Trackday Tyres

Hi All, After converting my Road R1 to Trackday only, I would be interested in comments/recommendations about Trackday only tyres. I have used 207rr's (had one controlled slide at Cadwell (not from my skill - more luck I expect), then Michelin Pilot Sport Cup's - both great on road and track. Now have Pilot Race 2 - soft - which seem also great but only last a couple of track days. (the rear) I guess obviously the stickier you go the less wear you get but am I going to far for grip ? I mean how far do you go. I don't consider I push it too hard - well didn't untill I came off ! Comments ?

pirelli's supersoft frount, soft rear. 120f r 180

Pep-02r1, How many track days do you get out of them ?

I use Pirelli Supercorsas, SC2 back AND front. My AMA buddy tells me its becoming a very hot set up amongst the pro's, too. Minimal sacrifice in front grip, but way more life, and much more dependable performance as the tire wears/heats. Haven't had a single front-end slip in 5 track days.

BRBJackson, The Pirelli's Diable Corsa and SuperCorsa's seem to be getting top votes. Thanks for the info,

Just watch you don't go too soft... Supercorsas start to rip up after 8 laps or so, so at the end of a trackday session they might be kippered...

Liam, To soft ? Not a problem I normally suffer from :D :makeout :makeout I know what you mean though. I don't think I go quick enough to need super soft tyres like Pilot Race, Super Corsa's etc etc, so I will try the trusted 207rr's again or maybe Diablo Corsa's - 180 or 190 rear.., probably 180... We shall see. Thanks for the tip

try going to a race meeting at club level. find out who the top runners in the superstock series are, then go and buy a set of their second hand tyres. i say the top runners because they will only use the tyres for one meeting, guys lower down the order use them for two/three meetings due to cost. that way you will be able to try out various types of tyre, at knockdown cost. expect to pay between 40-80 quid for a set. also get some advice off them with regard to pressures and compounds etc. i found on my R1 that supercorsas/rennsports were the best option, running an sc1 front at around 29psi and an sc2 rear at about 30-31psi was good. they warmed up a lot quicker than the michelins(pilot race) and gave me more confidence than the 207s. i have been told recently that if you run sc/rennies in road compounds they last better than race versions, and give comparable levels of grip. apparently the reason is they are designed to heat up and cool down regularly,ie road use, whereas the race version are designed to heat up, give their best and then die. i haven't had chance(or the money) to try this out so don't take it as red ok. the last set of sc's that i ran lasted three hardish track days(inc cadwell) but i did feel a noticeable lack of grip when hard over on the right(the most used side)towards the end of the last day.

i forgot to add that if you do get a set of a racer they will be 180 rears. i haven't found any of them that use 190 rears(yet). what sort of times are you doing round cadwell, is that where you low sided?

Revvin, Times round Cadwell - no idea - not got hooked on Lap Timers yet. I low sided at Pembrey. Here's some spicey stuff from Dunlop Yes I've heard the one about 180's being easier to turn than 190's trouble is it's not true. The "Roll Rate" i.e. the speed at which the lean angle changes is governed by the steering geometry of the bike and by the gyroscopic effect of the rear wheel. The gyroscopic effect depends on the rotating mass, it's effective diameter and the rotational speed of the wheel. Given that the mass of the wheel/tyre unit is actually dictated more by the wheel than the tyre size and that the difference in rotational speed is negligable, then what is important is technically known as the "section height" of the tyre, which controls the "Radius of Gyration" . The bigger the "Rg" the more gyroscopic effect is generated i.e. the more stable the gyroscope of the rear wheel is and of course the more stable it is, the more difficult it is to turn. Section height of 180/55 = 99mm. overall diameter = 630mm Section height of 190/50 = 95mm. overall diameter = 622mm Tread Profile Shape of 180 on a 6" is flatter than 190. So if someone can show me how the bigger diameter tyre with a flatter tread profile is easier to turn I'd be very interested to know, because that would defy the laws of physics which last time I looked weren't variable, which is why they're called "laws" rather than "rules" - Hmmmmmmm! Incidentally if we made a 190/55 it would have a section height of 104.5 mm giving an overall diameter of 641mm which would definately be more difficult to turn, as it would make the rear wheel gyroscope even more stable.

yeah i've heard all that kind of stuff before. i think there are two reasons people think 180s turn in quicker than 190s. firstly with the higher overall diameter it lifts the back end very slightly, which in turns makes the bike turn that little bit quicker. and secondly because its all in their mind. riding a bike, like a lot of things, is very phsychological, so believing in something can usually make it true. very probably a highly disputed point by some, but i think its true and therefore it is! ;)

Revvin, highly disputed point by some, but i think its true and therefore it is! I went from knackered 207rr's (190/50) at Cadwell to 180/55 Pilot Sport Cups and I would swear I noticed a difference riding out of the paddock - maybe it was a different shape tyre but it felt that the bike steared from tha back more. So I have stuck with 180's untill Steve at Dunlop mentioned the 180 doesn't work on a R1. He's the only one though, so I still have a 180 207rr ready to go on. A mindfield of confusion, some say the 180 has a bigger contact patch lean't over.. some say you will have less ground clearance (not really a prob).. Some say 190/55 is perfect - Dunlop doesn't agree - they don't do a 190/55 We shall see how the 180 207rr feels.

another thing with the talk about gyroscopic effect, the wheel being more stable etc, only works if you are actually trying to turn the wheel. on a bike the only wheel which turns is the front, and only slightly to pitch the bike into the turn. there is a difference between turning and rotating. the 180 having a higher overall diameter makes it more stable in all occasions, irrespective of the bikes attitude, ie whether its full upright or at full lean. the rear wheel always tracks the same path, its rotating but it certainly isnt turning. if the rear wasnt centred in the swingarm, you would notice bad handling traits, it(the bike) would turn in quicker on one side but would be a pig to turn the other way. that would be when the said stability could cause a problem. eyespye commented that the best tyre for the track was the 190/55, perfectly fitting in with the higher back end making it easier to turn and also showing increased stability. kneedragger also has a thread out at the moment about suspension, and it states some of the problems that might be causing handling difficulties. check that out as it shows a reason for dodgy handling as a poorly aligned rear wheel, a good example of the laws of physics working against us. now i havent re-read this thread as i felt that my brain might hurt if i did, so if it makes no sense at all, my names not revvin, its...

Revvin, Believe me I wish I hadn't asked and just put the tyre on the tyre suppliers recommend at the track days i.e. a 180. To much info - brain overload !! :eek:

:lol ...and i was just getting started as well! oh lord( ;) ), just noticed the cadwell tyre post, must've between mine last time. everybody that i have spoken to runs a 180 rear for racing on R1s. all the guys that use dunlops that i asked use 180s so its interesting that dunlop say they dont work. i always run a 180 for normal and track day use and have never found any problems with it. the only time i use a 190 is if im going to be doing a lot of motorway riding and i might stick a part worn on for the journey. if you ever get up to oulton for a track day drop me a line before you come, if im free ill come and watch. :thumbup

I use pirelli supercorsa SC-2's in my races....they are great tires and usually last a couple hard weekends at the track with tire warmers..... I also gave the dunlop d208gp A's a try and really like them as well....they seem to tip over quicker than the pirellis due to their profile...but suspension adjustments will have to be made going from tire to tire so if you get comfortable with one try not to change unless you have to