Rear Sprocket TORQUE Issues (2004 R1)

:rant :fork :rant Hi guys, I own a 2004 R1, and today I received new 47T rear sprocket for my bike. So I.... I removed the wheel, removed the sprocket, put new sprocket on and hand tightened it. Then I looked up the Torque Specifications, for the rear sprocket in the 2004 Yamaha R1 Service Manual. Manual says 72LBS of torque. I have never replaced sprocket before so, I trusted the manual, although it did seem very high to me. I've set my Torque wrench to 72lbs and started torquing, I eneded up screwing up 3 bolts and nuts, so now I have 3 tightened at 50lbs, 2 that nuts started to go around and started to strip the thread, and one is pulled out completely. The thread in the hub (for the bolt) seems good. I ordered new bolts and nuts, all 6, should have it by Wednesday next week. For now it better hold.:rant Anyway, I am including a picture of the page 4-10 in service manual which clearly shows 72lbs. I later found out it should have been 28lbs. :rant :fork :rant

Yeah,I know your pain. Those bolts are made of cheese...and the error doesnt help at all. Been like that for years.

I"ll try to convince the admin. to do a sections for important stickies next winter (when I"ll have way more time on my hands to do it).

:rant :fork :rant Man, this sucks but I guess it could be worse. I will call Yamaha Canada on Monday and see if they will absorb the cost, it's not much ($46CDN Bolts, Nuts, Washers) But the least Yamaha could do is cover it, after all they screwed up right? Won't hurt to try. Thanks for the reply. :rant :fork :rant

i just drip on some thread lock and smack the wrench with a malet a few times. never had a problem yet. not to say i wont. but it's worked thus far. still sucks though man. would a bike shop get you the nuts and bolts for free since the man. says 72??? you'd think yamaha would cover a clear screw up on there part by at least giving you the parts you need at no cost.

The manual is incorrect, still.

Originally posted by Eyespy The manual is incorrect, still. i guess it's too difficult to correct that page....... :crash the best part is that they did update it to include a picture of the new style wheels, and the nstill printed it with the wrong toraue value. way to go YAMAHA!!! :2bitchsla

Just curious, but where did you find the "correct" value? I installed a new sprocket recently and had some problems with trying to torque the nuts down that far. What about the rear axle? Manual says 150nm, which seemed pretty high as well. Thanks

Anyone know the torque for the front sprocket? EDIT: Nevermind. Just found it to be 61 lb/ft.

Where did you find the real torque specs?

Originally posted by Denver05R1 Where did you find the real torque specs? :rant :fork :rant I didn't actually find real toque specs, I talked to a Tuner that tunes up Superbikes for some of the Privateer guys in Parts Canada Superbike series, and he said he sets it between 28-30lbs on 2004 R1s. By the way, I got new bolts and nuts, all 6 of each. Will replace them soon. :rant :fork :rant

Yes the manual has some issues it happened to me when I changed the clutch springs. I broke one screw trying to put with the spec torque. I had to replace the clutch boss assy. So do it yourself and tighten it until you think that it wont fall apart running :yesnod :fork :rock

I have a question, I just recently put a 1 tooth down spocket on the front, on my 2004, r1, to improve low end torque and it has tremendously, and my speeo is out of calibration when I am running beside someone doing 70 my speedo reads 85 approx anything I can to recalibrate it or what? thanks.........

www.speedohealer.com @$90.00

Originally posted by Leanit I have a question, I just recently put a 1 tooth down spocket on the front, on my 2004, r1, to improve low end torque and it has tremendously, and my speeo is out of calibration when I am running beside someone doing 70 my speedo reads 85 approx anything I can to recalibrate it or what? thanks......... Hello welcome to the forum,did a search for ya~http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=1051469&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending Are you by chance from southern al.?

Originally posted by sharknose Hello welcome to the forum,did a search for ya~http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=1051469&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending Are you by chance from southern al.? No I am in east central...............talladega county

Originally posted by R1Budha i guess it's too difficult to correct that page....... :crash the best part is that they did update it to include a picture of the new style wheels, and the nstill printed it with the wrong toraue value. way to go YAMAHA!!! :2bitchsla I guess doing a manual recall is to much for them to consider.

If in doubt check the general torque spec section in the front of the manual.:yesnod

I've been wrenching on bikes about 20 yrs now and I hardly ever torque anything down. Unless it is a cylinder head or something that may cause warping I just use a the german method, goodntight! Never had anything work loose on me yet.

I just tighten everything by hand too. When I did my sprockets, I just tightened the front really tight until I got a flat side of the nut to line up with metal tab you have to bend down. When I did the rear, I just tightened them like lug nuts with the cross pattern and did it little by little to get them evenly tightened. I tightened the rear axel to the torque specs once, and it just seemed ridiculously tight, and I would like to be able to get the axel off with the tools in the kit and not need a breaker bar, so now I just tighten it as good as I can with the wrech in the tool kit, because if I got it on with that wrench, I should be able to get it off with it too.

When will you engineering type learn that some things arent that serious ITS ONLY A SPROCKET i repeat ITS ONLY A SPROCKET My racin partna is always houndin me about torque specs and hes in the pits at the track constantly and im gonna tell you like i tell him IM NOT TRYIN TO HEAR THAT BULL ZIP (no offense) Next time just tighten the bolts up and leave the manual for more important things like cam sprocket alignment.

The 98-01 torque looks correct, 50 ft. lbs, so is it just the 02-04 torque that is wrong?

28-30 lbs of torque at what rpm? 13500 rpms?? My biggest issue with this bike is the torque on the bottom in first gear. It's the way it's geared, designed to run WOT on a track. Instead of sprockets I was thinking HD clutch/slipper clutch, racing clutch lever, maybe NOS. Right now I have slipon exhaust, power commander, air filter and keep it juiced with racing octane boost.

Originally posted by eros 28-30 lbs of torque at what rpm? 13500 rpms?? My biggest issue with this bike is the torque on the bottom in first gear. It's the way it's geared, designed to run WOT on a track. Instead of sprockets I was thinking HD clutch/slipper clutch, racing clutch lever, maybe NOS. Right now I have slipon exhaust, power commander, air filter and keep it juiced with racing octane boost. Are you joking???:confused:

Originally posted by eros 28-30 lbs of torque at what rpm? 13500 rpms?? My biggest issue with this bike is the torque on the bottom in first gear. It's the way it's geared, designed to run WOT on a track. Instead of sprockets I was thinking HD clutch/slipper clutch, racing clutch lever, maybe NOS. Right now I have slipon exhaust, power commander, air filter and keep it juiced with racing octane boost. WTF?

sorry to read You had this problem with the bold and nuts, I think Yamaha should give You the broken parts for free. But I saw You installed a 47T sprocket instead of the standard 45T...why? More power and bigger acceleration? Doesn't youre bike get very light at the front wheel? My 06 R1 feels pretty light in the front with only 45T on the back sprocket.

Originally posted by wannaberossi sorry to read You had this problem with the bold and nuts, I think Yamaha should give You the broken parts for free. But I saw You installed a 47T sprocket instead of the standard 45T...why? More power and bigger acceleration? Doesn't youre bike get very light at the front wheel? My 06 R1 feels pretty light in the front with only 45T on the back sprocket. As you get used to your new bike you will find it easier to control the power and you will also find that the front end will get light less often and only when you want it to. Not saying that it will get slower you will just learn how to ride it so that it wont do that. Then you will be looking for more power and the quickest way to do that is gearing. Enjoy your 06':thumbup .

guys seriously its a sproket with nutts and bolts we are talking about here, who cares about torque figures and sh*t, just tighten it up like everything else, what diff does it make. We are not in moto GP. I take my wheel off and sproket off and so forth, and just put it back in reverse order, all good.

Originally posted by eros 28-30 lbs of torque at what rpm? 13500 rpms?? My biggest issue with this bike is the torque on the bottom in first gear. It's the way it's geared, designed to run WOT on a track. Instead of sprockets I was thinking HD clutch/slipper clutch, racing clutch lever, maybe NOS. Right now I have slipon exhaust, power commander, air filter and keep it juiced with racing octane boost. HAHAHA!!!! what a crack up. thats funny.

No I'm not joking. Why are you all cracked up, son. Look at you... Snap out it, For real!!!! This bike is known for lack of torque (and hp) on the bottom, where you need it. Where you been, stupid?? The answer is beefing up the clutch and gettin more hp to the real wheel... I could easily do burnouts on my v-twin bikes. I'm not doin it anymore with the R1 cus I don't feel like replacing the clutch, AGAIN. Questions??

Originally posted by eros No I'm not joking. Why are you all cracked up, son. Look at you... Snap out it, For real!!!! This bike is known for lack of torque (and hp) on the bottom, where you need it. Where you been, stupid?? The answer is beefing up the clutch and gettin more hp to the real wheel... I could easily do burnouts on my v-twin bikes. I'm not doin it anymore with the R1 cus I don't feel like replacing the clutch, AGAIN. Questions?? The reason everyone is poking fun at your post is because it has nothing to do with the thread subject. The thread was a started regarding the amount of torque you should use to install the rear sprocket to the hub. Meaning nuts and bolts, torque wrench, etc. Your post was refering to the torque of the engine at the rear sprocket. What made it even funnier was that you quoted the 20-30 ft/lbs of torque as if it were engine output at 13500 RPM. Which if you check is way off of what it actually is.:crash

oh is that what everyone was laughing about, doh :confused:

OK, whatever, I'm NOT the sharpest knife in the drawer. Butt I still have issues with this bike since I bought it. I like it but she doesn't pull hard enough for me. Maybe I need to change the sprockets. Then I'll have torque on the bolts problem and stripped threads. Give me another beer. I'll get her right.

And I thought I was the most technically challenged member of the forum :2bitchsla

You Are!

:rant :fork :rant HA HA HA !!!:D This is great, just great, I love this Forum, you find out all you need plus get some humor. :rock :rant :fork :rant

Hey all, Torque = NFD N= nut factor, use .2 for a new bolt. F is the force stretching the bolt. D is the diameter of the bolt. So we can calculate the appropriate torque if we assume a yield strength for the material. I'd say that the material is probably at least 75 ksi yield strength, probably 100ksi. So we'll try to torque it to about 1/2 that or 40 ksi. We need the area at the root of the thread. I dont know what size the bolts are but here is a reference for area at root of thread that I just googled: http://www.bigcee.com/reference.html So the F you want is F= 40,000 psi * Area at root of thread. Calculate that, substitute it into the formula above (make sure you convert the D to feet if you want the answer in Ft lbs) and you'll have the appropriate torque for this bolt. If you need any help feel free to PM me. Unlike some posters on this thread, when failure can be life threatening, I will take the time to use a torque wrench. I've been wrenching for 40 years and could probably get it very close w/o a torque wrench but I'm not taking chances. BTW, I do this engineering stuff for a living, JL Stephenson, PE. Not technically challenged.

Originally posted by SPZ510 As you get used to your new bike you will find it easier to control the power and you will also find that the front end will get light less often and only when you want it to. Not saying that it will get slower you will just learn how to ride it so that it wont do that. Then you will be looking for more power and the quickest way to do that is gearing. Enjoy your 06':thumbup . You are right...afther only a little while got used to the power and now I have even mounted a 16 teeth front sprocket istead off the original 17 teeth sprocket. I must say it's a big plus....only my speedy doesn't work accurate anymore. Maybe i will install a speedo healer now. greetings wannaberossi

For anyone interested,here is a torque table that will help you with all your torque questions 283387

BMW, Mercedes , Goodntight, Hey you can,t beat those germans!

Entertaining thread. Although I don't worry too much about exact torque values, if you do have a torque wrench- use it. Better to be safe than sorry. And it isn't always about something falling off, but rather damage to the equipment that is being fastened together.

hey guys i am putting a stealth sproket on the rear and vortex front to gain some low end power and i was curious about the torgue specs and I just wanted to say you guys have been a huge help...

I am glad I saw this. Changing my sprockets and just purchased a dyno wrench but it seems will end up tightening by hand that's stupid. Do they (Yamaha) updated the specs in the 06 manual. I have 06 bike but use 04 manual... In general tightening specs they give M10 - 30 Nm and for rear sprocket which is M10 - 100 Nm. ohhhh boy and did someone find the right torque values ???

let us know how the sprocket change feels please! how come you didn't change the front instead?

I am changing the front too I have the sprockets but no chain still waiting for it will be here in couple of days. I have two front 15 and 16 T and two rear 46 and 47T. Shame I dont have the stock 17T in 520 size :( Will let you know

Tadi_R1 I'm very grateful to you for posting this. I was going to order the rear sprocket next week and do the job myself. I was also give the incorrect torque specs of 72lbs. Man, sorry you had to go through that. Good looking out for the rest of us. I'll let you know how mine turns out. Still would like to know what the right spec is for the rear axle nut. Do you know?

Tadi_R1 I'm very grateful to you for posting this. I was going to order the rear sprocket next week and do the job myself. I was also give the incorrect torque specs of 72lbs. Man, sorry you had to go through that. Good looking out for the rest of us. I'll let you know how mine turns out. Still would like to know what the right spec is for the rear axle nut. Do you know? I gave you the correct torque specs that you ask for on the thread that you opened on removing the rear wheel for an 05 R1 which is the same as 04-06. Here is the link you can check it out yourself. CLICKY (http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67754&highlight=r1budha) Scroll down to the 04 Chassis #2. If you thought something was incorrect about the torque specs that I gave you, all you had to was ask. My bad. I forgot the manuel was incorrect on the sprocket nut torque specs. The rear axle nut torque spec is correct. I have also updated this info on the thread you started.

Thanks R1 MASTER, yes I saw that. The axle is correct. My friend gave the the same specs for the sprocket of 72lbs. I just got really worried after seeing this post. I appreicate everyone's help.

Hey R1 MASTER, I do have another question about this sprocket thing. Do I need to use something like LockTite on the threads or should I be OK without it? Also I was told if I used a 530 Sprocket with 47 teeth (I think it's 47) I still can use my stock chain. What do you think?

:thumbup Understandable.

Hey R1 MASTER, I do have another question about this sprocket thing. Do I need to use something like LockTite on the threads or should I be OK without it? Also I was told if I used a 530 Sprocket with 47 teeth (I think it's 47) I still can use my stock chain. What do you think? The nuts are self locking (nylon inserts) so there should be no need to put Loctite on them, but if you decide you want to anyway, use the Blue. You should be able to safely go up or down 2 teeth from the stock sprocket teeth and keep your same chain length.

I am changing the front too I have the sprockets but no chain still waiting for it will be here in couple of days. I have two front 15 and 16 T and two rear 46 and 47T. Shame I dont have the stock 17T in 520 size :( Will let you know did you get your chain and sprocket on yet? still curious as to how you like it. i'm dying to change my set up but can't decide what combination is the best. i am thinking -1 front and +2 in the rear. this way i'll have changed both. i'm going to write down my speeds vs. rpm's so i can analyze the difference on paper as well as feel. although feel is the most important. just want to know exactly how it's affecting the bike. but let us know how you like it as soon as you can.

Well, I saw this post a little too late. I just changed my rear sprocket and went to torque the bolts to 72ft lbs. Sure enough I stripped two bolts and now they won't back out. How did you guys get the stripped bolts off?

Well, I saw this post a little too late. I just changed my rear sprocket and went to torque the bolts to 72ft lbs. Sure enough I stripped two bolts and now they won't back out. How did you guys get the stripped bolts off? Do you mean the nuts are stuck on the bolts(studs) and won't come back off? If this is the case, you can get a nut buster to bust the nut off the bolts then knock the stud out and replace it or you can use a grinder but it will be somewhat time consuming. Good luck & ride safe.

Yep, nut won't back off of the stud. I was hoping the dremel would be a last ditch effort. I just order new bolts and studs. Next time I'll search the forum to save myself some headache.

Yep, nut won't back off of the stud. I was hoping the dremel would be a last ditch effort. I just order new bolts and studs. Next time I'll search the forum to save myself some headache. I would try a Nut Buster of some type which should be available at most auto parts stores. If that does not work out I would try to find something a little more aggressive than a dremel at least until you are real close to being thru. Unless you have some dremel tool like I have never seen, it will take you a while doing it that way. Ride safe.

"did you get your chain and sprocket on yet? still curious as to how you like it. " Yes I put in on about 2 weeks ago. It's awesome. My speedo was way off though so I also put on a speedo healer that I got from tobefast.com. Now everything is perfect. I can do throttle wheelies real easy now. There a big improvement on low end torque....however you know your never satisfied. I'm thinking when I get use to it I'll go down 1 in the front to get even more results but all in all Im happy.

Just a side note on torquing.... In most cases, its not necessarily so important that you get the exact torque value. The benefit of torquing a group of fasteners (whether it be a head, rear sprocket, or case cover) is that they all even/equally tight. No one bolt is tighter than the one next to it. That way you don't tighten the crap out of one and snug-up another, essentially putting undue stress or warpage on the item being tightened. Like some people said, in this sprocket application, its probably not that big of a deal. But, I would like to think that some Japanese engineer spec'd a torque value for a given set of bolts for a reason. Therefore, I torque every single bolt. Happy Riding!

My Factory service manul said 72 pounds for the nuts also so i would be checking out that torque wrench with another one I would say that it should get hammered / also I tend to torque 1 to 2 lbs less than what the manual calls for xtra care when bolt is in aluminum & have had no problems / for me that would be 69 lbs [Snap on torque wrench 5 to 75 3/8" drive ]

I just changed my rear to 47 yesterday. I too thought that 72 was a bit high. When torquing down the bolts I found that 3 clicked at 72 no prob but the other 3 seemed to never tighten down, as though they were being pushed into the rubber underneath. I'm glad I found this thread, so is the correct amount 28lbs then?

I just got my hands on my old 2000 R1 sevice manual & the 10 mm nuts call for 49.9 lbs not to sure what to think ? nut size on 06 marchesini & stock 07 is 17mm :nforc:

Man.. I feel the OP's pain... I got the torque setting from obviously the same manual an it is way too high. ~50 sounds more reasonable. Did exactly the same thing stripping 2 so decided to replace all the studs and nuts.. Studs were ok (@ ~$AU28 for 6), bit of a bitch to get out though. The nuts however are RRP $AU16 each... LOL... $AU100 for 6 nuts :) No thanks.. I was able to get some stainless nylock nuts from a local store for under $50c each, They will do until I get around to ordering some probolt black ones.

im doing the same thing this week i was buggen about that im glad someone puts out this infow

Hey all, Torque = NFD N= nut factor, use .2 for a new bolt. F is the force stretching the bolt. D is the diameter of the bolt. So we can calculate the appropriate torque if we assume a yield strength for the material. I'd say that the material is probably at least 75 ksi yield strength, probably 100ksi. So we'll try to torque it to about 1/2 that or 40 ksi. We need the area at the root of the thread. I dont know what size the bolts are but here is a reference for area at root of thread that I just googled: http://www.bigcee.com/reference.html So the F you want is F= 40,000 psi * Area at root of thread. Calculate that, substitute it into the formula above (make sure you convert the D to feet if you want the answer in Ft lbs) and you'll have the appropriate torque for this bolt. If you need any help feel free to PM me. Unlike some posters on this thread, when failure can be life threatening, I will take the time to use a torque wrench. I've been wrenching for 40 years and could probably get it very close w/o a torque wrench but I'm not taking chances. BTW, I do this engineering stuff for a living, JL Stephenson, PE. Not technically challenged. EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If one of those nuts comes loose, its going to hit the swing arm (Crack it maybe) and lock the rear wheel................. I do alot of track days and ride on the street alot. So maintaince on my bike is important to me. So I torque almost everything. With that in mind, it would be a pain in the ass if I had to look up the torque specs every time. So I found it easier getting all my torque specs(brakes,wheels,etc)from the manual and putting it all on one peice of paper and laminating it. That way when I need to torque something, I just look at the cheat sheet in my tool box and I'm done.......................... Just an F.Y.I :)

what is the size of the nut on the front sproket

what is the size of the nut on the front sproket 36mm Also i've had a look at the genuine workshop manuals and, In the UK we have Haynes manual too, it definately says 100Nm for the rear sprocket nuts. 150Nm for front. I have different wheels which use a separate carrier and they require 42Nm. This feels about right when i'm tightening them. I use new lock-nuts and a thread seal. Next time they're all off i'm going to drill each bolt and lockwire them for final piece of mind. Hope that helps. Norm

I know this is an old thread but I've done alot of research online and manuals on other brand bikes. Everything say's if the nut/bolt is grade 8, 40 to 45 ft lbs dry.