Pilot Power 190/55 on my '07 R1

G'day all, I just fitted up the new pilot power 2CT with the 190/55 profile onto my '07 R1 and have taken some measurements. When I removed the old pilot power 190/50 I measured the diameter at 617.5mm. This was with very little tread left, only about 1/2 to 1mm. The new pilot power 2CT measures in at 639mm, 21.5mm taller! The tread depth is about 5.5mm, so even if the old 190 had full tread it would still be 11.5mm taller. This raises the rear end by about 5mm (10/2), so should help dramatically with turn in. The profile is also much steeper than the 190. It looks a lot like the 180/55, so I expect side grip to be better too. I have gone one tooth down on the front end so my wheel is a little further back than stock (1/2 a link I guess), and I have measured the gap between the new tyre and the swing arm at about 16mm at the bottom. The gap looks about the same all around, so I don't see any clearance issues. I haven't ridden it yet, but I'll post after I do to give my impressions. Geoffro After a few rides on the new tyre I can honestly say that it is a little bit better than the 50 but not by a huge amount. The bike turns in a bit easier, but I'm not sure if it's because of the profile or the fact that the flat spot from the old tyre is gone. Probably a bit of both I guess. The side profile is definately steeper and can hold a lot more lean angle. I'd normally be to the edge of the 50 series on most rides, but these new 55's still have virgin rubber on both edges. Overall I'd say that they are better and worth the extra cash. Geoffro

Thanks for posting this. Happy riding.

This is good. I wanted to get that setup with my bike. I heard that with the 190/55, one might run into clearance issues. Also, if one would go -1 tooth on the front sprocket, there may be extra chain left over. So, what I am understanding is with the -1 front sprocket there is no clearance issues with the 190/55. On the list...

You won't have clearance problems with a 190/55, even with stock gearing. At least, that's what I've heard from someone who is doing it. However, due to the small chance it could expand at high speed and make contact, I choose to run a -1 front sprocket. Also, the R1 is geared to the moon in stock config, and the very tall 190/55 will only amplify this.

...Also, the R1 is geared to the moon in stock config, and the very tall 190/55 will only amplify this. Does this mean the bike won't have shorter (quicker) gears? How about the speedo, will it still read accurate, well, as accurate as stock is. I wanted to get the -1 front sprocket so the bike could be quicker and I wanted to get the 190/55 pp 2ct because I didn't want to waste soft rubber on the street.

Does this mean the bike won't have shorter (quicker) gears? How about the speedo, will it still read accurate, well, as accurate as stock is. I wanted to get the -1 front sprocket so the bike could be quicker and I wanted to get the 190/55 pp 2ct because I didn't want to waste soft rubber on the street. A taller tire will offset some of the effect of switching to a -1 front sprocket. Going -1 in the front is about like going up 2.5 in rear, so if you run a 190/55 tire, it will be like you only went up 1.5 in the rear. I don't know, it might not be that severe, but you get my drift. Does that make sense?

i love the 2CT's on my '08 R1!

A taller tire will offset some of the effect of switching to a -1 front sprocket. Going -1 in the front is about like going up 2.5 in rear, so if you run a 190/55 tire, it will be like you only went up 1.5 in the rear. I don't know, it might not be that severe, but you get my drift. Does that make sense?[/quote] Got it. It will still increase acceleration, just not as much as staying with the 50 profile. As long as I don't rev slower.

Can you shim the R1 rear shock?

I ran a 190/55 on the rear of my 03 and liked it much more than the 50. Front end stayed planted better and turn in was more stable.

I have recently fitted a set of Power race with a 180/55 rear having been on standard 2ct's. The handling is a bit different which I am guessing is more to do with the change in rear profile than any raising of the rear. Having got used to them I now like the feel they give, and the grip is great. However I am going on a 3k tour in Sept so will need to change back to 2ct's before I go and am considering a 190/55 rear. I already run with the front 5mm lower so I am wondering if I would need to reduce some or all of this if using the 190/55. Advice would be much appreciated.

I have recently fitted a set of Power race with a 180/55 rear having been on standard 2ct's. The handling is a bit different which I am guessing is more to do with the change in rear profile than any raising of the rear. Having got used to them I now like the feel they give, and the grip is great. However I am going on a 3k tour in Sept so will need to change back to 2ct's before I go and am considering a 190/55 rear. I already run with the front 5mm lower so I am wondering if I would need to reduce some or all of this if using the 190/55. Advice would be much appreciated. I'm also running a 190/55 and have the front dropped by ~5mm. I love it--steering is quicker, slow-speed handling is improved, and the bike doesn't run wide as much as it used to on corner exit. A side benefit of the taller profile is a better ride. Go for it!

A taller tire will offset some of the effect of switching to a -1 front sprocket. Going -1 in the front is about like going up 2.5 in rear, so if you run a 190/55 tire, it will be like you only went up 1.5 in the rear. I don't know, it might not be that severe, but you get my drift. Does that make sense? No, it's actually the opposite. Putting a higher profile rear tire on is the same as adding to the rear sprocket or subtracting from the front. :thumbup

No, it's actually the opposite. Putting a higher profile rear tire on is the same as adding to the rear sprocket or subtracting from the front. :thumbup No sir. With all due respect, it's actually just as I stated in my original post.

No, it's actually the opposite. Putting a higher profile rear tire on is the same as adding to the rear sprocket or subtracting from the front. :thumbup No sir. With all due respect, it's actually just as I stated in my original post. Would love to clear up this disagreement cause it does make more sense to me that an increase in rear wheel/ tire hight would be the same as adding teeth to the rear sproket. ??? Also, since I am about to make the switch to a 55 in the rear should I drop my front end by raising fork hight in the tripples? I want to set the bike up for the track as best as possible. Experienced Advise please? :thumbup

When you go to a 55 profile on an 07, using a 16T front puts it back to near stock gearing. Without it your gearings is longer. I.e +1 front or -2 in the rear. Geometry is a funny thing. When you go to a taller rear tyre you automatically raise the back. Thus slightly changing the front geometry. It also puts more weight on the front so your sags change front and back. Therefore, any time you change heights, even as little as 2mm fork protrusion your sags will change. I.e initial spring crack will be easier on the front and harder on the rear in this particular case. Early on when I started messing with geometry a 1mm drop would make the front want to tuck. With the additional weight, my sag had also changed where it was too low in the stroke- but I didnt figure that out straight away. I then made a change 1mm higher then stock. The front wouldnt bite and it also had a tendency to run wide. This is a combination of a couple of things. -weight on the front tyre statically (fork protrusion) -weight on the front tyre dynamically (sag) -Rear sag was a higher number (softer initial spring crack) and allowed more rear weight transfer. These 3 things combined made it use more front tyre to clip apex's. I.e hold it on lean longer and use more to actually hit the apex and required earlier turn in points. Once it hit, crack the throttle and it would unload the front. The rear was squatting (sag and swing arm angle). roll on the gas hard and it would run wide. Even head shake. Any time you make a geometry change, you have changed the static geometry and weight balance (Derr?!). Your dynamic weight balance and control will also change. If they arnt set in the first place, changing geometry and getting a gain is a coincidence! To throw a spanner in the works, I may run more rear ride height when going to a Ntec tyre for example. Why, the taller rear tyre flattens out the swing arm angle. Then I will make a fork change mainly to get my preferred weight on the front tyre so it bites how I like it combined with the stability im chasing. These preferences change from road to track as I no longer ride like an idiot on the road (i.e trail brake till my knee's on the deck to pass). Any additional fork protrusion will slightly change swing arm angle. Specifically, on the 07/08 they have a workable amount of trail so static changes to the fork can be made with great results. I.e they are a flexible chassis to start with. In the case of the 04 which lacks a bit of trail, dropping the forks isnt always a good idea for fast road riding. You might find your picking up the front end with throttle to stop it from tucking. Then you find the rear squats when your hard on the gas. Or you might be running 30mm fork sag on the street to keep it higher in the stroke. Problem is, wind the wick up and the front end wont bite. You panic, shit yourself and freeze. There was a thread on here about 04 sags and someone mentioned 30/30 was a flat chassis. I didnt say anything as different people ride differently. Some push a lot of corner speed, some point and shoot, some trail brake excessively, some dont know how to ride at all. To throw another spanner in the works, the 06 R6 doesnt like rear ride height with the ntec. It already has a lot of swingarm angle and the front end lacks trail. Its still a workable chassis but requires a different approach to the above 2 examples. Basically, what I am saying- there is no hard and fast rule with geometry. But these are the guidelines I use: Change geometry, check your sags Always test on a particular stretch of road/track Balance your comp and rebound, changing sags can change rebound (hot) and comp changes how it moves through the stroke along with spring. Dont change sags or geometry on worn/flat spotted tyres. If fresh tyres arnt available, make sure atleast the profile is good. Once new tyres go on, slight changes may be needed. Geometry changes can mask rider inability (no offence but none of us are pro's). You can spend weeks, months or even years messing with your bike and chase your tail but the number 1 problem with bikes is the person riding it. Best of luck with your testing