Bad News Regarding my 2008 R1...engine failure - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums
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post #1 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Bad News Regarding my 2008 R1...engine failure

Hey all...I need some help/advice.

I brought my '08 R1 (only ~3,000 miles on bike) to the dealer about 4 weeks ago so they could check a knocking sound that I thought might be the stuck valve/valve guide problem that others have experienced with the R1. I started hearing what I assumed was louder than normal valve ticking the last 200 miles before the knocking started. I also called Yamaha Customer Service to register this issue before seeing the dealer. The dealer got back to me about 2 weeks ago and said they think the problem is the cam chain tensioner which they ordered and replaced and told me it would cost me ~$4-500 out of pocket. Yesterday, they called to say they re-assembled the bike and started it up but the knocking is still there. They spoke on the phone with a Yamaha tech rep and now they suspect I spun a main bearing on the crankshaft.

I changed oil and filter myself at 400, 800, 1,300, 2,000 and again recently at 2,9xx miles when I first noticed the knock. I have 3 bikes and only ride on weekends so I made it a point to change oil before recommended maintenance intervals and at least annually. The bike is garage kept in a dry environment and stable temperatures. I used Rotella Triple Protection 15W40 dino (API CJ-4/SM, JASO MA) and a Purolator 'Pure One' PL14612 filter at each change. This oil meets the standard specified in the owner's manual and scores highly in all used oil lab test results that I've researched.

The Yamaha rep told the dealer that the PL14612 oil filter is a "car" filter and probably caused oil-starvation leading to the engine failure and thus Yamaha won't pay for the repair. I got oil/oil filter recommendations on this forum and other sources like calci.com...others seem to be using this oil and filter for many miles without engine failures. Calci.com gave good feedback on both the Rotella and PL14612 for motorcyles.

The dealer says they have to pull/breakdown the engine for the repair and the cost can be high. I've asked the dealer to give me a best and worst case scenario for cost of parts and labor. I also asked the dealer to wait a week while I check-in with Forum members. It's hard to believe this engine should have failed at just under 3K miles with the oil changes that I did. The bike was undergoing a progressive break-in and never was over 8-9K RPMs to date. I've since read that the by-pass pressure on the PL14612 is ~14-18 PSI, and that motorcycles typically are designed for an oil filter with 8-11 PSI bypass pressure. Would that small difference in by-pass pressure have caused this type of failure? I can't imagine that the by-pass would have even come into play on a relatively clean filter with such low mileage.

So what advice can you offer me? Is Yamaha giving me the corporate run-around? Should I defend the use of the PL14612 and push harder for Yamaha Corp to pay for repairs? Also, if indeed oil starvation caused a main bearing failure, what other potential damage could have been done to the engine/tranny? The dealer drove the bike and said the tranny seems fine. Is it worth fixing if I have to pay for repairs out-of-pocket, or should I eat the loss and sell the bike for parts?

I really like the bike. I was hoping to ride it more, especially for work commutes and pleasure. I got that sick feeling in my gut...

Advice appreciated
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post #2 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 05:42 PM
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Honestly, you cheaped out on oil and a filter for a high performance machine and now you want Yamaha to pay for it? Sorry man. Get ready to bite a big repair bill, Yamaha shouldn't have to pay for you being cheap.

Oil is the most important part of the bike, why cheap out?



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post #3 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 06:15 PM
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new engine might be cheaper. look on ebay.



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post #4 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueWaffle View Post
Honestly, you cheaped out on oil and a filter for a high performance machine and now you want Yamaha to pay for it? Sorry man. Get ready to bite a big repair bill, Yamaha shouldn't have to pay for you being cheap.

Oil is the most important part of the bike, why cheap out?
Pretty much. Not all filters are created equal. Purolator are total junk.

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post #5 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 06:47 PM
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Pretty much. Not all filters are created equal. Purolator are total junk.
I agree. I know a lot of people believe in synthetic oils, but I've always used OEM factory Yamaha oil and filter.

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post #6 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 06:47 PM
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new engine might be cheaper. look on ebay.


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post #7 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 08:12 PM
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You can see if it's the excessive intake valve guide wear right in the air box down the intake tubes.



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post #8 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 08:33 PM
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I used to use golden spectro cause it was free. I use Mobil 1 4T now.

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post #9 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-26-2012, 09:30 PM
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purolator makes oil filters!?? wtf...

honestly dude.. amsoil advanced synthetic + hiflofiltro, done...
why would you fvck around with with perfection!??

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recently rode the bike after not riding her through summer, the gear box felt sticky as shite..
instantly new it. oil got old... bike not getting ridden through winter... time for oil change..

in goes AMSOIL, new filter as well.!! will do the same in spring... its so cheap.. when we're talking
about a 10k motorcycle,!!...


