the head .017" and you'll drop that too around 11.7. The stock chamber has plently of material that shrouding the valves which can be removed. The real gains on this head are at the seat/ valve section. Backcutting the valve is also advisable on this bike. Do that to the 04-05 heads and you'll see real differences.

I saw on here once where some one was claiming a port/ valve job shouldn't cost more than $500. A real job on this head takes a LONG time. But it really does pay off. 12+ is obtainable with no ill effects whatsoever. And it retains all the reliability of the stock bike. Good luck"


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Originally Posted by marcaztls View Post
I just want to stroke it all the time. (For you BSR )
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post #20392 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
I heard from a source that was pretty knowledgeable that oversized valves were not beneficial for R1's.
That was for the 04-06 models though, I don't know anything about the newer models.
What about the 98/99 heads ?

This doesn't seem to make much mechanical sense. A motor is like an air pump. Within reason, more air and more fuel -- more power. Larger valves coupled with head work should allow more air into and out of the combustion process. Can someone with experience provide a more technical response?

Thanks

Opps --reading the thread above now

Tuned by Bugaj

"In pursuit of more speed with the same power"


my "back from the dead" thread:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263176


99 R1 parts for sale :
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307491
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post #20393 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR-1 View Post
originally posted by R1scooter:

"Porting only of the 04-05 head is good for around 5-7hp. But that with a real valve seat job (4angle cut with a blend into the throat) will get you into the 12+hp gain range. BUT, do not cut too far. Do not cut too far. Do not cut too far. There will be a piont where you remove around 17-20 thousands off the floor of the ports. DO NOT GO ANY Further. You will not see gains past that point. The port will out flow the valves and you will lose enough velocity that the mid range WILL suffer. The only fix at that point is larger valves. That head has not shown much improvement with the larger valves by the ones I've played with. Also, the seats in this head do not meet the throat very well. You will notice a "step" on the inside of the intake runners, just under the seat. Blend this by taking a small part of the seat off where it meets the head. Also, completely removing the guides from the intakes doesn't seem to help the flow that much. Blend them in on the intake side, but don't remove them completely. Balance the combustion chambers while you're at it. Stock chamber displacment is around 12.7 cc's. Mill the head .017" and you'll drop that too around 11.7. The stock chamber has plently of material that shrouding the valves which can be removed. The real gains on this head are at the seat/ valve section. Backcutting the valve is also advisable on this bike. Do that to the 04-05 heads and you'll see real differences.

I saw on here once where some one was claiming a port/ valve job shouldn't cost more than $500. A real job on this head takes a LONG time. But it really does pay off. 12+ is obtainable with no ill effects whatsoever. And it retains all the reliability of the stock bike. Good luck"

What about the 98/99 heads ? Any experience on the forum with oversized valves and head work combintations ?

Tuned by Bugaj

"In pursuit of more speed with the same power"


my "back from the dead" thread:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263176


99 R1 parts for sale :
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307491
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post #20394 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Death R1 View Post
What about the 98/99 heads ? Any experience on the forum with oversized valves and head work combintations ?
Not that I know about except what R1scooter said previously.
If you can get Tim's attention, maybe he can help.
As far as people that I know of Tim is THE BEST.


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I just want to stroke it all the time. (For you BSR )
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post #20395 of 20613 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 07:33 PM
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Honestly, if you want more power, by any means at all (I mean does it matter how it's gotten), Send your motor to Tim. Have you seen what he did for Mark's 03?


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post #20396 of 20613 (permalink) Old 11-02-2012, 09:28 PM
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Anyone left in here?

Suspension Tuning help for R1s by Dave Moss.


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Dan
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05 Vmax 20th Anniversary 98 of 2000
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post #20397 of 20613 (permalink) Old 11-03-2012, 09:36 AM
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Anyone left in here?
Seems kinda quiet since something has apparently happened to Mark.....


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post #20398 of 20613 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 05:43 PM
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R1 Forum is not what it used to be . What happened ?
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post #20399 of 20613 (permalink) Old 11-04-2012, 06:30 PM
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R1 Forum is not what it used to be . What happened ?
I wish I knew.....


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post #20400 of 20613 (permalink) Old 11-05-2012, 07:21 AM
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This doesn't seem to make much mechanical sense. A motor is like an air pump. Within reason, more air and more fuel -- more power. Larger valves coupled with head work should allow more air into and out of the combustion process. Can someone with experience provide a more technical response?
Yes BUT what air can your cylinder draw? You can have all the flow in the world but if the cylinder won't draw it you have a problem. Test head on flowbench, modify, add 20% flow but how about this for a thought - the stock head already had more flow than the cylinder could draw. All you are doing is making the air flow worse. Airflow on flowbench and engine are not the same. Put a 300cfm draw on your head on the test bench you flow and AIR SPEED are great, now put that on a cylinder that will only create a 150cfm draw and you've halved your air speed because the port is now too big. Its all about optimising and most people haven't got a clue how to do that. There is no guesswork in this subject if done right.

Yeah forums suck, they've all gone quiet. Probably because most people have been laid off!!

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