Bad News Regarding my 2008 R1...engine failure - Page 4 - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums
General Motorcycle Discussions Any general discussions related to Motorcycles goes in here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #61 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 12:11 PM
I eat my R1
 
IMSTuner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MASS
Posts: 1,631
I hope everhthing works out for you.



2008 R1 Black - Gold AVS C5 Levers, Puig DB Wind Screen, EvoTech Sliders Kit, T-Rex Clutch slider, Stomp Tank Pads, LeoVince Ti Factory Evo II CF end caps, Arko Y-Pipe, EvoTech Fender Elim., Proton Signals, PZRacing GearTronic Zero , Q2 tires, Flash-Tune Interface,Brembo RCS Ohlins FRT fork and TTX shock
My Build Thread http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/10-appearance-mods/336353-ims-tuners-08-r1-build-thread.html


YouTube Page http://www.youtube.com/user/imstuner?feature=mhee
IMSTuner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 01:54 PM
My R1 eats me.
 
toysareforboys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Kanada
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
I read that Purolator’s ML line is actually made overseas by another company and is inferior in quality to the PL Pure One filters….
You received correct information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
it is likely that Purolator’s warnings for PL filter use in MCs is simply a marketing ploy to prevent competition between their PL and ML filters.
There is some debate on that, and as I posted before, the ML line of filters have a lower bypass activation pressure then their identical car PL filter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
Anyone with the oil filter testing results mentioned above??
I don't know how it works in the USA, but in Canada we have the Consumer Protection Act (similar to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act in the USA possibly?). It states that a manufacturer can not deny your repair or coverage based only on a suspected cause of damage. They must prove that the item which they are blaming for the damage, actually caused the damage.

Not bike related, but I had a steering pump explode on my almost brand new 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP compG. They blamed it on the nitrous system I installed. I told them to prove it. They initially said the insane torque steer (no argument there, lol) caused more stress on the pump (lol). I said have it tested, and prove to me that the steering pump is under more stress from torque steer than it is when I'm pulling 0.81g on the 300ft diameter skidpad.

I guess they made a few phone calls to an engineering/data capture company and found out it would be way cheaper to just fix it, rather than do the testing!

Flex your muscle. No way a "not completely dirty/plugged" PL oil filter caused ANY difference in the oil pressure or flow on your bike. I'd bet my life on it.

-Jamie M.
toysareforboys is offline  
post #63 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 02:01 PM
kickin' at the darkness
 
bacchus40's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 8,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by toysareforboys View Post

I don't know how it works in the USA, but in Canada we have the Consumer Protection Act (similar to the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act in the USA possibly?). It states that a manufacturer can not deny your repair or coverage based only on a suspected cause of damage. They must prove that the item which they are blaming for the damage, actually caused the damage.
i believe its the same thing in USA.. i was told by my Yamaha dealer mechanic that is why he could recommend ecuNleashed to me... as he was aware it would have no adverse effect on a brand new bike...

so if anything blew up... he would have to prove to yamaha it was the re-flash that caused the damage..

so yeah you have a valid point... nothing to loose with trying op..


2009 YZF-R1 xPlanker

DJ PCV, AT200 & POD300, Leo Vince EVOII SBK/ARROW SS HEADER, GRAVES STACKS & AIS, GYTR, ECUnleashed, SHORAI, YOYODYNE sc, HINSON bskt, EBC SRK, ASV clutch perch, RK520, JT 15T/44T, Lithtech chain adjust, ANNITORI RL
CLEVER WOLF CF, RIZOMA grips, APEX risers, CRG Arrows, GYTR seat, SHOGUN sliders, GBR covers, GYTR db, Watsens, 6000k HID, RACETECH springs, RACETECH G3-LD, OHLINs FPK, CL SBK5/RX3, HEL SS lines, Accossato Radial 19x18,

Last edited by bacchus40; 11-17-2012 at 02:06 PM.
bacchus40 is online now  
post #64 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 116
Picked up my R1 from the dealer today. I asked them again if they did a compression test to rule out the valve/valve guide problem. They said "No...it was not done"...no info regarding compression testing in their paperwork!

I specifically asked that they do a compression test when I initially brought the bike to them for diagnosis! I told them at the time about the valve/valve guide problem I read about on the forum.

There is clearly some lack of communication and follow-through at this dealership. Not the type of operation I want wrenching my motor if it comes to a complete rebuild.

So...still looking for a indy in my area to talk with. Any suggestions? I live approximately 45 minutes north of Philadelphia off of I-95.

r1Totzauer
....Really??....more "conjecture" about "cheap" oil and filters??!! Please enlighten us with some reproducable concrete test data or put it to rest... I did alot of web search/reading on oil and filters...Blackstone Labs...calci.com...other sources, etc. I'm no expert....but I found no contraindications at the time for the oil/filter I used for the R1...especially considering I was still in a progressive engine break-in mode with dino oil and my oil/filter changes were at very short intervals...on a bike with only 3K miles that never broke the 8-9K RPM barrier. Again....do you have some test data from an independent source to back-up your "CHEAP" claims?? I'm all ears...!!! ...and waiting... I'll be happy to pay the repairs if it was clearly the fault of the oil filter and my poor decision making...

Suggestions for an indy mechanic in my area appreciated.

Thanks all...
Regards
albertg is offline  
post #65 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 05:29 PM
blue blurrrr go zoom
 
r1Totzauer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 3,397
wasnt tryin to point a finger at the oil...just stating it....sorry for beating a dead horse..its easy enought o figure out where something went wrong...im no mech but i tore my motor down no probs and found out the problem..now to get it back together..

New member of Tpm- white

Ridin' like tomorrow isnt promised

07 R1:
Blue puig windscreen, Two brothers slip ons, -1 +2 sprockets, Blue stealth rear sprocket, Blue EK chain, CNC cut R1 heel guards, Hot bodies flush mount turn signals, Blue axle blocks, Blue rear hugger, Puig chain guard, Blue R1 rims, R1 Progrips, shogun frame sliders, carbon fiber mirror block offs
r1Totzauer is offline  
post #66 of 103 (permalink) Old 11-17-2012, 05:41 PM
I eat my R1
 
IMSTuner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: MASS
Posts: 1,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by albertg View Post
Picked up my R1 from the dealer today. I asked them again if they did a compression test to rule out the valve/valve guide problem. They said "No...it was not done"...no info regarding compression testing in their paperwork!

I specifically asked that they do a compression test when I initially brought the bike to them for diagnosis! I told them at the time about the valve/valve guide problem I read about on the forum.

There is clearly some lack of communication and follow-through at this dealership. Not the type of operation I want wrenching my motor if it comes to a complete rebuild.

So...still looking for a indy in my area to talk with. Any suggestions? I live approximately 45 minutes north of Philadelphia off of I-95.

r1Totzauer
....Really??....more "conjecture" about "cheap" oil and filters??!! Please enlighten us with some reproducable concrete test data or put it to rest... I did alot of web search/reading on oil and filters...Blackstone Labs...calci.com...other sources, etc. I'm no expert....but I found no contraindications at the time for the oil/filter I used for the R1...especially considering I was still in a progressive engine break-in mode with dino oil and my oil/filter changes were at very short intervals...on a bike with only 3K miles that never broke the 8-9K RPM barrier. Again....do you have some test data from an independent source to back-up your "CHEAP" claims?? I'm all ears...!!! ...and waiting... I'll be happy to pay the repairs if it was clearly the fault of the oil filter and my poor decision making...

Suggestions for an indy mechanic in my area appreciated.

Thanks all...
Regards
Ask for the reason for the warranty denial in writing. If they blame the oil filter then send a letter/fax to the filter manufacture. They should be able to provide you the test details for that filter. I would file a complaint with the BBB as well.



2008 R1 Black - Gold AVS C5 Levers, Puig DB Wind Screen, EvoTech Sliders Kit, T-Rex Clutch slider, Stomp Tank Pads, LeoVince Ti Factory Evo II CF end caps, Arko Y-Pipe, EvoTech Fender Elim., Proton Signals, PZRacing GearTronic Zero , Q2 tires, Flash-Tune Interface,Brembo RCS Ohlins FRT fork and TTX shock
My Build Thread http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=336353


YouTube Page http://www.youtube.com/user/imstuner?feature=mhee
IMSTuner is offline  
post #67 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 08:20 AM
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 614
Ever figure this out?

2007 Charcoal R1 - Graves 3/4 / K&N / Evotech / ASV / Shorai / SBK Flash / Driven / GYTR / Watsen / Bazzaz / Custom LED / Q3's / Rizoma / Drive Systems Superlite 520 -1 +2 / SpeedoDRD / Spiegler
jfisher is offline  
post #68 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 09:55 AM
R1, "A Superior Addiction"
 
cyclepsycho7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 11,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearheaded View Post
Honestly, you cheaped out on oil and a filter for a high performance machine and now you want Yamaha to pay for it? Sorry man. Get ready to bite a big repair bill, Yamaha shouldn't have to pay for you being cheap.

Oil is the most important part of the bike, why cheap out?
I hate to make you feel bad about your choice of filter and oil but I have to agree with the above. I don't take chances at all with the exception of using full synthetic amsoil.

Lucky 13 Squadron

cyclepsycho7 is online now  
post #69 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 10:24 AM
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Hemet,CA.
Posts: 114
Based on the symptoms you have described I would bet the house and farm your problem is a bad valve guide.This is a very common problem with the 2004-08 Yamaha R1models and in our shop we have seen a few of these issues with that model.When a local customer has brought a bike in with this type of issue we usually just buy a low mileage cylinder head off of Ebay and swap it out.I hope this helps.
Danosperf is offline  
post #70 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 11:16 AM
para bellum
 
Kangaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 36,690
Send a message via AIM to Kangaroo Send a message via Yahoo to Kangaroo
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhamren View Post
The lesson I learn from this is: No matter what choices you make regarding oil and filter, if your engine goes South, spin on an OEM filter before taking it to the dealer, and sware you used Yamalube since day one.
Warranty coverage needs documentation. In this case, you can say I'm the most anal when it comes to taking care of my bike, but what about how you ride as in wheelies and other abusive ways? It goes both ways.



Sig courtesy of SpidermanSS 9-15-09

Brothers riding on...
Bandrews 10/11
Dieyoung69 11/10
Vman1300 3/09
Gawarrior 6/08
Elviswarrior 6/07
Crazyclimbr 3/07
K_flexxx 6/06
Kangaroo is offline  
post #71 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 11:18 AM
R1, "A Superior Addiction"
 
cyclepsycho7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: NY
Posts: 11,355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danosperf View Post
Based on the symptoms you have described I would bet the house and farm your problem is a bad valve guide.This is a very common problem with the 2004-08 Yamaha R1models and in our shop we have seen a few of these issues with that model.When a local customer has brought a bike in with this type of issue we usually just buy a low mileage cylinder head off of Ebay and swap it out.I hope this helps.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 04-06 was ok with that and it started when they went back to the 4 valve design on the 07-08 with 07 being more of a problem. On this site, which I'm on a lot, I haven't seen nearly the amount of threads on the 04-06 with this problem. Of course, I could be wrong though.

Lucky 13 Squadron

cyclepsycho7 is online now  
post #72 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 12:11 PM
para bellum
 
Kangaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 36,690
Send a message via AIM to Kangaroo Send a message via Yahoo to Kangaroo
Thiught just came up that using motoman's method will have brought the issue up much earlier.



Sig courtesy of SpidermanSS 9-15-09

Brothers riding on...
Bandrews 10/11
Dieyoung69 11/10
Vman1300 3/09
Gawarrior 6/08
Elviswarrior 6/07
Crazyclimbr 3/07
K_flexxx 6/06
Kangaroo is offline  
post #73 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 12:13 PM
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danosperf View Post
Based on the symptoms you have described I would bet the house and farm your problem is a bad valve guide.This is a very common problem with the 2004-08 Yamaha R1models and in our shop we have seen a few of these issues with that model.When a local customer has brought a bike in with this type of issue we usually just buy a low mileage cylinder head off of Ebay and swap it out.I hope this helps.
What are you doing from preventing it from happening again in the future?

2007 Charcoal R1 - Graves 3/4 / K&N / Evotech / ASV / Shorai / SBK Flash / Driven / GYTR / Watsen / Bazzaz / Custom LED / Q3's / Rizoma / Drive Systems Superlite 520 -1 +2 / SpeedoDRD / Spiegler
jfisher is offline  
post #74 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 12:57 PM
My R1 eats me.
 
toysareforboys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Kanada
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfisher View Post
What are you doing from preventing it from happening again in the future?
Keeping stock of spare heads lol.

The issue is the factory valve guides are not installed/drilled straight.

The only solution is to replace the guides.

-Jamie M.

toysareforboys is offline  
post #75 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 02:12 PM
para bellum
 
Kangaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 36,690
Send a message via AIM to Kangaroo Send a message via Yahoo to Kangaroo
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclepsycho7 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the 04-06 was ok with that and it started when they went back to the 4 valve design on the 07-08 with 07 being more of a problem. On this site, which I'm on a lot, I haven't seen nearly the amount of threads on the 04-06 with this problem. Of course, I could be wrong though.
nope also for the earlier years. Run a search and you'll see dropped valves threads on here.

The only way you'll know is to drop the motor and tear it down. So in the end a full rebuild needs to happen. Better to do it before a piston punches a hole through the cases.



Sig courtesy of SpidermanSS 9-15-09

Brothers riding on...
Bandrews 10/11
Dieyoung69 11/10
Vman1300 3/09
Gawarrior 6/08
Elviswarrior 6/07
Crazyclimbr 3/07
K_flexxx 6/06
Kangaroo is offline  
post #76 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 02:18 PM
My R1 eats me.
 
toysareforboys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Whitby, Ontario, Kanada
Posts: 1,956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangaroo View Post
The only way you'll know is to drop the motor and tear it down. So in the end a full rebuild needs to happen. Better to do it before a piston punches a hole through the cases.
You can inspect the intake valve stems without pulling the motor out



-Jamie M.

toysareforboys is offline  
post #77 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 02:58 PM
para bellum
 
Kangaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 36,690
Send a message via AIM to Kangaroo Send a message via Yahoo to Kangaroo
you get that far, it's only an hour more to pull the crank and pistons.



Sig courtesy of SpidermanSS 9-15-09

Brothers riding on...
Bandrews 10/11
Dieyoung69 11/10
Vman1300 3/09
Gawarrior 6/08
Elviswarrior 6/07
Crazyclimbr 3/07
K_flexxx 6/06
Kangaroo is offline  
post #78 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 04:18 PM
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheButcher View Post
Rotella and Wix baby.
I use Wix oil filters on everything.

I used to use K & N in my cars until I started noticing some weird things. I liked them because of the grip on them. In my Lincoln LS v8 I would get low oil pressure at idle at stop lights, causing my oil light to come on. On my 94 trans am I noticed low oil pressure at idle, more then 10psi per 1000 but low enough to say "that aint right". Got rid of the K and N and both problems went away, Ive used wix in every motorcycle Ive owned from a seca 2 to my R1, I always change out any filter on a new car for a wix as well. I do not know about K&N's performance line, but what I dealt with from there other line I wont touch one. Guy I knew had an RX7 that blew up, he pulled the engine to do a v8 swap and of course sitting nice and pretty is an orange k&n oil filter.

I use rotella/delvac in all the bikes ive owned apart from the CB1000, its got mobil MX4T since 500miles.

I think its bullshit that yamaha wont cover this, I think OP has every right to say "spin a oem filter on it befor it goes in" or whatever. Yamaha should pay for every r1 that comes in with that problem because they failed to make something that would last. Having a customer pay upwards of 5000 to take the engine apart and rebuild the head is absurd. I ride a 2003 R1, I use wix and rotella...It hasnt broken. MANY people ride yamaha bikes and use oil other then yamalube and filters other then yamaha OEM and do not have issues. Why should a 2006/07 owner get put out like this just because they own a 2007 and do not use what yamaha wants them to use. When a car has a recall it doesnt matter what filter or oil is in the thing when it pulls in, they fix it because thats the right thing to do.
dblwhiteR1 is offline  
post #79 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-26-2013, 06:17 PM
Bombaclaud
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Nor-Cal
Posts: 1,456
TBH i think the shop has 50% persuasion tactics over the MFG (yamaha)

my friend had a fz1 with a cracked frame, he took it to a FEW yamaha dealers and finally found 1, 2 cities over, to get his framed replaced free of charge.

All the other dealers told him yamaha wasnt going to cover it.

I think his was a 07 or 08 and this happened in 12 when it was past his warranty.
FXCLM5 is offline  
post #80 of 103 (permalink) Old 08-28-2013, 07:14 AM
I eat my R1
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 614
Quote:
Originally Posted by toysareforboys View Post
Keeping stock of spare heads lol.

The issue is the factory valve guides are not installed/drilled straight.

The only solution is to replace the guides.

-Jamie M.
I guess I still don't understand how that is a long term fix. Maybe I don't understand exactly how the original valve guides are installed, but if the hole in the head where the valve guide is installed is not drilled correctly, you can put as many valve guides back in the head as you want, but the problem is going to keep coming back.

2007 Charcoal R1 - Graves 3/4 / K&N / Evotech / ASV / Shorai / SBK Flash / Driven / GYTR / Watsen / Bazzaz / Custom LED / Q3's / Rizoma / Drive Systems Superlite 520 -1 +2 / SpeedoDRD / Spiegler
jfisher is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome