What kind of a steering damper ?

When I bought my R1, at the beginning of this year, I thought I'll ride it without anything on it the first summer; just plain... But the most important piece according to most hardcore riders is, the steering damper. I got the strongest reactions during the whole time (you're nuts, too dangerous, etc.). Now, the question is, which one is the most efficient/practical for a 99-R1 ? Any suggestions ?

For normal street riding, a steering damper isn't needed.

a steering damper works like a shock absorber on your car.. except on a bike it's attached to the steering. it dampens (ie softens, reduces) sudden steering jots that are assosciated with running over a pothole or a rock or something that would make the steering jerk out of your hands. that's the simple version of what it does, anyway. if you're not doing a lot of wheelies or hard riding in the twisties, it's better to save your $400. if you do want one, Scotts and Ohlins are the two most people seem to like.. and any of these shops (all forum sponsors, iirc) can give you a good rate.. www.kyleusa.com www.tobefast.com www.ema-usa.com

Depends what is hard street riding . Sometimes you don't have to push yet if hit a bump that you didn't see at mid corner......well I had to change undi few times so I decided to get one from forum bro. If you ride fairly hard then damper is good investment from what I hear from here and thing is once they get it they won;t ride without it, so there you go.

To answer your question: Scotts and ohlins seem to be the most popular. I have a Matris and it is awesome. I got a good deal on mine so I bought it. I was looking at scotts. Good luck.

I went with this one..........Street or track, it's worth every penny. :fact

I agree with r1-superstar

I have the WP on my 98 R1 , and it"s a big diffrent , but very good:2bitchsla

Hi, I also have the WP on my 98, works fine. I got the model with 32 clicks, cockpit model. Plenty of option on how to set it. Greetings Mike.

As mentioned in another topic, LSL, good and cheap

i'm not a pro or anything, but i think that a steering damper is a good idea, and if your just riding on the street just get one, ya know, you know unless your racing i don't think that the average person would be able to tell the difference between an ohlins and a hyperpro, so if nothing else just get a cheap one i think they all prevent the dreaded tank slapperss.....

Originally posted by 02RedR1 so if nothing else just get a cheap one i think they all prevent the dreaded tank slapperss..... So you think that putting a damper on is assurance that all tankslappers are prevented, or that any old damper is as effective as any other?

i THINK that most dampers will prevent most tankslappers in most situations, however, i can see where a racer would want to buy an ohlins, but... for the type of riding i do, and the amount of money i was trying to spend i ended up with the toby....and about the other part, i was trying to say that any damper is better than no damper, what do you think????

Originally posted by 02RedR1 i THINK that most dampers will prevent most tankslappers in most situations, however, i can see where a racer would want to buy an ohlins, but... for the type of riding i do, and the amount of money i was trying to spend i ended up with the toby....and about the other part, i was trying to say that any damper is better than no damper, what do you think???? That's not quite what you said. In most cases, for normal street riding, the money is better spent elsewhere. But a lot of times people who really won't benefit from a damper want one as a panacea, and a cure all for the wrong types of problems.

Because im from Sweden i prefer the Öhlins damper. But infact if you need a damper 60% is cool effect and the rest is for use. That is of course if you use your bike on the road and not manly on the race track. I didn't have a damper on my R1-2001 and I missed one for sure. When giving it after a corner at the track the front wheel wanted to see the sunlight, and when it felt the track again it did wobble a bit. Now I have a 2003 R1 and before I got the bike I bought a damper (Öhlins) and i don't want to fell what I felt again on the track. My opinion! Mike

Why would being from Sweden favor the Öhlins? Scotts is made in Sweden by Öhlins. Öhlins applies the Scotts name to the top plate, and ships the dampers to Scotts in the US for distribution and manufacture of the damper mounting kits. Looky, I even included the little ".." thingies over the "O". :D

I had a STORZ-21 on my FZR1000, and I loved it. But since I got my R1 I wanted the best so I spent the extra $ and got an OHLINS. :D

Originally posted by Magnus I had a STORZ-21 on my FZR1000, and I loved it. But since I got my R1 I wanted the best so I spent the extra $ and got an OHLINS. :D So then you have to settle for the inability of the Öhlins damper to treat undesirable oscillatory events differently from intentional rider steering control inputs. Why one would choose that purposefully is perplexing. Were you simply unaware at the time of purchase of this flaw in the Öhlins design?

Nicely put... the argument continues...:eek:

Originally posted by KneeDragger77 Nicely put... the argument continues...:eek: But I have yet to see an effective counterargument to refute it

I emailed the racing guys at Ohlins and asked about using the rotary damper on road race bikes. They said that they only use the rotary damper on dirt bikes. They had no experience with the rotary damper on road race bikes. I don't like how the Scotts is in the way for tank removal. I won't run a Scotts damper on any of my race bikes or track only bikes. I'll use the Ohlins for that. I always set my Scotts damper stiff enough to dampen any headshake I get from a particular track. That is more than stiff enough to handle any tankslappers I might get. Scott

Originally posted by winders I emailed the racing guys at Ohlins and asked about using the rotary damper on road race bikes. They said that they only use the rotary damper on dirt bikes. They had no experience with the rotary damper on road race bikes. I don't like how the Scotts is in the way for tank removal. I won't run a Scotts damper on any of my race bikes or track only bikes. I'll use the Ohlins for that. I always set my Scotts damper stiff enough to dampen any headshake I get from a particular track. That is more than stiff enough to handle any tankslappers I might get. Scott Ohlins also only directly markets and promotes the Scotts damper as a dirtbike damper. Was this fact, or your dislike of the mounting location which requires the damper be removed to allow fuel tank removal, intended as a refutation to my comments re an advantage of the Scotts over all other damper products available? I ask only because neither the above stipulated fact nor your own personal preference (or that of any number of other individuals) refutes my assertion that the independant high and low speed circuit adjustability of the Scotts design is an advantage to designs that lack this functionality (which as far as I know, is all other designs on the market). Perhaps there is some other not yet disclosed refutation out there that does so, but this one doesn't. However, I respect that you have a personal preference that differs from mine, we all have personal preferences for one reason or another. If this wasn't intended as a refutaion, please forgive my misunderstanding of the intent of your reply.

Eyespy, I was just providing some more information and perspective. I'll add some more.... If the design of the Scotts is superior, why do all MotoGP, WSB, and AMA SB teams use conventional dampers with the most common choice being the Ohlins unit? I understand the features of the Scotts damper. I have owned at least five of them going back to 1998. I'm just not convinced that the Scotts damper offers any real functional advantage over the conventional Ohlins damper. The low speed circuit is what has to handle light headshake so it has to be set as stiff as a conventional Ohlins damper to damp that out. Maybe there is an advantage when a full on tank slapper occurs. In all my years of riding and racing, I have never actually had one of those. In other words, since I set my dampers up just stiff enough to handle any headshake I might be getting, not to damp out tankslappers. It can't be that we know something the professional world does not know. maybe we don't know something that they do.... Scott

Originally posted by winders Eyespy, I was just providing some more information and perspective. I'll add some more.... If the design of the Scotts is superior, why do all MotoGP, WSB, and AMA SB teams use conventional dampers with the most common choice being the Ohlins unit? I understand the features of the Scotts damper. I have owned at least five of them going back to 1998. I'm just not convinced that the Scotts damper offers any real functional advantage over the conventional Ohlins damper. . Maybe there is an advantage when a full on tank slapper occurs. In all my years of riding and racing, I have never actually had one of those. In other words, since I set my dampers up just stiff enough to handle any headshake I might be getting, not to damp out tankslappers. It can't be that we know something the professional world does not know. maybe we don't know something that they do.... Scott Scott, where I see it differently from you, from a physics perspective is where you state, "The low speed circuit is what has to handle light headshake so it has to be set as stiff as a conventional Ohlins damper to damp that out". My contention, which is based not only onmmy own personal experience, but on the applied physics, is that light headshake is not best handled by the low speed circuit, but rather, by the high speed circuit. That a particular headhshake event is light, means that the amplitude is light, not the frequency. The frequency is higher than normal steering movements, and I contend that it is high enough to call into play the high speed damping circuit. Onlu if that contention is incorrect would the Scotts high and low speed damping independance not be an advantage.

Originally posted by Eyespy Scott, where I see it differently from you, from a physics perspective is where you state, "The low speed circuit is what has to handle light headshake so it has to be set as stiff as a conventional Ohlins damper to damp that out". My contention, which is based not only onmmy own personal experience, but on the applied physics, is that light headshake is not best handled by the low speed circuit, but rather, by the high speed circuit. That a particular headhshake event is light, means that the amplitude is light, not the frequency. The frequency is higher than normal steering movements, and I contend that it is high enough to call into play the high speed damping circuit. Onlu if that contention is incorrect would the Scotts high and low speed damping independance not be an advantage. Eyespy, I believe your contention is wrong and I will explain why. The Scotts steering damper low speed circuit has some crossover to the high speed circuit. When you dial out damping on the low speed circuit, the high speed circuit will get stiffer. When you dial in damping on the low speed circuit, the high speed circuit will get softer. When riding at the track, if I get some headshake, I will dial in a bit more low speed damping. This always gets rid of the headshake. Since dialing in more low speed damping has reduced the high speed damping somewhat, I have to conclude that the low speed circuit is the circuit that is solving the headshake problem. Scotts recommends leaving the high speed circuit alone. Scotts also say that the high speed circuit is there to control sudden or severe jolts. That sounds like a full on tank slapper to me. They say the low speed circuit controls low to medium speed movements. That sounds like headshake to me. Scott

Originally posted by winders Eyespy, I believe your contention is wrong and I will explain why. The Scotts steering damper low speed circuit has some crossover to the high speed circuit. When you dial out damping on the low speed circuit, the high speed circuit will get stiffer. When you dial in damping on the low speed circuit, the high speed circuit will get softer. When riding at the track, if I get some headshake, I will dial in a bit more low speed damping. This always gets rid of the headshake. Since dialing in more low speed damping has reduced the high speed damping somewhat, I have to conclude that the low speed circuit is the circuit that is solving the headshake problem. Scotts recommends leaving the high speed circuit alone. Scotts also say that the high speed circuit is there to control sudden or severe jolts. That sounds like a full on tank slapper to me. They say the low speed circuit controls low to medium speed movements. That sounds like headshake to me. Scott Interesting, Scott. I have taken the opposite approach with equally favorable results. I have left the low speed knob dialed out, and dialed in the high speed knob from the stock setting. This eliminated all headshake I would get such as comming hard out of turn 1 or cresting turn 6 at WSIR, or comming out of the The Bowl at Streets on the rough pavement surface, for example. suspension set-up includes 15mm raised at the rear, forks raised 11mm in the triples, 35mm front sag, 25mm rear sag, on a bike that is already very prone to headshakes in it's stock form. The damper is what has made the difference. EDIT: Scotts recommends leaving the high speed circuit alone. Actually, they recommend leaving it alone until you have some experience with the damper. The inference there seems apparent.

Eyespy, Actually, Scotts say this about the high speed knob: "Our initial setting is normally the best, as we test each unit before shipping." If the high speed circuit was the proper one to use to eliminate headshake, shouldn't it be the one you could change on the fly??? And what would the purpose of the slow speed circuit be?? I've had the Scotts damper on VTR1000F's, ZX-9R's, and now a 2002 R1. The low speed circuit is the one that I have always used to eliminate headshake. Scott

Originally posted by winders Eyespy, Actually, Scotts say this about the high speed knob: "Our initial setting is normally the best, as we test each unit before shipping." Scott That's only part of what they say about the high speed knob. Here is more on what they say about it, icluding a prominent statement of this being a key feature not found on other dampers, and some tips on how to go about adjusting it. http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/attachment.php?postid=217785 I am sorry, I could not get the image to post directly, so you have to click on the link. Your point about the on the fly adjustability has merit, but I always suspected they did it that way as the setting of the slow speed damping is less likely to lead to a mishap, in that it's setting changes are not as critical to the function of the device as is the high speed circuit. It takes a more deliberate act to change the high speed circuit with a flat head than it does to change the low speed circuit merely by turning it. IE, incorrect settings of the low speed circuit are not of the same product liability exposure potential as that of the high speed valve adjustment. It seems to me lawyers are always involved somewhere in the chain, unfortunate as that may be at times. However, I will conceed that the light headshakes we are talking about are probably less of a high frequency oscillation like I originally thought, and more of a lower to medium frequency oscillation as you have argued. In light of that, I have decided to reconsider my stance on the issue. I plan on returning my high speed valve to the factory setting (which on "dimpled" versions of the road damper is 1.5 turns out from full seated, and make on the fly adjustments with the low speed valve and see how this manages the headchakes.

Who knows....maybe the frequency of the headshake I have experienced on my bikes is much lower than what you experience on your R1. I don't know what the crossover frequency is, I don't think I have ever hit it on one my bikes. If I have, I did not notice it. All I know is that I have never had to adjust the high speed circuit to cure headshake issues on my bikes. Scott

Originally posted by winders Who knows....maybe the frequency of the headshake I have experienced on my bikes is much lower than what you experience on your R1. I don't know what the crossover frequency is, I don't think I have ever hit it on one my bikes. If I have, I did not notice it. All I know is that I have never had to adjust the high speed circuit to cure headshake issues on my bikes. Scott Scott I don't know if your reply was posted before or after I edited mine. At the time I added the edit, which is the last paragraph with the concesion, your post was not in my browser.

Eyespy, I had not seen your edited paragraph with the concession. Let me know what you find out after you make the changes. New data usually leads to new information and that adds to knowledge! Scott

Originally posted by winders Eyespy, I had not seen your edited paragraph with the concession. Let me know what you find out after you make the changes. New data usually leads to new information and that adds to knowledge! Scott Yes, that is true. My bike is idle for awhile, I will might not get it back onto the racetrack until the end of Feb, middle of March. :eek: :cryin

The extra money is well worth it. The Ohlins is great.

Originally posted by Cyclonus The extra money is well worth it. The Ohlins is great. What extra money? Street price on both is about the same.

http://images.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/41976/110400/02_yamaha_r1_48-vi.jpg

Originally posted by LiquidSilverR1 http://images.fotki.com/v11/photos/4/41976/110400/02_yamaha_r1_48-vi.jpg I see you have the DiGi and the Scotts. You tryin to copy me or something? Hehe, j/k. I have both also. How do you like those pre-load adjusters? You get them from Dan Kyle?

Originally posted by Eyespy I see you have the DiGi and the Scotts. You tryin to copy me or something? Hehe, j/k. I have both also. How do you like those pre-load adjusters? You get them from Dan Kyle? Nope, got them from Mike McCoy @ www.tobefast.com those guys are awesome!!!

Liquid, those are not the LP's that they show on the website are they? B

OHLINS worth every cent' oh and Eyespy, you mentioned the money is better spent else where (for street riding), but you mentioned that you had a motorbike prone to headshake (be it track or street) and the dampner fixed it.... now, we dont experience headshake through street riding? why did we buy an r1? what did i miss?

my opinion. scotts best one with out a doubt heard bad things bout ohlins like leaks and stuff

ALL steering dampers will work. It is just a question on adjustments(how many you want) and $ Toby dampers are the most cost effective. I had a Toby on my 02 R1. I now have a Hyperpro on my 04R1. I am not a fan of rotary dampers like scotts or GPR. But prefer piston types like Toby Hyperpro or Ohlins. SO to you is just to pick one that you like because they all do the same thing effectively. everyone is going to have their own opionions on which one is better. As the saying goes opinoins are like assholes.....everybody has one! Just pick one that you like and your pocket book can handle and whichever one you pick I am positive will be more than fine!

which ones are easiest to install ( no drilling)

My Scotts damper has Ohlins stamped on it, unlike the Ohlins the Scotts has a regular damping adjustment and a high speed adjustment.

on my 02 r1 there was no drilling for the Scotts. I believe I would have had to do some modifications for the Ohlins

"I now have a Hyperpro on my 04R1." beavisr1 About time I heard from a HyperPro user :thumbup I know I love the looks but I haven't had any condition to tell how well it works :sing: and don't really want to:riding I also prefer the stock install location on these.