Why countersteer????? - Page 51 - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums
Technique & Riding Want to kneescrape? Go faster in corners? Smoother riding? Anything about how to ride goes in here please.

 1Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1001 of 1042 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 10:29 AM
Sir Douglas
 
DouglasyzfR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 4,413
Send a message via AIM to DouglasyzfR1
Sorry, just wanted to be post 1000!

DouglasyzfR1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1002 of 1042 (permalink) Old 10-29-2012, 10:47 AM
R1 or nothin
 
BIGRED_R1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Africa
Posts: 488
1oo1

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Motorcycle.com Free App

Bones heal and chicks dig scars!!!
BIGRED_R1 is offline  
post #1003 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 05:16 PM
I eat my R1
 
cheong1106's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Singapore
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Code View Post

How long you or I have been riding is irrelevant. I'll give you an example. In your post you say that pressure on the bars turns the bike and that (Anybody knows that). We train over 5,000 riders each year around the world and you would be stunned at how many people don't know that at all and how many have heard the words but never transferred it to their riding. They really have no idea what they do to steer the bike.

Best,

Keith
Keith Code is on this forum?! Where the heck have I been?!
cheong1106 is offline  
post #1004 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-01-2012, 05:36 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheong1106 View Post
Keith Code is on this forum?! Where the heck have I been?!
Yep! Now and then. Dylan also!

ROWDY
Stonewall is offline  
post #1005 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 04:59 PM
I eat my R1
 
Bilko1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 113
Hi everyone,

I am still confused with this countersteering business.

Do you hold the pressure to lean further or press harder to lean further?
Bilko1000 is offline  
post #1006 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:04 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Hi everyone,

I am still confused with this countersteering business.

Do you hold the pressure to lean further or press harder to lean further?
Press harder to go farther hold to maintain

ROWDY
Stonewall is offline  
post #1007 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:18 PM
Moderatorasfcvk
 
KMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Huntsvegas
Posts: 44,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Hi everyone,

I am still confused with this countersteering business.

Do you hold the pressure to lean further or press harder to lean further?
You're quickly becoming a troll. Keith Code has already explained to you that if you continue to hold the pressure you will crash. If you input a small amount of pressure (press softly) you will lean over gradually. If you input a larger amount of pressure (press harder) you will lean over more quickly. If you punch the bars, the front end will wobble. At some point during the lean you will no longer be countersteering, the wheel will be turned into the turn and you will be holding it steady. If you are near max lean and try to countersteer, you will most likely crash because you will run out of contact patch........hello low side.

KMac is offline  
post #1008 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:21 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
You're quickly becoming a troll. Keith Code has already explained to you that if you continue to hold the pressure you will crash. If you input a small amount of pressure (press softly) you will lean over gradually. If you input a larger amount of pressure (press harder) you will lean over more quickly. If you punch the bars, the front end will wobble. At some point during the lean you will no longer be countersteering, the wheel will be turned into the turn and you will be holding it steady. If you are near max lean and try to countersteer, you will most likely crash because you will run out of contact patch........hello low side.
AGAIN!

ROWDY
Stonewall is offline  
post #1009 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:27 PM
I eat my R1
 
Bilko1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 113
Yes but Stonewall said the opposite to you KMAC

Press harder to go farther hold to maintain
Today 12:59 AM

If you input a small amount of pressure (press softly) you will lean over gradually. If you input a larger amount of pressure (press harder) you will lean over more quickly

Stonewall is saying press harder to lean further;

Kmac is saying press harder to lean quicker, hold pressure to lean further whereas Kmac is saying hold pressure to maintain lean angle.

Who is right?
Bilko1000 is offline  
post #1010 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 05:47 PM
Moderatorasfcvk
 
KMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Huntsvegas
Posts: 44,437
Look, for the last time, the whole process is dynamic as there's more going on than just pressing on the bars and the bike leaning over. Nothing about it is linear, or constant for very long. It's not something you think about, you just do it.....like chewing.

While people may think they are holding "constant pressure" on the bars, that's not exactly what it is. You hold pressure to lean, then when you reach the lean you need you back off the pressure, the wheel turns into the turn and you hold "Constant position" of the bars until you drive out and start to stand the bike up. There's likely even more going on than that, but that's as simple as it can be explained and get the point across. Again, you just do it, you don't think about it.

KMac is offline  
post #1011 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 06:25 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Yes but Stonewall said the opposite to you KMAC

Press harder to go farther hold to maintain
Today 12:59 AM

If you input a small amount of pressure (press softly) you will lean over gradually. If you input a larger amount of pressure (press harder) you will lean over more quickly

Stonewall is saying press harder to lean further;

Kmac is saying press harder to lean quicker, hold pressure to lean further whereas Kmac is saying hold pressure to maintain lean angle.

Who is right?
No I didn't,What you are missing I think is the term "press harder" There is resistance felt in the bars when you are trying to make a steering input! not like on your car with power steering! So what I was saying is that if you are making a sweeping right hand turn you would push the right bar forward until you achieve the line that you want in your lane, and if this curve tightens up half way around you increase the pressure on the right bar to lean it over more and tighten the radius of the turn to keep the bike in the position you want it in the lane.Now when you reach the end of the curve you start putting pressure on the left bar which stands the bike up out of it's right hand arc and straightens up in the lane again. To me the bars is like a balance beam, you apply pressure to one side decrease on the other equally.

ROWDY
Stonewall is offline  
post #1012 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 07:23 PM
You don't impress me.
 
Saphexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 553
This is hilarious.

You all mean the same thing, but because it's the internet and people understand things differently, 'yall are throwing a fit.


THEOS DRACONIS
Nobody said life was easy. Dig your claws into the bedrock, turn against the hurricane and STAND.
Saphexus is offline  
post #1013 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 07:27 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphexus View Post
This is hilarious.

You all mean the same thing, but because it's the internet and people understand things differently, 'yall are throwing a fit.

Read back a few pages! this has been going on with him for a while!

ROWDY
Stonewall is offline  
post #1014 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 07:30 PM
You don't impress me.
 
Saphexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
Read back a few pages! this has been going on with him for a while!
I've been following this for a while (because I saw Keith Code and sh*t my pants) and I think that between him and all the people on here saying the same thing in different ways mu-fuggas will eventually get the idea.

THEOS DRACONIS
Nobody said life was easy. Dig your claws into the bedrock, turn against the hurricane and STAND.
Saphexus is offline  
post #1015 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 09:09 PM
ROWDY
 
Stonewall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 11,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphexus View Post
I've been following this for a while (because I saw Keith Code and sh*t my pants) and I think that between him and all the people on here saying the same thing in different ways mu-fuggas will eventually get the idea.
I think he just gets lonesome and starts asking the same ol shit over again to see what he can stir up He says he rides a motorcycle so if that is true he is already doing what he is asking about or he would be Dead!. Or he is 10 years old and pulling our chain!

ROWDY

Last edited by Stonewall; 11-14-2012 at 09:17 PM.
Stonewall is offline  
post #1016 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 11:17 PM
I eat my R1
 
cheong1106's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Singapore
Posts: 137
I try make simple.

1) push left bar forward to lean bike left
2) when desired lean / line achieved, stop pushing bar. U can have near zero weight on handles
3) start throttling / rolling on ( depending on the turn, u can actually roll on fast / slow)

Drill
For starters, try it on long sweepers. Crack throttle open in turn and have near zero pressure on bars. Try to maintain speed thru turn. You will understand better once u do the drill once or twice.

Note, you will need to have throttle opened enough in order to maintain speed thru the turn.

This is a drill to help you feel / trust you can have zero pressure on bars while bike is leaned over provided you have good throttle control.

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Motorcycle.com Free App
cheong1106 is offline  
post #1017 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-14-2012, 11:51 PM
You don't impress me.
 