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Last edited by bacchus40; 10-26-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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post #10 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 06:37 AM
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I bought my bike with 9k on it May of this year and changed the oil right away with Rotella T6 synthetic and a Wix 51358 filter. On my second oil change with 17k miles. Need to change it again ASAP. Engine has been very happy. I drive mine everyday to work 70 miles round trip. Even drove this morning at a chilly 30 degrees.

I have heard that puralator says don't use their filter on motorcycles. Somebody said it has a warning on the box. They do make a motorcycle filter though but I don't have the part number.

Last edited by RedDevil154; 10-27-2012 at 06:43 AM.
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post #11 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 06:40 AM
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Wix is a decent filter, but not as good as OEM. I prefer the K&N. Wire ready!

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post #12 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 06:45 AM
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I ran K&N on my 700 grizzly with the same Rotella T6 and never had any issues with it either. I like the K&N because of the hex welded to the bottom. Make getting the filter of so much easier. Especially on grizzly with all the plastic on. Only reason I run Wix on the bike is because I can pick them up locally. Closest bike shop that carries hiflo or OEM is an hour away verses 5 minutes to get the Wix. And the bike seems to be happy with them so ill probably just keep using them. I don't really ride it hard though. Just a bunch of highway miles.

Last edited by RedDevil154; 10-27-2012 at 06:49 AM.
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post #13 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 06:55 AM
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K&N filter and Mobil 1 Racing 4T. Been using it for as long as I can remember with no issues.



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post #14 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:15 AM
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looks like op used wrong rotella.....he said he used " I used Rotella Triple Protection 15W40 dino. ...can you tell us which one you used!
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post #15 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:23 AM
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I don't understand why people cheap out...

I've seen multiple threads on people taking the cheap ways and having issues, but I've never seen a "amsoil/motul/repsol/mobile/(whatever name brand you feel like saying) blew my motor."



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post #16 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:27 AM
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When did this change into a "what oil do you use thread?"

As soon as I read "Bad News Regarding my 2008 R1...engine failure", I had a feeling...

I'm not going to claim that I'm some engine guru, but I seriously doubt that's what caused the engine problems the OP is having, especially considering the very well documented knocking/valve issues the 08's have.

OP I'd suggest getting a compression test run. If one of your cylinders is crazy low that will tell you right away that its not the damn oil or the filter, its the same valve issue so many other 07-08 owners have had. BTW if they tried to tell you it was the cam chain tensioner without doing a compression test, they just screwed you out of $400+ with no results.

Ask me how I know all of this...

If I had to guess, I'd say Yamaha is looking for a way out of paying $2000+ for the valvetrain work that is probably causing the problem, and they found it by nitpicking your oil filter. I'd say get the compression test run, and steel yourself for a fight.

Check these threads too:
http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=296718
#4 Intake Valve Guide Failure

Sorry, but if you have a sick feeling in your gut now, wait until you see all the pics of valve stems from 07-08s that look like this one:


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Last edited by MeanOne; 10-27-2012 at 07:48 AM.
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post #17 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:37 AM
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I've seen multiple threads on people taking the cheap ways and having issues, but I've never seen a "amsoil/motul/repsol/mobile/(whatever name brand you feel like saying) blew my motor."
Agreed, and I seriously doubt that's the case here. But if you were Yamaha, looking down the barrel of over $2000 worth of repairs, it would be easy to use that as a scapegoat.

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post #18 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:37 AM
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You think oil starvation wouldn't cause the valve issue?



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post #19 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:46 AM
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He said they think he spun a main. The oil I can't see being the problem. What I can see being the problem is the filter. Like I said, puralator tells you not to use their filter on a motorcycle unless its a motorcycle filter. That being said, I'd pull the air box and look at the valves. It's easy to do. I did it when I installe my BMC filter. As notorious as these engines are for valve train issues, I would not rule that out until until I saw the valves personally. If it is a main, I would saw you screwd yourself by using the puralator filters. If its valve guide/valve issue, I would fight tooth and nail to make yamaha pay for it with only 3k miles.

Last edited by RedDevil154; 10-27-2012 at 07:53 AM.
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post #20 of 103 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
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You think oil starvation wouldn't cause the valve issue?
With all the 07-08s that had the exact same valve problem, why would this ONE very low mileage bike have valve issues only because of the filter?


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He said they think he spun a main.
They also said they thought it was the cam chain tensioner. Replaced it, billed him for it, and obviously didn't fix a damn thing.

For the record, TWO shops told me it was the cam chain tensioner before my valve issue was discovered, and guess what? 15psi of compression in #3 (200-210 is within spec, I believe) and a valve that looked like a sharpened pencil.

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Last edited by MeanOne; 10-27-2012 at 07:55 AM.
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