DANGER-2004 R1 Cuts Out- UPDATE

hey guys i have an 05R1 with about 2500miles on it. this past two weeks ive have the issue of the engine cuttin off when stopping with the clutch pulled in and the throttle off. happend twice today. one time it was when i was gettin off the freeway. pretty scary coz i had to turn the key on and off just to start the bike in the middle of an offramp. any ideas when yamaha will address this problem? should i even bring it in to get checked out? any suggestions?

Originally posted by insane one hey guys i have an 05R1 with about 2500miles on it. this past two weeks ive have the issue of the engine cuttin off when stopping with the clutch pulled in and the throttle off. happend twice today. one time it was when i was gettin off the freeway. pretty scary coz i had to turn the key on and off just to start the bike in the middle of an offramp. any ideas when yamaha will address this problem? should i even bring it in to get checked out? any suggestions? I talked to a guy who works at a Yamaha dealership in Tampa, and he said he got a gas analyzation procedure from Yamaha, but he wasn't admitting it was the same problem. He said something needed to be adjusted, which I think now is the on the Throttle Position Sensor or on the throttle body itself. In my situation with the local dealer, they would only work on it if they could duplicate the problem while they ride it, or I could get the gas analyzer done, but they said I'd probably have to pay to have it done because they can't justify doing it if they don't witness the problem.

Originally posted by insane one hey guys i have an 05R1 with about 2500miles on it. this past two weeks ive have the issue of the engine cuttin off when stopping with the clutch pulled in and the throttle off. happend twice today. one time it was when i was gettin off the freeway. pretty scary coz i had to turn the key on and off just to start the bike in the middle of an offramp. any ideas when yamaha will address this problem? should i even bring it in to get checked out? any suggestions? I STRONGLY suggest that you get that to the dealer and CALL YAMAHA (first) KEEP a record of when the problem started and also record everytime you took it to the dealer.Start recording names and dates. This willl help you later. I wish you were not in this club. Stay safe and good luck with getting it fixed.

Well, I have been following this start since Speeder started it. I think my post was on page three or four. Anyways I had the problem intermittenly - and raising the idle seemed to have cured it - or more like masked it. Over the weekend I had the throttle bodies synced because the engine was running a bit ragged. Five kilometres out and the bike started cutting out. Not only that it was surging and shuddering something wicked. I had the agent looked at it on Monday and they said throttle sensor and charged me for two. After a bit of negotiating they lowered the price and charged me for one sensor. I collected the bike yesterday and its running fine at the moment - nothing like Saturday. However after repeatedly hearing: Its the throttle bodies and not the throttle sensor, not the ignition, etc, Im wondering when the bike will start cutting out again. A pic of the sensor: http://www.livingadream2003.com/img/throttle.jpg

By the way any 05 r1 got this problem?? Good question... I went through 10 or so pages on this thread and only saw 1 post on an 05 R1 having a similar issue. Is there nobody at Yamaha corporate to bitch too? I mean, if I was a higher up at Yamaha and read through this thread, I'd be worried as hell about a lawsuit.

I had the same problem in the fall. Took it to the dealer with these posts and the service manager changed the TPS sensors under warranty. The problem has not occurred since, and I've put as least 4000 miles on in Florida and Michigan with the new TPS sensors. He did have trouble correctly setting one of the TPS sensors, when he installed the new ones. Maybe this is why this fix is not working for some people.

You know, what everyone should do is to either send this page as a .txt file to Yamaha, or print it out and send it via snail mail or fax it to their corporate headquarters. Spam the hell out of them The more I read about this, the more attractive that the new G1K is looking...

apparently,the TPS "clean and adjust"procedure is the key... 1000km and no cut out. also i adjust my idle at 1400rpm and "rich it up" in that area. we will see how it turns but i truly hope to end with it,like some fortunates members around. it really kill's you....

AHAMAY: What kind of numbers are you putting out with the mods, escpecially the YEC kit, and how did the install go?...any issues? Cheers

Hey guys, I had a cutting out problem that arouse seemingly out of nowhere. The bike throttle is SURGING which makes it very difficult and scary to control in a corner and then it got worse and the bike would cut out at low engine speed. It turned out that the Main Throttle Position Sensor was causing the problem (but didn't provide any error code in the dash). It seems that a TPS failure of this kind isn't detectable via error code. The mechanics at Yamaha City, Melbourne performed exhaustive elimination tests by swapping parts off an 04/05 R1 that didn't have this problem. When they swapped throttle bodies, the problem went away. Afterwards, they pinpointed it down to the main TPS sensor and now are going to replace the secondary TPS also. So now the bike doesn't cut out but it still surges but not as bad. They have since ordered a secondary TPS swich but the part hasn't arrived yet. I'll let you guys know if this fixes the surging also. It took the dealer 6 weeks to pinpoint it down to the TPS! (Relevent) Details: 1. 2004 Silver R1 (STOCK BIKE) 2. 10,000 kms when problem first noticed 3. I'm in Melbourne, Australia. Hello world :) 4. Partially fixed replacing main TPS switch under warranty 5. Waiting for secondary TPS switch now because still jerky I have another 04 for the track but that hasn't acted up at all (YET!).

well, so far i am a happy camper once again.......:riding After filling a complaint and bitching---- I got my bike back from the dealer last month after they replaced my tps with what the mechanic stated was an updated tps from yamaha. I have to admit, I had my doubts because this was the second time I took my bike in with the same problem and the first time they replaced the tps as well but the problem was not corrected (damn was I pissed). The good news is so far I've put about 1000 miles on the bike and it hasn't cut out on me at all and I live in Fl where the weather is starting to warm up ...............Looks like Yamaha has found the solution.. Good luck to everyone and hopefully I won't need to post on here anymore......:thumbup

Originally posted by CARBON well, so far i am a happy camper once again.......:riding After filling a complaint and bitching---- I got my bike back from the dealer last month after they replaced my tps with what the mechanic stated was an updated tps from yamaha. I have to admit, I had my doubts because this was the second time I took my bike in with the same problem and the first time they replaced the tps as well but the problem was not corrected (damn was I pissed). The good news is so far I've put about 1000 miles on the bike and it hasn't cut out on me at all and I live in Fl where the weather is starting to warm up ...............Looks like Yamaha has found the solution.. Good luck to everyone and hopefully I won't need to post on here anymore......:thumbup I have talked to 2 different dealers about a supposed "updated TPS sensor" and they both looked up the part number (which would tell them if it has been updated, both of them said the same thing... that the part was the same and had no revisions... Ill contact a couple more to see if I get any differences. Paul

I have the same problem 3 months ago and mine is a 03. I have got the TPS change and it's running fine untill now and it happen again. I will try to clean the TPS instead of replacing it and will post back. 1st time 15,000km (solve by changing 2 TPS) 2nd time 21,000km (This morning) Vin#4032 K&N air filter, Mirage exhaust, V-stacks, PC3usb with custom maps. When it happens it just won’t go away. Not like some of the member here where the problem is inconsistent. The rev is fluctuating on idle and if I don’t give the throttle a twist, it will cut off. On low rev, it will cut off when the clutch is pull in be it 1st, 2nd or whatever gear I’m in. In simple terms the bike is not road worthy at the moment.

I am at about 1000 miles after my dealer changed both TPS by order of Yamaha and I have not experienced any issue so far. Time will tell.

how do i clean my TPS is there any spray like wd-40...

sous..i used a 2+2 penetrating oil spray

You can use any decent penertrating oil lie the TPS on its side and dribble some in between the rotating shaft while turning it through its rotation. You wont need much you can normaly feel the difference straight away. I have done this to two bikes now and the problem has not come back.

thanks guys ..... :bow

Just curious, do you guys that have the cutout issues always let the bike cycle through the start up tests (when the EXUP operates and the FI pressurizes) before you actually hit the starter button?

Originally posted by goose borfner Just curious, do you guys that have the cutout issues always let the bike cycle through the start up tests (when the EXUP operates and the FI pressurizes) before you actually hit the starter button? I did.

The start up tests only take about 2 seconds. You gotta really be in hurry to get on the road to hit the starter before then. It takes about that long to get your hand from the key to the start button. I think most would say yes they wait. :)

That new GSXR is looking pretty good.

Well folks, I am out of the "wait and see" game at least on one bike. I totaled the bike at the track :(. I went down at 100+ in a corner. Luckly, I am walking after a broken neck, dislocated shoulder and broken hand. But the other bike is coming up on 6K real soon. Al though it will be a couple months before I ride again.

Originally posted by dabeckham Well folks, I am out of the "wait and see" game at least on one bike. I totaled the bike at the track :(. I went down at 100+ in a corner. Luckly, I am walking after a broken neck, dislocated shoulder and broken hand. But the other bike is coming up on 6K real soon. Al though it will be a couple months before I ride again. Holy f***in $iht bro... Hope you recover well!!! Dont rush getting back on a bike. Make sure you are 100%!!! Get well! P

I just thought I'd like to add something. I haven't had the stalling problem in awhile, but the other day, I was leaving my apartment complex and saw my friend walking his dog, so I pulled over and hit the kill switch, but forgot to turn the key off. I ended up talking to him a little longer than I thought, and with the lights on and my radar detector, the battery doesn't last long. Well, it ended up not having enough juice to start all the way so I had to push start it. Then later that day, my bike stalled on me once. I think the bike may have adjusted itself to not stall anymore, and then when everything reset because of the low voltage, it brought the problem back again. The voltage went low enough to reset my shift light, but not low enough to reset the clock. :dunno I don't know if that would even help anything to know that, but it's just something I noticed.

Originally posted by dabeckham The start up tests only take about 2 seconds. You gotta really be in hurry to get on the road to hit the starter before then. It takes about that long to get your hand from the key to the start button. I think most would say yes they wait. :) I just went back and read this, and I think on the incident I just posted about, I didn't wait for the start up tests, and it stalled at the next stop. I guess I'm one of those people who are in a rush to get on the road, hehe. I usually do wait a little, but sometimes I'm in a hurry to get the bike started so it can start warming up, but the 2 seconds doesn't really make that big of a difference I guess.

fast recovery broth... its all about tps had to clean..................each time when i clean my tps the problem will go the day after clining or the ame day ive clean my tps from 1 month it happen about 5 time in one hour after cleaning and then intell now no problem bike runing fine....:D

Originally posted by sous fast recovery broth... its all about tps had to clean..................each time when i clean my tps the problem will go the day after clining or the ame day ive clean my tps from 1 month it happen about 5 time in one hour after cleaning and then intell now no problem bike runing fine....:D Fill me in, but I was an auto tech for 14+ years. The T.P.S.sensors I have always worked w/are basically sealed potentiometers. Unless you guys are breaking them open and messing w/the internals I don't see what you can be cleaning. Other than that the T.P.S. sits on the side of the throttle plate linkage and cleaning that isn't going to do anything. You may be changing adj settings, but cleaning them I doubt it's doing anything but making it look nicer.

The problem does act like TPS. And, after my dealer changed both TPSs by order of Yamaha it didn't act up. I haven't look closely at the part to see how it would be cleaned but I believe this has been discussed eariier in this thread. BTW: every TPS I have seen has been a sealed pot. but you can still spray a cleaner around the shaft because "sealed" aint' exactly sealed..:) ie. the need to be cleaned.

when u spray the liquid like wd-40 inside the tps between the rotation and the tps itself that can be turned by hand the liquid will go insid the tps there is space about 1 millimiter i think but what i am sure about it the liquid will go inside the tps and the tps will be smother even when u try it by hand i did this procedure many time

For anyone that is still having problems with Their bikes, and it's still under warranty, you should be harassing your dealer to solve the problem, instead of trying to figure it out on your own. That's what I did and after several visits and complaints to the dealer, they replaced the TPS twice (under warranty). I finally got the results that I was looking for. I've repeated this several times and I don't understand why people still insist on experimenting and coming up with every explanation under the sun on there own............. If it's a new bike, it shouldn't be your problem........ That's why we pay big bucks for new products..................So they run perfect and don't settle for less. (That's why warranties were invented) You can handle it how ever you want but while your busy analyzing what the problem is, I'm going to be riding from sunset to sundown on my perfectly running maching. I apologize if I've affended anyone but the way I see it, this has been going on for to long and everyone has come up with their own expert opinion and from what I see, the problem is still going on for some of you. maybe it's time to change the strategy so we can put a happy ending to this topic..................... By the way, if it means anything, I've been very impressed by all the technical knowledge some of you guys have...... unfortunately it hasn't been enough to fix your problems. Good luck to allllll:dunno

I wish it was that easy. My problem doesn't happen often enough for the dealer to do anything. It'll be a 1 in 100 chance that it happens while someone from the dealership rides it. If they don't witness a problem, they won't do sh!t. I'm just glad it doesn't happen to me very often. I think it's only happened about 7 times in the past 4 months.

The dealer does not need to replicate the problem.....Yamaha manufacturers are well aware of the situation (even if they say otherwise... This has been reported a number of times.). My dealer called yamaha directly because they couldn't replicate the situation either and explained to them my complaint.... Without the dealer replicating the problem Yamaha told them to change out the TPS (funny, it was almost like yamaha new exactly what was going on..) I had to do this twice because the first time the TPS were changed the problem was not fixed. After they were changed for the second time under warranty is when the problem was fixed. All this was covered without the dealer ever replicating the problem and Yamaha was aware that the problem was not replicated.

Carbon, you are correct that Yamaha is aware of the problem and if your dealer takes the initiative call them or you tell them to do so then it would seem Yamaha will tell them to replace the TPS. But, there are many dealers that feel compelled to reproduce the problem and solve it on their own. And, it is very common for a tech to say if I can't reproduce it I can't begin to look at where the problem is. There are few things you consider before posting comments that are inflamatory. I have often thought this thread has carried on a very long time and have wondered if I should continue to post. But, I remember that this is a forum and I figure if you don't like the rambling or opinions then it's very easy to simply not read the thread. It takes conversation and as much data as possible to solve a problme like this. Things to consider: Some people are out of warranty. I bought the extended on both my bikes for this very reason and because I broke 3rd gear. Tthat would have been $1200 to fix. The other thing and more importantly, if they are simply replaceing them with the same original factory part, it will happen again. And, it will likely not be under warrenty then. I am curious why the first time they replaced your TPS it did not fix the problem.

Interesting that some say replacing the TPS cured the problem and others have sad it made no difference. Don't get me wrong the TPS could still be the culprit. I suppose it's possible that there was a bad batch of pots, or there's been a product update. I'd be nice to have more details..... BTW since having removed my air injection system and syncing the TB's my ride has not acted up. Several thousand miles. Nutty!?!?!?! KK

I personally wouldn't accept a tech to tell me there is nothing he can do unless the problem is reproduced.... You, as the customer have a right to demand service on a defected product until you are satisfied...... If the dealer won't call Yamaha, I posted Yamaha's direct # on this forum earlier and advised the readers to file a formal complaint either verbally or written, they will get your vin# after that they are on notice that your bike has a problem (also get the persons name that you spoke with)..i would also advise that the dealer won't take any action...Then you can ask them what is your next step---(they have to help you from there...) I got my bike fixed because I went through the channels until I finally got results.. I made sure that the higher ups were aware of my dissatisfaction and that I wasn't going to just go away... dabeckham, i'm not sure why the first TPS didn't fix the problem. After approx 600 miles with the replaced TPS, the problem returned....I was very upset and returned back to the dealer expressing my dissatisfaction.....The dealer called Yamaha for the second time because since they never reproduced the problem they weren't sure what to do (I also told them that the bike was unsafe and I wasn't going to ride again until it got fixed) :rant . Anyway, Yamaha said they had revised the TPS and were going to send the new one to the dealer . I left my bike. It's been approx 2000 miles now since I got the bike and still going strong. I'm not sure what will happen in the future but at least everything is well documented that my bike has had this problem...............

Well, it's good to know they have changed something on the design.

Originally posted by CARBON I personally wouldn't accept a tech to tell me there is nothing he can do unless the problem is reproduced.... You, as the customer have a right to demand service on a defected product until you are satisfied...... If the dealer won't call Yamaha, I posted Yamaha's direct # on this forum earlier and advised the readers to file a formal complaint either verbally or written, they will get your vin# after that they are on notice that your bike has a problem (also get the persons name that you spoke with)..i would also advise that the dealer won't take any action...Then you can ask them what is your next step---(they have to help you from there...) I got my bike fixed because I went through the channels until I finally got results.. I made sure that the higher ups were aware of my dissatisfaction and that I wasn't going to just go away... dabeckham, i'm not sure why the first TPS didn't fix the problem. After approx 600 miles with the replaced TPS, the problem returned....I was very upset and returned back to the dealer expressing my dissatisfaction.....The dealer called Yamaha for the second time because since they never reproduced the problem they weren't sure what to do (I also told them that the bike was unsafe and I wasn't going to ride again until it got fixed) :rant . Anyway, Yamaha said they had revised the TPS and were going to send the new one to the dealer . I left my bike. It's been approx 2000 miles now since I got the bike and still going strong. I'm not sure what will happen in the future but at least everything is well documented that my bike has had this problem............... "Yamaha said they had revised the TPS and were going to send the new one to the dealer" --Carbon Yamaha has admitted this to some of us before. If this is true, all we need is the replacement part number, Simple Right? but they wont give it up. They want to deal with this on a case by case basis, in hopes that the "trouble makers" will shut up, and let them sweep it under the rug. I think the key is to pressure them for the revised part number, and we may be able to finally solve this. My thoughts, whats yours?

Originally posted by CARBON Without the dealer replicating the problem Yamaha told them to change out the TPS (funny, it was almost like yamaha new exactly what was going on..) I had to do this twice because the first time the TPS were changed the problem was not fixed. After they were changed for the second time under warranty is when the problem was fixed. All this was covered without the dealer ever replicating the problem and Yamaha was aware that the problem was not replicated. The girl at the service desk was nice enough to call Yamaha directly, and before I even left the store, she called me back on my cell phone to tell me about it. Her exact words were "They said it MIGHT be the TPS, but they aren't saying it IS". In order for any warranty work to be done at that time, they DO have to replicate the problem. Yamaha wasn't going to give the definitive answer that MY problem was caused by the TPS, especially if everyone is just going off my word. So if the techs can't find a problem with the bike, they aren't going to have the dealership pay for any equipment changes just because I said there is a problem. I can fully understand that and don't blame them. Another issue is my bike is my daily driver right now. I can't leave my bike at the dealership overnight, let alone a few weeks to let them practice trial and error to find the problem. I heard about a gas analyzation procedure that can determine the problem, but I would have had to pay for it up front. The problem hasn't been bad enough where I couldn't use my bike regularly so I haven't felt the need to fork up money out of my pocket to pay for maintanence or rent another vehicle. This is all why this thread is still going, and people aren't running to the dealers to get their bike fixed. Sure they seem to have fixed a few bikes now under warranty, but how long did your last TPS last? I had just under 10,000 miles on my bike before the first incident. What happens when the TPS is replaced and it fails again in 10,000 miles, and I can safely assume your bike won't be under warranty then. Other people have had much less miles on theirs and have the problem. Techs are human too, and they don't know everything. Even the engineers don't know everything. It's just like a Beta program. They create something to the best of their ability, and have people test the program and tell them about the bugs. It's not going to be perfect the first time out. If they actually pin pointed the problem, we all wouldn't be having an issue getting it fixed. What ever part is causing the problem would need a design update and it would be published, and word would spread and somehow it may end up on this post. Then people who have expired warranties can buy the part and fix it themselves without having to pay labor or troubleshooting fees at the dealer. I just want to wait for a DIY remedy, or the point where I can take my bike to the dealer and they say, "Oh yeah, I know exactly what's wrong, it's definitely this part and we can change it out in 2 hours." Note: This was a couple months ago when I talked to the dealer. My bike acted up the first time the DAY before the new GSXR's hit the floors. I haven't been back to the dealer asking about it since a few weeks after that because I haven't had the problem, except for the one time the other day.