Saphexus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: So Cal
Posts: 553
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonewall View Post
I think he just gets lonesome and starts asking the same ol shit over again to see what he can stir up He says he rides a motorcycle so if that is true he is already doing what he is asking about or he would be Dead!. Or he is 10 years old and pulling our chain!
Talkin Keith or OP? I think he exists to literally PROVE that it doesn't matter how old you are, you can kick @ss on a bike with enough practice.

THEOS DRACONIS
Nobody said life was easy. Dig your claws into the bedrock, turn against the hurricane and STAND.
Saphexus is offline  
post #1018 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-15-2012, 05:05 AM
I eat my R1
 
Bilko1000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 113
Sorry guys you got me, I am only 8 years old and ride a mini moto.

Just wanted to be like Casey Stoner thats all!

Only joking,

Ok I went out yesterday and experimented some more. Yes the bike does lean more if you hold the pressure, but I find the problem I have is that my bike swerves too much to the inside of the curve when I apply my countersteer input taking me off line.

I noticed alot of track riders and moto gp riders seem to be able to get their bikes to lean over quite far without their bikes swerving towards the inside of the bend as they are leaning over, in some cases looking like they are riding straight while lent over or leaning over. Either I am not quite applying the Countersteer correctly or perhaps I am and it is natural for the bike to swerve and lean at the same time?

Maybe I am not pressing on the clip ons properly causing the bike to swerve more than lean over? I have noticed that if you press on the clip on gently the bike leans a little and then seems to go diagonally across my lane, But when going faster I still find my bike will swerve too much to the inside before being leant over far enough into the corner, making left handers difficult to deal with on uk roads because I cannot square the corner off properly to see around them.

I am sorry for the repeated posts on this, and for getting on your nerves but I know there is something in the application of the countersteer that I am getting wrong, and you guys are the best people to solve it. I am hoping someone will have had the above problem at some point and be able to say to me what you did to get over it.

I bet if I lived in America I would find left handers easier than right handers because of this swerving/leaning problem I currently have on uk roads.

Do any of you find your bikes swerving and leaning at the same time? is there a way to force the bike to lean more than swerve when applying the countersteer?

Last edited by Bilko1000; 11-15-2012 at 10:56 PM. Reason: Bad joke further thoughts
Bilko1000 is offline  
post #1019 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 07:31 AM
Moderatorasfcvk
 
KMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Huntsvegas
Posts: 44,437
You're either not going very fast at all, and don't really need much lean, or you're not maintaining any throttle once you've stopped leaning, or both. You're perilously close to dumping your bike if you persist in doing these "lean only" tests and aren't keeping proper speeds, or high enough speed to begin with, etc.

KMac is offline  
post #1020 of 1042 (permalink) Old 11-16-2012, 08:50 AM
I eat my R1
 
cheong1106's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Singapore
Posts: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post

I noticed alot of track riders and moto gp riders seem to be able to get their bikes to lean over quite far without their bikes swerving towards the inside of the bend as they are leaning over, in some cases looking like they are riding straight while lent over or leaning over. Either I am not quite applying the Countersteer correctly or perhaps I am and it is natural for the bike to swerve and lean at the same time?

Maybe I am not pressing on the clip ons properly causing the bike to swerve more than lean over? I have noticed that if you press on the clip on gently the bike leans a little and then seems to go diagonally across my lane, But when going faster I still find my bike will swerve too much to the inside before being leant over far enough into the corner, making left handers difficult to deal with on uk roads because I cannot square the corner off properly to see around them.
Turn later. You are probably applying CS correctly. But due to the flick rate being much faster. You find yourself inside the turn. How to resolve
1) Turn later
2) shorten the time you apply pressure and thus less lean.
3) increase speeds thru turn

Pls note. The idea of cornering is
1) as fast as possible
2) as little lean as possible


Sent from my GT-N7105 using Motorcycle.com Free App
cheong1106 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome