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post #81 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-10-2010, 12:09 PM
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Good post brokened #5 is very true. Riding street or canyons is worlds apart from a track as far as set up goes are worlds apart
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post #82 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-10-2010, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokened View Post
Some things to consider (or remember):

1. actual tire widths vary among tire brands, I believe due to variances in measuring methods. For example, a 180 in Dunlop might actually be the same width as a 190 in Bridgestone because the 'stone might be a bit narrower when measured with Dunlop's method and the 'lop might be a bit wider when measured by Bridgestones' method. I haven't seen this first hand but have heard it from "tire guys."

2. the shapes of the tires affect the overall height and the turn in nearly as much (more?) than the labeled specs. I'd been running Bridgestone BT003RS 120/70 in front and decided to try out a BT003R 120/70; there are a few different choices in the 003R and the one I tried had a significantly steeper profile than the others. That meant lots of contact patch when leaned WAY over and much less when stood up; it also meant the bike really wanted to fall into the turns.

3. It's been touched, but the width of the wheel to which the tire is mounted also plays a big role in the profile of the tire.

4. Everyone should know there are a LOT of other things that affect turn-in, including wheel/tire weight and other rotating masses and suspension geometry.

5. Some folks who like how their bike feels on the street might find that "flickability" is dangerous in scenarios encountered on the track. It's possible I'd hate the 190/55 on the track and prefer the 190/50's stability.

you are right, however i believe #5 is a preference (except for the track/street thing is fact) but i like the 55 on the track due to the confidience lvl going up knowing that i have slightly more tracktion while leaned over... good post though, very informative
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post #83 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:08 PM
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I have a +3 rear sprocket on my 04 with a stock front sprocket. Will there be any issues with fitting a 55 tire?

I plan to get 190/55's on all my bikes from now on after getting a 190/55 2CT on my RC-51. It completley improved the bikes handling and ability to quickly change direction.

It's amazing how many people I talk to that completley overlook getting good tires, a lot of people get garbage shinko's or whatever is cheap and concentrate on exhaust and power commanders. Those are the same people that can't even come close to keeping up in the corners even when I'm riding at a steady pace.

Don't get me wrong I'm into go fast mods too, but handling mods such as good suspension adjustment and quility tires are go fast mods and people don't even realize it.


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post #84 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Chillwater View Post
I have a +3 rear sprocket on my 04 with a stock front sprocket. Will there be any issues with fitting a 55 tire?
There shouldn't be any issues with the 190/55 and a sprocket change, at least none that I can think of.

Ray
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post #85 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:25 PM
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There shouldn't be any issues with the 190/55 and a sprocket change, at least none that I can think of.

Ray
ok thanks. If it doesn't work I'll put a stock rear sprocket back on and drop a tooth in the front.


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post #86 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Chillwater View Post
ok thanks. If it doesn't work I'll put a stock rear sprocket back on and drop a tooth in the front.
What specifically are you concerned about and/or trying to accomplish with the gear/tire changes? On my 2005 R1, I'm running -1 tooth in the front, with a stock rear sprocket and a 190/55 Diablo Corsa III dual compound tire in the rear.

Between the factory 5% error, the slightly taller tire and the -1 sprocket in front, I had to make approximately a 10% correction using the speedohealer. The bike (with all the mods I've done) is great on the street. The gearing change made a nice difference as far as rolling off the line and through the gears, but didn't make enough of a change to be a hassle as far as high speeds or around town, etc. The bike will lift the front tire if you get on it, even at higher speeds, but that might be due to weight reduction and the full exhaust and other modifications.

-1 in front is 45/16 = 2.8125

+3 in the rear is 48/17 = 2.823529

I think +3 in the back should be pretty nice on the street and not turn the bike into a total wheelie whore.

Ray
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post #87 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJohns View Post
What specifically are you concerned about and/or trying to accomplish with the gear/tire changes? On my 2005 R1, I'm running -1 tooth in the front, with a stock rear sprocket and a 190/55 Diablo Corsa III dual compound tire in the rear.

Between the factory 5% error, the slightly taller tire and the -1 sprocket in front, I had to make approximately a 10% correction using the speedohealer. The bike (with all the mods I've done) is great on the street. The gearing change made a nice difference as far as rolling off the line and through the gears, but didn't make enough of a change to be a hassle as far as high speeds or around town, etc. The bike will lift the front tire if you get on it, even at higher speeds, but that might be due to weight reduction and the full exhaust and other modifications.

-1 in front is 45/16 = 2.8125

+3 in the rear is 48/17 = 2.823529

I think +3 in the back should be pretty nice on the street and not turn the bike into a total wheelie whore.

Ray
I'm very happy with +3 on the rear, it works perfect for regular street riding and twisty roads. I don't want to change that setup, but I will if I have to in order to make a 55 fit.

My only concern is that I was reading how people were dropping a tooth on the front sprocket for a better fit of the 190/55.

I kind of doubt it would have problems fitting anyway but just wanted to make sure. When I put a 190/55 on my RC-51 that has -1/+2 gearing, which comes stock with a 190/50 there was still TONS of room, no issues with clearance at all.


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post #88 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chillwater View Post
I'm very happy with +3 on the rear, it works perfect for regular street riding and twisty roads. I don't want to change that setup, but I will if I have to in order to make a 55 fit.

My only concern is that I was reading how people were dropping a tooth on the front sprocket for a better fit of the 190/55.

I kind of doubt it would have problems fitting anyway but just wanted to make sure. When I put a 190/55 on my RC-51 that has -1/+2 gearing, which comes stock with a 190/50 there was still TONS of room, no issues with clearance at all.
When you mention clearance, do you mean between the front of the rear tire and the back of the swing arm? If so, then yes, it's a little closer. On my bike, my chain is stretched a bit and needs replacing. I was wondering if that might cause the tire to be even closer to the swing arm. If you increase the diameter of the rear sprocket (without changing the length of the chain also), that could have an impact. I don't know for sure, however, because I did the front sprocket, as opposed to the rear.

Have you considered doing the front sprocket as opposed to the rear?

Ray
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post #89 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayJohns View Post
When you mention clearance, do you mean between the front of the rear tire and the back of the swing arm? If so, then yes, it's a little closer. On my bike, my chain is stretched a bit and needs replacing. I was wondering if that might cause the tire to be even closer to the swing arm. If you increase the diameter of the rear sprocket (without changing the length of the chain also), that could have an impact. I don't know for sure, however, because I did the front sprocket, as opposed to the rear.

Have you considered doing the front sprocket as opposed to the rear?

Ray
Yes that is what I was talking about, the clearance between the front of the tire and the swing arm. That's the only place I see there could be an issue if there is one at all.

Since I went up 3 teeth on the rear sprocket and kept the front stock I'm thinking that will make it a little tight.

Before long I will be due for a new chain anyway so if everything doesn't look the way I want it I am just going to get a new setup with a stock # of teeth on the rear sprocket and go down one tooth on the front, then caliberate my speedohealer accordingly.

I went down one tooth on the front of my 06 gixxer1000 with the rear sprocket stock # of teeth and even though they are both different bikes the -1 front on the gix1000 feels very similar to the +3 rear on the r1. Even the max speeds I reach in each gear are very close to one another so I don't think I would be dissapointed with -1 on the r1.

Now my rc-51 on the other hand with -1/+2 is a bit rediculous. Its a ton of fun to ride
but gears like that destroyed the top end and its very noticable even if I don't go for max speed. Anyway I'm getting off topic a bit, sorry for ramblin


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Last edited by Chillwater; 08-29-2010 at 09:39 PM.
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post #90 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:14 PM
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the 190/55 profile isnt any wider then the 190/50 profile

the biggest difference is the height of the tire... not the width

hope this helps shine some light on the subject
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post #91 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe.blackr1 View Post
the 190/55 profile isnt any wider then the 190/50 profile

the biggest difference is the height of the tire... not the width

hope this helps shine some light on the subject
Good to know.

The concern here, as far as clearance, is due to the height of the tire and how it comes close to the back of the swing arm. And then changing the size of the rear sprocket could cause it to move even further towards the swing arm.

I don't know the answer as far as the clearance goes, so I'm kinda curious to see how it all plays out myself :-)

Ray
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post #92 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 10:31 PM
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i believe the total height difference is about 1/4 of an inch... shouldnt have any issues

best of luck
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post #93 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-29-2010, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by joe.blackr1 View Post
i believe the total height difference is about 1/4 of an inch... shouldnt have any issues

best of luck
joe
Sounds about right. However, when you are only dealing with about 3/4 of an inch to being with, 1/4 of an inch can start to bring the tire in pretty close. Then if you change the sprocket and have to pull the axle in closer (so the chain can get around the larger sprocket), it could reduce the clearance even further.

On my bike, I am running the 190/55 size tire; have a smaller front sprocket; and a stretched chain - and even with all that, it's still fairly close between the tire and swing arm. Not super close, but enough that when I realized I needed a new chain, it gave me pause.

It will be interesting to see if the +3 size sprocket has a material impact on the clearance.

Ray
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post #94 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 05:14 AM
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I will be fitting the 190/55 on my R1 soon, I will post up how well it fits with my +3 sprocket setup. Either way I'm going to be prepared to switch to the -1 setup if it's too close. We will see...


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post #95 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 06:16 AM
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true, but he shouldnt have to bring it so close.

@chillwater... let us know
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post #96 of 156 (permalink) Old 08-30-2010, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by joe.blackr1 View Post
true, but he shouldnt have to bring it so close.

@chillwater... let us know
Will do.


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post #97 of 156 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 06:58 AM
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I wanted to post my experience with stepping up to a 195/55/17 since I have read this forum for info in the past. Hopefully this will help someone.

I just switched to 195/55/17 Dunlop Q2s on my 2003 R1 from a set of 195/50/17 Pilot Powers (regulars ones not 2CT) that had about 5 track days and 1000 street miles on them. I never had any issues with the Pilot Powers until I started to push them hard at the track. Maybe it was in my head but I felt the Pilot Powers would squirm around when they were really hot.

I made the switch to the 55 series Dunlop Q2s to give my my liter bike some better turn in. Also because the Q2s were cheap at $235 shipped. I read this forum and spoke with the tire guy at the track. Almost all the liter bikes at the track were running the 55 series tires to give the bikes faster turn in and more contact patch when on the side of the tire. I was told it is just slightly less stable at high speeds. Tire guy set my pressure to 28 psi front and 22 psi rear (cold pressure).

I ran a full day at NJMP Thunderbolt with good results on the 55 series Q2. I did feel the bike turned in faster than before. I caught myself clipping a couple red and white curbs in the beginning of the day. The bike did not feel like it was falling into the turns as I have heard from others, just more responsive. I did not feel any other difference on the straights and under braking. I did not make any other changes. I had my suspension setup earlier this year on the 50 series tires and did not make any changes after switching tires.

YMMV.....Good luck
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post #98 of 156 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
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more than anything, a 55 profile is supposed to be an advantage over a 50 profile due to the larger contact patch when leant over.
yup


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post #99 of 156 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 02:21 PM
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I wanted to post my experience with stepping up to a 195/55/17 since I have read this forum for info in the past. Hopefully this will help someone.

I just switched to 195/55/17 Dunlop Q2s on my 2003 R1 from a set of 195/50/17 Pilot Powers (regulars ones not 2CT) that had about 5 track days and 1000 street miles on them. I never had any issues with the Pilot Powers until I started to push them hard at the track. Maybe it was in my head but I felt the Pilot Powers would squirm around when they were really hot.

I made the switch to the 55 series Dunlop Q2s to give my my liter bike some better turn in. Also because the Q2s were cheap at $235 shipped. I read this forum and spoke with the tire guy at the track. Almost all the liter bikes at the track were running the 55 series tires to give the bikes faster turn in and more contact patch when on the side of the tire. I was told it is just slightly less stable at high speeds. Tire guy set my pressure to 28 psi front and 22 psi rear (cold pressure).

I ran a full day at NJMP Thunderbolt with good results on the 55 series Q2. I did feel the bike turned in faster than before. I caught myself clipping a couple red and white curbs in the beginning of the day. The bike did not feel like it was falling into the turns as I have heard from others, just more responsive. I did not feel any other difference on the straights and under braking. I did not make any other changes. I had my suspension setup earlier this year on the 50 series tires and did not make any changes after switching tires.

YMMV.....Good luck
I don't mean to invalidate your findings, but switching brands and sizes at the same time won't tell you very much. And are you sure you're on 195, not 190?
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post #100 of 156 (permalink) Old 09-06-2010, 03:21 PM
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22lbs on a street tire is pretty low that is dunlops race tire spec generally.

as for the handling aspect I personally think it is more mental for most. You think therefore it is. I have ran 190/50 and 190/55 on the track and other then having less grip at lean I could not tell that much of a difference. I did slide on a 50 vs 55 on corsa3s

riding a bike quickly is mainly a mental game. and if you think a 190/55 makes the bike better it will be- in your mind.


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