Knee Down From Now On, YOU Can Do It!

Just read in Genreal Discussions, a post by Juttsr1 about his first clutch Wheelie on his '02 and technique. That's one thing I have never been comfortable with doing is wheelies however, I scrape the road everywhere! One of the best ways to gain confidence is to read 'A Twist of the Wrist' by Keith Code. This explains the science behind riding and why the bike will stay upright. What gave me the confidence to lean over that far was the statement '..any modern day sports bike is capable of leaning over far enough for knee down, way before it arrives at any safe lean angle. The next roundabout, YEAHAA!!! Another important thing is to get off of the bike, it feels a little awkward at first but does make a difference. If you go in to a corner fast, under braking, when you tip in, you will feel all your weight over the front end, pushing on the forks. IT doesn't feel good or safe, does it? Now try this: Assuming your are entering a right handed corner, put your left legs ham string muscle in your seat (not your butt) and with your left heel on the (left) foot peg, push down with your heel. Move your body down to the righthand side of the tank using your forearm as a second point of anchor, Look across the corner to the point of exit (not whats in front of you ( this is important to maintain the same line through the corner)) as you tip in, you will need to put a little more pressure with your heel on the outside foot peg. Now, as you tip in, push on the right hand handle bar, gently at first to tip her in. Second important note, whilst the bar in your right hand will be pressured into your right hand (because you are counter steering) do not grip the bar. Ditto the left hand bar. Grip lightly with your first finger and thump and let the bikes handle bars move. Why? here goes: Most of the time, as you tip in to a corner, you tense, go tight on the bars and the position on the bike. Any bumps and lumps in the corner are transfered to the rest of the bike by YOU holding so tight onto the bars, making it unstable. If you are loose on the bars, unbelievably, only the handlebars will move in your hand. The next thing you will not is the bike is not over so far for any given corner speed. You have transfered the center of gravity and made the bike more stable at the same time. The ultimate gain is, the point where yuo have maximum lean, (bike parts scrping the road) is now higher than it was when you were 'sitting on' the bike!! Give this a try and see how you get on, Second lesson on this subject to come if anyone wants it!!!!! :thumbup

you made some valid points. Exactly what I do. I recommend the "twist of the wrist" also to everybody. You forgot to mention one thing though, you wont be great until you can be at full lean and still look back and give the guy behind you the middle finger. (Much like a certain #46 on a 500cc 2 Stroke can do) Sweet!

Good post! I don't know if it's something wrong with me but when I go hard into a corner and the leaning is fairly OK.. I accelerate hard out of the corners just to make the rear slid and make the rubber on the tyres curl.. I do it with control.... I think :cool:

USing Dunlops by any chance? I find that Michelin High Sides, Err High sports are all or nothing grip. Dunlops seem to be more forgiving. I used to slide out of corners until I shit myself one day at Donnington Park!!:D

Like the Dunlops, try Bridgestone BT-010's on the street. Awesome R1 tire.

yes I too use dunlops. I've seen too many guys crash on Michilens. not that they arent a good tire, but after using Dunlop for so long, I guess I bias to them. I'm almost through with my 208's on the R-1, after which I'm going to 207 ZR or 207 RR.

207 and 208 GP's are the ones, these use Slick carcuses and Grade D Slick Rubber, Awsome! The 207 RR uses the road carcus with the slick rubber, a lot more stable for straight line usage....

-SpeedFreak :rock

Originally posted by JJman One of the best ways to gain confidence is to read 'A Twist of the Wrist' by Keith Code. This explains the science behind riding and why the bike will stay upright. What gave me the confidence to lean over that far was the statement '..any modern day sports bike is capable of leaning over far enough for knee down, way before it arrives at any safe lean angle. :thumbup I couldn't agree with you more JJ. A couple of seasons ago, I had a chance to do Levels 1 and 2 at Keith Code's Superbike School at Laguna (cost me large but it was worth it). Before the courses and books I was always average at the track and the street... after the school, all my friends could not believe the difference. Go drag your sliders! :rock

I've read Twist of the Wrist II... more oriented towards the basics, many readers of both said that this book should in fact be the first one to read. You learn alot in that book about SR (Survival Reactions) and how to control/avoid them. I recommend it 9/10

:thumbup

the survival reactions was a very interesting subject, another which was very interesting was the wide vision. It really does work! The biggest difference for me was relaxing on the bike however, I think you have to be on the track to really work and appreciate this. After reading this book and with the bike still totally standard (other than Dunlop 207 GP's) I clocked 53 second laps on a track day at Brands Hatch. The superbike boys do it on the $250,000 Superbikes in 47 seconds!! IT is a big difference but not as big as road cars and formula 1 cars, for example!!:thumbup

What on earth do they put into those bikes that cost 250,000$? Is that on the bike alone notwithstanding the computers they use and all that shiz to improve laptimes?

Keith Code's school is a great way to go and the best first-time-on-a-track school, but for the real thing ya gotta go to Fast Freddy. Freddy and the Boys show you how to do it all. Trail braking is Day One. That's where I finally got my knee down. Here's a pic of me at the school with Jeff Haney behind me on his 929 trying to show my dumb ass where the race line is..:confused:

You are in utah?

Yeah, St George...

Nice Piccy, It's funny though, don't you think? You think (me included) you are gonna end up nice and tight to the apex and end up way out there! The Race bikes end up being so expensive because of the individual development cost of parts. Take a GSXR 750 Super bike for example. it has not got a 'road' swing arm on it and a large aluminum radiator too! The development cost has to be spread across a few bikes...:fact

Yeah i would love to be able to drag my knee all day long. I can get my boot scrapers wearing like crazy.I was doing well the other day and finally got the knee down for the 1st time:rock , Untill i had a slide and crapped myself......and now i just dont have the confidence to try again....It just feels weird having your body hanging off the side like that. I guess that it is something that you have to get used to. I will admit that it is an awesome feeling.

Hello A question : I always push down the inside foot peg before the apex of the corner . Is it wrong ? (excuse my english!)

you've got it backwards, you should be weighting the outside peg. In theory weighting the inside peg shouldnt be as bad as it seems, because you are still altering your center of gravity to nearly the same place as where it would be with the outside peg. In practice though, in order to weight the inside peg you have got to have some funky body position goin which sounds like it could be disasterous to say the least...

Originally posted by mercurial you've got it backwards, you should be weighting the outside peg. In theory weighting the inside peg shouldnt be as bad as it seems, because you are still altering your center of gravity to nearly the same place as where it would be with the outside peg. In practice though, in order to weight the inside peg you have got to have some funky body position goin which sounds like it could be disasterous to say the least... No, COCO is right. Weighing the inside peg mid corner will tighten up the line (same with rear brake). If your hanging off position is correct, you should have no problems weighing either peg at will. The only reason to weigh the outside peg is for rear tire traction. Weighing the outside will put more top pressure on the rear tire which in-turn will give more grip on exits (the bike will want to stand up as a side effect) or if you spin up the rear too much you can control it by weighing the outside peg. The inside peg is strictly for tightening up your line or helping the rear tire spin up easier.

Everyone has a theory about how to ride fast. Many make a living "sharing" their particular theory. I am all for this. It improves our breed. As I've stated before in this forum (and I don't think I'm alone on this), there is nothing worse than a poser on a sportbike, especially an R1. All that being said, the most that I can figure out about the subject after 25+ years of riding is what makes for SLOW riding. Here goes, in no particular order: lack of understanding about countersteering not looking ahead, WAY ahead braking far too early accelerating far too late lack of balls just my 2c, actually more like a nickel... :D

I have a video where you can see me knee down all a long turn an whith my left arm in the air "thumb up", the matter is very long (5000 k), whith very poor cuality( digital video from a photo camera). Next Monday I´ll go to JARAMA circuit whith some friends and we will take some pics and videos.If you want, I´ll post them here

Interesting debate, I push on the inside handle bar and outside footpeg to get me through the turn. This is alot easier to vary than using the inside foot. Also, if you are pushing on the inside foot, what happens when the peg touches the floor?:yesnod

Some words about what I do (en english, that's not very easy for me !!! We turn on the right. I always enter in the corner on the front brakes that I release slowly. While this, I push on the right peg (inside) and I get off of the bike. When I'm in the apex, I push on the left peg (outside) and I increase the power. I dont know if it's the best way ... When the peg touch the road, that's do nothing special,just a noise...

OK Coco, with you now. You now it's funny but some times people ask me how I do something (on the bike) and I have to go and do it before I know!! It's just I have spent much time over the last couple of years on trackdays:cool: You do pretty much the same as me but Im pushing on the outside peg before tipping in...

Hello guys! I live in Malaysia and down here informational stuffs like the Kieth code books are unheard of.I woul;d really,really appreciate it if any of you could tell me how I can get my hands on one of these books and if any of you can actually mail it to me,that would be really nice.Just tell me how much and how do I pay you and trust me,I'll do it.Thanks

Hello I leave in France and I have just bought those books from http://www.bn.com. I have receive them 2 days later by Fadex ! The shipping cost is a little expensive but it's kuick. cheers Coco

another way, www.amazon.com ;)

OK... Now that we're countersteering, hanging off, weighing the pegs, and looking far ahead through the turn, there is one more very important thing to do: point our shoulders. If doing a right-hander, point your right shoulder to the front. On left-handers, do the left. It is amazing how much better the turns feel when you do this! It also allows you to look ahead easier because your shoulder is out of your helmets way. This is another one of those "small" things that make a "huge" difference!

Hello I have ride all the week-end long, using the outside peg. I'm OK with that. I have also begin to read "the twist of the wrist 1 & 2". Very good books. Cheers coco

Nice one! Glad it worked for you. Maybe we can start the next session soon!!:D

JJman do you ride on the street like in your avitar?

No, Not as hard. The picture was at a track in France two summers ago... :cool: