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post #21 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 06:35 AM
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Did you see Carson's Walmart thread yesterday? Fvck me that company is dirty as shit. They could afford to pay their employees more and give all of them health benefits and still be cleaning the $ clock.
Have you ever talked to a worker at Wal Mart? Commensurate with ability. Just because a company can afford to pay their janitors 1 million a year, should they have to?

Just wait, it's going to get worse.

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post #22 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 06:36 AM
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As a business owner, if I get the type of person I want that does the job I need, why should I pay more than needed?
It makes you wonder how a Nancy Pelosi and other big pro union types would handle things.

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post #23 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 06:45 AM
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Have you ever talked to a worker at Wal Mart? Commensurate with ability. Just because a company can afford to pay their janitors 1 million a year, should they have to?

Just wait, it's going to get worse.
Roger that!

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post #24 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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As a business owner, if I get the type of person I want that does the job I need, why should I pay more than needed?

Walmart employs more people than any company in this country. The majority of their workers with children live below the poverty line. And the majority of their workers with children therefore qualify for the free lunch program so this burden is shifted to the taxpayer, a form of corporate welfare for Walmart that I don't agree with. You guys bitch about people sucking off the system right?

Many of them (over 1/3) are limited to under 30 hours so Walmart doesn't have to give them benefits, convenient (also contributes to us footing the bill for these folks healthcare). If you are full time and can get medical, on average, it's twice as expensive as the norm for a company in the US but since they pay so little, well put 2 and 2 together.

Meanwhile they make billions. My point is they can afford to treat their people better in the form of benefits and pay. That doesn't mean grossly overpay them it means pay them a decent wage because they can certainly afford it. 85% of shit they sell is from outside the US and much of that is sweatshop labor so they are getting their products cheap as shit so no excuse for fvcking their employees.

If you want to subsidize them through your tax dollars so be it. I don't. IMO they need to pay their people a little more and give them benefits so they'll get off the government tit. Corporate welfare is still welfare. And when they put the area businesses out of business when they come to town, many people have no choice but to work for them.
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post #25 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Have you ever talked to a worker at Wal Mart? Commensurate with ability. Just because a company can afford to pay their janitors 1 million a year, should they have to?

Just wait, it's going to get worse.
A million? See my previous post. Don't leap off the Earth with the shit.
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post #26 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:23 AM
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Walmart employs more people than any company in this country. The majority of their workers with children live below the poverty line. And the majority of their workers with children therefore qualify for the free lunch program so this burden is shifted to the taxpayer, a form of corporate welfare for Walmart that I don't agree with. You guys bitch about people sucking off the system right?

Many of them (over 1/3) are limited to under 30 hours so Walmart doesn't have to give them benefits, convenient (also contributes to us footing the bill for these folks healthcare). If you are full time and can get medical, on average, it's twice as expensive as the norm for a company in the US but since they pay so little, well put 2 and 2 together.

Meanwhile they make billions. My point is they can afford to treat their people better in the form of benefits and pay. That doesn't mean grossly overpay them it means pay them a decent wage because they can certainly afford it. 85% of shit they sell is from outside the US and much of that is sweatshop labor so they are getting their products cheap as shit so no excuse for fvcking their employees.

If you want to subsidize them through your tax dollars so be it. I don't. IMO they need to pay their people a little more and give them benefits so they'll get off the government tit. Corporate welfare is still welfare. And when they put the area businesses out of business when they come to town, many people have no choice but to work for them.
Well, I don't agree with free lunches, free healthcare, free anything from the fed. But I also don't believe in forcing any policy on a private company. If people didn't get free lunches, free healthcare, free, etc...then maybe, just maybe they would get a different job that paid better, had healthcare, etc. Then walmart would be forced to change policies because they would not be able to get the type or quantity of workers they want and/or need. Holy shit, the free market really does work

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post #27 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:36 AM
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Walmart employs more people than any company in this country. The majority of their workers with children live below the poverty line. And the majority of their workers with children therefore qualify for the free lunch program so this burden is shifted to the taxpayer, a form of corporate welfare for Walmart that I don't agree with. You guys bitch about people sucking off the system right?

Many of them (over 1/3) are limited to under 30 hours so Walmart doesn't have to give them benefits, convenient (also contributes to us footing the bill for these folks healthcare). If you are full time and can get medical, on average, it's twice as expensive as the norm for a company in the US but since they pay so little, well put 2 and 2 together.