guys do you know any one who had this problem with a 05? I got mine just before new year & I've got like 8000KM on my bike till now no problem but every time I get into this thread I freak out, pls give me some comfort:)

TheBFA I will see if the dealer will provide me with the TPS part # from there records of the repair....... In the mean time, take some iniciative as well....This is very much your problem to. Do you beleive that you have done everything possible in order to correct your issues. 1st of all have you contacted Yamaha yourself to file a complaint!!!!!!!!!! It's obvious your not getting much help from your dealer... Your right techs and engineers don't know everything but if you beleive that Yamahas finest (the ones who have build this bike from scratch) with their experience and technology don't understand what is causing this problem by now, then you are mistaken. If that was the case, Yamaha would have been out of business a long time ago...... If you need the # to Yamaha directly you can find it in my old post on pg 24

Originally posted by CARBON TheBFA I will see if the dealer will provide me with the TPS part # from there records of the repair....... In the mean time, take some iniciative as well....This is very much your problem to. Do you beleive that you have done everything possible in order to correct your issues. 1st of all have you contacted Yamaha yourself to file a complaint!!!!!!!!!! It's obvious your not getting much help from your dealer... Your right techs and engineers don't know everything but if you beleive that Yamahas finest (the ones who have build this bike from scratch) with their experience and technology don't understand what is causing this problem by now, then you are mistaken. If that was the case, Yamaha would have been out of business a long time ago...... If you need the # to Yamaha directly you can find it in my old post on pg 24 I know I haven't done everything I could have done. The reason is, I'm not that worried about it. I still have until September for my warranty, and it was just too early in the game for me to get anything done. Not much was known about it back then, and it wasn't very frequent on my bike. But just like I had hoped, more information is being relayed to and from Yamaha, and they have determined specific parts that need to be replaced, but obviously it's not a 100% fix. It seems more like a 50% fix based on the statistics I think you provided. 1st TPS replacement didn't work? I don't have the time or energy to keep going back to the dealer to have them redo the work. If "they" knew exactly what needed to be replaced, and there is actually a different TPS or throttle body that's the fix, why would they say "replace the TPS" and not say "replace the TPS with this new improved one"? Or maybe they did replace it with a new one but it still had the same problem as the old one. Obvisously they still don't have their ducks in a row. Tell me why I should go to the dealer to fix something they can't fix? Let's see, from one post, a guy made it 600 miles on a replaced TPS, then went back, and got it replaced again. Now he hasn't had a problem since. How many miles is "since"? How about MY "fix"----> Do nothing. Hey, I made it 3000 miles before the problem happened again. That's 5 times further than the guy who DID get it "fixed"! I'm sure the only reason it happened again was because I let my voltage get too low and I had to push start my bike. I think I'll not waste my time with a dealer until I here something else about it on this post. My bike runs fine for the most part. EDIT: Actually, I just remembered I did do something. I put more coolant in, and it is getting a little on the low side again.....so much for a bad TPS......

I realize that i'm pretty much just wasting my time, so I think i'm going to take dabeckham's advise & not continue reading this thread anymore......... Goodluck to all that still have this problem. I hope someday you guys could figure it all out.:thumbup

Well, this should make a few, if not all, of you happy. I called my dealer that replaced mine and he gave me the replacment (revised) part number. Original 5FL858850000 New 5FL858850100 It would appear that Yamaha has recognized a problem with this part.

i spoke with the local dealer here and the only thing they have heard about it was someone else talking about it. they said they have quite a few riders in there pretty often and no one has had any complaints. he also told me about the zx-10 downshifting from 4th to 3rd. anyone here anything about that??

Just to add to the thread that will not die... The most likely cause is the TPS. The reason why replacing the TPS worked for some and not others is simple. The new TPS was faulted as well. Within the last couple of months, Yamaha has released a 3rd version of the TPS, and is recommending them for replacement on faulted bikes. Make sure your dealer talks to your appropriate Yamaha rep when ordering new TPS, and don't just order off the fiche. You want to get the newest TPS available (v3). Good day.

Originally posted by dabeckham Well, this should make a few, if not all, of you happy. I called my dealer that replaced mine and he gave me the replacment (revised) part number. Original 5FL858850000 New 5FL858850100 It would appear that Yamaha has recognized a problem with this part. as i look into my parts cataloge i see that the tps num is 0100 at the end :dunno so i think the new is 0000 at the end:thumbup

I am just going by what my dealer told me. Maybe he is wrong about which one was the newer one.

maybe but its a good news thanks any way :hellobye

Originally posted by dabeckham I am just going by what my dealer told me. Maybe he is wrong about which one was the newer one. This is my point exactly. I'm waiting for a definite answer before I bring my bike in. I don't have time to make repeated visits.

Originally posted by dabeckham Well, this should make a few, if not all, of you happy. I called my dealer that replaced mine and he gave me the replacment (revised) part number. Original 5FL858850000 New 5FL858850100 It would appear that Yamaha has recognized a problem with this part. First off, good job dabeckham. Next, can someone confirm the existence of a third revised tps. It sure would be nice if Yamaha would give us a little incite here, but it looks like we will have to muttle along as best we can. I believe this thread is doing some good, and we will eventually get to the bottom of this. (with or without Yamahas cooperation) Now we can at least come at them with part numbers that are no longer ghosts. Keep digging guys :thumbup

Here's a bit of an update. As many know, my 04 engine cut out on the racetrack in May of 2004, totalling the bike and causing me to sustain some significant orthopedic injuries. It has taken me a year, replacing and repairing a little at a time, but the bike is back together and running. If you see: http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=127449 you can see the bike, and also that I experienced the engine cutting out in a high speed turn again, but this time I was lucky and did not go down. This tells me that my suspicions that there is a real mechanical problem are correct, and not rider error. I put little faith in the likelihood that the second incident (5-25-05) was the result of a vent hose mis-routing. I spent a while on the phone with Kevin of Mr Cycles. He dug as deep as he could into the situation, in order to help me and others experiencing this 04 problem. To the best we can determine, there have been three versions of the TPS. The orinal part had the following number: 5FL8588500-00 Then the first revision was as follows: 5FL8588501-00 We learned today that there is a 3rd version numbered: 5FL8588502-00 This part # is so new it was not in Mr Cycle's data base, and may not be in many dealer's data bases as of yet. I have no idea if this part will solve the problem, but I am going to take a chance with replacing both the primary and secondary TPS units with this new part number and do additional testing of the bike. I ordered 2 of these revised TPS units from Kevin of Mr Cycles today. If anyone else is so inclined, you can give him a call and ask for the latest version of the TPS and he'll be happy to help. I hope this solves my problem... And thanks to Kevin for spending so much time trying to find out as much as possible regarding this serious issue.

I went to my local stealership today to look into this revised t.p.s. They looked in the microfiche and pulled it up. Nothing. They have the part # that ends in 100. And if it was a newer version then it would have said, "This part superceeds this part #". And they saw nothing. So they sent me to the service department to see if they had any bullitins on my bike. If they did then it would be warranty work. All that was on my bike was to have the engine mount bolts checked for torque specs. I hope yall are right about this updated TPS's.

they replaced my TPS's about a month ago and 800 miles..so far...the problem has not come back.....yet......

Originally posted by Eyespy Here's a bit of an update. As many know, my 04 engine cut out on the racetrack in May of 2004, totalling the bike and causing me to sustain some significant orthopedic injuries. It has taken me a year, replacing and repairing a little at a time, but the bike is back together and running. If you see: http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=127449 you can see the bike, and also that I experienced the engine cutting out in a high speed turn again, but this time I was lucky and did not go down. This tells me that my suspicions that there is a real mechanical problem are correct, and not rider error. I put little faith in the likelihood that the second incident (5-25-05) was the result of a vent hose mis-routing. I spent a while on the phone with Kevin of Mr Cycles. He dug as deep as he could into the situation, in order to help me and others experiencing this 04 problem. To the best we can determine, there have been three versions of the TPS. The orinal part had the following number: 5FL8588500-00 Then the first revision was as follows: 5FL8588501-00 We learned today that there is a 3rd version numbered: 5FL8588502-00 This part # is so new it was not in Mr Cycle's data base, and may not be in many dealer's data bases as of yet. I have no idea if this part will solve the problem, but I am going to take a chance with replacing both the primary and secondary TPS units with this new part number and do additional testing of the bike. I ordered 2 of these revised TPS units from Kevin of Mr Cycles today. If anyone else is so inclined, you can give him a call and ask for the latest version of the TPS and he'll be happy to help. I hope this solves my problem... And thanks to Kevin for spending so much time trying to find out as much as possible regarding this serious issue. Good job eyespy, and thanks Kevin. Its hard to believe that there are three different units for one year & no service bullitin. How can this posible? How much are the new units each?

Originally posted by aaask8tr I went to my local stealership today to look into this revised t.p.s. They looked in the microfiche and pulled it up. Nothing. They have the part # that ends in 100. And if it was a newer version then it would have said, "This part superceeds this part #". And they saw nothing. So they sent me to the service department to see if they had any bullitins on my bike. If they did then it would be warranty work. All that was on my bike was to have the engine mount bolts checked for torque specs. I hope yall are right about this updated TPS's. This is not a surprise. Call Kevin, he should be able to get you the parts.

Originally posted by EX929 Good job eyespy, and thanks Kevin. Its hard to believe that there are three different units for one year & no service bullitin. How can this posible? How much are the new units each? Thanks EX929. Whether this proves to be a solution or not remains to be seen. The part was something $137 or something each if I remember correctly, but please don't quote me on that, I don't recall exactly. Regarding how all this is possible, your speculation is as good as mine....

Originally posted by Eyespy Thanks EX929. Whether this proves to be a solution or not remains to be seen. The part was something $137 or something each if I remember correctly, but please don't quote me on that, I don't recall exactly. Regarding how all this is possible, your speculation is as good as mine.... Can Kevin or somebody confirm the part number on the new 05's? It would be good if we could compare it to the third edition tps.

Originally posted by EX929 Can Kevin or somebody confirm the part number on the new 05's? It would be good if we could compare it to the third edition tps. From what limited information we could find out, this part number is so new it's not even likely to be in most data bases yet. I believe the 01-00 is the part now listed as the 04/05 part. But, as mentioned, there is a 3rd version, 02-00 I will post some follow-up as soon as I am able to install and test, so long as I don't manage to mangle myself in the process. i expect to have the bike back on the track on 6-21 and 6-22-05.

Yamaha's microfiche says that the part number is (5FL-85885-01-00) as now. I went to ronayers.com and looked up this part under 04 and 05 R1 TPS and it was 5FL-85885-01-00. I also did a search with ronayers.com and found 5FL-85885-00-00 for sale for a cheaper price. I did a search for the 5FL-85885-02-00 and found nothing.

Originally posted by EX929 Can Kevin or somebody confirm the part number on the new 05's? It would be good if we could compare it to the third edition tps. According to Yamaha, the 02-00 replaces the 00-00 and the 01-00. It will be the most updated number for the 04/05. As Larry stated, this is a brand new part number. It will not show on any dealers fiche yet. They will have to call to get the pricing info. Kevin info@mrcycles.com

I am very skeptical about believing that this part exists (02-00) But I have faith in yall.

Larry, They arrived today. I will get them to the USPS this afternoon. Kevin

I hope these fix the problem.

Nice!

Thanks Kevin. I may be able to install these as early as next Friday or Saturday. I'll let folks know what results I get when the bike goes back on the track on the 21st/22nd of June.

Eyespy mention he ordered BOTH the Primary and Secondary TPS. Is this, 5FL8588502-00, the part number for both?

Yes they are the same. JBorino had these installed in his bike and it still cuts off.

Damn! Mine is beginning to do this too. 05 R1 with a little over 4K miles. 10 minutes after I got gas it began to idle really rough...500 rpm and finally just died as I pulled to a red light. It didn't want to start up again but finally after a few tries.

Originally posted by 2fasst Damn! Mine is beginning to do this too. 05 R1 with a little over 4K miles. 10 minutes after I got gas it began to idle really rough...500 rpm and finally just died as I pulled to a red light. It didn't want to start up again but finally after a few tries. Shyt dude. I hope it is just a bad tank of gas, but... Perhaps the newest replacement tps was created because Yam. knew the 05s parts were also suspect. I imagine we will be hearing a lot more complaints from the 05 crowd this season, if that is the case. The fact seem to be that we have 3 tps part numbers for one r1 model, and no apparent service bulletins on the subject. WTF

It felt like I was running on 2 cylinders. Really rough idle. Even riding at 5K rpm and engine felt rough...not just at idle. Pulled to a red light and it dies. I don't think it's bad gas because my buddy with the same 05 R1 bought at the same time got gas also and his bike was fine. Well he got gas at the same gas station when I was filling mine but he used a different pump. He has 1000 less miles on his bike than mine though.

Originally posted by EX929 The fact seem to be that we have 3 tps part numbers for one r1 model, and no apparent service bulletins on the subject. WTF Yamaha has been real quiet about this. If this is how they chooses to do business and "take care" of their customers I honestly can't see myself buying another Yamaha again.

Originally posted by 2fasst Yamaha has been real quiet about this. If this is how they chooses to do business and "take care" of their customers I honestly can't see myself buying another Yamaha again. The only thing I can think of to explain the vail of silence, is that they are unsure of how to correct the problem, therefore making a recall a useless expenditure. Anybody else have a theory?

Originally posted by aaask8tr Yes they are the same. JBorino had these installed in his bike and it still cuts off. Is it known for certain which TPS part numbers he used and whether they were the 02-00 sensors, and also if they were correctly installed? It would totally blow to buy these parts, pull off the originals, install the new ones, and still have the same unridable bike...

Hi all ... hope this will be solved once and for all.... But, can someone tell if this fault is in US R1's only !!! or also apply to the europe version 04 's ? Thank you for your time . Regards

Does anyone have a TPS taken from either an R1 or an R6 that exhibits or did exhibit this stalling problem? If so, could you please send it to me? If the TPS is the culprit, I have a hunch as to the fail mode. Examination of the TPS fault code matrix reveals that the ECU, upon determining a TPS is "bad", throws a code, but does not prevent running or starting. The fact that the ECU does not throw a code tells me that if in fact there is a problem with the TPS in some manner, the ECU is not capable of detecting it. Further more, this condition appears to cause the ECU to shut down the injectors (my assumption) in response. The reason I suspect the ECU is shutting down the injectors is because an ECU power cycle "cures" the problem. If my hunch is correct, this would indicate that the problem is not just the ECU or TPS, but an interaction between the two. Send your TPS to: Samanna Systems Inc. PO. Box 1075 Lakeville MN 55044-1075 The more sensors I receive, the better the chances of detecting/identifying the problem. I have an extensive background in throttle position sensor performance and endurance testing. I understand how these things are put together and what causes them to fail. Sam

Ready to purchase 05 R1. Is there a possibility that this problem could occur and if so should I have the dealer make the proper changes to eliminate the chance of this happaning.

Originally posted by Sam Farris Does anyone have a TPS taken from either an R1 or an R6 that exhibits or did exhibit this stalling problem? If so, could you please send it to me? If the TPS is the culprit, I have a hunch as to the fail mode. Examination of the TPS fault code matrix reveals that the ECU, upon determining a TPS is "bad", throws a code, but does not prevent running or starting. The fact that the ECU does not throw a code tells me that if in fact there is a problem with the TPS in some manner, the ECU is not capable of detecting it. Further more, this condition appears to cause the ECU to shut down the injectors (my assumption) in response. The reason I suspect the ECU is shutting down the injectors is because an ECU power cycle "cures" the problem. If my hunch is correct, this would indicate that the problem is not just the ECU or TPS, but an interaction between the two. Send your TPS to: Samanna Systems Inc. PO. Box 1075 Lakeville MN 55044-1075 The more sensors I receive, the better the chances of detecting/identifying the problem. I have an extensive background in throttle position sensor performance and endurance testing. I understand how these things are put together and what causes them to fail. Sam Hi Sam, I cannot tell you how relieved and pleased I am that you are looking into this. When you test the suspect sensors, are they sacrificed, or are they still in an unaltered state and returnable to the owner?

Originally posted by Eyespy Hi Sam, I cannot tell you how relieved and pleased I am that you are looking into this. When you test the suspect sensors, are they sacrificed, or are they still in an unaltered state and returnable to the owner? I cannot foresee any reason to dissect the sensor; therefore it is my intention to be able to return them to the owner unaltered. Sam

Originally posted by Sam Farris I cannot foresee any reason to dissect the sensor; therefore it is my intention to be able to return them to the owner unaltered. Sam Thank you Sam. I will let you know what happens when the sensors are changed out and likely get the old ones to you. It would be great if any other owners (who have experienced this frustrating problem who have changed the TPSs and the problem was resolved), would send the old suspect sensors to Sam for testing. If anyone reading is a little unsure of doing this, I and many others as well, can vouch for Sam's knowledge and expertise in this area, so send him the pieces. :)

Sam, We dont have any sensors here from customers machines. If we get any, I will be more than happy to send them to you. Kevin info@mrcycles.com

I'll be interested to see that the outcome is with all this because I have been thinking about getting an 04 or 05 R1 recently, but this problem is very disconcerting and is putting me off getting one at all.

I have had a thought; if the problem was global and affecting the majority of these bikes, surely Yamaha as a reputable company would have to take responsibility and do something about it, so is this a more isolated problem?

Originally posted by mjpartyboy I'll be interested to see that the outcome is with all this because I have been thinking about getting an 04 or 05 R1 recently, but this problem is very disconcerting and is putting me off getting one at all. With all of these bikes having the same problem and Yamaha sitting on thier ass counting money. Do you really want to go through the bull $hit that were going through? Think long and hard about this bike...

Originally posted by mjpartyboy I have had a thought; if the problem was global and affecting the majority of these bikes, surely Yamaha as a reputable company would have to take responsibility and do something about it, so is this a more isolated problem? I agree with you ;) Already made a similare post regarding this matter were also i asked if this problem concers US r1's only ? or also the europe ones as well ? But had no answer back for this... The main point is, to see if this problem is about some sort of modification in the fuel injection system or similar parts due to restrictions for specific region... I am sure that there are members on this great forum that are from Europe and own an R1..

Originally posted by Firetank I agree with you ;) