Very serious about oil? Read this...

Here's the facts:fact http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html

Remember, 10w-40 oils contain a lot of VIIs which tend to shear in your transmission, so I believe 10w-40 oils should be avoided. The above quote is taken directly from that web page, and yet every motorcycle I've owned has specifically called for 10w40 in the manual. Boy, now I'm really confused...:dunno

Much of that guy's opinion there than fact...

Some good info also, though, such as the websites for several oils (Rotella, Delvac, Delo, etc.).

The above quote is taken directly from that web page, and yet every motorcycle I've owned has specifically called for 10w40 in the manual. Boy, now I'm really confused...:dunno Either you didn't understand him, or you purposefully took it out of context. Here is what he is saying... When coosing an oil for your motorcycle, Synthetics are probably superior to conventional oils, particularly those with extremely long chained modifiers using VII (Viscosity Index Intesifiers). "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine." You will get better service from avoiding conventional automotive oils. The will easily shear in our high RPM motors where the oil is also part of the tramsmission lubrication. Read it in it's entirety.... it's good information if you choose to use it. Most importantly is to change you oil as often as needed to aviod oil breakdown - you decide on when that is... Jim

Myself, I use Shell Rotella T full synth 5W-40 (and a Purolator PureOne filter) in all my bikes...

Myself, I use Shell Rotella T full synth 5W-40 (and a Purolator PureOne filter) in all my bikes... Have used the same combo many times in many different bikes with great results. Shell's web page even has good info in the FAQ section about using Rotella in motorcycles.

Either you didn't understand him, or you purposefully took it out of context. Here is what he is saying... When coosing an oil for your motorcycle, Synthetics are probably superior to conventional oils, particularly those with extremely long chained modifiers using VII (Viscosity Index Intesifiers). "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine." You will get better service from avoiding conventional automotive oils. The will easily shear in our high RPM motors where the oil is also part of the tramsmission lubrication. Read it in it's entirety.... it's good information if you choose to use it. Most importantly is to change you oil as often as needed to aviod oil breakdown - you decide on when that is... Jim Remember, 10w-40 oils contain a lot of VIIs which tend to shear in your transmission, so I believe 10w-40 oils should be avoided. You can't use 10w-30 because of the friction modifiers. This doesn't leave much. Commercial 15w-40 oils are a good choice, because they have relatively few VIIs which are the more expensive shear-stable sort. This quote is a direct reading from that page. I doubt very much I misinterpreted it as you stated. It clearly reads that 10W40 oil should be avoided, as well as 10W30. Thus, leaving commercial oil 15W40 to run. To add to this, I called several 1-800 numbers on the back of Mobil1, Valvoline, and Shell 15W40 (diesel) motor oils, and they absolutely told me to avoid putting these oils in my bike. All 3 manufacturers. I know people here do it, and I am not starting an oil war. Just putting out my .02 out there.

I don't think it's accurate at all to say all 10w-40's are blah blah blah... One example is Amsoil 10w-40, recommended for our bikes. They have testing that shows how well it holds up to viscosity under shearing forces.

Remember, 10w-40 oils contain a lot of VIIs which tend to shear in your transmission, so I believe 10w-40 oils should be avoided. You can't use 10w-30 because of the friction modifiers. This doesn't leave much. Commercial 15w-40 oils are a good choice, because they have relatively few VIIs which are the more expensive shear-stable sort. This quote is a direct reading from that page. I doubt very much I misinterpreted it as you stated. It clearly reads that 10W40 oil should be avoided, as well as 10W30. Thus, leaving commercial oil 15W40 to run. To add to this, I called several 1-800 numbers on the back of Mobil1, Valvoline, and Shell 15W40 (diesel) motor oils, and they absolutely told me to avoid putting these oils in my bike. All 3 manufacturers. I know people here do it, and I am not starting an oil war. Just putting out my .02 out there. I'm going to stand by my statement because I directly quoted the article as follows (and a direct conflict from what you state above)... "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine." Read the article! "Typically" is not synonymous with "always". Motorcycle developed oils (like from Motul, etc. do not contain much (if any) VII package - so any of those in a 10W40 are very probably NOT on the list of "do not use" because of VII packages. That was the point - don't use those conventional automotive weight oils which were designed for automotive use - NOT for motorcycles! There are alternatives... But you interprit it the way you wish... it's obvious to anyone who reads the article with some thought that the dude is making a point to not use conventional automotive oils, and that those developed with VII packages are very bad in that they are not shear stable (death for high reving bikes which rely on the same oil as a lubricant in their transmission). Of course, you could feasibly use those oils with the VII packages, but you'd have to change them very often if you want to avoid the issues that go along with them (breakdown of the viscosity). As I can recall (did not go back to verify), I believe the change interval with such oil would be something on the order of 500 mile intervals. That would render those oils as relatively expensive when compared to the better synthetics which are devoid of those VII packages. Regarding you comment about calling Shell and what they told you... (you said above: "Shell 15W40 (diesel) motor oils..." Shell DOES NOT make a 15W40 synthetic Rotella (diesel) motor oil - the 15W40 is a conventional desel. I'm not surprised they told you to not use it. That is NOT what I (or anyone should) use, nor do I, anyone I know of, nor in that article make such a recommendation. If anyone were thinking of using a Shell alternative, they should choose the Synthetic Rotella, which is 5W40 - not 15W40. I can't speak for any of the other oils you mention, but you got the Shell one wrong, and I assume you may have done so on the others as well... For the very best in oils, I would proibably consider one of the M/C specific synthetics as being optimal. for me, I change oil every 3,000 miles - so I am going to stick with the Shell Synthetic Rotella-T. Do whatever make you happy....

I don't think it's accurate at all to say all 10w-40's are blah blah blah... One example is Amsoil 10w-40, recommended for our bikes. They have testing that shows how well it holds up to viscosity under shearing forces. Correct... it isn't accurate (and the article he points out uses "typically", meaning not ALL). Just use the information with common sense and some investigation. From what I can tell, the Amsoil 10W-40 product ought to damn good.... Jim

Have used the same combo many times in many different bikes with great results. Shell's web page even has good info in the FAQ section about using Rotella in motorcycles. Yea... I saw that too (Shell's web-page on the subject). Sorta fly's in the face of comment that Shell states not to use it (but I think that is because they were making that statement about the conventional Rotella which is a 15W-40 desel oil). I've got more than 50K miles on bike with that combination and I'm very happy with the results (as is at least one M/C race mechanic who was highly impressed with the wear - or lack of it - properties using that combination).

I'm going to stand by my statement because I directly quoted the article as follows (and a direct conflict from what you state above)... "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine." Read the article! "Typically" is not synonymous with "always". Motorcycle developed oils (like from Motul, etc. do not contain much (if any) VII package - so any of those in a 10W40 are very probably NOT on the list of "do not use" because of VII packages. That was the point - don't use those conventional automotive weight oils which were designed for automotive use - NOT for motorcycles! There are alternatives... But you interprit it the way you wish... it's obvious to anyone who reads the article with some thought that the dude is making a point to not use conventional automotive oils, and that those developed with VII packages are very bad in that they are not shear stable (death for high reving bikes which rely on the same oil as a lubricant in their transmission). Of course, you could feasibly use those oils with the VII packages, but you'd have to change them very often if you want to avoid the issues that go along with them (breakdown of the viscosity). As I can recall (did not go back to verify), I believe the change interval with such oil would be something on the order of 500 mile intervals. That would render those oils as relatively expensive when compared to the better synthetics which are devoid of those VII packages. Regarding you comment about calling Shell and what they told you... (you said above: "Shell 15W40 (diesel) motor oils..." Shell DOES NOT make a 15W40 synthetic Rotella (diesel) motor oil - the 15W40 is a conventional desel. I'm not surprised they told you to not use it. That is NOT what I (or anyone should) use, nor do I, anyone I know of, nor in that article make such a recommendation. If anyone were thinking of using a Shell alternative, they should choose the Synthetic Rotella, which is 5W40 - not 15W40. I can't speak for any of the other oils you mention, but you got the Shell one wrong, and I assume you may have done so on the others as well... For the very best in oils, I would proibably consider one of the M/C specific synthetics as being optimal. for me, I change oil every 3,000 miles - so I am going to stick with the Shell Synthetic Rotella-T. Do whatever make you happy.... Dude, you keep telling me to read the article, and yet every quote I am pasting here comes directly from that article. I am misinterpreting nothing. I am reading it verbatim. So, how can you tell me these are my ideas? Look under the bold print heading MOTORCYCLE OIL in all those paragraphs. I agree synthetics are better, hell I personally run Mobil1 4T 10W40. Mut I know what I am reading.

And this came from the article too... "Synthetic oils made from pure PAOs and/or Diesters typically have very few VIIs, so these oils are far less subject to viscosity breakdown due to shearing of the VII package. As a result, synthetics are far more stable in a motorcycle engine." So my point is that you can't quote one line and imply that the guy is saying stay away from all 10W-40 oils. There is more to the article than just your one quote. If you read the entire article, you'll understand what he is saying. ...and what is up with the "call" you made to Shell regarding their 15W-40 desel oil? Did you get that right too?

Her's another quote from it... "Mobil-1 automotive oils all contain small amounts of moly - about 100 to 200 ppm. This can cause clutch slippage in some motorcycles. I've only heard of this being a problem in Honda Shadows."

The above quote is taken directly from that web page, and yet every motorcycle I've owned has specifically called for 10w40 in the manual. Boy, now I'm really confused...:dunno Every motorcycle I've owned has also come with a warning against using automotive oils... (and desel oils with a CD specification) - also to avoid Enregy Conserving oils...