Meanwhile they make billions. My point is they can afford to treat their people better in the form of benefits and pay. That doesn't mean grossly overpay them it means pay them a decent wage because they can certainly afford it. 85% of shit they sell is from outside the US and much of that is sweatshop labor so they are getting their products cheap as shit so no excuse for fvcking their employees.

If you want to subsidize them through your tax dollars so be it. I don't. IMO they need to pay their people a little more and give them benefits so they'll get off the government tit. Corporate welfare is still welfare. And when they put the area businesses out of business when they come to town, many people have no choice but to work for them.
The market sets the price. Anyone willing to work can get a job. It's the ones that don't wish to that are causing the issue. WalMart is a racket, they squeeze their suppliers, their help and the communities they take over. But people flock there in droves every day to support it. If people stopped going there, maybe smaller, better paying chains will become the norm. But no, people love cheap shit.

If Wal Mart didn't have 10 people waiting in line for jobs there, they would have to pay more, but the uneducated choose to flock there for jobs as well. What specialized training does it take to get a job there? None. What necessitates the need for higher pay? Production or knowledge base. Your run of the mill shelf stock clerk doesn't have either so they get shit pay. If a person wants more money, they have to earn it. Plain and simple. Wal Mart higher ups get paid pretty well because they add value to the company.

In short, do 10 bucks an hour worth of work, get 10 bucks an hour in pay. Pretty simple really. Not everyone in America can afford a house or their own apartment. It's that simple. Live within your means.

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post #28 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:37 AM
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A million? See my previous post. Don't leap off the Earth with the shit.
It's just numbers, and you're basing wages off profit, so why not? You're not basing pay off the value of the employee.

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post #29 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:51 AM
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The market sets the price. Anyone willing to work can get a job. It's the ones that don't wish to that are causing the issue. WalMart is a racket, they squeeze their suppliers, their help and the communities they take over. But people flock there in droves every day to support it. If people stopped going there, maybe smaller, better paying chains will become the norm. But no, people love cheap shit.

If Wal Mart didn't have 10 people waiting in line for jobs there, they would have to pay more, but the uneducated choose to flock there for jobs as well. What specialized training does it take to get a job there? None. What necessitates the need for higher pay? Production or knowledge base. Your run of the mill shelf stock clerk doesn't have either so they get shit pay. If a person wants more money, they have to earn it. Plain and simple. Wal Mart higher ups get paid pretty well because they add value to the company.

In short, do 10 bucks an hour worth of work, get 10 bucks an hour in pay. Pretty simple really. Not everyone in America can afford a house or their own apartment. It's that simple. Live within your means.
Damn dude...I think you took the words out of my mouth.

If these workers are so distressed, they have the option to seek another retail job elsewhere. I worked in retail for 10 years until I graduated college. From that experience I can tell you that retail is retail. WalMart workers could go find a job at Best Buy, or Lowes, or pick any other major retailer that would treat them better.

Drjak- you are going to sit here and tell me that if you were a business owner and had the ability to buy your products cheaper and keep your overhead cheap to turn higher profits, you wouldn't do so?


IMO Unions were needed back in the 30's, but are currently getting in the way. I always cracks me up when Union people protest outside of a construction site. So Union guys are sitting here, doing nothing, to protest that a smart individual paid less for the exact same work they would provide?

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post #30 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
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Damn dude...I think you took the words out of my mouth.

If these workers are so distressed, they have the option to seek another retail job elsewhere. I worked in retail for 10 years until I graduated college. From that experience I can tell you that retail is retail. WalMart workers could go find a job at Best Buy, or Lowes, or pick any other major retailer that would treat them better.

Drjak- you are going to sit here and tell me that if you were a business owner and had the ability to buy your products cheaper and keep your overhead cheap to turn higher profits, you wouldn't do so?


IMO Unions were needed back in the 30's, but are currently getting in the way. I always cracks me up when Union people protest outside of a construction site. So Union guys are sitting here, doing nothing, to protest that a smart individual paid less for the exact same work they would provide?
I will tell you that I ran my own business, successfully for years, before the industry went belly up. And I didn't pay my guys the lowest common denominator. I paid them what I could afford (slightly above average for the positions) and when profits were up I cut them in. I had 2 guys that were there working just to get a discount. I remember the day I handed out bonuses (profit incentive) and what happened after. I no longer had folks coming in late, making excuses or whatever. Morale went up as well as sales and productivity. They told me they felt like they were part of the business instead of working for a business and took pride in their work and my wallet felt that. Go ask a Walmart employee if he or she gets cut in. They treat their people just like their products, lowest common denominator.

As far as product. I didn't use the most expensive nor the cheapest supplier. I chose the ones that I had good relationships with that were fair on price and that would work with me. We didn't use slave labor btw.

In major cities I agree, there are job options. In the smaller communities in the US, especially ones where Chinamart has come to town and put everyone else out of business, not so much.
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post #31 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:23 AM
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I will tell you that I ran my own business, successfully for years, before the industry went belly up. And I didn't pay my guys the lowest common denominator. I paid them what I could afford (slightly above average for the positions) and when profits were up I cut them in. I had 2 guys that were there working just to get a discount. I remember the day I handed out bonuses (profit incentive) and what happened after. I no longer had folks coming in late, making excuses or whatever. Morale went up as well as sales and productivity. They told me they felt like they were part of the business instead of working for a business and took pride in their work and my wallet felt that. Go ask a Walmart employee if he or she gets cut in. They treat their people just like their products, lowest common denominator.

As far as product. I didn't use the most expensive nor the cheapest supplier. I chose the ones that I had good relationships with that were fair on price and that would work with me. We didn't use slave labor btw.

In major cities I agree, there are job options. In the smaller communities in the US, especially ones where Chinamart has come to town and put everyone else out of business, not so much.
I did the same until 2008, when I had to lay everyone off. I did it because I had good people who deserved the money. Kirk has a stable workforce because he does the same. My best friend prefers the Wal Mart way. He has a few core employees and the rest are transient. He bitches about work quality, torn up equipment, tardiness, no call-no shows, Etc. If you want quality help, you pay for it. You're pretty much proving my point for me.

Your business still went out? Why?

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post #32 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:49 AM Thread Starter
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I did the same until 2008, when I had to lay everyone off. I did it because I had good people who deserved the money. Kirk has a stable workforce because he does the same. My best friend prefers the Wal Mart way. He has a few core employees and the rest are transient. He bitches about work quality, torn up equipment, tardiness, no call-no shows, Etc. If you want quality help, you pay for it. You're pretty much proving my point for me.

Your business still went out? Why?
I understand that. I'm more talking about Walmart vs. their main competitor, Costco. Notice the stark contrast:

http://www.seattlepi.com/business/ar...ey-1140722.php

I've been in both stores and prefer to shop at Costco. The employees are in a better mood and seem to be better quality employees. IMO, I think this is due to their medical benefits (over 90% are covered) and better pay as well as bonus structure. The two companies couldn't be any more different as to how they treat their employees yet Costco is expanding, making billions, etc, etc.

My business went out due to market forces. I ran my own record label and record store prior and during college. My store primarily sold vinyl and cd's to DJ's and electronic music connoisseurs, both brick and mortar, over the phone mail orders, and internet the last few years. The business changed. Late 90's/early 2000's, the majority of the DJ's started going digital only so my record sales plummeted. I still had merch sales of T shirts, bags, etc, as well as pre-sale tickets (like Ticketmaster for electronic music events) but the business started going down when these guys started downloading copyrighted content over the internet. At first there were mp3 sales for the cd turntables, but that quickly gave way to hard drives and laptops, and Serato. And like the record industry as a whole (sales are a fraction of what they used to be) everybody started stealing content. Guys would exchange hard drives and not buy anything or very little. I saw Tower records announcing their closure, Virgin as well, and saw local independent competitors close so we sold the business while we could still get some $ for it. I had wanted to sell 2 years earlier but couldn't convince my partners to do so.

These days record stores are few and far between. Even my local Best Buy's cd area dwindles every year almost down to the nothing. Digital content, itunes, etc, is the name of the game now and good luck trying to compete with it.
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post #33 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:52 AM
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I will tell you that I ran my own business, successfully for years, before the industry went belly up. And I didn't pay my guys the lowest common denominator. I paid them what I could afford (slightly above average for the positions) and when profits were up I cut them in. I had 2 guys that were there working just to get a discount. I remember the day I handed out bonuses (profit incentive) and what happened after. I no longer had folks coming in late, making excuses or whatever. Morale went up as well as sales and productivity. They told me they felt like they were part of the business instead of working for a business and took pride in their work and my wallet felt that. Go ask a Walmart employee if he or she gets cut in. They treat their people just like their products, lowest common denominator.

As far as product. I didn't use the most expensive nor the cheapest supplier. I chose the ones that I had good relationships with that were fair on price and that would work with me. We didn't use slave labor btw.

In major cities I agree, there are job options. In the smaller communities in the US, especially ones where Chinamart has come to town and put everyone else out of business, not so much.

I currently work in a small company, where monetary incentives help and having everyone feel part of a "team" makes a big difference in moral.

You are comparing apples to oranges though. Running a small privately held company is nothing like running a large traded corporation. The large corporations responsibility is to drive profits for the share holders. When presented with option A - buy a US product at a higher price, that is probably a better product, or option B- buy a Chinese product that will generate more profit; large corporations will choose more profit.

At least Walmart is still opening stores and employing people. Even if its @ 30 hours a week.

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post #34 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:54 AM
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Damn that's too bad. I hate to see a little guy go out, but that's progress. Right?

I'd love to see Walmart go out. I'd much rather see small mom and pop shops out there duking it out for the betterment of society, but that's not this countries' mentality.

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post #35 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:58 AM
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Damn that's too bad. I hate to see a little guy go out, but that's progress. Right?

I'd love to see Walmart go out. I'd much rather see small mom and pop shops out there duking it out for the betterment of society, but that's not this countries' mentality.
I made a prediction a while ago when I worked at Best Buy, and its starting to come true. Due to the nature of everyone wanting stuff as cheap as possible, Amazon and the like will end up killing big electronic stores and we will see smaller mom/pop stores open up. A lot of people forget how nice it is to see that 70" TV in real life before they buy it, or have the ability to walk into a store and get an answer to their question.

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post #36 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:59 AM
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I made a prediction a while ago when I worked at Best Buy, and its starting to come true. Due to the nature of everyone wanting stuff as cheap as possible, Amazon and the like will end up killing big electronic stores and we will see smaller mom/pop stores open up. A lot of people forget how nice it is to see that 70" TV in real life before they buy it, or have the ability to walk into a store and get an answer to their question.
It's a cycle, that's for sure.

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post #37 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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I currently work in a small company, where monetary incentives help and having everyone feel part of a "team" makes a big difference in moral.

You are comparing apples to oranges though. Running a small privately held company is nothing like running a large traded corporation. The large corporations responsibility is to drive profits for the share holders. When presented with option A - buy a US product at a higher price, that is probably a better product, or option B- buy a Chinese product that will generate more profit; large corporations will choose more profit.

At least Walmart is still opening stores and employing people. Even if its @ 30 hours a week.
I hear you but Costco deals with their employees 100% differently and they are making money hand over fist. Fvck you Walmart.
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post #38 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:03 AM
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I hear you but Costco deals with their employees 100% differently and they are making money hand over fist. Fvck you Walmart.
They need to open up more retail centers. The closest one to me is 45 minutes away with no traffic. 3 Walmarts within 15 minutes. Sucks. At least I can go to Kroger and Marsh.

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post #39 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:07 AM Thread Starter
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Damn that's too bad. I hate to see a little guy go out, but that's progress. Right?

I'd love to see Walmart go out. I'd much rather see small mom and pop shops out there duking it out for the betterment of society, but that's not this countries' mentality.
Same here. I shop independently wherever I can, especially anything to do with the house. I have even held out on buying furniture and shelving stuff for one room so I can have someone local build my chit for me. It's getting harder and harder because like you said most have a different mentality. Cheapest price only. I'd rather spend a buck or two more and support locals.

No regrets with my business. I saw the market changing before 99% out there and I'm just pissed my stupid partners took 2 years to agree. We could have made out much better. I ended up going to College and got in another field. Who knows may have to do it again one day and do something else.
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post #40 of 63 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 10:08 AM
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Walmart has stockholders that have to be considered. Whereas a privately owned company can make any decision they choose, good or bad, a Walmart can't just pay people more money because they feel they should. If they do that, it cuts their profitability and suddenly Target is neck and neck with them (performance-wise) and become more attractive to investors. Walmart is not going to jeopardize that.............ever. They can't.

Beyond that, pay isn't supposed to be based off your family situation. If all Walmart employees have 3 kids, no education, basic skills, average work ethic, etc... why is there any expectation that they should "get" something to equalize them with people who have an education, valuable skills, good work ethic?

Let's not forget that if Walmart makes more profit, they also pay more taxes, it's not just a one-sided equation where Walmart's practices only cause tax burden, they also cause tax revenue.

It boils down to what Meister already said, you can't bitch about Walmart if you're shopping there. You have a choice, and if so many people believe the "what's it going to hurt to pay a little more" theory, then clearly they aren't practicing their own beliefs because Walmart can't be that successful if everybody that claims they don't go there, doesn't go there.

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