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post #41 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 02:28 PM
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post #42 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by albertg View Post
Hey everyone,

Thanks for the replies. Just to confirm, the oil used was Rotella Triple Protection 15W40 'dino'...not their synthetic oil. I was planning a switch to a quality syn (eg, Mobil 1 or other) at the next oil change (when reaching 5K).
There are a ton of threads that deal with Rotella T6 and advise you that it's the only Rotella to use. Rotella T6 with a Wix filter is all I've used for the last 8 years or so and my bike runs as strong as the day I bought it. BTW, running T6 and a Wix filter is not "cheaping out", it's taking very good care of your baby.

Mark
99 R1
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post #43 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
Hey all...I need some help/advice.
There is absolutely NO way your Purolator filter caused the problem. What's the difference between the PL (car) filters and the ML (mororcycle) filters? The bypass pressure.

When does your oil filter go into bypass? When the filter media gets so clogged oil flow gets restricted and pressure builds in the oil filter. The bypass valve opens to prevent pressure build up in the filter and to provide proper flow of oil to the engine. Ever seen an exploded oil filter? It was old/clogged and the bypass valve failed (or in the case of some subaru cars, they flow so much oil the bypass valve doesn't allow enough flow when the filter media is clogged and pressure builds even though the bypass valve is open!).

The ML line of filters have a Relief Valve release pressure of 9 to 12 PSI.
The PL line of filters have a Relief Valve release pressure of 14 to 18 PSI.

So, the big question is, did the OP's "car" oil filter cause the problem? Absolutely not. With how often he was changing his oil and filter there is absolutely NO possibility his oil filter was in bypass. And that's the only difference between the car filter and the motorcycle filter.

My vote is on the valves

I'm gonna open up the airbox on my 07 and have a look see as well!

-Jamie M.
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post #44 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by RedDevil154 View Post
Pull the air box and look at the intake valves! Open the butterfly's on the throttle bodies and shine a light on the valve stems. You will see a problem if its the valves. I would do this first. If its the valves, it's not an oil filter problems. It's a yamaha problem!
What do you look for?

2008 "Raven" - Mostly stock: -1, gutted cat, SS brake lines, flash tuned, and fast as hell
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post #45 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:25 PM
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I've ran the Purolator Pure One filters for years on my '03 R1 and '06 R6 without the first issue. Oil used has always been Mobil One 4T Bike full synthetic. Went back to the stock filter due to issues with clearance on my Vortex rearsets on the R6.





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post #46 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven1Actual View Post
What do you look for?
Uneven width of the valve stems, they should be the same thickness, not tapered.

-Jamie M.
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post #47 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toysareforboys View Post
There is absolutely NO way your Purolator filter caused the problem. What's the difference between the PL (car) filters and the ML (mororcycle) filters? The bypass pressure.

When does your oil filter go into bypass? When the filter media gets so clogged oil flow gets restricted and pressure builds in the oil filter. The bypass valve opens to prevent pressure build up in the filter and to provide proper flow of oil to the engine. Ever seen an exploded oil filter? It was old/clogged and the bypass valve failed (or in the case of some subaru cars, they flow so much oil the bypass valve doesn't allow enough flow when the filter media is clogged and pressure builds even though the bypass valve is open!).

The ML line of filters have a Relief Valve release pressure of 9 to 12 PSI.
The PL line of filters have a Relief Valve release pressure of 14 to 18 PSI.

So, the big question is, did the OP's "car" oil filter cause the problem? Absolutely not. With how often he was changing his oil and filter there is absolutely NO possibility his oil filter was in bypass. And that's the only difference between the car filter and the motorcycle filter.
Very nicely stated, I'm with you on this one.

Last edited by mhamren; 10-27-2012 at 03:45 PM.
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post #48 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toysareforboys View Post
Uneven width of the valve stems, they should be the same thickness, not tapered.

-Jamie M.
You can see that by looking down through the throttle bodies?

2008 "Raven" - Mostly stock: -1, gutted cat, SS brake lines, flash tuned, and fast as hell
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post #49 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raven1Actual View Post
You can see that by looking down through the throttle bodies?
Yes. It's not like a car that has a big intake manifold and all that jazz. It's a straight shot from the throttle body to the valves. Just open the butterfly's with your finger and shine a light down and you will see the valve stems plain as day.
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post #50 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 10:26 AM
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Here is a post from anther member.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nddowns View Post
Have you made any progress with your bike?

I tore mine apart this weekend and had a bad intake valve on the #4 cylinder. It's wasn't too hard to check if you haven't checked yours yet. Just pull the tank and air box off, look through the throttle bodies at the intake valves, and turn the crank shaft with a wrench until the valves open. You'll be able to see if the valve stem is worn. Also, feel free to PM me if you have any questions/need help.

Here's a few pictures of what mine looked like.





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post #51 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-28-2012, 07:18 PM
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I had the valve issue around 5500.



2008 R1 Black - Gold AVS C5 Levers, Puig DB Wind Screen, EvoTech Sliders Kit, T-Rex Clutch slider, Stomp Tank Pads, LeoVince Ti Factory Evo II CF end caps, Arko Y-Pipe, EvoTech Fender Elim., Proton Signals, PZRacing GearTronic Zero , Q2 tires, Flash-Tune Interface,Brembo RCS Ohlins FRT fork and TTX shock
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Last edited by IMSTuner; 10-28-2012 at 07:22 PM.
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post #52 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 01:28 PM
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Ok, I'm late to the party gents, so sorry to ask a silly question but-
I looked at my build date- 02/07- so am I pretty much guaranteed to have this problem? Haven't had it apart to check, just wanna be prepared for what awaits me.

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post #53 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMSTuner View Post
I had the valve issue around 5500.
Same here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizzle72 View Post
Ok, I'm late to the party gents, so sorry to ask a silly question but-
I looked at my build date- 02/07- so am I pretty much guaranteed to have this problem? Haven't had it apart to check, just wanna be prepared for what awaits me.
Guaranteed, no. But definitely in the zone. You should have a look.

"It is incredible, what a rider filled with irrational desire can acheive."



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post #54 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-30-2012, 12:28 PM
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Rotella and Wix baby.
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post #55 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-30-2012, 12:44 PM
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yup using Rotella T6 and KN




2008 R1 Black - Gold AVS C5 Levers, Puig DB Wind Screen, EvoTech Sliders Kit, T-Rex Clutch slider, Stomp Tank Pads, LeoVince Ti Factory Evo II CF end caps, Arko Y-Pipe, EvoTech Fender Elim., Proton Signals, PZRacing GearTronic Zero , Q2 tires, Flash-Tune Interface,Brembo RCS Ohlins FRT fork and TTX shock
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Last edited by IMSTuner; 10-30-2012 at 01:08 PM.
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post #56 of 83 (permalink) Old 10-30-2012, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedDevil154 View Post
Yes. It's not like a car that has a big intake manifold and all that jazz. It's a straight shot from the throttle body to the valves. Just open the butterfly's with your finger and shine a light down and you will see the valve stems plain as day.
Ok thanks, I need to take a look. I've got a ticking noise coming from the clutch side that got a little quieter after I changed the oil to Mobile 1 synthetic specifically for bikes. It's hard to find the T6 down here. Anyways, it's real light but regardless, it's still there...

2008 "Raven" - Mostly stock: -1, gutted cat, SS brake lines, flash tuned, and fast as hell
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post #57 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 10:12 AM Thread Starter
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Hey all,

Thanks to all for your feedback and help.

I have an update on my R1. I went to the dealer last Sat to pick-up my bike so I can have a look at the valves myself, and take the bike to an indy with some experience with these motors. I was told earlier that week that the bike was re-assembled and ready for pick-up. It was not re-assembled when I got there and I was told I’d have to wait 2 hours. Lack of communication at the dealership cost me time. Going back today to get my bike.

Spoke with the owner of the dealership last Saturday. He is a former mechanic. He said they were unable to pin-point the problem and suggested they start tearing down the bike to find it. He said they would check everything on their way down to the crank and main bearings. He said the problem was obviously not the cam-chain tensioner and said he thinks it was installed and then removed by his shop, and I will only be charged for the 3 hours of diagnostic that I initially agreed to. The dealer said the valves/valve guides look fine but couldn’t tell me anything about compression test results when I asked. The dealer said he thinks I have a light knock, high and on right side of the motor…probably not main bearings, but can’t be sure until the teardown. Worst case scenario…complete rebuild replacing all bearings/seals and new crankshaft if needed…$3,200-3,300 out the door. He said the crank is probably OK so that would save $700 for a new crank, however the original crank might need some journal work too.

Just to remind everyone…Yamaha told dealer my problem is probably a main bearing failure, probably resulting from the use of the Purolator Pure One PL (car) filter. Too many “probaby’s”…I’m not buying that yet! Too many R1/sportbike owners here and on other forums have used this filter without problems…the calci.com site recommends the Pure One PL line for bikes. Furthermore, no one, even critics of this filter, are able to produce any independent testing/comparison of the oil flow rate/pressure drop through the PL filter I used, and the OEM filter. I would love to see some real data for both filters compared side-by-side, and see flow rates/pressure drops results before and after these filters, at conditions (oil pump pressures) that replicate various RPMs in the R1 motor. Any takers?? There are also claims here and elsewhere that even Purolator recommends their ML line of filters for motorcycles. Then I read that Purolator’s ML line is actually made overseas by another company and is inferior in quality to the PL Pure One filters….and it is likely that Purolator’s warnings for PL filter use in MCs is simply a marketing ploy to prevent competition between their PL and ML filters. Right now, I tend to believe R1 owners who have used this filter without problems.

Bottom line…The dealer are nice people but I expect when push comes to shove they will ultimately back Yamaha and not me…it’s their bread n butter. Will they be honest during the re-build if they find the problem is actually a Yamaha issue/defect?..., or simply tell me “yup, it was the main bearings!” and you owe us $$$. And what about Yamaha? Would it be the first time in history a manufacturer realized they might have a problem, and then launched a damage-control campaign where Customer Service institutes various levels of push-back to frustrate owners into paying out-of-pocket for these types of issues?? Especially in this economy??!!

All good questions for which I do not yet have firm answers…

My plan: 1) Look at the valves myself and do compression tests per the advice of forum member to rule-out the valve problem. 2) Take the bike to an independent mechanic with lots of experience rebuilding these motors…let indy have a listen and tell me what they think is the problem before starting a rebuild. I know for a fact mechanics with lots of experience repairing a particular motor have learned the abnormal engine sounds representative of a specific problems, and can do a better job at pin-pointing the cause of problems during diagnosis. I don’t think the dealer is able to do this for whatever reason.

In summary,

Anyone with the oil filter testing results mentioned above??

Can anyone give me the name of an experienced indy mechanic in my area? I live about 45 minutes north of Philadelphia off of I-95.

I hope this saga helps other R1 owners. If this ends up looking like a Yamaha problem...I will have a 2008 R1 -and- a 2010 Raider S for sale...and will never speak the words Yamaha or buy a Yamaha product again...

Thanks all…

Regards
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post #58 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meister37 View Post
Wix is a decent filter, but not as good as OEM. I prefer the K&N. Wire ready!
same here !

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Blue puig windscreen, Two brothers slip ons, -1 +2 sprockets, Blue stealth rear sprocket, Blue EK chain, CNC cut R1 heel guards, Hot bodies flush mount turn signals, Blue axle blocks, Blue rear hugger, Puig chain guard, Blue R1 rims, R1 Progrips, shogun frame sliders, carbon fiber mirror block offs
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post #59 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 11:06 AM
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my 04 did the same thing. 2000 miles. spun the #1 main bearing. it was out of warranty and yamaha paid for the parts but i paid the labor. if i remember it still cost me almost 2k. it took them forever to do it 4 months. i bitched so much i got a free yamaha leather jacket. i bought the extended warranty to never use it. the bike now has 16k on it and still runs great. good luck!!!

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post #60 of 83 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
Hey all,

Thanks to all for your feedback and help.

I have an update on my R1. I went to the dealer last Sat to pick-up my bike so I can have a look at the valves myself, and take the bike to an indy with some experience with these motors. I was told earlier that week that the bike was re-assembled and ready for pick-up. It was not re-assembled when I got there and I was told I’d have to wait 2 hours. Lack of communication at the dealership cost me time. Going back today to get my bike.

Spoke with the owner of the dealership last Saturday. He is a former mechanic. He said they were unable to pin-point the problem and suggested they start tearing down the bike to find it. He said they would check everything on their way down to the crank and main bearings. He said the problem was obviously not the cam-chain tensioner and said he thinks it was installed and then removed by his shop, and I will only be charged for the 3 hours of diagnostic that I initially agreed to. The dealer said the valves/valve guides look fine but couldn’t tell me anything about compression test results when I asked. The dealer said he thinks I have a light knock, high and on right side of the motor…probably not main bearings, but can’t be sure until the teardown. Worst case scenario…complete rebuild replacing all bearings/seals and new crankshaft if needed…$3,200-3,300 out the door. He said the crank is probably OK so that would save $700 for a new crank, however the original crank might need some journal work too.

Just to remind everyone…Yamaha told dealer my problem is probably a main bearing failure, probably resulting from the use of the Purolator Pure One PL (car) filter. Too many “probaby’s”…I’m not buying that yet! Too many R1/sportbike owners here and on other forums have used this filter without problems…the calci.com site recommends the Pure One PL line for bikes. Furthermore, no one, even critics of this filter, are able to produce any independent testing/comparison of the oil flow rate/pressure drop through the PL filter I used, and the OEM filter. I would love to see some real data for both filters compared side-by-side, and see flow rates/pressure drops results before and after these filters, at conditions (oil pump pressures) that replicate various RPMs in the R1 motor. Any takers?? There are also claims here and elsewhere that even Purolator recommends their ML line of filters for motorcycles. Then I read that Purolator’s ML line is actually made overseas by another company and is inferior in quality to the PL Pure One filters….and it is likely that Purolator’s warnings for PL filter use in MCs is simply a marketing ploy to prevent competition between their PL and ML filters. Right now, I tend to believe R1 owners who have used this filter without problems.

Bottom line…The dealer are nice people but I expect when push comes to shove they will ultimately back Yamaha and not me…it’s their bread n butter. Will they be honest during the re-build if they find the problem is actually a Yamaha issue/defect?..., or simply tell me “yup, it was the main bearings!” and you owe us $$$. And what about Yamaha? Would it be the first time in history a manufacturer realized they might have a problem, and then launched a damage-control campaign where Customer Service institutes various levels of push-back to frustrate owners into paying out-of-pocket for these types of issues?? Especially in this economy??!!

All good questions for which I do not yet have firm answers…

My plan: 1) Look at the valves myself and do compression tests per the advice of forum member to rule-out the valve problem. 2) Take the bike to an independent mechanic with lots of experience rebuilding these motors…let indy have a listen and tell me what they think is the problem before starting a rebuild. I know for a fact mechanics with lots of experience repairing a particular motor have learned the abnormal engine sounds representative of a specific problems, and can do a better job at pin-pointing the cause of problems during diagnosis. I don’t think the dealer is able to do this for whatever reason.

In summary,

Anyone with the oil filter testing results mentioned above??

Can anyone give me the name of an experienced indy mechanic in my area? I live about 45 minutes north of Philadelphia off of I-95.

I hope this saga helps other R1 owners. If this ends up looking like a Yamaha problem...I will have a 2008 R1 -and- a 2010 Raider S for sale...and will never speak the words Yamaha or buy a Yamaha product again...

Thanks all…

Regards
i dont think it was the yamaha...if ur cheap oil and filter created a oil issue that is ur fault! if it is a component inside the motor u will find it..im goin thru my motor right now..people said my cct all the way to spun bearings....i did the work myself took bout 3 hrs to diagnois and found a broke cam chain guide...easy fix..$32 putting everything back together has been a pita w breaking numerous bolts in the head...but w 60K what should i expect..lol

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07 R1:
Blue puig windscreen, Two brothers slip ons, -1 +2 sprockets, Blue stealth rear sprocket, Blue EK chain, CNC cut R1 heel guards, Hot bodies flush mount turn signals, Blue axle blocks, Blue rear hugger, Puig chain guard, Blue R1 rims, R1 Progrips, shogun frame sliders, carbon fiber mirror block offs
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