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Let's talk about 2015 R1 suspension - Ohlins? Racers?

13K views 23 replies 12 participants last post by  Ckempf 
#1 ·
I know we have a few suspension experts on the forum, so I wanted to quickly start a thread to learn a few things.

First, what's the difference between the old FGK 100 series (I had these on my R6) and the new FGK 200-series (NIX). Many people believe the old 25mm cartridges were better (they were also more expensive). I'd like to understand the differences and know how they do in racing, etc.

I'd also like to understand the FGR TTX25 cartridges. Why are they double the price and are they effectively the "old-style" 25mm FGK's?

Next, I'm mostly familiar with Ohlins, but a few friends have suggested going to K-Tech as a better cartridge. A lot of local racers use them, but again, I don't know the differences, what I'd be paying for, etc. At least based on price, the NIX30 is in line with 25SSK and TTX25 is in line with 20DDS.

Last but not least, is it even worth just keeping the stock forks (valving) but re-springing for my weight with the K-tech springs?

Please edumacate me :)
 
#2 ·
We have just re-sprung the front with linear springs to suit our weights, and are going a lot faster than we have in the past with K-tech DDS cartridges in the forks.

The rear shock valving isn't ideal, and after changing to a WP Shock, we've got slightly faster than with the OEM, but have a lot more consistent lap times than the STD shock.

I like both K-tech and WP over ohlins, however that is because of the after sales service and on-track help that I get in my area, rather than the ohlins being a bad product.
 
#7 ·
We have just re-sprung the front with linear springs to suit our weights, and are going a lot faster than we have in the past with K-tech DDS cartridges in the forks.
Based on this thread: http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/417-...-anyone-making-fork-springs-yet-kyb-fork.html I think you're running K-techs springs, but required machining some collars? (is that still the case or are they plug'n'play?)

I don't have a problem with K-tech or even OE springs (are they linear?) that Alatalo suggested, I just don't know how that setup will compare to FGR's or even FGK cartridges. Will the valving be "up to par?"

Loved the K-Tech suspension on my '13. Cant wait to get my '16 and will have K-Tech on it again. K-Tech is more compliant imo than Ohlins, Penske etc. I don't have to adjust it much and the shit just works. The feel is great and I have zero problems cold tearing or gouging my slicks since switching to K-Tech.
I've never had issues with the 25mm FGK's on my R6 either, but I'm looking for a bit more technical substance or evidence?

FGR cartridges are not like the old style 25mm. The FGR kit is a fully pressurized and sealed gas cartridge kit. The NIX and older 25mm are not pressurized.

We've been told that the change from 25mm to 30mm design is to offer a plusher ride for the rider and that changes in OEM fork design also led to the newer style cartridge.

We're using Ohlins on our race equipment and it's been good for us. Nice tire wear and a few Expert championships.
Do you, or anyone else use an FGK cartridge for racing? If the old FGK isn't pressurized, then would it be fair to say the new FGK should be "as good" as the old style FGK or will I be disappointed?

I'm not unhappy with the stock suspension, but I notice a difference between it and the FGK I had on the R6 - I don't know enough about suspension to know whether just changing the springs will fix the problem and I'll be good to go or if I need to go FGK (or FGR?).

Thanks everyone for your responses, looking forward to many more!
 
#3 ·
Loved the K-Tech suspension on my '13. Cant wait to get my '16 and will have K-Tech on it again. K-Tech is more compliant imo than Ohlins, Penske etc. I don't have to adjust it much and the shit just works. The feel is great and I have zero problems cold tearing or gouging my slicks since switching to K-Tech.
 
#6 ·
FGR cartridges are not like the old style 25mm. The FGR kit is a fully pressurized and sealed gas cartridge kit. The NIX and older 25mm are not pressurized.

We've been told that the change from 25mm to 30mm design is to offer a plusher ride for the rider and that changes in OEM fork design also led to the newer style cartridge.

We're using Ohlins on our race equipment and it's been good for us. Nice tire wear and a few Expert championships.
 
#10 ·
First, what's the difference between the old FGK 100 series (I had these on my R6) and the new FGK 200-series (NIX). Many people believe the old 25mm cartridges were better (they were also more expensive). I'd like to understand the differences and know how they do in racing, etc.

I'd also like to understand the FGR TTX25 cartridges. Why are they double the price and are they effectively the "old-style" 25mm FGK's?
The old FGK100-series is a traditional, non-pressurized de Carbon type cartridge. A pressure building bottom valve used as compression damping adjuster, a pressure dropping main valve combined with a rebound damping adjuster and symmetrical LH and RH legs.

The more recent FGK200-series ("NIX") is basically a simplified version of the proper TTX racing forks, which means positive pressure build-up between the main valve and a solid wall instead of the pressure building / pressure dropping nature of the de Carbon damping system. Also, no symmetry as one leg is compression damping and one leg is rebound damping.

The FGR and the most recent FGRR cartridges are basically pressurized versions of the "NIX" cartridges, with couple more features and more advanced and expensive valves and adjusters. The FGR is gas pressurized and the FGRR is spring pressurized. The FGR is a bitch to work on and the FGRR is a breeze. The FGRR is identical to the damping system used in all Ohlins Moto3 front forks and some Ohlins Moto2 front forks.

I would not go as far as saying the FGK100-series is better than the FGK200-series, but I do agree they seem to work better in a wider range of conditions. Especially for streetbikers more concerned about bump absorption than ultimate contact feeling and brake response. However, if you have got the pace at the track you will for sure appreciate the added contact feeling of the FGK200-series.

If you have got the budget, the FGR and FGRR cartridges outperform both previous concepts. The bump absorption, the ease of positioning the fork and the overall agility of the FGK100-series is there. The contact feeling and the pure brake response of the FGK200-series is also there, possibly even more improved.
 
#12 ·
The old FGK100-series is a traditional, non-pressurized de Carbon type cartridge. A pressure building bottom valve used as compression damping adjuster, a pressure dropping main valve combined with a rebound damping adjuster and symmetrical LH and RH legs.

The more recent FGK200-series ("NIX") is basically a simplified version of the proper TTX racing forks, which means positive pressure build-up between the main valve and a solid wall instead of the pressure building / pressure dropping nature of the de Carbon damping system. Also, no symmetry as one leg is compression damping and one leg is rebound damping.

The FGR and the most recent FGRR cartridges are basically pressurized versions of the "NIX" cartridges, with couple more features and more advanced and expensive valves and adjusters. The FGR is gas pressurized and the FGRR is spring pressurized. The FGR is a bitch to work on and the FGRR is a breeze. The FGRR is identical to the damping system used in all Ohlins Moto3 front forks and some Ohlins Moto2 front forks.

I would not go as far as saying the FGK100-series is better than the FGK200-series, but I do agree they seem to work better in a wider range of conditions. Especially for streetbikers more concerned about bump absorption than ultimate contact feeling and brake response. However, if you have got the pace at the track you will for sure appreciate the added contact feeling of the FGK200-series.
I can't believe that I missed your post previously. Thanks for the writeup! So bottom line is if I was happy with the FGK100's I'll be happy with the FGK200's? I only ride on the track and I can push it pretty hard.

If you have got the budget, the FGR and FGRR cartridges outperform both previous concepts. The bump absorption, the ease of positioning the fork and the overall agility of the FGK100-series is there. The contact feeling and the pure brake response of the FGK200-series is also there, possibly even more improved.
Never seen/heard of FGRR, do you have a link?

By the way, I really wish there were technical/scientific articles I could read on this subject... are there any that you can recommend?

Thanks again!
 
#16 ·
The complete aftermarket front fork (using the "NIX" damping system) is available since couple of days. Ohlins part number for this front fork is FGRT 219.
 
#23 ·
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