Q3 bead won't seat. - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums

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post #1 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Q3 bead won't seat.

I've been working on this tire for at least 3 hrs now. The rear took 15 min from start to finish. I've lubed the bead and rim bead lip with soapy water. I've tried the rachet strap trick, tried heating it with my warmers, tried a heat gun directly on the bead, tried bouncing it. I'm completely defeated at this point. I put the stock RS10 back on to see if I was screwing something up, it went on with ease. I'm starting to think Dunlop may have had a bad run of tires because the inside diameter is noticeably smaller than the RS10 and the rim bead lip.

Anyone have any suggestions or similar experiences?

This is on my '16 R1.

Alex
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post #2 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 08:31 AM
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When all else fails, get some sort of combustible aerosol (I've used brake cleaner and ether in the past), liberally spray inside the tire, and light with a match :P

Disclaimers:

1) make sure your fingers are well clear of the bead, if they get caught when the flame ignites, you will likely lose them (not kidding)
2) explosions (even when intentional) are dangerous
3) actually, don't do this if you're not sure what you're doing


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post #3 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 10:03 AM
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email Dunlop about the issue. send them measurements from edge to edge of the inner diameter. they could tell you if its a defective one or not. and even if they cant they may send you a new one, or the money for a new one. I had to contact michelin awhile ago because i had my tire removed to change a leaking valve stem, it dry rotted from the inside lip and warped out of round when they took it off the rim. of course they didnt send a new tire since it was an old tire but they sent me half my money back to get a new one
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post #4 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Well I'm up to about 6 hours of my life wasted on this tire. I saw those videos using starting fluid and thought that's not for me
But I finally got to the point where I just said **** it, and gave it a shot. Even that didn't seat it. I tried three times with each one more explosive than the last. I'm just going to have to take it to the shop and hope they can do it.
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post #5 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 01:27 PM
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I have a Q3 front sitting in my garage. I didn't have any issues mounting it. It is pretty old and well used. I could measure the inside diameter if you would like?

I can do it at the next commercial break in this game....


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#158
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post #6 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 01:49 PM
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I measured right on 17 inches. Maybe a 1/16 less than 17"....which makes sense, as it is a 17 inch rim....

Let us know if yours measured different....


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#158
2009 Raven R1
Mods: Custom Fender Eliminator, Custom Rear Res. Bracket, Custom Clutch Sliders, Spiegler Rennsport SS F/R Brake Lines, Driven Clip-ons, Spider Peak Grips, Zero Gravity Light Smoke DB Windscreen, M4 Y-Pipe, Vance&Hines CS One cans, Shogun Sliders, Graves Stacks, F-T custom image with Bazzaz QS sensor, Galespeed VRC MC, CL Braking Pads, RaceDAC Data Logger, RaceTech Springs, F1Composites track bodywork.

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post #7 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 01:56 PM
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you may have bent the steel in the bead. if it wont seal on the rim the air you are filling it with can't force it out to the bead corner.

you'll need to try to get it to stop leaking past the part that's leaking.

I used to struggle a lot with this problem until I bought real tire mounting lubricant. call some napa autoparts stores in your area. they often sell stuff to repair shops. the one by my house sells tire mounting lube called rugylde https://www.napaonline.com/napa/en/p/BK_7651338/ I have a jar from no mar. when it runs out I will try the stuff from napa.
Tire Lube Paste 1 Pint | No-Mar Tire Changer | Cycle Hill Tire Changer | CH200 Tire Changer

Last edited by yamaharandy; 10-23-2016 at 01:59 PM.
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post #8 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 02:41 PM Thread Starter
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I was able to borrow a Q3 front with 350 miles a buddy had lying around. I couldn't get the bead to seat on it either. Like I said earlier, the RS10 seats no problem. When I say it won't seat I mean it won't even get out of the center channel of the rim on either side at one end of the wheel. The location where it won't get out of the center channel isn't just one specific spot on the wheel or tire, it is just always 180 out from where the bead seated first. And where it seats first it has no problem seating on both sides. I'm just going to take it to the shop tomorrow. If they can't get it I'll send it back and just order an RS10 front. Thanks for the help guys.

The Q3 measures 16-7/8", the RS10 16-15/16". I have a hard time believing 1/16 makes this big of a difference. The Q3 is noticeably stiffer than the RS10, I think that has more to do with it. Maybe a combination of the two. Or maybe just my inexperience changing tires (I had no issues with the rear or swapping back to the RS10 though). Either way I'm done with it.
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post #9 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 03:37 PM
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Could be....Call Dunlop....Or call the company you bought it from....


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#158
2009 Raven R1
Mods: Custom Fender Eliminator, Custom Rear Res. Bracket, Custom Clutch Sliders, Spiegler Rennsport SS F/R Brake Lines, Driven Clip-ons, Spider Peak Grips, Zero Gravity Light Smoke DB Windscreen, M4 Y-Pipe, Vance&Hines CS One cans, Shogun Sliders, Graves Stacks, F-T custom image with Bazzaz QS sensor, Galespeed VRC MC, CL Braking Pads, RaceDAC Data Logger, RaceTech Springs, F1Composites track bodywork.

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post #10 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 09:59 PM
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I got a pirelli supercorsa v2 stuck in the center of the front rim on my last tire change. It was everything I could think of to get it to work. I think I should have used a bit more lube on the rim but honestly I don't know if it would have worked. It took a combination of baking in the sun and bouncing and air pressure and finally I could get the air to seal up. It's hard to explain but I think it's the rim. I've done dozens of tires on my no mar machine but this yamaha front rim was a nightmare. I think I'll be going to a shop next time.
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-23-2016, 10:04 PM
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Just a thought do you have the valve in the stem still could restrict the pressure needed to seat the bead
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 08:12 PM Thread Starter
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I tried it with and without the valve core. Took it to the shop today and they got it done. They're not even charging me which tells me it took them 30 seconds. I'll find out what equipment/technique they used when I pick it up tomorrow.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-24-2016, 08:44 PM
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You may need what we call a cheetah at work, basically just a tank that we pressurize to a desired pressure and blast it into the tire between the rim and the tire, kinda works like the airosol trick but it creates a lot more volume of air to push the beads into place. We use it to mount semi truck tires, we fill it to 120-130 psi and slap the handle open. works every time 80 percent of the time ? I haven't had an issue with my q3s yet but they are a stiff tire to begin with
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop Job View Post
I tried it with and without the valve core. Took it to the shop today and they got it done. They're not even charging me which tells me it took them 30 seconds. I'll find out what equipment/technique they used when I pick it up tomorrow.
What kind of compressor are you using?


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#158
2009 Raven R1
Mods: Custom Fender Eliminator, Custom Rear Res. Bracket, Custom Clutch Sliders, Spiegler Rennsport SS F/R Brake Lines, Driven Clip-ons, Spider Peak Grips, Zero Gravity Light Smoke DB Windscreen, M4 Y-Pipe, Vance&Hines CS One cans, Shogun Sliders, Graves Stacks, F-T custom image with Bazzaz QS sensor, Galespeed VRC MC, CL Braking Pads, RaceDAC Data Logger, RaceTech Springs, F1Composites track bodywork.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 05:32 AM
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you need more air faster.
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 07:58 AM
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Sounds like you could have used the ratchet strap trick to seat the bead. I've never had to use it but in theory it should work.

Mark
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 08:15 AM
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Fill your ccompressor to its max, get a cheap air chuck from harbor frieght or wherever. Remove the core of of the air chuck.remove the valve core in the stem. Do the ratchet strap trick and blast all all that compressor air into the tire. Works %95 of of the time on stubborn beeds. As soon as you put the chuck on the hose the air will blast out. Wear ear plugs.
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 09:47 AM
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I have had this problem before with a q3 and a Continental and they both ended up being bent beads. Had the store i bought it from get them warrantied no problem. seems to happen a lot when the only thing protecting the tire in shipping is saran wrap..
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 10:45 AM
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Yes I have read bad things about shipping tires like that. Luckily, i have not experienced that before. I ordered a set of RS10's from @moto mummy; and they came in a big brown box!

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 10-25-2016, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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The tech at the shop told me he didn't have any problems just pulling out the valve core and hitting it with air, he didn't even lube it. He said their compressor is set to 185 psi. I didn't ask about their fitting sizes but I'm sure they're larger than the 1/4" fittings I've got. I've got my compressor set to 125 psi. I'll be upgrading my fittings to 3/8", hopefully that'll do the trick. If not, I'll start to dial up the psi. If all else fails I'll just take it to them.

The reason I'm going through all the ass pain to figure this out is I sold my track bike to buy the R1. So it now has double duty (street and track). I'm too cheap to spend $2k+ on dedicated track wheels so my plan is to swap to the slicks a few days prior, then back to the street tires after the wknd. And again, I'm too cheap to pay for tire swaps before and after each track wknd. I appreciate you guys helping me figure it out.

Alex
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