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post #2481 of 2504 (permalink) Old 11-12-2016, 11:18 AM
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Lots of heat in the rear and cool front tyre is also a symptom of not enough weight on the front.
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post #2482 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 05:45 PM
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Ok, whats going on with my tires. These tires have 3 track days on them. The wear bars are level with the tire at some spots, do I have another track day out of them? I have a track day set up for this coming Saturday. Any and all advise is GREATLY appreciated. PSI/suspension recommendations welcome. Thanks BTW. Bike is 05 R1, Racetech gold valves in front, Ohlins rear shock. Tires: Pirelli Supercorsa V2, 31PSI front, 27 PSI rear.
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post #2483 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 06:22 PM
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3 track days sounds like you got your monies worth.


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post #2484 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoGP1199 View Post
Ok, whats going on with my tires. These tires have 3 track days on them. The wear bars are level with the tire at some spots, do I have another track day out of them? I have a track day set up for this coming Saturday. Any and all advise is GREATLY appreciated. PSI/suspension recommendations welcome. Thanks BTW. Bike is 05 R1, Racetech gold valves in front, Ohlins rear shock. Tires: Pirelli Supercorsa V2, 31PSI front, 27 PSI rear.
With tire wear like you are seeing, I would be more concerned about what the feel and feedback is like to you. For the temperatures and conditions you saw, the chassis looks to be pretty darn close to perfect.

As far as using them for another day, I would go out on those if working with novice riders on some tracks. But above that pace and I wouldn't think of it. But I know some who are a lot smoother than me that could, would, and have. Plus I don't know they would pass tech (I'd say no unless you showed me you have another set of tires standing by). But in that case, why bother? Changing tires part way through the day can suck.

Good wear. Thank your suspension guy!


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post #2485 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotoGP1199 View Post
Tires: Pirelli Supercorsa V2, 31PSI front, 27 PSI rear.
SP or SC? Do you use warmers? What was the track temp?

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3 track days sounds like you got your monies worth.


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Originally Posted by MotoGP1199 View Post
The wear bars are level with the tire at some spots, do I have another track day out of them?
I would NOT use that front for another track day. If the rear slides around on you, it's manageable, not so with the front. If it were me, I'd replace both tires. I'm assuming you're not going to the track to pussyfoot around.

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post #2486 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:01 PM
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SP or SC? Do you use warmers? What was the track temp?







I would NOT use that front for another track day. If the rear slides around on you, it's manageable, not so with the front. If it were me, I'd replace both tires. I'm assuming you're not going to the track to pussyfoot around.
ok great, thanks for the replies. I have another set of tires sitting in the garage. I don't mind swapping it out, I just didn't want to throw a set of tires out prematurely either. They are the SP V2 tires and I was using warmers at 160*. Weather was in the 60's and 70's all day.

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With tire wear like you are seeing, I would be more concerned about what the feel and feedback is like to you. For the temperatures and conditions you saw, the chassis looks to be pretty darn close to perfect.

As far as using them for another day, I would go out on those if working with novice riders on some tracks. But above that pace and I wouldn't think of it. But I know some who are a lot smoother than me that could, would, and have. Plus I don't know they would pass tech (I'd say no unless you showed me you have another set of tires standing by). But in that case, why bother? Changing tires part way through the day can suck.

Good wear. Thank your suspension guy!
I pretty much just set up the suspension using the how to guide on this site. The feedback on the bike felt great. I only slid out on the rear once when I was a little throttle happy coming out of a turn. The bike felt planted well. Your other posts on advise help me set up this bike, so I really appreciate it.
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post #2487 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 08:08 PM
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ok great, thanks for the replies. I have another set of tires sitting in the garage. I don't mind swapping it out, I just didn't want to throw a set of tires out prematurely either. They are the SP V2 tires and I was using warmers at 160*. Weather was in the 60's and 70's all day.
Got it, that looks good for street rubber. Put on the new tires, enjoy your upcoming track day

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post #2488 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Tad158 View Post
This looks most like v01d's tire....

Did he have you on it with your gear an measure sag? or just bump the forks and shocks, and say yep your ok?

So we need sag numbers.......also, how is your chain slack?

That is where I am at......thoughts?
Your theory could be sound, about too much weight on the front.
OK, he first bumped the forks and shocks, and say 'yep your ok'. But after that i asked him to check with me on bike too.
Was ok. Didn't help the wear.
The chain slack was ok.

Oh, and i lost that front and crashed. But it was my fault I left that tire wear for waay too long, I felt it was on the limit a lap or two before the crash, it was mushy and felt sliding....

But here is a question I have: Can I cause this tire wear by my improper riding, like improper sitting position or loading somehow else the front? ( I killed at least 2-3 fronts since then... I feel very stupid).
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post #2489 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 05:44 AM
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Your theory could be sound, about too much weight on the front.
OK, he first bumped the forks and shocks, and say 'yep your ok'. But after that i asked him to check with me on bike too.
Was ok. Didn't help the wear.
The chain slack was ok.

Oh, and i lost that front and crashed. But it was my fault I left that tire wear for waay too long, I felt it was on the limit a lap or two before the crash, it was mushy and felt sliding....

But here is a question I have: Can I cause this tire wear by my improper riding, like improper sitting position or loading somehow else the front? ( I killed at least 2-3 fronts since then... I feel very stupid).
Possible, but unlikely.
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post #2490 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 05:48 AM
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Hot Tear Example

Pirelli Diablo Superbike SC1 200/55 25psi hot off warmers, track temp 80ish*

This was at Roabling Road Raceway, March 18th this year. The lesson here is to make sure you're pressures match your riding style. I ride "on the rear" with the throttle a little bit too much, so a soft carcass tire (like the Ps) are going to need more psi to keep the carcass from flexing too much and tearing. This hot tear happened at Turn 9 as I got on the power chasing down some BMW's. Spun it from the point I got on the gas all the way to the outside rumbles. After that session, I didn't register that I had a hot tear due to low pressures, so I continued to ride the tire in this for for a couple sessions and the races the next day.

Check your tires guys, its not hard to tell if you have a psi or suspension issue. Tires are like books, you just have to learn how to read them.


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post #2491 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 04:37 PM
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But here is a question I have: Can I cause this tire wear by my improper riding, like improper sitting position or loading somehow else the front? ( I killed at least 2-3 fronts since then... I feel very stupid).
Sitting position, no. Setup and riding style, yes. Besides your geometry/suspension setup, you control the amount of front you're using with your right hand.

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Hot Tear Example

Pirelli Diablo Superbike SC1 200/55 25psi hot off warmers, track temp 80ish*
Hah! I have rears that look like that. Pirelli's are really sensitive for sure.

However, in this case it looks like it may be caused by your riding style. Hope you don't take this personally, I don't know how you ride at all, but looking at the tire, it looks like you get on the edge, wait for the bike to get relatively upright and then really get into the throttle.

I suspect that tire would look much better if you get on the throttle much earlier and smoother, then by the time you hit the patch that's tearing, you're no longer introducing the insane forces which are tearing up the tire.

Hope that makes sense!
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post #2492 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 05:34 PM
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Thanks for the input! I'll pay extra attention next time but I will respectfully disagree with you. I'm on the gas well before the apex when the corner requires it. You can see the "stripped" section from the edge on up. Basically I'm spinning from the apex while I'm still on the edge.

But I need a lot of suspension tuning to get more edge grip and I'm going to adjust my riding style to stand the bike up quicker while I'm getting on the gas. Either way there's a lot left in my setup for improvements!


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post #2493 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 09:02 PM
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v01d is the front of the bike lower than stock?
How many lines showing on top the fork?
When you sit on the bike does the fork move? Are you feeling the front moving smoothly when you bounce on the forks?
I don't think that is a tire pressure issue...Seems like a geometry issue
Sorry superfly999, late reply.
But anyhow, the geometry all stock, front moving good, or not unusual to me. I also checked my track bike wasn't ex-crash / insurance write off. So suspension / geometry is not damaged.
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post #2494 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-15-2017, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ///3oris View Post
Sitting position, no. Setup and riding style, yes. Besides your geometry/suspension setup, you control the amount of front you're using with your right hand.

.... but looking at the tire, it looks like you get on the edge, wait for the bike to get relatively upright and then really get into the throttle.

I suspect that tire would look much better if you get on the throttle much earlier and smoother, then by the time you hit the patch that's tearing, you're no longer introducing the insane forces which are tearing up the tire.
3oris was writing about throttle in connection with rear tire wear post by someone else.
But I just wanted to say that I was told I'm guilty of this too - when bike relatively upright or getting upright, I really get on throttle (I hope not like binary, from Off to On ...)
Could be that combination of non-optimal suspension setup and getting on throttle (really getting on) too late, can cause too much weight on front and the pattern I get ...

I have to say now, that I can do this front tire wear pattern on different bikes. I tracked on my R1 and on CBR600RR. Kinda similar front issue i get ....

(I've been also recovering from a nasty highsider caused by my 'really get on throttle' late and not smooth ...)
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post #2495 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 04:11 PM
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Thanks for the input! I'll pay extra attention next time but I will respectfully disagree with you. I'm on the gas well before the apex when the corner requires it. You can see the "stripped" section from the edge on up. Basically I'm spinning from the apex while I'm still on the edge.

But I need a lot of suspension tuning to get more edge grip and I'm going to adjust my riding style to stand the bike up quicker while I'm getting on the gas. Either way there's a lot left in my setup for improvements!
Just mounted a set of sc2 slicks to my bike....tell me all you know about them....


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post #2496 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 04:35 PM
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Just mounted a set of sc2 slicks to my bike....tell me all you know about them....
I'm assuming you did SC2 front-rear?

Those are the "hard" option. They don't like very hot track temps. The front Pirelli is amazing, so much grip that gives confidence. You know why the front starts to slide and can react in time.

The rear is pressure sensative. Pay close attention to the signs when you go out the first couple times don't be afraid to make 1 psi adjustments. The rear gets its traction by flexing and swelling the contact patch. But this means to need to run a softer than normal preload usually. If you've used Dunlop NTEC slicks or the GPA Pro that means a 2 turn reduction FOR ME....yours will be different but generally you will need to reduce preload when going from a Dunlop SLICK/GPA to the Diablo slicks.

36/25 psi front/rear psi hot off the warmer is the std pressure recommendations from Pirelli.


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post #2497 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 04:57 PM
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What does very hot mean? And how do they react? The tire guy told me when I bought them that the r1 would make better use out of the harder rear....


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post #2498 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 05:07 PM
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What does very hot mean? And how do they react? The tire guy told me when I bought them that the r1 would make better use out of the harder rear....
Very hot is 115* or higher track surface temp. That's SC0 conditions and "maybe" SC1 if your not pushing to the max.

The biggest difference between the Dunlop rear and the Pirelli is the drive when they are spun. The Dunlop will still drive after you've started spinning it. The Pirelli doesn't like to spin AND drive. They want to be pushed to the limit of traction and that's it. Once you spin the drive stops. It's very controllable you're just losing acceleration.

Hard rear on an R1 is all based around you're suspension. If you have a SBU/Graves link with the right amount of swing arm angle it's better to have a harder rear, but if not it's not going to matter. Also note that with the right link/swingarm to chain angle you'll be on a much higher rear spring so this is why the R1 "likes" a hard rear.


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post #2499 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 08:20 PM
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36/25 psi front/rear psi hot off the warmer is the std pressure recommendations from Pirelli.
Woah, that's really high front pressure. Pirelli recommends 32-36 for the Superbike slick and 30-35 for the Supercorsa SC (DOT race). I use both tires, but for the most part stick to the slicks. Everyone I know runs their fronts at ~31ish.

Pirelli recommends 26-29psi for the rears, but we go below that recommendations as well at times. I don't have my notes in front of me, but if memory serves, I've been between 24-29psi, depending on tire wear for the track/temp/pace/suspension/etc.

All numbers above are with warmers.

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post #2500 of 2504 (permalink) Old 04-16-2017, 10:41 PM
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Good background on the Pirelli Diablo Slick compounds.

Typically run the SC2 24-26psi rearand SC1 26-29psi front.

Pirelli Introduces New SC3 Compound For Its Diablo Superbike Slicks

· SUPERPOLE – Super Soft: The DIABLO™ Superbike Superpole, unlike the other tires is not for sale on the market and is used only by the riders of the Superbike World Championship to get the best starting grid position during the second session of Superpole held on the Saturday. This solution has a very soft and therefore high-performance compound with good grip, able to guarantee a practically immediate warm-up and maximum performance permitting a full lap at maximum performance after the starting lap.

· SC0 – Soft: This solution has a soft compound, ideal for tackling smooth asphalt and high temperatures. It is by far the most widely used rear solution in the MOTUL FIM Superbike World Championship. It offers maximum tread contact on smooth asphalt and maximum traction development at high temperatures as well as higher resistance to thermal performance decay.

· SC1 – Medium: This option offers a medium-hardness compound, which places it halfway between the soft and the hard solutions. It is the most popular solution when, perhaps on account of it being too cold or the asphalt being particularly abrasive, the SC0 can't be used.

· SC2 – Hard: Until last year this was the hardest solution in the range. It's used mainly in national championships, where the asphalt is hard and/or abrasive or where external temperatures are low. Thanks to its characteristics the hard compound is capable of ensuring excellent resistance to cold tearing (i.e. tearing of the rubber of the tread strip) and to wear.

· SC3 – Super Hard: This is the new entry for 2016 and the out-and-out sturdiest solution of the range. Developed above all for endurance activities it can however be used in all national championships where a compound particularly resistant both to abrasive asphalt and/or to low temperatures is needed.

There are three front compounds of the DIABLO™ Superbike but the criteria for use are not the same as those used to choose the rear compounds. In this case as well as the temperature and hardness of the asphalt, it's important to bear in mind the layout of the track, and above all the rider's driving style. Generally speaking, however, when the temperature of the track increases the compound tends to become less compact and lose rigidity, sometimes causing problems of movement when leaning. In this case it's advisable to use a harder compound such as the SC2.

On the other hand, when the track is cold, the compound tends to become more rigid and this leads to less grip with possible under-steering and decreased stability while braking. In these conditions it is better to use a soft compound such as SC1.

These are the front solutions with corresponding features and range of use:

· SC1 – Soft: Is the softest front compound developed for low outdoor temperatures and medium-severe circuits: it maximizes tread contact and the “presence” of the front tire. This is the solution preferred by riders who want a predictable tire able to let them know directly when they are about to reach the grip limit. It is generally preferred to the SC2 on circuits with significant depressions since it ensures the absorption of shock and vibrations (chattering).

· SC2 – Medium: This is the medium hardness compound, the best for high temperatures since it guarantees solidity in the tread. This is the solution that more aggressive riders opt for, with a compact tread strip as well as greater solidity, stability and precision when driving and entering curves.

· SC3 – Hard: New for 2016. Compared to the two previous solutions it certainly offers a higher mileage while remaining versatile. This could prove the best solution for the front tire on particularly demanding circuits.
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Last edited by RVCR1; 04-17-2017 at 07:19 AM.
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