Is chain lube really necessary

O rings are internally lubed for the life of the chain. Applying chain lube does not lube the O rings{as far as I know}, but rather coat the chain for water protection and keep rust to a minimum. Over the past few months I've gone without applying lube after cleaning my chain with the recommend kerosene. I've found the chain is much easier to clean and it does not attract dirt and sand like it did when I was using the lube. I've noticed the coating of kerosene keeps the chain looking good too. Now, I'm not a expert on motorcycle chains by any means, but by not using lube for the last few months I no longer have caked up lube on the sprockets and the bike stays much cleaner. I still clean the chain as usual and it takes less time to do it now. In the past I've used PJ1 blue label, Honda {red cap} and Maxima chain wax which are pretty good brands that don't fling off. After doing a track day a few weeks ago without the lube I noticed the chain was much cleaner with no sand and dirt all over it like before. So, what are your opinions on chain lube? To lube or not to lube? That is the question... :confused:

i'm a non-lube guy. Have been for many years and probably 50,000 miles. Several track days. Never had a chain fail.

Good question. subscribed

i have always lubed my chain with the honda red can and i beleive that it is the best one. In my oppinion i think it is important to lube it because it is such an important part of the bike.

hmmm...I was told that it helps with the life of the chain. Never really wanted to test the theory, so I always just lubed it up. Good question. Now I am interested in finding out for sure.

I have always been a luber... but I am thinking about changing over. It sounds nice not to have the build up, etc. and makes sense not to have to lube since all the new chains are o-ring or x-ring and already lubed.

:corn

Randy, I am done with chain lube as well. I been using WD-40. It keeps it clean and nice and loose. that chain lube just cakes up and does't allow the chain to flow freely. I had Thermosman tell me that a dirty, or non free flowing chain can reduce HP up to 1 or 2! He even said to use WD-40. I took my brand new chain on the 07 and wiped all that new crap off it and put WD-40 on it too.

Randy, It's a good thing you took those pictures of my bike at night! You'd be horrified at the condition my chain is in. My bike was my daily driver and I kept it gunked up to help protect it while it sat outside in the parking lot at work. I've done the WD/40 thing but prefer to use GT-85 when I want the chain to be tidy looking. For now it's Motul, since I've run out of Honda chain lube. I'm pretty picky about most mechanical things, but have never felt it was that necessary for O-ring chains. I clean and lube my MTB chains and sprockets more than I do my M/Cs since I'm the motor.

If your racin' only and change the chain and sprocket regularly I could see not lubing the chain. However... To reduce friction between the chain and sprockets and therefore wear on the roller to tooth interface, I'll keep cleaning and then lubing mine with PJ1.

Randy, I am done with chain lube as well. I been using WD-40. It keeps it clean and nice and loose. that chain lube just cakes up and does't allow the chain to flow freely. I had Thermosman tell me that a dirty, or non free flowing chain can reduce HP up to 1 or 2! He even said to use WD-40. I took my brand new chain on the 07 and wiped all that new crap off it and put WD-40 on it too. Yeah Chad, I'm starting to feel the same way after all these years of putting lube on the chain. I can't count the times I've had caked lube around the front and rear sprockets which is a pain to get and stay clean. The cleaning of the chain I still do, but after my own tests of not using the lube I'm sort of convinced it's not really needed and some of those lube companies are making some big bucks for something that's not needed. It seems like using the lube makes it harder to clean the chain and I've noticed when cleaning it back then all of the dirt and sand I would flush out of it after only 500 miles of riding. Now, after cleaning it with kerosene and not using the lube I get hardly no dirt out of it and the chain looks much better.

Good question...Subscribing to this thread

yeah, that dirt and sand can't be good for it either! and Kerosene or WD-40 doesn't attract it like most chain lubes do. Now Motul makes a nice chain lube that isn't sticky, but it is expensive...imagine that, LOL

i run nonoring chain on my bike. dont ride too many street miles. so i have to keep it lubed with something. normally i use light oil and clean it good. dont have any problems with mine.

Randy, It's a good thing you took those pictures of my bike at night! You'd be horrified at the condition my chain is in. My bike was my daily driver and I kept it gunked up to help protect it while it sat outside in the parking lot at work. I've done the WD/40 thing but prefer to use GT-85 when I want the chain to be tidy looking. For now it's Motul, since I've run out of Honda chain lube. I'm pretty picky about most mechanical things, but have never felt it was that necessary for O-ring chains. I clean and lube my MTB chains and sprockets more than I do my M/Cs since I'm the motor. Yeah, I see your point. After doing Jennings on the 20th without the lube I was really amazed when I got home and inspected the chain. Nothing had stuck to it. No sand or nothing. The chain was spotless and in great shape. My bike stays in a locked garage and it's never outside unless I'm riding or transporting it, so it really never sees much rain or bad weather. I guess chain lube would be good for bikes out in the weather exposed to the elements.

i like this topic, i'm interested. think i might be doin some googling before bed tonight.

If your racin' only and change the chain and sprocket regularly I could see not lubing the chain. However... To reduce friction between the chain and sprockets and therefore wear on the roller to tooth interface, I'll keep cleaning and then lubing mine with PJ1. Yeah Mike, that was a concern of mine too. Like I say, I'm not a chain expert by any means; however, from my own observations it appears the lube is what's attracting the dirt and sand. I think the important thing to do is keep the chain clean at all times by using kerosene or WD40 and wipe it down if it gets wet.

Hi Randy! Just did a 520 conversion at the 20K mark. Both OEM chain and sprockets look new. I never lubed it once! Always cleaned with WD-40, especially after a wash or a wet ride. Never collected debris like a lubed chain. The inside of the countershaft sprocket cover is even clean! The double gold side plates on the new ERV3 look so nice and I expect them to look just as nice in 20K more miles. Ride safe big guy! See ya at the Gap!

heres what i think. when i lube my chain it makes the bike sound much more smooth. if you get a smoother sound how can it not be reducing friction? and anyone with sh!t caked up on there sprockets or chain is not properly taking care of their chain. but i dont disagree with not lubing...i just prefer to keep it clean and lubed. ive had bikes that i didnt lube it and it seemed fine. just now that i take care of it, keep it clean and lubed the bike sounds much smoother.

How often do you clean and/or lube your chains and sprockets?

also fwiw if the lube doesnt stay on the chain cuz it all flings off...what use is it? i see guys talking about stuff caked up in other areas other than one the chain or sprockets...thats because it flung off and you didnt put it on correctly. i know everyone knows about riding the bike to get the chain warm before lubing...but it seems to adhere better when you get the chain even warmer than possible with riding. i use a torch to warm it...with the rear up on the stand so you can spin it and not concentrate on one part of the chain. dont want to get any certain spots too warm to melt the o-rings. been working very well for me and not one bit of lube splash at all.

There is a very interesting post at the FZ1 forum from a guy who actually wrote WD-40 regarding its use as "chain cleaner". http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8987&highlight=WD-40+letter I clean with WD-40 every 1K Km. (625 mi) and apply a very thin layer of chain lube (sometimes).

Interesting feed back guys. I guess it all depends on what you believe in and what works best for you. I think the actual and regular cleaning of the chain is the important thing. Probably, for those who lube put way to much on and that's what attracts the dirt and the excess cakes up on the sprockets.

Hi Randy! Just did a 520 conversion at the 20K mark. Both OEM chain and sprockets look new. I never lubed it once! Always cleaned with WD-40, especially after a wash or a wet ride. Never collected debris like a lubed chain. The inside of the countershaft sprocket cover is even clean! The double gold side plates on the new ERV3 look so nice and I expect them to look just as nice in 20K more miles. Ride safe big guy! See ya at the Gap! 20K WOW... Your racking up that '04. J/K, that's what it's all about. See you in June. :thumbup

Randy, I have used WD40 on my R1 since new, it has 21K on the stock chain and sprockets and barely ever needs adjustment or anything...I also dont clean it with kerosen...WD40 is all I ever used on my MX bikes either...all the lubes or waxes do is collect dirt and fling crap on your back

think I might be converting to WD-40 only.

Ive got almost 22k miles on mine with a 520 conversion and I lube every 500 miles or whever it gets wet. I have started to see that all the x-rings are breaking and stands are hanging out.

do you guys think it makes a difference if you are mostly on street or track? meatbag, after 22k I think you have gotten good use out of that chain :lol

Whether the drivechain is lubricated with engine oil, grease, gear oil, light machine oil, or a commercially available chain wax or lube, the lubrication of the chain serves several purposes. 1. Conditioning of rubber O-rings, preventing O-rings from drying out and cracking, and the subsequent escape of grease from chain rollers 2. Reduction of friction, and therefore heat, allowing chain and drive sprockets to run cooler, therefore extending drivechain and drive sprocket life 3. Cushioning and prevention of direct metal-metal contact between chain and sprockets 4. Prevention of the formation of rust on chain I personally prefer Honda Red Cap chain lube. It forms a dry, thin, non-sticky coating that is minimally attractive to dust, dirt and sand, is highly resistant to rust, and is easy to clean. The most common cause of a dirty chain is using too much lube, which attracts dirt and builds up, making a mess. Any time my chain is exposed to water, or after a longer trip, I clean it with WD-40 and a soft brush. Making sure I remove all the WD-40, I spray the inside run of the chain one time. After every ride thereafter, I spray a shop towel with lube and run the chain through the lubed towel. This keeps the chain clean and protected, keeps the O-rings happy, and prevents buildup. My drivechain gleams. My $.02

This is gonna get good.:corn

I use Bel-Ray 6 in 1 that contains extreme pressure additives, light bodied like WD-40 but a little extra for the rollers and a breeze to clean. http://www.belray.com/consumer/product.fsp?pid=13612 A molly dry lube would be the ticket though.

I needs to lube my chain, yo.

A molly dry lube would be the ticket though. :secret: That's what Honda Red Cap is.

hey, what size chain does an 05 r1 come with, is it the 520 or is it some other #i missed somewhere

hey, what size chain does an 05 r1 come with, is it the 520 or is it some other #i missed somewhere #530

#530 ok, wtf does that stand for anyways

suscrinbed

ok, wtf does that stand for anyways Check this out: http://www.kneedraggers.com/list/viewall/1.3

Whether the drivechain is lubricated with engine oil, grease, gear oil, light machine oil, or a commercially available chain wax or lube, the lubrication of the chain serves several purposes. 1. Conditioning of rubber O-rings, preventing O-rings from drying out and cracking, and the subsequent escape of grease from chain rollers 2. Reduction of friction, and therefore heat, allowing chain and drive sprockets to run cooler, therefore extending drivechain and drive sprocket life 3. Cushioning and prevention of direct metal-metal contact between chain and sprockets 4. Prevention of the formation of rust on chain I personally prefer Honda Red Cap chain lube. It forms a dry, thin, non-sticky coating that is minimally attractive to dust, dirt and sand, is highly resistant to rust, and is easy to clean. The most common cause of a dirty chain is using too much lube, which attracts dirt and builds up, making a mess. Any time my chain is exposed to water, or after a longer trip, I clean it with WD-40 and a soft brush. Making sure I remove all the WD-40, I spray the inside run of the chain one time. After every ride thereafter, I spray a shop towel with lube and run the chain through the lubed towel. This keeps the chain clean and protected, keeps the O-rings happy, and prevents buildup. My drivechain gleams. My $.02 You hit it right on the head...THIS is the reason to PROPERLY lube your chains. Great post.:thumbup

i heard about the no lube theory but havent tried it out yet. i am however using DuPont Multi-Purpose Lube. its a wax based lube with teflon, the chain rarely gets gunky or dirty. when it dries it does a great job repelling crap off the chain. i clean the chain with kerosene (heard the wd-40 nightmare) and go for a short ride to warm the chain up, wipe down the chain and spray on the lube. i will try out the non lube soon when my can is out just to see how it goes.

5 is the pitch or distance between pin. 30 is width. so 530 chain has the same distance between pins as 520, but the 520 chain is narrower. there are all kinds of sizes of chains. from 420 to 630 or so..prolly some bigger than that. 520 chain offer less weight and rotating mass which equal more power...why some change from 530. but there are some 520 with equal or better tensile strength of some 530s, but overall 530 chains will usually last little longer than 520...but it all comes down to taking care of chain. ive seen some 530 that didnt last montth or 2..and some that are 5 years old with 50k miles on them. take care of chain..clean it..and use something to lube it and keep it from rusting.

i'm a non-lube guy. http://joebrower.com/PHILE_PILE/PIX/FR/ky_jelly.jpg

Randy, I am done with chain lube as well. I been using WD-40. It keeps it clean and nice and loose. that chain lube just cakes up and does't allow the chain to flow freely. I had Thermosman tell me that a dirty, or non free flowing chain can reduce HP up to 1 or 2! He even said to use WD-40. I took my brand new chain on the 07 and wiped all that new crap off it and put WD-40 on it too. WD-40 is correct and I m unfortunately agreeing with Chad. WD stands for Water Displacement, which like the word says, displaces water from anything it is sprayed on. It gets rid of water that seeps into the O ring area, along with a protective coating on the rubber O rings and metal parts of the chain. This is really all you should need.........

Subscribed

coming from a mechanic and rider going 40 years.. YES!!! it helps the life of the chain, i' saw the other end of this.. my uncles bike was dying, chain falling appart, you dont want to know how much it was gonna cost to fix it... lube took care of it, still going strong a few thousand miles later.. clean the hell out of it with break fluid n' cloth.. lube it well... and look how shiny she look!!

I replace chain and sprockets with every other tire replacement so I'm not trying to get 40,000 miles out of a chain, I use top quality chains and sprockets and I never ride in the rain unless I get caught out in it. I am more concerned about uneven chain stretch, when your chain is tight in one spot and too loose in another, I don't think lube will prevent this. So if you want to get maximum mileage from chain and sprockets you should lube, but if you replace them often I don't think it's necassary.

I've got a 1/2 mile gravel driveway which gets very dusty, so I don't use any lube for fear that it would just make the dust stick. On my motocross bike which has a non-oring chain, I take the chain off between rides, and leave it soaking in motor oil. Been working good so far.

These threads just confuse me even more. :fact I think I will stick with the WD-40 like Eric and Chad have said and then if it goes wrong I will blame them!! :fact :lol :lol

Whether the drivechain is lubricated with engine oil, grease, gear oil, light machine oil, or a commercially available chain wax or lube, the lubrication of the chain serves several purposes. 1. Conditioning of rubber O-rings, preventing O-rings from drying out and cracking, and the subsequent escape of grease from chain rollers 2. Reduction of friction, and therefore heat, allowing chain and drive sprockets to run cooler, therefore extending drivechain and drive sprocket life 3. Cushioning and prevention of direct metal-metal contact between chain and sprockets 4. Prevention of the formation of rust on chain I personally prefer Honda Red Cap chain lube. It forms a dry, thin, non-sticky coating that is minimally attractive to dust, dirt and sand, is highly resistant to rust, and is easy to clean. The most common cause of a dirty chain is using too much lube, which attracts dirt and builds up, making a mess. Any time my chain is exposed to water, or after a longer trip, I clean it with WD-40 and a soft brush. Making sure I remove all the WD-40, I spray the inside run of the chain one time. After every ride thereafter, I spray a shop towel with lube and run the chain through the lubed towel. This keeps the chain clean and protected, keeps the O-rings happy, and prevents buildup. My drivechain gleams. My $.02 You bring up some very good points, yankin'. I've also found when cleaning the chain the kerosene soaks in behind the links in towards the o rings. I would think this would serve the same purpose as the lube in conditioning the rubber and not let it dry out. Plus, the kerosene is thinner and seeps in better than thicker chain lube would. I've always used kerosene to clean the chain as recommended by Yamaha. I know many guys are sold on the WD40 method, but maybe it's because WD40 is a kerosene based product. Again, I'm no chain expert. I guess the key is not to use to much lube on the chain and only lube the rollers and not the side plates to not attract dirt and sand.

These threads just confuse me even more. :fact I think I will stick with the WD-40 like Eric and Chad have said and then if it goes wrong I will blame them!! :fact :lol :lol I hear you Brian. I know many riders who use the WD40 method that have over 20K miles with no problems. I've never used it.

I hear you Brian. I know many riders who use the WD40 method that have over 20K miles with no problems. I've never used it. I do want to get one of those Grunge Brushes that Shane sells though. :fact :yesnod http://www.tobefast.com/detail.aspx?ID=995

WD-40 is correct and I m unfortunately agreeing with Chad. WD stands for Water Displacement, which like the word says, displaces water from anything it is sprayed on. It gets rid of water that seeps into the O ring area, along with a protective coating on the rubber O rings and metal parts of the chain. This is really all you should need......... Yea...What Larry said.:yesnod

WD-40 is correct and I m unfortunately agreeing with Chad. ah ha!!! That may be the best statement you have ever made, lmao I hear you Brian. I know many riders who use the WD40 method that have over 20K miles with no problems. I've never used it. Randy, WD-40 is a heck of a lot easier to carry around and to use quick than kerosene. I am sure the same thing is accomplished by either one.:thumbup

I do want to get one of those Grunge Brushes that Shane sells though. :fact :yesnod http://www.tobefast.com/detail.aspx?ID=995 I got one last year and it really makes cleaning the chain much easier. Not really sure how long the bristles are going to last, but it isn't expensive to replace.

I got one last year and it really makes cleaning the chain much easier. Not really sure how long the bristles are going to last, but it isn't expensive to replace. Yeah....I plan on ordering a couple just to have a spare. :fact

the part of this story being missed is that using WD-40 is still "lubing" the chain. Most of the guys in here "clean" their chains pretty regularly, but at the same time it is also lubricating the chain with the thin film it leaves. If you don't believe that, use WD-40 to remove a decal on a paint job, the damn film it leaves just doesn't seem to go away very readily without using some type of cleaner to remove it. This is the same film that is going on your chain when you clean it....and because guys do it regularly you really ARE lubing the chain. Most chain lubes are thick to allow them to last longer on the chain, which is fine for people that only do it 2-3 times a year. They probably should use this stuff. But, for the regular maintenance crowd, WD-40 is perfect, and is in fact a lube. Years ago I used the expensive chain lubes.....they did an incredible job of protecting the inner surfaces of my rear rim. :fact

Won't WD-40 wash out or harm the grease that is packed in the O-ring chain? I also get tired of cleaning and lubing my chain and 2 rides later it looks like it had never been done.

the part of this story being missed is that using WD-40 is still "lubing" the chain. Most of the guys in here "clean" their chains pretty regularly, but at the same time it is also lubricating the chain with the thin film it leaves. If you don't believe that, use WD-40 to remove a decal on a paint job, the damn film it leaves just doesn't seem to go away very readily without using some type of cleaner to remove it. This is the same film that is going on your chain when you clean it....and because guys do it regularly you really ARE lubing the chain. Most chain lubes are thick to allow them to last longer on the chain, which is fine for people that only do it 2-3 times a year. They probably should use this stuff. But, for the regular maintenance crowd, WD-40 is perfect, and is in fact a lube. Years ago I used the expensive chain lubes.....they did an incredible job of protecting the inner surfaces of my rear rim. :fact Yes, that was my observation while cleaning my chain with kerosene all these years. I noticed the thin film it leaves. Of course, the whole key is to clean or coat the chain with it on a regular basis {which is easy to do}. After several months of doing this I have absolutely no dirt or grime on the chain when it's time to clean it again. Plus, the chain looks like it's been maintained in top shape with no visible ware on it.

Won't WD-40 wash out or harm the grease that is packed in the O-ring chain? I also get tired of cleaning and lubing my chain and 2 rides later it looks like it had never been done. Well, if that was the case then I'm sure kerosene would do the same thing and that's what the Yamaha's owners manual suggests to use in cleaning the chain. I'm thinking the rubber O rings are impregnated with a lube rather than being packed with grease and by using kerosene or WD40 it helps to keep them soft and pliable.

My last bike was an '01 Yamaha FZ1. The chain and sprockets were replaced at approximately 18,000 miles because I wanted a change in gearing. My current bike is an '03 R1 with approximately 15,000 miles on it with the original rear sprocket and chain. Neither of those two chains ever saw anything other than WD40. An O-ring or X-ring chain does not need chain lube, just something to keep the rust at bay. Bottom line.

Skeeter, when you use keroseen too clean chain, do you take the whole chain off and let it soak, or do you just wipe it down with a rag or something? I've been using chain wax on my chain, if i clean it well after lubing seam okay, but its starting to gunk up my sprockets n leave shyt in the front sproket area. Curby :dundun:

Curby you can leave the chain on. I just put mine up on the stand and spin the tire with my hand and use the grunge brush with the cleaner it came with then WD-40. If I think I'm going to be in the rain I use chain lube.

You need to lube your chain. Here's rough drawing of a chain and it's components. Maybe it will help.

i cant believe it hasnt been mentioned but kerosene kills o-rings.

I used to use kerosene actually in South Africa we call it turpentine. The hardware shops here have no clue of what kerosene is. Kerosene drys the o rings and does not leave a good bonding surface for the chain lube. I use super clean chain wax, it attracts very little dirt doesn't fling of and when I use a aerosol chain cleaner it blows the chain wax of instantly. I would be worried to get caught in the rain without chain wax on. Besides just because engine oil is dirty when you remove it doesn't mean you must drive/ride without it. I think of lube as little ball bearings that reduce friction and wouldn't consider riding metal to metal.

i cant believe it hasnt been mentioned but kerosene kills o-rings. Then why does Yamaha say to use it in cleaning the chain? I used nothing but kerosene when I cleaned the chain on my '03 R1. The bike had over 17K miles on it when I sold it last July with the original chain and sprockets that were in very good shape. What is supposed to be used to clean the chain? I know you guys aren't putting expensive lube on a dirty chain!!!!

i have 22500 miles on my 05,and i didnt really clean the chain that much. and its ok

I used to use turpentine actually in South Africa we call it turpentine. The hardware shops here have no clue of what kerosene is. Kerosene drys the o rings and does not leave a good bonding surface for the chain lube. I use super clean chain wax, it attracts very little dirt doesn't fling of and when I use a aerosol chain cleaner it blows the chain wax of instantly. I would be worried to get caught in the rain without chain wax on. Besides just because engine oil is dirty when you remove it doesn't mean you must drive/ride without it. I think of lube as little ball bearings that reduce friction and wouldn't consider riding metal to metal. Turpentine and Kerosene are 2 very different animals! Turpentine is made of oils and resin from pine, fir, and other conifer trees and Kerosene is a petroleum fuel!

i have 22500 miles on my 05,and i didnt really clean the chain that much. and its ok:) This is why it is so difficult to figure out what works and what doesn't.

Then why does Yamaha say to use it in cleaning the chain? I used nothing but kerosene when I cleaned the chain on my '03 R1. The bike had over 17K miles on it when I sold it last July with the original chain and sprockets that were in very good shape. What is supposed to be used to clean the chain? I know you guys aren't putting expensive lube on a dirty chain!!!! Judging by the responses and testiments to chain longevity it looks like there are many ways to do it. My method works for me, not saying it's the best, just that it works for me. I throw it up on the stand when the chain rollers start to look shiny and dry. I do it after a good ride when the chain is good and warm. Put it on the stand and idle it in first gear. Put a chain brush on it to remove any loose stuff or dirt. Spray it very lightly with black label PJ-1 (for o-ring chains) using the straw on the rollers and then between the sideplates on both sides and then kill the motor to let the lube work it's way into the chain. I clean any excess that gets on the wheel, guard or sprocket side with Honda Spray Cleaner and Polish. When I change my oil I clean the chain by using a small paint brush and kerosene. Put the bike on the stand, hand rotate the rear tire/chain and brush a good amount of kerosene on the chain. Let it sit while I change the oil. After changing oil I'll brush the chain with kerosene again and then quickly wipe the chain down with a rag. I spray it lightly with WD-40, take it for a short ride, come back, throw it on the stand again and do the regular lube w/PJ-1. My last Yammie chain had what looked like zero wear at 11,000 (and a cubic ass-load of 1/4mi runs) with only a slight stretch (6 and 3/8 vice 6 and 1/4 when new). Not saying it's the best method, but it works for me.

Turpentine and Kerosene are 2 very different animals! Turpentine is made of oils and resin from pine, fir, and other conifer trees and Kerosene is a petroleum fuel!:thumbup Thanks for spotting that. I meant to say paraffin I always get confused with the two. I actually cleaned my chain with turpentine once by acident and when I realised it I recleaned it with paraffin/kerosene. I think turpentine will really eat the o rings.

Kerosene is a good cleaner , if the chain has alot of Junk on it.....It is an Organic solvent, which means it will dissolve oil and Grease. Kerosene is also considered an oil, so it won't dry out the o rings like some suggest. The best combo if the chain is really bad, is to soak it and clean it in Kerosene first, wipe it off, then lube it with WD-40..........

Randy, I am done with chain lube as well. I been using WD-40. It keeps it clean and nice and loose. that chain lube just cakes up and does't allow the chain to flow freely. I had Thermosman tell me that a dirty, or non free flowing chain can reduce HP up to 1 or 2! He even said to use WD-40. I took my brand new chain on the 07 and wiped all that new crap off it and put WD-40 on it too. Add me to the list of WD-40 users! I've used it on my last R1 and this R1 exclusively with no problems. It's all I use on my Raptor 700 quad as well. You can't beat WD-40. It keeps everything clean and does an excellent job!

Obviously there are many opinions on how to service a chain. If what your doing is working for you, then continue on! I don't believe personally that WD 40 has enough sheer properties in it to lubricate the rollers/gears very well or for very long, unless your applying every 10 mile. I've known people who have gotten 25,000 out of a stock chain and never cleaned it once. Just kept it lubed well. Others who have religiously cleaned their chain and only got 10,000 mi. maybe. Riding conditions have a lot to do with it also. People who ride in dirty conditions all the time won't get the longevity lets say of someone who rides in the city mostly! I think a lot of people are sold on WD 40 due to cleanliness factor and not really for protection of the chain. I personally will clean my chain every so often (maybe 2-3 times a yr., not a fanatic) and lube with Chainwax every 300 mi.

Skeeter, when you use keroseen too clean chain, do you take the whole chain off and let it soak, or do you just wipe it down with a rag or something? I've been using chain wax on my chain, if i clean it well after lubing seam okay, but its starting to gunk up my sprockets n leave shyt in the front sproket area. Curby :dundun: No, you can't take off the chain. I just soak it down good with kerosene working on one section at a time with the bike on a rear stand. I use a small brush like a toothbrush then apply more kerosene until it comes clean, rotate the tire to a new section of the chain and repeat. After I'm done I wipe the entire chain down with a clean rag leaving a good film of kerosene on it. I've got all the old caked on chain lube out of the teeth and sides of both sprockets.

i use simple green... takes the crud right off and doesnt hurt the precious rubber x/o rings.

the part of this story being missed is that using WD-40 is still "lubing" the chain. Most of the guys in here "clean" their chains pretty regularly, but at the same time it is also lubricating the chain with the thin film it leaves. If you don't believe that, use WD-40 to remove a decal on a paint job, the damn film it leaves just doesn't seem to go away very readily without using some type of cleaner to remove it. This is the same film that is going on your chain when you clean it....and because guys do it regularly you really ARE lubing the chain. Most chain lubes are thick to allow them to last longer on the chain, which is fine for people that only do it 2-3 times a year. They probably should use this stuff. But, for the regular maintenance crowd, WD-40 is perfect, and is in fact a lube. Problem with that is, WD-40 is more of a petroleum distillate-based solvent than a lubricant. It does not have the "staying power" of an oil or wax, and will quickly "burn off."

i use simple green... takes the crud right off and doesnt hurt the precious rubber x/o rings. Actually, Simple Green, Power Purple, etc. contain toluene, a strong hydrocarbon solvent which is most definitely capable of compromising the rubber O-rings in your drivechain, not to mention the finish on your frame, swingarm, rims, and painted surfaces on your bike. Simple Green would be safe to use on rims, frame, swingarm, etc. only if diluted.

Obviously there are many opinions on how to service a chain. If what your doing is working for you, then continue on! I don't believe personally that WD 40 has enough sheer properties in it to lubricate the rollers/gears very well or for very long, unless your applying every 10 mile. Riding conditions have a lot to do with it also. I think a lot of people are sold on WD 40 due to cleanliness factor and not really for protection of the chain. Yes.

I have never lubed a Chain, Hell i Brake cleaned the 07 the first day i got it....

Ive got almost 22k miles on mine with a 520 conversion and I lube every 500 miles or whever it gets wet. I have started to see that all the x-rings are breaking and stands are hanging out. i clean with wd40 and then apply a light coat with chain grease. i have noticed the same thing on my DIDERV3 520 x-ring chain but i had at least a dozen broken x-rings by 2500km. I have never seen this with an o-ring chain before though using the same maintenance method. edit: hmm i see someone has said that kero kills o-rings? well here is the thing, i have never used kero to clean a chain before i got the DIDERV3 which coincidently was my first ever x-ring chain. However i have just started using kero on this chain rather than wd40... anyways, from now on i will remove all 3 suspects, kero wd40 and x-ring chains and im going back to a 530 just to be sure! i have snapped a chain before and was lucky, it just fell out on the road and didnt rip my leg off or tear my bike apart. I dont want to take that chance again :)

WD-40 here also

wd-40 wasn't designed for motorcycle chains o-ring or not. It has a low vaporisation temp around 130 f it also has a very weak film strength less than that of Kerosene ....it is not kerosene. I'm a Hazardous chemical guy and if you check into CFR49 and look into to these.....both MSD's are available online....they are not the same. If your manual says use kerosene..then use just that. Not something else. Alos you manual say probably put 90 w on it. From an enginerering standpoint this is the cushion the rollers against the sprocket; metal on metal is not good. it accelerates wear of those surfaces coorsion protection is offered in many forms. WD40s properties are short lived . WD-40 will not soften orings..it does nothing. saying to go against the factories recomendations is BAD internet advice; with little evidence to back it up. Howabout a controlled test. Not just "what happened to me" factors. No? Might get a little pricey...eh? READ your MOM and heed it. IF the factory that makes your bike puts a lube out for the chain use that! Furthermore... One ride in the rain lubed or unlubbed and you chain becomes filthy and gets all kinds of grit on it. Its gonna happen. I do believe there is way to many overly gooey chain lubes out there.

well i just checked my 06 R1's owners manual, and i am surprised by what i read but here it is... "CAUTION: the drive chain must be lubricated after washing the motorcycle or riding in the rain 1. Clean the drive chain with kerosine and a small soft brush. CAUTION: To prevent damaging the O-rings, do not clean the drive chain with steam cleaners, high pressure washers, or inappropriate solvents. 2. Wipe the drive chain dry 3. Thoroughly lubricate the drive chain with a special O-ring chain lubricant. CAUTION: do not use engine oil or any other lubricants for the drive chain, as they may contain substances that could damage the O-rings." page 6-28 (periodic maintenance and repair) from YZFR1V(C) Owner's Manual. For me this answers the question, is chain lube really necessary. Yes.

Pav, thats strictly up to you and how u want to lube or not lube ur chain. its like what brand of oil to use or how to break in ur bike.. its all matter of opinion.

exactly... that's why i wrote... "For me this answers the question, is chain lube really necessary. Yes."

"For me this answers the question, is chain lube really necessary. Yes." no shite!! :owwn3d

wd-40 wasn't designed for motorcycle chains o-ring or not. It has a low vaporisation temp around 130 f it also has a very weak film strength less than that of Kerosene ....it is not kerosene. I'm a Hazardous chemical guy and if you check into CFR49 and look into to these.....both MSD's are available online....they are not the same. If your manual says use kerosene..then use just that. Not something else. Alos you manual say probably put 90 w on it. From an enginerering standpoint this is the cushion the rollers against the sprocket; metal on metal is not good. it accelerates wear of those surfaces coorsion protection is offered in many forms. WD40s properties are short lived . WD-40 will not soften orings..it does nothing. saying to go against the factories recomendations is BAD internet advice; with little evidence to back it up. Howabout a controlled test. Not just "what happened to me" factors. No? Might get a little pricey...eh? READ your MOM and heed it. IF the factory that makes your bike puts a lube out for the chain use that! Furthermore... One ride in the rain lubed or unlubbed and you chain becomes filthy and gets all kinds of grit on it. Its gonna happen. I do believe there is way to many overly gooey chain lubes out there. laubin, that is some very good information you provided. Thanks for the feedback. Personally, I have never used WD 40; however, many riders do and they report excellent results with chains lasting well over 20K miles. I guess it's all up the the rider to maintain his chain the way he or she sees fit. Thanks again for the feedback.

i did a lot of research as i always do when it comes 2 my bike or car, & I'm pretty convinced chain lube is completly non-essential our chains r lubed internally! since i stopped spraying that crap on my chain & started using kerosene i got @ ace hardware & my grunge brush( a huge bottle for $8) my chain/sprocket/rim/undertail r a 100x cleaner. WD-40 which is just a modified version of kerosene i also recommend but is more expensive to use. i will admit my chain does have a sm amount of rust deposit but u really have 2 get close 2 even c that & its from the ridiculous humidity in the bay area; i still would take that over the mess chain lube creates.

i use chain lube , silkoline oil seems to keep my chain looking clean and healthy :)

If only the factory chain lube stayed behind those littlr o-rings for the life of the chain. But sadly, it does not. If it did chains would last longer. It's uncoated metal, it needs oil from time to time to keep rust at bay. My guess is the people reporting great results with no oil live in low humidity places, and or store their bikes inddors on a climate controlled setting. For what a chain costs, and what it does, you would be crazy not to give it the proper maintaince it needs.

My guess is the people reporting great results with no oil live in low humidity places, and or store their bikes inddors on a climate controlled setting. . I live in Florida, so humitidy is high...24k on the factory chain, never used chain lube at all, WD40 from the start! My bike does does stay in the garage.

WD40....that's it. :thumbup And Kmac is a bish! :chair: :lol

KY Jelly....that's it. :thumbup :secret:He said CHAIN lube. :2bitchsla

:secret:I use man juice lube. :ugh :ugh

http://www.pitposse.com/lipechlu.html or go to Home Depot / Lowes and get PB Blaster TDL (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/blaster/) Both go on dry , stay dry and never fling.

http://www.pitposse.com/lipechlu.html or go to Home Depot / Lowes and get PB Blaster TDL (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/blaster/) Both go on dry , stay dry and never fling. 02R1guy, I don't know about using the PB Blaster. It's a lot more harsh than WD40. Spray a little into a styrofoam cup and watch the cup melt. I'm afraid it would eat into the O-rings over time causing the chain to fail.

02R1guy, I don't know about using the PB Blaster. It's a lot more harsh than WD40. Spray a little into a styrofoam cup and watch the cup melt. I'm afraid it would eat into the O-rings over time causing the chain to fail. Skeeter, Your thinking of Regular PB Blaster. Rubber o-rings are a little tougher than a Styrofoam cup, no ? Honestly I use the TDL(The Dry Lube) for other areas (pivots) and the Liquid Performance Graphite spray for my chain(It's made for chains). Warm the chain up, spray on, let it dry/evaporate...wipe off if you want and your done. I've never seen anything on my wheels(my 02 had candy red pc).

Skeeter, Your thinking of Regular PB Blaster. Rubber o-rings are a little tougher than a Styrofoam cup, no ? Honestly I use the TDL(The Dry Lube) for other areas (pivots) and the Liquid Performance Graphite spray for my chain(It's made for chains). Warm the chain up, spray on, let it dry/evaporate...wipe off if you want and your done. I've never seen anything on my wheels(my 02 had candy red pc). Yeah, I was thinking you were talking about the regular PB Blaster. I agree with you on the rubber o-rings being tougher than styrofoam, but if used all the time I think it would damage the o-rings. The orange orginal PB is pretty strong. I've not used the TDL or the graphite spray by them. Sounds like you are having pretty good luck with it. The graphite spray sounds pretty good. Next time I go to Lowes or Home Depot I'll check it out. :thumbup

WD 40 is all that is needed on O or X ring chains. Anything else just makes you feel better.

WD 40 is all that is needed on O or X ring chains. Anything else just makes you feel better. :hellobye :lol :lol

:hellobye Bogie

:hellobye Bogie I like your avatar!! :thumbup

I like your avatar!! :thumbup :2bitchsla To bad no one is capable of fixing the things that actually need fixing.:hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

A well lubed chain should be like a well lubed woman...imo

If only the factory chain lube stayed behind those littlr o-rings for the life of the chain. But sadly, it does not. If it did chains would last longer. It's uncoated metal, it needs oil from time to time to keep rust at bay. My guess is the people reporting great results with no oil live in low humidity places, and or store their bikes inddors on a climate controlled setting. For what a chain costs, and what it does, you would be crazy not to give it the proper maintaince it needs. I agree with the uncoated metal thing. My DID has been on my FZR since A LONG time ago, and it is just now starting to pull away from the sprocket. Nothing but WD to clean, and occasional light lube (virtually completely wiped off after application).

O rings are internally lubed for the life of the chain. Applying chain lube does not lube the O rings{as far as I know}, but rather coat the chain for water protection and keep rust to a minimum. Over the past few months I've gone without applying lube after cleaning my chain with the recommend kerosene. I've found the chain is much easier to clean and it does not attract dirt and sand like it did when I was using the lube. I've noticed the coating of kerosene keeps the chain looking good too. Now, I'm not a expert on motorcycle chains by any means, but by not using lube for the last few months I no longer have caked up lube on the sprockets and the bike stays much cleaner. I still clean the chain as usual and it takes less time to do it now. In the past I've used PJ1 blue label, Honda {red cap} and Maxima chain wax which are pretty good brands that don't fling off. After doing a track day a few weeks ago without the lube I noticed the chain was much cleaner with no sand and dirt all over it like before. So, what are your opinions on chain lube? To lube or not to lube? That is the question... :confused: Understand your reasoning, and from personal experience, I am sure many of us notice that after you lube, you get the dirt attracted to the chain. But why would the manufacturers of chains want you to lube? Is it because they get money from lubricant makers for making us think that? Or is it because there is something behind it all? The above kid of sounds like a big conspiracy theory, and I tend to think that most answers to many questions are usually the simple ones. Also, I understand about the o rings inside the chain already being lubricated, but if you can imagine the rubber part of the o ring, the outside of it actually. It is the inside of the o ring that is lubricated. The outside of it is still rubbed on by the metal links that form the chain itself. So the inside would get the lube, and the outside would not (if no lube is applied). Assuming the o rings do not leak oil, the outside would not get any extra oil for lessened friction during operation. All that friction and tear are bound to make damage on the o rings exterior. After some time, I would assume there would be o ring failure due to cracking/breakage of the o ring seal. Then, I would assume there would be problems. So the reason for lubrication would be to reduce the coefficient of friction on the moving parts against the rubber, thus extending the life of the chain. I do know many people who will first clean the chain to make it nice and slick, then just smother it with a lubricant. What I do is use WD40 to clean out the chain completely (using a towel sprayed with the liquid). Then I take the bike for a spin to warm the chain up, and then apply a chain wax only to the in between the links. I do this very sparingly, and make sure I do spray directly in between the links and the metal o ring housings too. After application, I do a thorough wipe off with a rag/towel, to make sure the chain is clean on the outside. This way, the chain is clean, dirt does not cake on, and I still have the lube to ease the wear and tear. Now, all of the above is my theory. I hope there is someone out there that can read this and respond to add or correct. Thanks.

Understand your reasoning, and from personal experience, I am sure many of us notice that after you lube, you get the dirt attracted to the chain. But why would the manufacturers of chains want you to lube? Is it because they get money from lubricant makers for making us think that? Or is it because there is something behind it all? The above kid of sounds like a big conspiracy theory, and I tend to think that most answers to many questions are usually the simple ones. Also, I understand about the o rings inside the chain already being lubricated, but if you can imagine the rubber part of the o ring, the outside of it actually. It is the inside of the o ring that is lubricated. The outside of it is still rubbed on by the metal links that form the chain itself. So the inside would get the lube, and the outside would not (if no lube is applied). Assuming the o rings do not leak oil, the outside would not get any extra oil for lessened friction during operation. All that friction and tear are bound to make damage on the o rings exterior. After some time, I would assume there would be o ring failure due to cracking/breakage of the o ring seal. Then, I would assume there would be problems. So the reason for lubrication would be to reduce the coefficient of friction on the moving parts against the rubber, thus extending the life of the chain. I do know many people who will first clean the chain to make it nice and slick, then just smother it with a lubricant. What I do is use WD40 to clean out the chain completely (using a towel sprayed with the liquid). Then I take the bike for a spin to warm the chain up, and then apply a chain wax only to the in between the links. I do this very sparingly, and make sure I do spray directly in between the links and the metal o ring housings too. After application, I do a thorough wipe off with a rag/towel, to make sure the chain is clean on the outside. This way, the chain is clean, dirt does not cake on, and I still have the lube to ease the wear and tear. Now, all of the above is my theory. I hope there is someone out there that can read this and respond to add or correct. Thanks. That's what I've been doing and telling others to do for the longest time. The last time I bought a chain (DID 530) was 1996, and that was for my 91 FZR. It's finally starting to show signs of wear (I can almost pull it away from the sprocket). I'm sticking to my maintenance plan at that rate.

Good points ciaka. I think everyone has their own methods on how to handle the maintenance of their chain. Whatever works for the owner is what they should stick with.

WD40 all the way. Ive been using WD on countless chains for over 25 years with great results and IMO chain lube becomes a nasty, flinging, caking, grinding paste after it becomes imbedded with road grime. Not to mention Ive never lost an oring or prematurely slopped out a chain under my care. Chain maladjustment has torn up more chains than lubing preferences have by far. Im a believer that metal to metal mechanisms need some type of lubrication and will adjust chemicals in relation to duty. If taking short jaunts of 100 150 miles Ill use the WD, something more slippery/viscous like Duralube, or one of your bicycle type Teflon lubes. For extended tours Ill break down and use the Honda Lube or Chain Wax. Especially if rain is expected. Todays chains o/x rings are more durable than yesterdays orings and can handle most of the lubing methods/chemicals afore mentioned. I question using any degreaser to clean with and prefer a terrycloth rag with WD. (Just watch that rear sprocket. It has a way of reaching out and grabbing that rag with your fingers inside). I also wonder about the cleaning brushes because I feel it may push some grit past the Orings. (but I may be totally wrong there). With WD you dont have to worry about cleaning grinding pase anyway. Also heres a label from the WD site to possibly dispel some myths.

it appears obvious a lubed chain will last longer than a dry one. but is it necessary to lube a chain? probably "not really", if one doesn't mind replacing the chains sooner.

Good thread.

i agree with pretty much everybody posting on this. but for me i like how the bike sounds much smoother after a nice lubing. but what i havent seen anyone talk about is the rollers on the chain. it appears to be mearly a sleeve rolling on metal to metal. thats where i concentrate to get the lube when im lubing. try to get it under the roller sleeve. seems to make the chain much more quiet.

here is a thought: next time you get a chain replaced, or one of your buddies does... grind off the peened pins from one link then knock the side plate off with a hammer and chisel. Now when you remove that link see how much of the factory grease is still on the rollers... None... The factory o-rings do a great job of keeping lube on the rollers, but that lube does not stay there forever. Sad but true.

here is a thought: next time you get a chain replaced, or one of your buddies does... grind off the peened pins from one link then knock the side plate off with a hammer and chisel. Now when you remove that link see how much of the factory grease is still on the rollers... None... The factory o-rings do a great job of keeping lube on the rollers, but that lube does not stay there forever. Sad but true. Actually, the factory lube only lubes the pin which goes through the bushing being sealed by the o-rings. The roller rides on the outside of the bushing where the o-ring's are not located and the o-rings don't even touch, this is where you need to lube. The o-rings are only on the outer side plates, not the inner link. Go take a good look at your chain, then spin the roller with your finger, you'll see.

I have only lubed my chain just a hand full of times. Other than that its WD-40 and she's all good. O yea..... I've got a 99 and WITH the original chain. :boobies

i cant believe it hasnt been mentioned but kerosene kills o-rings. I'v pretty sure that WD-40 is not good for them either but I have used it and it seems to clean the chain very well. I just went into the garage to read the can but it does not give any warnings to not use on rubber.

WD40 all the way. Ive been using WD on countless chains for over 25 years with great results and IMO chain lube becomes a nasty, flinging, caking, grinding paste after it becomes imbedded with road grime. Not to mention Ive never lost an oring or prematurely slopped out a chain under my care. Chain maladjustment has torn up more chains than lubing preferences have by far. Im a believer that metal to metal mechanisms need some type of lubrication and will adjust chemicals in relation to duty. If taking short jaunts of 100 150 miles Ill use the WD, something more slippery/viscous like Duralube, or one of your bicycle type Teflon lubes. For extended tours Ill break down and use the Honda Lube or Chain Wax. Especially if rain is expected. Todays chains o/x rings are more durable than yesterdays orings and can handle most of the lubing methods/chemicals afore mentioned. I question using any degreaser to clean with and prefer a terrycloth rag with WD. (Just watch that rear sprocket. It has a way of reaching out and grabbing that rag with your fingers inside). I also wonder about the cleaning brushes because I feel it may push some grit past the Orings. (but I may be totally wrong there). With WD you dont have to worry about cleaning grinding pase anyway. Also heres a label from the WD site to possibly dispel some myths. Good post, I have always wondered about the effect on rubber.

It's my understanding that an o-ring chain does NOT require lubrication. I don't apply the greasy spray lubes for the reasons you stated. It attracts grit (which is bad) and it slings goo everywhere (also bad). My procedure is to wash the chain when I wash the bike. Then, with the bike on the stand, I liberaly apply WD 40 and wipe the excess off the chain with a rag. Of course, I you don't have an o-ring chain, you need to lube. This is very likely if you've replaced your chain and sprocket with race stuff.

The more I read on this, the more I believe it just being too lazy and not wanting to clean the bike! lol I don't like to either, but I do it! I have added some links from chain manufactures to support the lubing of chains for your reading pleasure. DID & RK don't even reference it one way or the other (Probably wants to sell more chains). If someone can add a link from a chain manufacture to support not lubing an O-ring chain, I'd like to read it! Probably won't change my mind, but I'll read it! http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm (http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm) http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance (http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance) http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html (http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html) http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/ (http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/) Scroll down and see what they have to say about WD40 on this last one!

The more I read on this, the more I believe it just being too lazy and not wanting to clean the bike! lol I don't like to either, but I do it! I have added some links from chain manufactures to support the lubing of chains for your reading pleasure. DID & RK don't even reference it one way or the other (Probably wants to sell more chains). If someone can add a link from a chain manufacture to support not lubing an O-ring chain, I'd like to read it! Probably won't change my mind, but I'll read it! http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm (http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm) http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance (http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance) http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html (http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html) http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/ (http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/) Scroll down and see what they have to say about WD40 on this last one! WD-40:hammer: - Ha Ha, good find! :thumbup :thumbup

The more I read on this, the more I believe it just being too lazy and not wanting to clean the bike! lol I don't like to either, but I do it! I have added some links from chain manufactures to support the lubing of chains for your reading pleasure. DID & RK don't even reference it one way or the other (Probably wants to sell more chains). If someone can add a link from a chain manufacture to support not lubing an O-ring chain, I'd like to read it! Probably won't change my mind, but I'll read it! http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm (http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm) http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance (http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance) http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html (http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html) http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/ (http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/) Scroll down and see what they have to say about WD40 on this last one! Good links :thumbup ! I'm going to have to cut my DID apart when I change it this winter. 11 years on one chain and many thousand miles, I'm interested in seeing what the wear is like.

The more I read on this, the more I believe it just being too lazy and not wanting to clean the bike! lol I don't like to either, but I do it! I have added some links from chain manufactures to support the lubing of chains for your reading pleasure. DID & RK don't even reference it one way or the other (Probably wants to sell more chains). If someone can add a link from a chain manufacture to support not lubing an O-ring chain, I'd like to read it! Probably won't change my mind, but I'll read it! http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm (http://www.ekchain.com/faqs.htm) http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance (http://www.tsubaki-rider.com/?type=maintenance) http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html (http://www.sprocketcenter.com/g/4153/chain-adjustment.html) http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/ (http://www.webbikeworld.com/t2/motorcycle-chain-lube/) Scroll down and see what they have to say about WD40 on this last one! Nice finds RTSR1 but you know this will stay quite the controversial subject. I think many of us are at a stalemate in relation to what we use but at least most of us think lubing is necessary. Very few are going to agree with this posted in the webbike world article. "Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains?" Also in reference to the webbike world article IMO Bel Ray super Clean looks like poop and who is the wBW Visitor "R.S." guy that runs WD40 in bearing race assemblys? :confused: On airplanes no less. :scared Let me run out and replace my wheel bearing grease with WD40. :crash :lol :thumbup:beer

Nice finds RTSR1 but you know this will stay quite the controversial subject. I think many of us are at a stalemate in relation to what we use but at least most of us think lubing is necessary. Very few are going to agree with this posted in the webbike world article. "Moral of the story is to not use WD-40 for cleaning motorcycle chains?" Also in reference to the webbike world article IMO Bel Ray super Clean looks like poop and who is the wBW Visitor "R.S." guy that runs WD40 in bearing race assemblys? :confused: On airplanes no less. :scared Let me run out and replace my wheel bearing grease with WD40. :crash :lol :thumbup:beer I'm assuming that you believe R.S. to be me. LOL It is not!:fact I know people will continue to do what they do. I'm just showing what the Man. says and how the chains are built, and that the o-rings do not protect the rollers as many believe. Just the pins and bushings.:beer :beer :thumbup

Well ive read all 7 pages of this lubey question. I dont think we've found a answer yet. Ive done both and both seem to work for me. The difference is apperance with wax and dirt and a cleaner looker chain with it oiled by wd or kerosine. I think really if you maintane it all the time and its not exposed to weather alot it doesnt matter. The wax is probably better for weathery conditions.

well living in the uk. as u lot know it all ways rain here .lol so i tend to lube mine up after ever ride and when ive cleaned my bike ,,but wouldnt it be nice not to lube it ,,then i wont get all that sticky crap over my nice clean wheels,lol

Well ive read all 7 pages of this lubey question. I dont think we've found a answer yet. Ive done both and both seem to work for me. The difference is apperance with wax and dirt and a cleaner looker chain with it oiled by wd or kerosine. I think really if you maintane it all the time and its not exposed to weather alot it doesnt matter. The wax is probably better for weathery conditions. I have to agree, even though this thread was resurrected, my input is a chain is a maintenance item, they wear out. I never believed in the waxy shain lubes. I simply cannot understand why putting a sticking compound on the chain is a good thing Keep it clean and WD40 all the way

hello everyone. I am a diesel mechanic, far from a motorcycle in know, but I work on heavy equipment which have track chains. I am not a chain expert but I know that O- or X- type chains all have seals, as most people know, and they are made of rubber/sillicon or something like that, and well like all seals, there not perfect and wont last forever. It only takes one seal to leak the oil out from one pin/bushing, and that pin/bushing will overheat and could cause a catostrophic failure. I'm not taking sides on chain lube, chain wax, or WD-40 the way i see it is any lube is better than none. at least a little lube will have a chance to get in behind a messed up seal. thats my opinion. chris

hello everyone. I am a diesel mechanic, far from a motorcycle in know, but I work on heavy equipment which have track chains. I am not a chain expert but I know that O- or X- type chains all have seals, as most people know, and they are made of rubber/sillicon or something like that, and well like all seals, there not perfect and wont last forever. It only takes one seal to leak the oil out from one pin/bushing, and that pin/bushing will overheat and could cause a catostrophic failure. I'm not taking sides on chain lube, chain wax, or WD-40 the way i see it is any lube is better than none. at least a little lube will have a chance to get in behind a messed up seal. thats my opinion. chris Welcome to the never ending debate! I agree that it only takes 1 O-ring failure to ruin a chain, but the fact is that the O-ring only seals the pin and the internal bushing and yes that should be good for the life of the chain. Another fact is that the bushing has a roller on the outside of it that contacts the sprocket that is not sealed, hence the reason for lube of some type. Pick your poison, boys!

I drink Red Bull and then pee on my chain - works like a charm!

I drink Red Bull and then pee on my chain - works like a charm! :confused: Did you adjust that thing yet? :lol

I drink Red Bull and then pee on my chain - works like a charm! :lol Just make sure you don't drink viagra ... it will "stiffen" the chain ! :flex:

:confused: Did you adjust that thing yet? :lol Yes Sir I did after you reminded me a second time. You will have to look at it again. It's better than i had it though.

Yes Sir I did after you reminded me a second time. You will have to look at it again. It's better than i had it though. Cool... I think we have a few lined up to do suspension settings. Nick, the young lady from Wilmington and yours if you want. Gotta start with the chain right, so we'll work it from there. And I've found my Grunge Brush and a new can of WD 40, so we can clean and lube chains. Might be able to ride sometime this spring :crash.

I use it simply because it is cheap, easy and I don't know for sure if letting it go won't cause a problem. The old saying an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure seems to apply.

i thought WD4D are not to use for lubbing the chain as it will destroy the o-rings???

i thought WD4D are not to use for lubbing the chain as it will destroy the o-rings??? I just installed a new chain on my FZR 1000 last week. The previous chain was cleaned with WD-40 and a Grunge Brush. I occasionally hit it with chain lube for long trips. The o-rings were intact and in good shape. I installed that in 1996, about 35,000 miles ago. :dunno

i thought WD4D are not to use for lubbing the chain as it will destroy the o-rings???did you not read the thread? :dundun:

i read this entire thread, and all it talked about was lubing for the chain's benefit. as everyone has mentioned, the chain has sealed o/x rings that have their own self-contained lube/grease. but lubing the chain for those seals isn't the purpose of lube, as i've understood it. it's not actually to protect the chain at all(as a primary function) since the chain is designed to already take care of itself. lube is to protect the teeth on the sprockets. the metal to metal contact and heat and friction from the drive chain and sprocket is what needs to be protected. otherwise the teeth can fail. i know someone who's had it happen and that's also what he was told by who serviced his bike. but as with most things, everyone has their own ways and everyone will have their own experiences. just thought i'd throw out what i've heard.

Interesting feed back guys. I guess it all depends on what you believe in and what works best for you. I think the actual and regular cleaning of the chain is the important thing. Probably, for those who lube put way to much on and that's what attracts the dirt and the excess cakes up on the sprockets. sorry for resurrecting the thread..but i'm searching about chain cleaning..I think that's exactly what happens overspraying lub will defenitelly cause the massive cake build up..and yes I heard kerosene works wonders when cleaning about to try it for the first time before my first track day. :thumbup

Kerosene works excellent. Kerosene is in WD-40 too. I use WD-40 first, rag clean. Soft brush. mild soap & water. Brush the teeth to remove debris. The with kerosene I brush out hopefully removing all loose crap on chain. To answer the thread. No. Chains are sealed atleast mine is. Abrasive debris will wear chain and sprocket. Debris will get into chain potentially. So I keep mine pretty clean, and then every other day go over it with a dry soft cloth. Stay pretty mint...

Yeah Chad, I'm starting to feel the same way after all these years of putting lube on the chain. I can't count the times I've had caked lube around the front and rear sprockets which is a pain to get and stay clean. The cleaning of the chain I still do, but after my own tests of not using the lube I'm sort of convinced it's not really needed and some of those lube companies are making some big bucks for something that's not needed. It seems like using the lube makes it harder to clean the chain and I've noticed when cleaning it back then all of the dirt and sand I would flush out of it after only 500 miles of riding. Now, after cleaning it with kerosene and not using the lube I get hardly no dirt out of it and the chain looks much better. what method doyou recommend on useing if i switch over to the kerosene method?as far as cleaning it and gettin all that old crap off.????do i just rub the kerosene on it?? thanks

the bling! I used wd-40 and lubed it with PJ1..next time i'll just use straight kerosene and see how much different it is from wd40 http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/2286000-2286999/2286136_22_full.jpg

..........I've never lubed a O ring chain....

great thread.... kerosene dosent damage o-rings, it EATS them......seen it first hand..... dont know which idiot will use WD-40 on an aircraft, but i know its excellent with rubber and at displacing water.....used it many times to coat marine engines before and after use at sea. and the sea is a highly corrosive place. once your o-rings are good, WD-40 is good to clean the chain, but not to lube it. WD-40 is not a high speed or high temperature lubricant.

Really. Never has eaten my rings, on 4 bikes, and I use it frequently. Kerosene has also water displacement properties, but I also know its jet fuel...:lol WD is good stuff. They list it rubber safe. Note- ...and I stand corrected, and have to come clean. I always thought WD 40 has kerosene in it, and said so on a few posts. It does not. great thread.... kerosene dosent damage o-rings, it EATS them......seen it first hand..... dont know which idiot will use WD-40 on an aircraft, but i know its excellent with rubber and at displacing water.....used it many times to coat marine engines before and after use at sea. and the sea is a highly corrosive place. once your o-rings are good, WD-40 is good to clean the chain, but not to lube it. WD-40 is not a high speed or high temperature lubricant.

I have always used the Teflon spray from Lowes. No lube. Never had any issues.

im a luber, i got 43,000 miles out of the stock chain & sprockets on my 2001 gsx-r 1000, i used wd-40 to clean and maxim chain wax for lube. i have since switched to kerosene for cleaning but continue to use chain wax or the motul brand lube.

great thread.... kerosene dosent damage o-rings, it EATS them......seen it first hand..... dont know which idiot will use WD-40 on an aircraft, but i know its excellent with rubber and at displacing water.....used it many times to coat marine engines before and after use at sea. and the sea is a highly corrosive place. once your o-rings are good, WD-40 is good to clean the chain, but not to lube it. WD-40 is not a high speed or high temperature lubricant. wd-40 has solevents in it, it is suppost to be hard on o-rings. your wrong about kerosene, why do most chain mfg's suggest cleaning with it? iv used kerosene 5+ years now and have had no problems, are you sure it was kerosene that you saw eat 0-rings?

great thread.... kerosene dosent damage o-rings, it EATS them......seen it first hand..... Then why does it say in THE OWNER'S MANUAL to use kerosene to clean the chain?

Well I haven't read the whole thread but I can tell you that lubing your chain reduces chain temperature on a chain that's went without lube for awhile. I've done temperature measurements with the IR gun and lube helps greatly. I'm not a fan of chain wax.

yes kero is the majour component of jet fuel..... yes the manual says use kero, yes kero cleans.... but o-rings that are exposed to kero for long periods i.e. submerged in, it loose their elasticity and eventually fail by breaking....... i know most of the guys on this forum are from the US, and a lot of u would have limited knowledge about diesel powered vehicles.....but in diesel vehicles a cheap fix for cleaning injectors in putting in a couple liters of kero in the tank with the diesel, but this comes at a cost, because if u do it too often, or add too much the injector o-rings, the fuel pump o-rings and the other rubber components of the fuel system eventually suffer damage prematurely....... personally i will clean a chain with kero, but i will not clean with kero and then leave it without lube...... BUT, just like WD40, i wont use it if i suspect that the o-rings are not fitting properly or they are wearing out because it will dissolve the lube the o-rings are meant to contain.

I clean mine with white spirit and lube with chain oil via a Scott Oiler. I've got over 24,000 miles out of my chain and sprockets so far. You need to keep the O Rings lubed. In the end, it's horses for courses. Cheers Malc

yes kero is the majour component of jet fuel..... yes the manual says use kero, yes kero cleans.... but o-rings that are exposed to kero for long periods i.e. submerged in, it loose their elasticity and eventually fail by breaking....... i know most of the guys on this forum are from the US, and a lot of u would have limited knowledge about diesel powered vehicles.....but in diesel vehicles a cheap fix for cleaning injectors in putting in a couple liters of kero in the tank with the diesel, but this comes at a cost, because if u do it too often, or add too much the injector o-rings, the fuel pump o-rings and the other rubber components of the fuel system eventually suffer damage prematurely....... personally i will clean a chain with kero, but i will not clean with kero and then leave it without lube...... BUT, just like WD40, i wont use it if i suspect that the o-rings are not fitting properly or they are wearing out because it will dissolve the lube the o-rings are meant to contain. Are you sure you're not thinking of cyclic aromatics (like benzene, toluene, or xylene) which will definitely swell o-rings (especially unprotected ones). This is why gasoline isn't a good solvent to use for cleaning chains. And I am pretty sure there are large numbers of diesel powered vehicles in the US .... And I call b.s. with what you are talking about when it comes to jet fuel ...

Kerosene works excellent. Kerosene is in WD-40 too. I use WD-40 first, rag clean. Soft brush. mild soap & water. Brush the teeth to remove debris. The with kerosene I brush out hopefully removing all loose crap on chain. To answer the thread. No. Chains are sealed atleast mine is. Abrasive debris will wear chain and sprocket. Debris will get into chain potentially. So I keep mine pretty clean, and then every other day go over it with a dry soft cloth. Stay pretty mint... :secret:Read a previous thread about WD 40 contents :secret:http://www.wd40.com/faqs/ (http://www.wd40.com/faqs/) .... "What does WD-40 contain? While the ingredients in WD-40 are secret, we can tell you what WD-40 does NOT contain. WD-40 does not contain silicone, kerosene, water, wax, graphite, chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), or any known cancer-causing agents."

Are you sure you're not thinking of cyclic aromatics (like benzene, toluene, or xylene) which will definitely swell o-rings (especially unprotected ones). This is why gasoline isn't a good solvent to use for cleaning chains. And I am pretty sure there are large numbers of diesel powered vehicles in the US .... And I call b.s. with what you are talking about when it comes to jet fuel ... i know what is kerosene and i'm not mixing it up......why would we put aromatics in a fuel tank? and as far as i know they dont sell those chemicals in fuel stations where i live...... there are a lot of diesel powered vehicles in the US, but the average US citizen prefers a gasoline powered vehicle, and hence not many are familiar with diesel engines or some of the quick fixes associated with them......... kero will damage o-rings if it is in prolonged contact with it....especially at elevated temps. why do u call bs on jet fuel????

i know what is kerosene and i'm not mixing it up......why would we put aromatics in a fuel tank? and as far as i know they dont sell those chemicals in fuel stations where i live...... there are a lot of diesel powered vehicles in the US, but the average US citizen prefers a gasoline powered vehicle, and hence not many are familiar with diesel engines or some of the quick fixes associated with them......... kero will damage o-rings if it is in prolonged contact with it....especially at elevated temps. why do u call bs on jet fuel???? There are aromatics in fuels already ... such as benzene in gasoline. As for the jet fuels ... I do not believe that kerosene is a component; I don`t think it has the right specs to be used in that high quality of a fuel ....

There are aromatics in fuels already ... such as benzene in gasoline. As for the jet fuels ... I do not believe that kerosene is a component; I don`t think it has the right specs to be used in that high quality of a fuel .... Actually jet fuel is just basically kerosene... A jet engine can run on much crappier fuel than a high compression piston engine, there is no octane requirement to prevent detonation, jet engines don't have a detonation problem. As long as the flash point is sufficiently low enough (and because the injectors vaporize it, it doesn't even have to be that low) and it doesn't foul the blades in the combustion section almost any fuel will work in a jet. Actually the JP-5 used by Navy jets is just kerosene with an additive that raises the flash point so high in liquid form that you'd have trouble lighting it with a match. The more you know.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel

Actually jet fuel is just basically kerosene... A jet engine can run on much crappier fuel than a high compression piston engine, there is no octane requirement to prevent detonation, jet engines don't have a detonation problem. As long as the flash point is sufficiently low enough (and because the injectors vaporize it, it doesn't even have to be that low) and it doesn't foul the blades in the combustion section almost any fuel will work in a jet. Actually the JP-5 used by Navy jets is just kerosene with an additive that raises the flash point so high in liquid form that you'd have trouble lighting it with a match. The more you know.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jet_fuel I stand corrected ....:thumbup

hi guys im new to the r1 family but have been riding for many years, i lube my chain whenever possible, never knew one can over lubed it. ive been using benzine to clean my rim, chain, swingarm and sprockets not drenching it but wiping it. on the rims it leaves a milky haze but polish with a soft cloth its amazing anybody else out there who has tried it or any bad views

Welcome to the forum..never used benzine .....got any bigger pics of your bike ???

htt[IMG]http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/envious958/00053-1.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/envious958/00050.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/envious958/00046.jpg

http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt260/envious958/00052.jpg

nice pics ....very clean bike ..no license plates on bike ?? not needed ? track bike?

hehe no plates ever!! no license disk either, cops have to catch me first, no track i use it to work and back, all my bikes the first that goes is the breadboard(plate holder)im still waiting to get chased by our cops on bikes it could be a laugh

Thats a different world you live in my friend ...I would nt be so lucky...more power to you bro....

hehe no plates ever!! no license disk either, cops have to catch me first, no track i use it to work and back, all my bikes the first that goes is the breadboard(plate holder)im still waiting to get chased by our cops on bikes it could be a laugh :dundun::dundun::dundun::confused::lol

Ha, I guess the United States doesn't have a monopoly on squids!

O ring chains hold the lube in withe the rings... sort of the whole point. The lube stays inside the rings and you only need to wipe the chain down with something like WD-40 to clean it and keep it from rusting. You can spray it with lube but it is not going to get under the O rings just like it does not get out. Years back this same question was posed to the head of Tsubaki (spelling) His answer was do not lube the chain. Wipe the bike down with WD-40 after washing.

O ring chains hold the lube in withe the rings... sort of the whole point. The lube stays inside the rings and you only need to wipe the chain down with something like WD-40 to clean it and keep it from rusting. You can spray it with lube but it is not going to get under the O rings just like it does not get out. Years back this same question was posed to the head of Tsubaki (spelling) His answer was do not lube the chain. Wipe the bike down with WD-40 after washing. Lube will still increase sprocket life, however.

Lube will still increase sprocket life, however. True but lubricants also attract matter into the sprocket teeth. Bottom line a clean chain no matter what build is the way to go....:dundun::)

My take is.... both Yankin and Xdonnie....are correct .....I've never lubed but keep my chain clean....

O ring chains hold the lube in withe the rings... sort of the whole point. The lube stays inside the rings and you only need to wipe the chain down with something like WD-40 to clean it and keep it from rusting. You can spray it with lube but it is not going to get under the O rings just like it does not get out. Years back this same question was posed to the head of Tsubaki (spelling) His answer was do not lube the chain. Wipe the bike down with WD-40 after washing. It's not the O-rings/inner bushings/pin your trying to lube. It's the rollers and outer bushing that's not sealed by o-rings that need lube.

Skeeter ...started this thread 2 years ago....some things never change....

It's not the O-rings/inner bushings/pin your trying to lube. It's the rollers and outer bushing that's not sealed by o-rings that need lube. And why do you think they need lube?

And why do you think they need lube? It's metal to metal wear. Why do you think chains don't need lube?

True but lubricants also attract matter into the sprocket teeth. Only if too much is applied, or it's a sticky type. The kind I use (Honda Chain Lube) dries to a non-sticky film after about 15 minutes, and doesn't attract trash. And it's been proven that its active ingredients (PTFE & Moly) reduce friction, heat, and wear.

..long thread ..simple terms...the "inside" of the sealed o ring chain is not servicable ...its considered sealed....the out side where it hits the sprockets are considered maintainable with lubrication...hope this helps..

..long thread ..simple terms...the "inside" of the sealed o ring chain is not servicable ...its considered sealed....the out side where it hits the sprockets are considered maintainable with lubrication...hope this helps.. :iamwithst and this just keep going on & on! lol If you believe you don't need lube on your chain, then don't. Just take a good look at your chain after you clean it, spin the rollers, look where the o-rings are and then decide! A lot of people justify no lube because they don't want the mess. You can over-lube and you can use junk for lube. You decide!

Dry sprays :dunno I use a dry graphite lube and it seems to work well without the stick. http://www.pitposse.com/lipechlu.html http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf_id=49-116&dept_id=121&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Car+Care+%26+Tools+-+Lubricants-_-49-116-_-X http://www.webmountainbike.com/prolinchainl.html Think of it like a good wax for paint. Slippery paint surface is good

Dry sprays :dunno I use a dry graphite lube and it seems to work well without the stick. http://www.pitposse.com/lipechlu.html http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf_id=49-116&dept_id=121&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Car+Care+%26+Tools+-+Lubricants-_-49-116-_-X http://www.webmountainbike.com/prolinchainl.html Think of it like a good wax for paint. Slippery paint surface is good sounds like good stuff

Dry sprays :dunno I use a dry graphite lube and it seems to work well without the stick. http://www.pitposse.com/lipechlu.html http://www.finishlineusa.com/products/teflon-plus-lube.htm http://www.classicchevy.com/product.asp?pf_id=49-116&dept_id=121&cm_mmc=Froogle-_-Car+Care+%26+Tools+-+Lubricants-_-49-116-_-X http://www.webmountainbike.com/prolinchainl.html Think of it like a good wax for paint. Slippery paint surface is good I like this stuff (in pic). I just started using it and my chain is quiet, clean and not sticky. I didn't check all the links above, but the price for this on Classic Chevy was about $14, plus I assume a shipping charge. I just bought a can 2 weeks ago at Lowes for just under $5. I use jet fuel for cleaning since it's just kerosene and I can get it in small amounts at work for free.

A109Driver, I just used that link for reference. It can be had for much less as you have found. Good fine though PB Blaster TDL (The Dry Lube) works well too, but leaves a white look. So if you have a nice gold chain and black sprockets it's tough to keep from getting white spots. It's a Teflon spray and costs $5-8 bucks at Lowes, Home Depot etc. https://www.expeditionexchange.com/blaster/ If you spray anything with any of those dry lubes on the pavement, garbage can lid etc. Let it dry and rub it.....it feels waxed and very slippery. I'd rather put something on my chain sprockets than nothing. A light film of dry lube that you can see :thumbup

Kerosene to clean. I use a 'Grunge Brush', as a cleaning tool. I lube every 200 miles. More if its raining. I use 'Dupont Teflon Multi-Use Dry, Wax lubricant.' Available at 'Lowe's Home Improvment' for $5.00 a can on sale. It leaves a clean look on the chain. Its used by many race teams as well. 22K on the origional chain and sprockets, '01 R1. http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d196/james1300/R1andfan.jpg

If you spray anything with any of those dry lubes on the pavement, garbage can lid etc. Let it dry and rub it.....it feels waxed and very slippery. I'd rather put something on my chain sprockets than nothing. A light film of dry lube that you can see :thumbup I place a few sheets of newpaper or a piece of cardboard behind the chain when I'm spraying so that no overspray gets on the wheel, tire or garage floor. I don't want the wrong thing to be slippery. The tire or garage floor would be bad. I agree that I want something on the chain. I didn't have time to go through the whole thread for the final conclusion on WD-40. Seems like it wouldn't stay on very long.

You want a chain to LAST? Follow the manufactures recommendations. I havent seen any chain maker recommend WD40 as a chain lube or cleaner.

It's so easy to misunderstand why or how someone said something on the I-net. I never said to spray the garage floor, tire or wheel. I used a few examples/things that might be around a garage like....a garbage can LID or some pavement. Neither need to be used , but was suggested as a test area for the "Non-lube" believers to test the "Slipperiness" of those dry lubes. Dry lubes are not going to attract dirt, grime etc....since once they set up and dry... they're dry.

It's so easy to misunderstand why or how someone said something on the I-net. I never said to spray the garage floor, tire or wheel. I used a few examples/things that might be around a garage like....a garbage can LID or some pavement. Neither need to be used , but was suggested as a test area for the "Non-lube" believers to test the "Slipperiness" of those dry lubes. Dry lubes are not going to attract dirt, grime etc....since once they set up and dry... they're dry. I understood what you meant. I was just saying that you made me think to make sure that none of that stuff gets on anything else. I knew you meant to use one of those items for testing. I was just saying that you wouldn't want it to land on the floor while spraying the chain. You did mention pavement. My wife used some crap on her hair one time in bathroom. When the overspray dried on the floor, anyone walking through there would land on their a$$. It was like walking on an ice rink.