Ducati threatens to not be in 2008 WSBK

I just read at superbikeplanet that Ducati announced that if the 1098 is not allowed in WSBK next year, they will not be racing. Besides sounding ridiculous, considering their results, what is the background with Ducati going with a 1098 instead of a 999? And why do they think they are so d@mn important that they can force the hand of WSBK? I say let them go, F 'em. Derek

Letting them go would be stupid.

francis batta (corona suzuki) has said if ducati race the 1098 he'll pull out! looks like they all need to sit down & discuss this. couple of years ago all the jap factories pulled out cos of the 1 tyre formula, they're nearly all back again now:fact

Letting them go would be stupid. That may be true - but what is the reasoning? Is it just because they are 'good for the series' as a manufacturer? I don't like seeing rules changed on the whim of Ducati, who already are doing great with LAST years bike. So why is it stupid? Derek

It's stupid because every I4 manufacturer is able to update and work with new technology. Forcing Ducati to use a 4 year old bike is asinine and stupid.

It's stupid because every I4 manufacturer is able to update and work with new technology. Forcing Ducati to use a 4 year old bike is asinine and stupid. Can't Ducati build an inline four?

It's stupid because every I4 manufacturer is able to update and work with new technology. Forcing Ducati to use a 4 year old bike is asinine and stupid. Can't they build a NEW 999 engine? Why 1098? Derek

Can't Ducati build an inline four? Can't the big 4 build vtwins? Can't they build a NEW 999 engine? Why 1098? Derek Because the series is done with production bikes. The 1098 is their production bike, not the 999. They don't even have the option of running the 999 next year as it will no longer be a production bike.

I say FIM will allow them by next year with the 1098.

I say FIM will allow them by next year with the 1098. Maybe... but they will allow the I4's some consessions if they do.

Pssshh!! Only flaming homos ride Ducatis!! :sing: :sing: :vanish

Can't the big 4 build vtwins? Because the series is done with production bikes. The 1098 is their production bike, not the 999. They don't even have the option of running the 999 next year as it will no longer be a production bike. Are you serious? You do realize that simply being a production bike doesn't mean that it is legal to race. There are many rules that govern a bike's eligibility, like for example, engine displacement. If Ducati can do that, then why can't Yamaha produce a 1300cc sport bike and race it?

i love ducatis but i like the idea of have a 1ltr cap on how big the engine can be. it forces more technology and not people just building a big enough engine to the limit that's allowed. I one of the things i don't like about the 1098 is that it needs to "cheat" with extra ccs to make comparable power to the r1 and other jap liter bikes.

Are you serious? You do realize that simply being a production bike doesn't mean that it is legal to race. There are many rules that govern a bike's eligibility, like for example, engine displacement. If Ducati can do that, then why can't Yamaha produce a 1300cc sport bike and race it? Eeeeexactly FiveOh. Every comment by YaoMatt implies that he does not understand how rules are made and how fair competition is made. It use to be the Vtwins were given concessions, like when 1000cc Twins like the TLR and RVT were allowed to race against 750s. But technology has improved in the Vtwin space, and concessions have been made in the rules without going to +1000cc. Ducati themselves have proved the WSBK rules have made it an even playing field (winning), while AMA rules have not (losing, pulling out and taking their ball home). So Ducati has the nerve to build a 1098cc bike with no rules in effect to make it legal, then demands that it be allowed from the WSBK committee? If I were WSBK, I'd be offended that Ducati thinks they run the show, not them. They seem to have this arrogant attitude, and I've had enough of it. I like the 1098, but it should have been a 999.

Pssshh!! Only flaming homos ride Ducatis!! :sing: :sing: :vanish :thumbup :stpd: and im with you guys, racing fuels technology putting a 1 liter cap on it is what fuels the technology such as the electronic throttles stacks, and all that other stuff. to hell with ducati, they are really not that special anyways....plus i think that the 1098 resembles the R1 a little too much...but its still not quite as pretty....:riding

Since the 999 is currently in the top two spots in Valencia, WTF are they bitchen about.. I say bubye now.. They'll be back before you know it.. And side note..when MOTOGP went to 800 cc they didn't pull out.. Sorry, they needed the extra cc's to compete on the street, now they want to force that on the track... Did anyone miss them at Daytona? (Other than Hodgson) Anyone?

on a sidenote is it true that motogp is gonna go back to 800cc limit for 2008? that's what one of my friends told me.

on a sidenote is it true that motogp is gonna go back to 800cc limit for 2008? that's what one of my friends told me. Moto GP has the 800cc limit this year... :fact

Moto GP has the 800cc limit this year... :fact o wow i'm retarded. why the lower displacement? is this similar to formula 1 where they are trying every which way to slow the bikes down? for some reason i thought motogp bikes had to have a street version also, but maybe i'm confusing it with wsb.

o wow i'm retarded. why the lower displacement? is this similar to formula 1 where they are trying every which way to slow the bikes down? for some reason i thought motogp bikes had to have a street version also, but maybe i'm confusing it with wsb. The GP bikes actually can't share a single component from a street bike. Fully prototype. What I didn't realize is that are still a ton of rules governing the construction of the bike, like which materials can be used to make the engine cases, crankshaft, etc. Pick up the book MOtoGP Technology if you are interested, it's awesome.

Eeeeexactly FiveOh. Every comment by YaoMatt implies that he does not understand how rules are made and how fair competition is made. It use to be the Vtwins were given concessions, like when 1000cc Twins like the TLR and RVT were allowed to race against 750s. But technology has improved in the Vtwin space, and concessions have been made in the rules without going to +1000cc. Ducati themselves have proved the WSBK rules have made it an even playing field (winning), while AMA rules have not (losing, pulling out and taking their ball home). So Ducati has the nerve to build a 1098cc bike with no rules in effect to make it legal, then demands that it be allowed from the WSBK committee? If I were WSBK, I'd be offended that Ducati thinks they run the show, not them. They seem to have this arrogant attitude, and I've had enough of it. I like the 1098, but it should have been a 999. :yesnod

A lot of the posted comments seem to share the same opinion, let Ducati leave. I'm going to have to go the other way on this. From what I have read in different publications, WSB allows Ducati to modify the 999 so much that it is almost a completely different bike than the street version. The other manufacturers are not allowed the same amount of modifications. Also different engine configurations should be the base in considering engine cc limitations. A 1000 cc V-twin will not make the same power as a 1000 cc in-line four. From what I have heard, Ducati is asking for the increase in cc's for their V-twin and to have to be held to the same modification limits as the other manufactures. I think that is fair. The argument why don't they just change to an inline four like the other manufacturers is understandable, but diversity in technology is what leads to break throughs, and of course the company was built on the charisma of V-twins. They would probably lose more fans from changing their engine configuration than from withdrawing from WSB. Just my $.02. Okay maybe $.05.

yeah but to let them modify a 1098 v-twin is stupid if it doesnt make the same power make the 999make the same power...keep it a level playing field or use a I-4. asscar is super stringent, if ford was like well were gonna use some big a@@ motor becuause we cant make the same amount of power as toyota......obviously nascar wouldnt allow it and would let them leave or comply. i dont watch nascar but a friend does and is always talking about it personally i hate it...anyways, all the cars have to be the same you CANT go to much, becasue then it wouldnt be a level playing field, if they want a v-twin and want to be the star of it they should make a v-twin wsb...my other $.02

A lot of the posted comments seem to share the same opinion, let Ducati leave. I'm going to have to go the other way on this. From what I have read in different publications, WSB allows Ducati to modify the 999 so much that it is almost a completely different bike than the street version. The other manufacturers are not allowed the same amount of modifications. Also different engine configurations should be the base in considering engine cc limitations. A 1000 cc V-twin will not make the same power as a 1000 cc in-line four. From what I have heard, Ducati is asking for the increase in cc's for their V-twin and to have to be held to the same modification limits as the other manufactures. I think that is fair. The argument why don't they just change to an inline four like the other manufacturers is understandable, but diversity in technology is what leads to break throughs, and of course the company was built on the charisma of V-twins. They would probably lose more fans from changing their engine configuration than from withdrawing from WSB. Just my $.02. Okay maybe $.05. I understand what you're saying, but remember a few years ago when some manufacturers were using 2 stroke engines with a 500cc limit, and others were using 4 stroke engines with a 1000cc limit? in theory they should be making equal power but the 4 stroke engines proved to be stronger. I have a video called "faster" which talks about the 2000-2001 motogp season and covers this topic. Eventually if your technology proves unable to keep up with current trends you must adapt to something else.

Ok..here's the thing that no one has mentioned.. Having their bike in WSBK is advertising.. And right now they're bitching because they can't advertise they're premier bike.. Anyone remember a few years ago..No Yamahas, no Suzuki's.. Heck back in 750 days Yamaha made a production bike just so they could race it..hell, so did Foggy!! So why should FIM allow Ducati to be any different..I just don't like the arrogance...Ducati lost points with me on this one.. By the way, the 999, on pole and in 2nd for wsbk.. Yeah, so "Un competitive." Flame on Duc lovers..

Can't the big 4 build vtwins? Because the series is done with production bikes. The 1098 is their production bike, not the 999. They don't even have the option of running the 999 next year as it will no longer be a production bike. The big four aren't the ones crying.

on a sidenote is it true that motogp is gonna go back to 800cc limit for 2008? that's what one of my friends told me. MotoGP is already at 800cc. Are you asking if they are going back to 990cc? If HONDA doesn't win they probably will.

I understand what you're saying, but remember a few years ago when some manufacturers were using 2 stroke engines with a 500cc limit, and others were using 4 stroke engines with a 1000cc limit? in theory they should be making equal power but the 4 stroke engines proved to be stronger. I have a video called "faster" which talks about the 2000-2001 motogp season and covers this topic. Eventually if your technology proves unable to keep up with current trends you must adapt to something else. During the 2003 season both 500cc and 990cc were run. I think that was done to give the manufactures time to run the 990 under race conditions before the mandatory switch over for 2004. I'm not sure about the 990 being stronger but it delivers the power in a more user friendly way. In FASTER Rossi talks about how violent the 500 was.

I've read that Ducati wants the displacement increase to cut cost, superbike had an article a few years ago talking about how much $ and how long the engine components last, and Ducati's were having to rebuild 3-4 more times more often ......FIM screwed up in the beginning by allowing the displacement difference between twins and I4s . I think they should allow the increase and limit the amount engines can be overhauled......

And here is the 'official' reasoning for Ducati wanting 1200cc, supporting Meanstreak, from www.superbikeplanet.com http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2007/Apr/070416-domenicaliint.htm Interesting, I agree with some, not all. Comments to come.... Derek

I read that this am too..and I too kinda felt for them...

Ducati wants 1200, the Japanese want 1000. Give them 1100 and see what happens. They don't have an 1198 or 1199 or whatever anyways, at least not yet.

I've read that Ducati wants the displacement increase to cut cost, superbike had an article a few years ago talking about how much $ and how long the engine components last, and Ducati's were having to rebuild 3-4 more times more often ......FIM screwed up in the beginning by allowing the displacement difference between twins and I4s . I think they should allow the increase and limit the amount engines can be overhauled...... 100% correct.... Ducati's main reason is money. It has become too expensive for them to race. They are not a huge company factory like the Japs. Ducati will never leave the v-twin configuration. I'm sure that they built the 1098 knowing that the FIM would allow it. WSBK is better with Ducati involved. The Jap bikes are heavily restricted. Ducati will get their 1098 allowed and the 4's will be allowed extra mods.

Ducati is just trying to make up performance in the street market. My R1 and other people's Japanese bikes can outrun Ducati's like they are 750s. They may handle better...but not by that much. From what I have read about the concessions Ducati is willing to make for this to go through.....I have no problem with it. If the I4s get to have more mods they will be fine against Ducati's Twins. I personally think the only reason why Ducati is doing as wells as they are in WSBK is because of Troy. You take Troy out of it and there will be a win here and there but no one will make a serious run for the championship.

Not true....The Ducatis are HEAVILY modified machines. It's all about money.

So I understand Ducati wanting power equal to the 1000s on the showroom. But on the other hand, nobody ever really buys a Ducati because of power. They typically buy it for exclusivity and style, and also 'lifestyle'. Style is what killed the 999 sales, not lack of power. If the new bike had the same 999 engine, it would still be sold out, in my opinion. They brought back the style and the single sided swingarm. That is all that was needed. Also, I think the maintenance schedule on the new bike is a big plus. Its just a pain to own a Ducati - something you give up to have that exclusivity. Before I knew the power numbers for the 1098, I wanted one. I still have the 06 R1 though. So I don't know, did they really need 1098 engine? And if so, why not make a 1200 if that's what they want in WSBK? More is better, right? As for Troy being a big factor, I believe Reuben Xaus, on last years bike, winning in Spain has put an end to that theory. Besides, JT has been the only Honda at the front - so does Honda need a bigger engine? And Kawasaki has never been up front, do they need their own rules too? Its tough. I like to see all the manufacturers. But as soon as you start mixing engine types, it is very difficult to tailor rules to make them fair. You know a 1000cc inline4 makes more power than a 1000cc twin, but engine power is not a simple formula that you can apply a few rules to and make it even. This has always been a problem with V4s, 3 cylinders, 5 cylinders... I am still on the fence on this one.... Derek

The Xaus comparison is a little off. Bayliss is riding last years bike also, injured. Xaus is riding at his home track in front of the home crowd. Bayliss won the last Motogp race of 2006, does that mean the Ducati was the best bike out there?

The Xaus comparison is a little off. Bayliss is riding last years bike also, injured. Xaus is riding at his home track in front of the home crowd. Bayliss won the last Motogp race of 2006, does that mean the Ducati was the best bike out there? I can't believe that Ducati hasn't further developed the Xerox bike this year. Xaus' bike is last years hand me down, without any new parts. Either way, they both are up front. If you have a crap bike in front of your home crowd, your gonna lose anyway. Maybe a decent rider will become a great rider in front of his home crowd, but you need a good bike under you first. The GP (non v-twin) Ducati last year was a really good bike. Bayliss rode with nothing to lose. A good combo. Anyway, I don't think I am understanding your post. What is your point? (not being an ass, looking for expansion) Derek

my understanding is the 1098 was only made becuase of next years change to allow 1200 twins, so i could understand they might be a little pissed at making a new bike then told its no good. i also read that the reason its 1098 is that is rolls of the tounge

i say let em go, f'em. Ducati shits me. The current 999 is so hevilly modified it aint funny, just to keep up with the jap bikes. Like many years back, the ducati used to race the 750cc jap bikes and now they gotta design a 1098 to keep up:rant , and its still doesnt make as much power as an inline four unless its extreemly moded. I hate ducs, f'n vtwin ass f'ing peace of dog shit. Sorry, but my farts sound better than a ducati going down the straight. Dont mean to flame all the duc lovers but just thought i needed let it out. :)

i say let em go, f'em. Ducati shits me. The current 999 is so hevilly modified it aint funny, just to keep up with the jap bikes. Like many years back, the ducati used to race the 750cc jap bikes and now they gotta design a 1098 to keep up:rant , and its still doesnt make as much power as an inline four unless its extreemly moded. I hate ducs, f'n vtwin ass f'ing peace of dog shit. Sorry, but my farts sound better than a ducati going down the straight. Dont mean to flame all the duc lovers but just thought i needed let it out. :) Big fan of the Ducs, are we? :) Isn't it getting too late? No decision yet. Ducati says they will pull out if they can't run the 1200, Corona Suzuki and Biaggi says they will leave for GP if they do. Seems like a bad situation. I didn't see Ducati complain when they were running the World Ducati Superbike series in 2004... Derek

i say let em go, f'em. Ducati shits me. The current 999 is so hevilly modified it aint funny, just to keep up with the jap bikes. Like many years back, the ducati used to race the 750cc jap bikes and now they gotta design a 1098 to keep up:rant , and its still doesnt make as much power as an inline four unless its extreemly moded. I hate ducs, f'n vtwin ass f'ing peace of dog shit. Sorry, but my farts sound better than a ducati going down the straight. Dont mean to flame all the duc lovers but just thought i needed let it out. :) Go back in your hole.... :lol Get over it already. :) p.s. Tell us how you really feel :lol

Go back in your hole.... :lol Get over it already. :) p.s. Tell us how you really feel :lol hmmm, nuh, i think i said enough. I got it out, it made me feel alot better:) :lol *cough* ducati sucks *cough*

Can't the big 4 build vtwins? Honda did and beat Ducati on its debut year (well with the help of Haga taking asprins) and its last year in the series before pulling out. Because the series is done with production bikes. The 1098 is their production bike, not the 999. They don't even have the option of running the 999 next year as it will no longer be a production bike. None of the superbikes in the WSBK or any of the local premier series (AMA for you yanks) are in anyway resemble their production counterpart besides the obvious look of it (even so...). When Honda built the VTR, they were under the impression that the rules were going to change in the following year to restrict the race bikes to kit-bikes. This is to reduce buffer between the privateers teams to the factory teams significantly. The rules were set and of course, the promoter Flamini being in favour of Ducati, scraped the rule at the end of that year. Yamaha left with disgust. They used the Haga excuse, but in reality they were pissed off since like Honda they have invested heavily on the kit bike concept. Honda stuck around since they won the series. However since the newer SP2s were built as a kit bike, Colin Edward's season started rather poorly and hence Honda lost the title (all credit to Bayliss though). Honda lost interest in the series after CE won back the title. Now as for whether the current rules are fair, I think it's currently fair across the board. The I4s are restricted in many ways. Especially with the engine parts. V2s are free to tamper in anyway they please. Besides, at 1000cc I don't think the I4 have that much advantage over the V2s. You still have to make the motorcycle turn and the V2s win outright on the corner drive out. Fact is Ducati wants the increase in the capacity simply because under the current rules, they are spending way too much money modding the V2 engine (though I think the real cost applies to the number of engines they need to replace over the whole season) to stay competitive (they've stated this). By increasing the capacity, they will have more default HP. But over time with more development, their HP will increase. What will happen is the repeat of the late 90s where the 750s simply had no hope against the Ducatis due to the capacity advantage. And when that happens, the series gets boring and the rules had to modify again to allow the I4 to catch up. Which I think is stupid. 1000cc should be the limit if WSBK is to have any reflection on the "real world" production bikes. I mean at 1000cc, you already lose your license in 1st gear. Imagine a sportsbike with 1200cc. Heck the R1 brandname won't exist anymore! I think Ducati is acting like a spoiled brat that will only play if he gets the better treatment. For sure losing Ducati will be the worse scenario, but they really ought to grow up. Their tantrum only make them look stupid. If anything I don't see how hard it can be for to slip their existing MotoGP V4 engines into their superbikes. Well of course this will mean the real world owners will have to replace the engine every 10,000kms but hey.. that's character right? :D

So I understand Ducati wanting power equal to the 1000s on the showroom. But on the other hand, nobody ever really buys a Ducati because of power. They typically buy it for exclusivity and style, and also 'lifestyle'. Style is what killed the 999 sales, not lack of power. Ouch... If anything I thought the 999s were gorgeous. Very unique. Dare I say the 1098 is the combination of the R1 lines and some of the CBR looks (aprticularly the headlight). The 916s (hash up of the Cagiva Mito and used some of Honda's NR ideas) were pretty, but nothing unique like the 999. The 999s had racing breed written all over it. I'ld rather have the 999 over the 1098 anyday :D

Ouch... If anything I thought the 999s were gorgeous. Very unique. Dare I say the 1098 is the combination of the R1 lines and some of the CBR looks (aprticularly the headlight). The 916s (hash up of the Cagiva Mito and used some of Honda's NR ideas) were pretty, but nothing unique like the 999. The 999s had racing breed written all over it. I'ld rather have the 999 over the 1098 anyday :D Well, surely, its subjective. I though the 999 looked like a diesel locomotive. All Ducatis have racing in their genes, so that is a given. Unique doesn't mean pretty. Let's say the 999 had a 'nice personality'. Either way, some liked the 999, but the sales figures didn't show it. Early indications of the 1098 sales show that its a hit, and its not even racing in the major series. The 999 was WSBK champion, and it didn't translate into more sales. Derek

Can't Ducati build an inline four? Uuu Humm Seems Stoner is doing pretty good with the V4 of Ducland Personally I dont see how the Big 4 and or Ducati, can continue with WSBK and MotoGp, it seems redundant to me

if you can't go buy the road version in a showroom it shouldn't be allowed to race, let ducati go to 1100 but no more my 0.02:flex:

if you can't go buy the road version in a showroom it shouldn't be allowed to race, let ducati go to 1100 but no more my 0.02:flex: right.. this is under the assumption you have $250,000 to spare? BTW this will prolly just get you the customer spec.

right.. this is under the assumption you have $250,000 to spare? BTW this will prolly just get you the customer spec. :confused: I am trying to understand how you ended up at $250,000 for the showroom stock version. Please explain. Derek

:confused: I am trying to understand how you ended up at $250,000 for the showroom stock version. Please explain. Derek Because that's how much it costs to buy one of those race bikes. The raceracing superbikes are in no way resemble what goes on the road. Sure you can bling your bike up with all the Ohlins and carbons you can find, but they are nowhere close to the stuffs they use for racing. I mean the 999R that you can buy off the showroom already has a nice AUD$50,000 price tag. If you want to seriously go racing you will probably have to spend another 50k just to avoid coming last. That being said, I just find the whole 'base on production racing' thing kinda silly. The only thing it's base on is "look" of the bike. But then even so, they kind of look different.

Because that's how much it costs to buy one of those race bikes. The raceracing superbikes are in no way resemble what goes on the road. Sure you can bling your bike up with all the Ohlins and carbons you can find, but they are nowhere close to the stuffs they use for racing. I mean the 999R that you can buy off the showroom already has a nice AUD$50,000 price tag. If you want to seriously go racing you will probably have to spend another 50k just to avoid coming last. That being said, I just find the whole 'base on production racing' thing kinda silly. The only thing it's base on is "look" of the bike. But then even so, they kind of look different. I don't know about that. Its true there are a lot of mods, but the basis for the bike is very important as far as basic chassis, engine and trans design. If the whole bike changes, then even today, it wouldn't matter what the basis of the Superbike was, a good team could 'mold' it into the same racebike. Does Kawasaki have a bad team of race engineers, or is there something wrong with their stock designs? Could Ten Kate take ANY bike and make a winner out of it with Toseland riding? Not sure. Its hard to tell. But in order to sell bikes on the showroom floor, which is why companies go racing, the basics must remain between the stock and racebike. Which is why it was suggested that Ducati be allowed to go to 1098 in Superbike and no more. Derek