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WTF...EPA seeks to outlaw mods of street bikes/vehicles for RaceTrack!

2K views 26 replies 15 participants last post by  GeddyT 
#1 ·
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#3 ·
WTF............ They are reaching on this one
 
#5 ·
That's Fuㄷking ridiculous... It's such a TINY TINY minority of people. And if we're being honest, the problem is going to eventually disappear on it's own when battery technology improves and electric race bikes become the norm. With the Mission RS, and Lightning 218 already having good working prototypes gas engine bikes are probably towards the end of their reign. I think within 20 years gas race bikes will become the exception rather than the norm.
 
#8 ·
Exactly. Electric has less "unsprung weight" in the engine due to only having one moving part. So even if they're heavier they feel lighter because of the better flickability. They have 100% of the torque and 100% of the horsepower at any speed. There's no powerband, or peak hp, or RPM, or gears. You want 200hp at 40mph? okay, you want 200hp at 150mph? okay. Also, electric bikes are basically zero maintenance. Just charge it and take care of the chain.

I will miss bikes like ours, but you can't stop progress for the sake of nostalgia. Electric sport bikes are the future.
 
#9 ·
True story. I do the fire alarm at the EPA headquarters in Ann Arbor. I was going in behind one of their trucks one day and it was belching smoke. (diesel) I went up to the director and pointed it out to him and said "who do I report that too?". He wasn't amused and I was asked to leave the building. FVCKING pricks and their double standards. I make sure I charge the shit out of them when I go there too.
 
#17 ·
Batteries (of all types) use a chemical reaction to produce electrical energy. No chemical reaction can continue indefinitely. I can't tell you what batteries in 2036 will use for catalysts, but I can assure you it will require replacement.

Batteries from 100 years ago had a service life, and providing electrical vehicles in 100 years are still using battery technology (regardless of what type it is), I can assure you they will also have a service life.

Highest vehicle mileage | Guinness World Records

Over 3 million miles from an internal combustion engine... Quite a few gasoline (or diesel) powered vehicles have done way over a million miles (tractor trailers are a perfect example)

Highest mileage electric cars I could find were around 290k (for a chevy volt) which technically is a victory for gas engines as well, since he has used the onboard gas generator as well, lol. Of course electric vehicles haven't been popular or available for as long, but there is lots of evidence internal combustion engines can last for a VERY long time.

I will agree electric motors are likely to overtake ICE, I'm not so sure it will happen within 20 years. Regardless of when it happens, I will be surprised if batteries are still providing the power for the motors.
 
#18 ·
Oxford electric bell. Running for 175 years. They should go back and start the new battery technology from there.
 
#19 ·
Sure, wanna know how much current that battery is providing? So does everyone else.

They assume it's using a zamboni pile, but nobody knows for sure, since they'd have to dismantle it to find out. A typical zamboni pile's current capacity is in the order of nanoamperes. (In case your knowledge of SI units is lacking, that's billionths of an amp)

For the record, your typical electric sportbike motor has a current draw of hundreds of amps. The Lightning LS-218 has a 150KW electric motor, and a 380V battery. 150,000 / 380V = ~400A.

Best of luck using that tech for high current applications :)
 
#20 ·
I didn't say USE that as a battery. I said start from there. We've been stuck on the current battery technology too long. It's time to think outside the box.
 
#21 ·
We DID start from there... these batteries aren't magic, the reason the technology wasn't developed further is because it's impractical for most applications.

Thinking outside the box isn't going back 200 years and trying to improve something that was imperfect, it's forgetting about everything that has ever been tried and doing something else.
 
#23 ·
The truth is that Elections have Consequences. In a Democracy when we don't speak, others who are happy to speak for us often don't have our interests in mind. If being free from the overbearing hand of Government is important to you, get involved-or at least show up at the polls.

We still have a functioning system of government run by, of, and for We The People. It's what you make of it.
 
#25 ·
Ah, the Luddites...

"I'll quit riding if I have to ride some pussy electric bike. They don't go far and cost a lot and you have to constantly replace expensive battery packs! It'll never make sense!"

See also: "I'll never ride a four-stroke."
See also: "Fuel injection is the work of the devil, and I'll never ride something that's fuel-injected."
See also: "Traction control and ABS!? What am I, some kind of pussy that can't ride!?"

I got my son one of those OSET electric trails bikes and modded it a bit to fit more like an enduro. It's a relatively simple, primitive, tiny thing, and yet I'm blown away by how awesome it is. Not only is it objectively better than any of the gas bikes it competes against in just about every way, but it's even insane fun for an adult to ride (funny looking, though...). And this having just a simple three pot controller, air-cooled repurposed tool motor, and lead acid batteries. It's so fun to ride that I can't wait until I can afford one that's big enough for me!

There are engineering and/or infrastructure issues still to be overcome before electric motorcycles, at least, are a mainstream option (I think the four-wheeled options are already there and hope to have one by year's end), but development is happening, and it's not going to be long. Concerns about battery pack lifespan are already nothing but FUD. Modern EV packs last well over 100K miles before seriously degrading. Meaning they'll save you something like twice their cost (at current pricing) in fuel spending over the life of the pack. Meaning the pack pays for itself and then some, even if it doesn't last as long as an ICE (although I'd challenge you to show me a modern sportbike engine that's going to last 100K miles without at least an expensive rebuild or two). Gasoline prices will return to normal and then climb some more, while economies of scale will make even current battery tech get cheaper and cheaper (hence 200+ mile cars for $37K by the end of the year). And with the pack paying for itself, the near-zero-maintenance motor is jut a bonus.

A 200 mile, 450 pound, $20K sportbike that can rapid-recharge--plus greatly improved infrastructure to facilitate the recharging--is coming, and I wouldn't bet on it taking longer than five or six years to be possible. At this point, it's not going to be about bullshit labels like being "green" or "responsible" or whatever: It's going to be THE bike to buy because it's objectively better. More torque, more direct feel, better control, and much cheaper to own.

In the meantime, I'm hoping I can keep running my modified R1 at the racetrack without the EPA coming down on me...
 
#26 · (Edited)
Ah, the Luddites...

"I'll quit riding if I have to ride some pussy electric bike. They don't go far and cost a lot and you have to constantly replace expensive battery packs! It'll never make sense!"

See also: "I'll never ride a four-stroke."
See also: "Fuel injection is the work of the devil, and I'll never ride something that's fuel-injected."
See also: "Traction control and ABS!? What am I, some kind of pussy that can't ride!?"

I got my son one of those OSET electric trails bikes and modded it a bit to fit more like an enduro. It's a relatively simple, primitive, tiny thing, and yet I'm blown away by how awesome it is. Not only is it objectively better than any of the gas bikes it competes against in just about every way, but it's even insane fun for an adult to ride (funny looking, though...). And this having just a simple three pot controller, air-cooled repurposed tool motor, and lead acid batteries. It's so fun to ride that I can't wait until I can afford one that's big enough for me!

There are engineering and/or infrastructure issues still to be overcome before electric motorcycles, at least, are a mainstream option (I think the four-wheeled options are already there and hope to have one by year's end), but development is happening, and it's not going to be long. Concerns about battery pack lifespan are already nothing but FUD. Modern EV packs last well over 100K miles before seriously degrading. Meaning they'll save you something like twice their cost (at current pricing) in fuel spending over the life of the pack. Meaning the pack pays for itself and then some, even if it doesn't last as long as an ICE (although I'd challenge you to show me a modern sportbike engine that's going to last 100K miles without at least an expensive rebuild or two). Gasoline prices will return to normal and then climb some more, while economies of scale will make even current battery tech get cheaper and cheaper (hence 200+ mile cars for $37K by the end of the year). And with the pack paying for itself, the near-zero-maintenance motor is jut a bonus.

A 200 mile, 450 pound, $20K sportbike that can rapid-recharge--plus greatly improved infrastructure to facilitate the recharging--is coming, and I wouldn't bet on it taking longer than five or six years to be possible. At this point, it's not going to be about bullshit labels like being "green" or "responsible" or whatever: It's going to be THE bike to buy because it's objectively better. More torque, more direct feel, better control, and much cheaper to own.

In the meantime, I'm hoping I can keep running my modified R1 at the racetrack without the EPA coming down on me...
The EPA needs to focus on serious offenders. Modified vehicles used off road in a closed course are the least of our worries. As for the bolded, there is a member here who has well over that on his CBR F4i. He's even done a few track days on it :lol

edit: Here ya go - http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/2-general-motorcycle-discussions/301201-200-000-mile-cbr600-f4i.html and http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/28-off-topic-talk/524241-well-ol-f4i-has-made-once-again-rolled-over-300k-2.html
 
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