16 R1 - Front Brake Track Prep - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums

Trackdays / Schools A place to improve your skills and discuss trackday and riding school events.

 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2017, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
Just made this great wheelie.. did you see it?!
 
zx6rocket's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 73
16 R1 - Front Brake Track Prep

Hi All,
I've read a lot of threads on the 15+ R1 front brakes and have a few questions specific to my situation I was hoping to get some feedback on.

Currently own a 16 R1 with about 9k miles worth of commuting and canyon saddle time. Sold the 600 race bike and am now taking the R1 to the track to mess around for the first time. To date my front brakes have been terrible and im wondering if there are any quick fixes i can do before i head to the track. Ive already changed the front pads to Galfer 1375HH Compound hoping they would improve initial bite and power like they did on my 600 but on this bike i felt very little improvement. At speeds above 80 MPH the bike just wants to keep going and lacks that neck snap initial bite and increasing power as you increase lever pressure. The lever takes at least 1 inch or so of travel to start biting. I also have the lever adjusted to the hardest/fastest setting it will go to. I do plan to bleed the system this weekend but confident there is no air.

I have no desire to rid the bike of the ABS system as i use it daily to commute and ABS has saved me in traffic more than once. Has anyone else tried the galfer pads with success? Could the pads be my issue even though they are fresh? Is there any pad i can slap on there to get a really hard initial bite? Reading through posts alot of people comment that just a vesrah pad change gave them more than enough bite and stopping power and im shocked to hear that with my experience after a pad change.

Any help or insight you guys can provide is appreciated. Thanks all.
zx6rocket is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2017, 11:10 PM
carbonated
 
cfaddict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Idiot Out Wandering Around
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx6rocket View Post
Hi All,
I've read a lot of threads on the 15+ R1 front brakes and have a few questions specific to my situation I was hoping to get some feedback on.

Currently own a 16 R1 with about 9k miles worth of commuting and canyon saddle time. Sold the 600 race bike and am now taking the R1 to the track to mess around for the first time. To date my front brakes have been terrible and im wondering if there are any quick fixes i can do before i head to the track. Ive already changed the front pads to Galfer 1375HH Compound hoping they would improve initial bite and power like they did on my 600 but on this bike i felt very little improvement. At speeds above 80 MPH the bike just wants to keep going and lacks that neck snap initial bite and increasing power as you increase lever pressure. The lever takes at least 1 inch or so of travel to start biting. I also have the lever adjusted to the hardest/fastest setting it will go to. I do plan to bleed the system this weekend but confident there is no air.

I have no desire to rid the bike of the ABS system as i use it daily to commute and ABS has saved me in traffic more than once. Has anyone else tried the galfer pads with success? Could the pads be my issue even though they are fresh? Is there any pad i can slap on there to get a really hard initial bite? Reading through posts alot of people comment that just a vesrah pad change gave them more than enough bite and stopping power and im shocked to hear that with my experience after a pad change.

Any help or insight you guys can provide is appreciated. Thanks all.
I cannot give you feedback but I will say I will be trying vesrah for sure on my next outing. I was scared a couple of times during my last track day due to inconsistency and fade of the stock pads w galfer rotors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
cfaddict is offline  
post #3 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-09-2017, 11:58 PM
Chillin'
 
One2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 9,546
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfaddict View Post
I cannot give you feedback but I will say I will be trying vesrah for sure on my next outing. I was scared a couple of times during my last track day due to inconsistency and fade of the stock pads w galfer rotors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk
I use the RJL on the street and they are great. Better things at said about the XX pad.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
One2 is online now  
 
post #4 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 07:26 AM
Just made this great wheelie.. did you see it?!
 
Darth_R1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
When I first got my R1 the front brakes always feels.... numb and low on stopping power.... I fixed it by just scuffing up the rotors reallllll good with some 120 grid sand papers then clean it with brake cleaner. It was good after that.

I did also have a problem at the track. My suspension was wayyyyy off for my weight. So on really hard braking and going down hill, the rear would start bouncing and sliding around. The ABS would kick it and **** everything up. I ran off the track a few time because of that. After I had the suspension guy fix me up, it was wayyyyy better and the abs never come on again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darth_R1 is offline  
post #5 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 10:43 AM
c(','c)
 
2muchbluE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,284
Garage
A different pad may help and that could be all you need to do to make ya happy. If that does not work well enough for you just upgrade the brakes one thing at a time.
Maybe try
1) upgrade the mc
2) get a steel braided abs kit (i noticed better feel with this upgrade)
3) calipers
4) brake rotor upgrade

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2017 Ambassador & Rider for Superbikeunlimited.com
Use FREE Shipping Code: 2015R1M2017 for online orders!!
**Excludes Bodywork**
2muchbluE is offline  
post #6 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 12:11 PM
Unacceptable
 
Hooli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: NorCal Bay Area
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2muchbluE View Post
1) upgrade the mc
2) get a steel braided abs kit (i noticed better feel with this upgrade)
3) calipers
4) brake rotor upgrade

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk
Quality fluid should have been #1.

OP, I'm heading to the track tomorrow. My 2016 is running RJL's and Motul RBF600. ABS system is in place. I'll let you know how things pan out.
Darth_R1 likes this.
Hooli is offline  
post #7 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 12:14 PM
c(','c)
 
2muchbluE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,284
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooli View Post
Quality fluid should have been #1.

OP, I'm heading to the track tomorrow. My 2016 is running RJL's and Motul RBF600. ABS system is in place. I'll let you know how things pan out.
Yes. That is true.

Sent from my 2PYB2 using Tapatalk


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

2017 Ambassador & Rider for Superbikeunlimited.com
Use FREE Shipping Code: 2015R1M2017 for online orders!!
**Excludes Bodywork**
2muchbluE is offline  
post #8 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 12:31 PM
z00
Just made this great wheelie.. did you see it?!
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooli View Post
Quality fluid should have been #1.

OP, I'm heading to the track tomorrow. My 2016 is running RJL's and Motul RBF600. ABS system is in place. I'll let you know how things pan out.
Keep us posted. I'll be running the same setup except with newer 660 fluid.

For those who changed their MCs. Does the Brembo MC really make a difference on 15+ R1? I upgraded my 15+ s1000RR MC's, there was a slight improvement but not worth the $240 and time spent to install IMO. My first ride on 16 R1 today. Brakes felt very weak and lacked feel and power. I ordered Vesra srjl-xx. But debating whether to get MC or not.

Last edited by z00; 06-10-2017 at 12:42 PM.
z00 is online now  
post #9 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 05:22 PM
I eat my R1
 
superfly999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 610
My biggest issue was air in the system right from day one. I have what looks like a miss aligned bleeder screw on the front caliper on the left side. Its not seating correctly and I'm not sure its ever going to seal up 100%. I'm in the process of trying to stop the leak.

But when I do get the air out it is rock hard and seems great. Haven't track tested the system without air yet....
superfly999 is online now  
post #10 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 06:21 PM
Back to the Yamaha community.
 
Roadracer86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New Bloomfield PA
Posts: 684
Garage
I switched the stock pads out after 500 miles. The stock brakes felt "wooden" lacking bite and feel. I switched to the Vesrah SRJLXX and the brakes were much better; stronger bite and much better stopping power. After about 1,500 miles I switched the fluid to Motul 600 race fluid and noticed an even firmer lever so that combination is vastly better than stock. Those Vesrah pads have a lot of metal in them so I'm sure they will tear the schit out of the stock rotors on heavy use.

Give the pads and fluid change a try; I think you'll like it. I don't like a progressive brake feel; I prefer initial bite and a strong lever and this did it for me.

I have a set of BrakeTech stainless steel rotors that I'll be switching to after a few track days on the stockers. They are a little thicker but heavier and will sustain the abuse. Hope this helps in some way.
Yautja likes this.

The older I get the slower I go.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Roadracer86 is offline  
post #11 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-10-2017, 08:52 PM
Just made this great wheelie.. did you see it?!
 
Darth_R1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by z00 View Post
Keep us posted. I'll be running the same setup except with newer 660 fluid.

For those who changed their MCs. Does the Brembo MC really make a difference on 15+ R1? I upgraded my 15+ s1000RR MC's, there was a slight improvement but not worth the $240 and time spent to install IMO. My first ride on 16 R1 today. Brakes felt very weak and lacked feel and power. I ordered Vesra srjl-xx. But debating whether to get MC or not.


+1 on the BREMBO MC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darth_R1 is offline  
post #12 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-11-2017, 11:56 AM
Unacceptable
 
Hooli's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: NorCal Bay Area
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by z00 View Post
Keep us posted. I'll be running the same setup except with newer 660 fluid.
Mid-day trackaside report lol. I've had to reset my braking markers...first time I grabbed a handful at the end of the front straight, the bike damn near kept going. Startled the hell out of me. I'll make up my mind soon if I should retain the ABS or at least cut the fronts out of the system and install a direct-line kit. One advantage to doing this mod is being able to finally use that Brembo RCS that's been kicking around my spares box.
Sammo115 likes this.
Hooli is offline  
post #13 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 08:17 AM
Track addict.
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: N. Little Rock
Posts: 46
If you are running faster than I group pace abs will only get in​ your way. You can disable/re-enable it in a few minutes by pulling the 30 amp fuse under the left rear of your seat​. I'm running top 1/4 of A group pace with stock master and calipers, Vesra pads, abs disabled, and RBF600 fluid. I think the brakes feel fine with this setup.
Prop Job is offline  
post #14 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 08:40 AM
Be good humans!
 
bfrank's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 61
Garage
I run in the middle to bottom of the A group and have stock setup with Vesrah pads (big improvement over stock). I do find that the increased lever travel towards the end of aggressive sessions. I am going to try the fluid next.

Be good humans!
bfrank is offline  
post #15 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 10:22 AM
None
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop Job View Post
If you are running faster than I group pace abs will only get in​ your way.
Curious, what are the symptoms that ABS is limiting your pace or "abs .... getting in​ your way?"
RVCR1 is online now  
post #16 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 11:12 AM
Just made this great wheelie.. did you see it?!
 
Darth_R1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 68
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVCR1 View Post
Curious, what are the symptoms that ABS is limiting your pace or "abs .... getting in​ your way?"


For me it was something with the suspension. The rear would lift and lock. So the ABS kicked in. Mostly in the downhill section.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darth_R1 is offline  
post #17 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 11:22 AM
Track addict.
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: N. Little Rock
Posts: 46
This ABS system doesn't sense front wheel slippage, it senses differences in wheel speeds between the front and rear. Once you get to the point where your braking markers are far enough in that your rear is breaking traction the ABS will activate. It will feel like you're only getting about 50-75% braking effectiveness. The first couple times it happened I thought I was going to run off. Not a comfortable feeling at triple digits speeds. I want to be the one in control of my brakes, not a computer.
Darth_R1 and TheoreticalApex like this.

Last edited by Prop Job; 06-13-2017 at 11:25 AM.
Prop Job is offline  
post #18 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 12:44 PM
None
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop Job View Post
rear is breaking traction the ABS will activate. It will feel like you're only getting about 50-75% braking effectiveness.
CCU data from track-days shows ABS kicking in and to date have not felt anything like reduced front-braking.....

Is it true that Front & Rear ABS are actually integrated or actually the front is independent and does not really react to rear?

Know all the fast guys remove ABS, but not sure what are the indications a person reaches that suggests at the point where
advisable to remove/delete/disable....

See attached example CCU/Y-TRAC data where multiple Interventions activating, including for this context Rear ABS,
thus indicative of heavy front braking to the degree rear ABS is activating. Yet, have not felt anything as yet that would indicate
front being impacted by rear ABS interventions.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Laguna_May2017-152104_Merge.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	103.2 KB
ID:	939529  
Attached Files
File Type: zip Laguna_May2017-152104.zip (1.03 MB, 6 views)
fastrob691 likes this.

Last edited by RVCR1; 06-13-2017 at 12:48 PM.
RVCR1 is online now  
post #19 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 03:06 PM
Track addict.
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: N. Little Rock
Posts: 46
That's pretty cool. I don't have a data logger and I don't touch the rear brake unless I'm off in the grass so I can't give any info on it. As you push your braking markers in eventually you will get to the point where it will activate. If you are getting fast I would suggest disabling it preemptively so it doesn't send you off roading the first time it activates.

One sidenote, the brakes should be treated as a rheostat not a switch. Smooth on, smooth off. If you are ham fisted you can get it to activate at a much slower pace. These are the guys that actually need that system.
Prop Job is offline  
post #20 of 36 (permalink) Old 06-13-2017, 03:29 PM
None
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prop Job View Post
don't touch the rear brake
Yep, the rear ABS intervention seen on the images is not from applying the rear brake,
that ABS intervention shown is from UBS triggering rear ABS as result of reasonably hard front braking.
At least that is basic understanding.....

Assume in lowest intervention levels, UBS is also adjusted proportionally, what not sure about is to the degree ABS is nearly disabled in
certain PWR, TCS, SCS, ERS configurations.
IE: If ERS is set for M-1 or M-2 then ABS is effectively disabled, but UBS may still have some intervention.

Where what you see in the image is UBS applying the rear brake to the degree ABS intervenes as result of rear being very light.
fastrob691 likes this.
RVCR1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome