Yamaha R1 question...........

Hi, I am new to the forum but have really enjoyed reading some the forum posts from the Coloradians. Good to see you started a new squadron just for the Denver area. Jumping to my question...I would greatly appreciate it if I could get some advice from some fellow Denver riders on the new 04' R1. I currently have a "stead" in the shape of an RC51. WHICH I had been out of riding it for over 2 years, until this summer :). Mainly do in part to a little basketball injury an THEN a nice "little" tree down at Rampart Range!! I swear it jumped in front of me :p Being honest I am not all that familar with the R1's. Thinking about it, I have not ridden an R1 since the champions edition came out. * I ALMOST bought that R1, beautiful looking bike!! What I am wondering is, with all the new improvements to the engine and the increased HP/TOQUE does the bike feel like it pulls "solid" all the way through like a V-Twin does? When I bought my RC I felt the old R1 was to "top heavy" on the HP. It got around great but the RC just jumps when you hit the throttle open. I am sure anyone who answers will say "YES" but I am just hoping someone here has ridden both bikes and can tell me how they feel? Asking this I hope is not a loaded question and I get flamed? I am just really impressed with the new R1's stat's and looks, but wondering if the bike has better low/midrange HP? I am not a HP or speed freak by any means, I just want to know its not a bike I need to REV all the time to get that forward thrust...Ie: 600 cc bikes. <-- no ofense if you own a 600 If anyone here has a 04' R1 and would be willing to hook up I would be more then willing to let someone ride mine to give me some feed back or vise versa.......? I would even be willing to by some lunch for helping me make my decision. If your out riding over the 4th, I have Full ARROW TI exhaust on my RC, so If you see me riding around give out a shout. Love to hook up with some fellow Colorado riders. Thanks. For the record...two cylinders or four..all that matters is how much fun you have!

To answer your question specifically: If an '04 RC51 and an '04 R1 were both accelerated from a rolling idle (1000 rpm) in first gear, the R1 would eat the RC51 for lunch up to about 70 miles an hour. Then the R1 would simply disappear like the Millenium Falcon did when it lept into hyperspace in the original Star Wars. There is no comparison in acceleration at every engine speed. Is the R1 linear? No, it's heavily top weighted, but it's faster everywhere than the RC and there's a lot more engine speed to work with. I owned an RC51 for 3 years. I raced it for two. Now how do I add my opinion on this gently? The RC51 is the most over-rated POS Honda ever produced. The R1 out-powers, out-handles, out-everythings the RC51 without question. It stops better, goes better, pulls at the exit of corners better, transitions midcorner better, gets into corners better, is lighter, and better behaved than the RC51 ever thought about doing. Hell, the stock '04 R1 even sounds better than the RC. I don't know ANY club level racers who ever got an RC51 to handle correctly. And much like Honda has done in AMA Superbike this year, their WSB bike was so far from the stocker that Honda verged on perpetrating a fraud against the buying public. Don't get me wrong. The RC51 is still a KEWL bike, and probably is the best production liter-twin under $15,000, but it's not the ultimate solution Honda told us it would be. So is the R1 better than the RC? Yes, but so is every other open class supersport out there. Do you have to use more RPMs with a 4 than you do with a twin? Sure.

Outrace, Thanks for the input. I appreciate you honesty and comments. Honestly I was 70/30 that I would purchase the R1, but I just wanted some feedback and I think you answered my question. One thing though, YES the RC has some really strange handling maners in "Stock" form, but if you raced one I am really surprised you could not get it to handle that well? I have many friends who have raced them and still do race them and most have gotten some pretty amazing handling out it.......... Last week I rode an RC with suspension settup by Kyle Racing. Now my freind keep telling me it was night and day and he had no idea why Honda did not sell it better settup. I am thinking the whole time "sure...whatever", but man it was UNREAL how it made the bike handle compared to stock. The stock forks were modified by Kyle and an Ohlins rear shock (settup by kyle) with an Kyle linkage arm on the rear. Even thinking about it now I am surpised how it compared to stock, It felt like I was riding a completely different bike! It held its line sooooo well inside or out and the "turn in" was so so much easier, almost effortless! I was rather surprised and PISSED that the bike was capable of handling so well and honda did not sell it to the public that way! Anyway, thats what started my thread. I was thinking about having the suspension done to get the handling that sweet. BUT as I noted, I wonderd if it would better to invest the money in a new bike because it cost a couple of grand for the suspension work. Based on your answer and some of my own research I think I will have to put the RC up for sale and learn to ride an inline four again :sneaky Thanks again for you input.

:fork I had a 2002 tl1000R I loved that bike as you know the sound of it is bruttall but the r1 will just simply smoke the TLR or the RC 51 or any vtwin I think the power curve will be so good that you will forget that vtwin in a heartbeat:thumbup

Originally posted by outrace To answer your question specifically: If an '04 RC51 and an '04 R1 were both accelerated from a rolling idle (1000 rpm) in first gear, the R1 would eat the RC51 for lunch up to about 70 miles an hour. Then the R1 would simply disappear like the Millenium Falcon did when it lept into hyperspace in the original Star Wars. :lol :lol :lol edit: Originally posted by outrace The RC51 is the most over-rated POS Honda ever produced. The R1 out-powers, out-handles, out-everythings the RC51 without question. I have been trying to tell peeps this all along, and all I got in return was a bunch of crap for it.:fact :thumbup

I appreciate your input guys and what I list below is my personal opinion. I finally got to ride an 04 R1 over July 4th weekend. It had about 2200 miles on it and was stock. I was able to ride it around town and to "Flog" it through Deer Creek Canyon and up through H-285 over the pass. We must have put about 140 miles on each others bike. If someone reads this and does not know were Deer Creek is, its the Denver metro area. Home of the some the finest high mountain twisties around. I have noted below what "my" impressions are about the bikes........please note these are only my impressions before anyone starts to flame me. HANDLING: First the R1 is very light feeling when sitting on it (nimble like) and that continues while riding. The RC feels heavy sitting on it. Once under power both bikes felt well balanced and acurate in handling. If you have not rode an RC, the heavy feeling does go away once the bike is moving. Overall I would say the R1 is better feeling on the weight side. The R1 does weight less so one would expect it to feel lighter, but then again I have ridden some bikes that feel "light" sitting on them but once under power they felt like tanks! (old Suzi's) The "turn in" ability was excellent on the R1, so much so I would have to say it was as good if not better then a GSXR 1000 I rode last year. I know suspension and rims have a HUGH effect on handling of a bike and I can say the suspension on the R1 felt great for stock and I would say that really helps the bikes ability. BUT my RC is better. I have to be fair and admit I have a $1500 settup on my bike that was settup for my personal riding style, but even Jason (the R1 owner) was surprised at how well the suspension was. (got to love Ohlins shocks!) Anyway all things being equal and money asside that I spent: The R1 does have better suspension then the RC stock. BRAKING: The rear brake felt the same but man the radial front brakes are smooth on the R1. FLAT out the best stock brakes I have used! FOR the record I have tried the Brembo and PVM race brake kits. Needless to say but I know see why everyone is going with radial mounted calipers! Props to Yamaha! Now one thing of note:Riding around town I notice the brakes power and they are supper smooth, but what Jason and I did notice was in canyons the RC was able to brake/control speed as good and at times even better then the R1. NOW I do not think the brakes on the RC are better BUT the V-Twins natural engine braking along with normal braking made up for a huge part. There were numerous times on the ride that I notice I could go in and out of a corner faster on the RC because I could use the "Engine braking" to control speed instead of the brakes. (IE: less effort more focus on the task at hand) I also noticed with the RC I could adjust mid turn easier becasue of the stronger engine braking. On the R1 I actually had to use the brakes if I needed to increase my "turn in" angle to cut under someone :) Hence I would loose a little more RPM's and pulling power out of the apex. Now BY NO WAY am I saying the R1 is slow in the corner it's just someting we noticed. The tighter the canyon the more advantage the RC had. Once we got out in the more open area...R1 hands down. I think once someone becomes more familar to the R1 it would no be an issue at all. Discussing it, we both personally felt the braking is a matter of how you like to ride, especially between these two bikes. If you use the brakes hard and are a good rider, hands down the R1 is the way to go, it just takes a little more effort then the RC. If you prefer to ride more fluid and carry an "EVEN" speed through corners, well the RC can do it with the best of them thanks inpart to the engine braking. I can tell you that it takes time to get used to bikes and I dont think the 140 miles we logged is enough to make a TRUE statement. I know it took Jason and I few runs to get used each bike. I watched Jason chop the throttle and hit the brakes on my RC, only to cross the yellow line because the bike keep turning in from engine braking. Lucky no one was coming. I even had my share of "Clinching"... I let off the throttle to adjust angle, completely forgeting I was on the the R1 and had to use the brakes hard to correct! So be warned if you ever swap up bikes :) Back on the topic, for straight up braking power.....R1. ENGINE: First thing, the R1 does have the same HIGH gearing the RC does :dunno * I think that would be the first thing I would change! I was very pretty impressed with the Engine. It does have nice torque, real even and smooth. I did notice the flat spot everyone is talking about<--more on that later! NOW the topend...WOW. This thing is a missile! Once the RPM's get up to 7.5/8.0 mark...tuck in and hang on! I can say its probally the smoothest liter bike I have ridden. At times I thought I was riding an R6 on steriods. Once up in the canyon I was really able to notice the R1 and RC's diffrences. IF the canyon was tight the RC had an advantage because of its tremendous torque in low RPM's. If you dont know the RC makes as much torque as an R1 and it does it as low as 3.6 RPM's where the R1 does it around 8.0-10K (depending on exhaust systems) Every time I would come in and out of a corner I noticed I was carrying 6K+/- on the R1 and soon as I got on the gas it was a little flat...I attributed it to the dip in the HP curve. Now it still pulled well but the RC is running around 4K and that is were its bread and butter torque starts. So for tight canyon riding we both prefered the RC. NOW Once we left left the tighter sections, well the R1's power was just way to much. I was able to make up some diffrence in corner speed but there was nothing I could do to make up for the flat out power! I had to push "hard" on the RC to keep the same pace as the R1. Overall the engine on the R1 is excellent. Intall an good exhuast system and mapping to get rid of the DIP and I think the R1 can run with anything with the right rider. Personally if you ride tight canyons, I would say the RC is just a little better because of the low torque. It made ripping from corner to corner easier. If you ride more open canyons....the R1 is the tool to use hands down. In a world were HP is the king well nothing can make up for the power the R1 can produce. I think I even left a few black marks on the R1 trying to carry higher RPM's to avoid the dip. The engine is just that strong! I think it all comes down to what roads you ride and how capable you are at using the engines. I would say the R1 does have a better engine, but it is also a diffrent type of engine. I could not say which I liked better...just that they both had good points and bad points. Overall I would say I would love to have an R1. Now does not that mean I want to get rid of my RC...nope. I think what I learned over the weekend from riding both bikes is two fold: One, They are completely diffrent and trying to compare them is not a true comparison. It really boils down to what type of riding you do. If your a poser and just cruise the streets only... well "bling" up the R1 because hands down the R1 is the machine! I have never ridden anything that can rip like that and stop so well. The RC will never be able to match that performance in a straight line...ever! If you like to ride the canyons and open road its a coin toss. I think it depends on what you personally prefer. The RC can be very tough machine to beat when the road tightens up. Its ability to pull from so low in the RPM range makes it very hard to deny. Honestly I went just as fast on the R1 as I do on my RC in the tight roads...but it took more effort. Once the road opened up the R1 had the advantage though. I easliy say the R1 is everything people are saying about it! It was the first bike in the last four years that impressed me so much, thinking about I have been riding for 16 years and it probally impressed me more then any bike in a long time. Grats to all who have one..... NOW if I can only talk the wife into letting me buy the R1 while keeping the RC!!! :D Sidenote: I would like to thank Jason (forgot last name) for letting me ride his bike. Hopefully he is on this forum and can post some of his impressions. Considering I only meet him at Grand Prix Motorsport that day, I greatly appreciate him loaning me his ride for a few hours.

Originally posted by Pokey I appreciate your input guys and what I list below is my personal opinion. I finally got to ride an 04 R1 over July 4th weekend. It had about 2200 miles on it and was stock. I was able to ride it around town and to "Flog" it through Deer Creek Canyon and up through H-285 over the pass. We must have put about 140 miles on each others bike. If someone reads this and does not know were Deer Creek is, its the Denver metro area. Home of the some the finest high mountain twisties around. I have noted below what "my" impressions are about the bikes........please note these are only my impressions before anyone starts to flame me. HANDLING: First the R1 is very light feeling when sitting on it (nimble like) and that continues while riding. The RC feels heavy sitting on it. Once under power both bikes felt well balanced and acurate in handling. If you have not rode an RC, the heavy feeling does go away once the bike is moving. Overall I would say the R1 is better feeling on the weight side. The R1 does weight less so one would expect it to feel lighter, but then again I have ridden some bikes that feel "light" sitting on them but once under power they felt like tanks! (old Suzi's) The "turn in" ability was excellent on the R1, so much so I would have to say it was as good if not better then a GSXR 1000 I rode last year. I know suspension and rims have a HUGH effect on handling of a bike and I can say the suspension on the R1 felt great for stock and I would say that really helps the bikes ability. BUT my RC is better. I have to be fair and admit I have a $1500 settup on my bike that was settup for my personal riding style, but even Jason (the R1 owner) was surprised at how well the suspension was. (got to love Ohlins shocks!) Anyway all things being equal and money asside that I spent: The R1 does have better suspension then the RC stock. BRAKING: The rear brake felt the same but man the radial front brakes are smooth on the R1. FLAT out the best stock brakes I have used! FOR the record I have tried the Brembo and PVM race brake kits. Needless to say but I know see why everyone is going with radial mounted calipers! Props to Yamaha! Now one thing of note:Riding around town I notice the brakes power and they are supper smooth, but what Jason and I did notice was in canyons the RC was able to brake/control speed as good and at times even better then the R1. NOW I do not think the brakes on the RC are better BUT the V-Twins natural engine braking along with normal braking made up for a huge part. There were numerous times on the ride that I notice I could go in and out of a corner faster on the RC because I could use the "Engine braking" to control speed instead of the brakes. (IE: less effort more focus on the task at hand) I also noticed with the RC I could adjust mid turn easier becasue of the stronger engine braking. On the R1 I actually had to use the brakes if I needed to increase my "turn in" angle to cut under someone :) Hence I would loose a little more RPM's and pulling power out of the apex. Now BY NO WAY am I saying the R1 is slow in the corner it's just someting we noticed. The tighter the canyon the more advantage the RC had. Once we got out in the more open area...R1 hands down. I think once someone becomes more familar to the R1 it would no be an issue at all. Discussing it, we both personally felt the braking is a matter of how you like to ride, especially between these two bikes. If you use the brakes hard and are a good rider, hands down the R1 is the way to go, it just takes a little more effort then the RC. If you prefer to ride more fluid and carry an "EVEN" speed through corners, well the RC can do it with the best of them thanks inpart to the engine braking. I can tell you that it takes time to get used to bikes and I dont think the 140 miles we logged is enough to make a TRUE statement. I know it took Jason and I few runs to get used each bike. I watched Jason chop the throttle and hit the brakes on my RC, only to cross the yellow line because the bike keep turning in from engine braking. Lucky no one was coming. I even had my share of "Clinching"... I let off the throttle to adjust angle, completely forgeting I was on the the R1 and had to use the brakes hard to correct! So be warned if you ever swap up bikes :) Back on the topic, for straight up braking power.....R1. ENGINE: First thing, the R1 does have the same HIGH gearing the RC does :dunno * I think that would be the first thing I would change! I was very pretty impressed with the Engine. It does have nice torque, real even and smooth. I did notice the flat spot everyone is talking about<--more on that later! NOW the topend...WOW. This thing is a missile! Once the RPM's get up to 7.5/8.0 mark...tuck in and hang on! I can say its probally the smoothest liter bike I have ridden. At times I thought I was riding an R6 on steriods. Once up in the canyon I was really able to notice the R1 and RC's diffrences. IF the canyon was tight the RC had an advantage because of its tremendous torque in low RPM's. If you dont know the RC makes as much torque as an R1 and it does it as low as 3.6 RPM's where the R1 does it around 8.0-10K (depending on exhaust systems) Every time I would come in and out of a corner I noticed I was carrying 6K+/- on the R1 and soon as I got on the gas it was a little flat...I attributed it to the dip in the HP curve. Now it still pulled well but the RC is running around 4K and that is were its bread and butter torque starts. So for tight canyon riding we both prefered the RC. NOW Once we left left the tighter sections, well the R1's power was just way to much. I was able to make up some diffrence in corner speed but there was nothing I could do to make up for the flat out power! I had to push "hard" on the RC to keep the same pace as the R1. Overall the engine on the R1 is excellent. Intall an good exhuast system and mapping to get rid of the DIP and I think the R1 can run with anything with the right rider. Personally if you ride tight canyons, I would say the RC is just a little better because of the low torque. It made ripping from corner to corner easier. If you ride more open canyons....the R1 is the tool to use hands down. In a world were HP is the king well nothing can make up for the power the R1 can produce. I think I even left a few black marks on the R1 trying to carry higher RPM's to avoid the dip. The engine is just that strong! I think it all comes down to what roads you ride and how capable you are at using the engines. I would say the R1 does have a better engine, but it is also a diffrent type of engine. I could not say which I liked better...just that they both had good points and bad points. Overall I would say I would love to have an R1. Now does not that mean I want to get rid of my RC...nope. I think what I learned over the weekend from riding both bikes is two fold: One, They are completely diffrent and trying to compare them is not a true comparison. It really boils down to what type of riding you do. If your a poser and just cruise the streets only... well "bling" up the R1 because hands down the R1 is the machine! I have never ridden anything that can rip like that and stop so well. The RC will never be able to match that performance in a straight line...ever! If you like to ride the canyons and open road its a coin toss. I think it depends on what you personally prefer. The RC can be very tough machine to beat when the road tightens up. Its ability to pull from so low in the RPM range makes it very hard to deny. Honestly I went just as fast on the R1 as I do on my RC in the tight roads...but it took more effort. Once the road opened up the R1 had the advantage though. I easliy say the R1 is everything people are saying about it! It was the first bike in the last four years that impressed me so much, thinking about I have been riding for 16 years and it probally impressed me more then any bike in a long time. Grats to all who have one..... NOW if I can only talk the wife into letting me buy the R1 while keeping the RC!!! :D Sidenote: I would like to thank Jason (forgot last name) for letting me ride his bike. Hopefully he is on this forum and can post some of his impressions. Considering I only meet him at Grand Prix Motorsport that day, I greatly appreciate him loaning me his ride for a few hours. Nice write up. Very unbiased and truthful. Now on to the good stuff: As you mentioned, "Its a matter of what the rider wants and what syle of power delivery." Use a lower gear on the R1 and proper throttle control, the RC will not keep up in the twisties. I walked tricked out Ducks with over 138 RWBHP on my stock '04. It just a simple matter of learning how to ride it and apply the power. If your a poser and just cruise the streets only... well "bling" up the R1 because hands down the R1 is the machine! I have never ridden anything that can rip like that and stop so well. The RC will never be able to match that performance in a straight line...ever! :confused: I resent this statement. But I will say that the RC51 sucks for city use.

R1-Superstar Thanks. I was trying to tell it like it was. They are totally different bikes and really should not be compared but I just had to know. Being an owner of an RC I can honestly say The R1 was everything people are touting it to be! I am so impressed with the bike...well I am going to buy it now! :rock I figure I will be able to get a good deal because there is a number of them here in Denver avaliable. I think the new model comes out in like 2-3 months so I should be able to swing a low price on it. *Yes I have to get rid of the RC.... :( O'well I am sure I will get over it! On the lower gear selection, I tired! I spun the rear tire! It put me around 8K when I did it and I am pretty sure I whacked the throttle a little to hard! Mind you it was cool as hell. I also noticed the front tire lift, which was not scary but I was only 2/3 through the turn. I can tell I will have to learn how to use the throtle better on this bike. POSER.... hell I used to be one to, nothing wrong with it. I just got to much in the Track time and fell in love with hard canyon carving. Hmmmm wonder if I will be able to grind the little ball off the end of the Kickstand like I did on the RC??? O joy.............

Nice review man:thumbup . I love my 04 of all the R1's i've owned.

Originally posted by Pokey R1-Superstar Thanks. I was trying to tell it like it was. They are totally different bikes and really should not be compared but I just had to know. Being an owner of an RC I can honestly say The R1 was everything people are touting it to be! I am so impressed with the bike...well I am going to buy it now! :rock I figure I will be able to get a good deal because there is a number of them here in Denver avaliable. I think the new model comes out in like 2-3 months so I should be able to swing a low price on it. *Yes I have to get rid of the RC.... :( O'well I am sure I will get over it! On the lower gear selection, I tired! I spun the rear tire! It put me around 8K when I did it and I am pretty sure I whacked the throttle a little to hard! Mind you it was cool as hell. I also noticed the front tire lift, which was not scary but I was only 2/3 through the turn. I can tell I will have to learn how to use the throtle better on this bike. POSER.... hell I used to be one to, nothing wrong with it. I just got to much in the Track time and fell in love with hard canyon carving. Hmmmm wonder if I will be able to grind the little ball off the end of the Kickstand like I did on the RC??? O joy............. Yep, two months or so. But don't expect anything different from the '04 for '05. Unless you are looking to get a left over '04 (which I'd be surprised if there are any). And it's only July, still 5 more months to sell the '04 models. Cold pavement and tires will give you no traction. We have that problem here too. But when it's warm, the rear end will go no where with proper throttle application. I usually run in the 10K range when canyon blasting. I have not spun the rear tire yet. Good luck with your decision. Peace..............db:riding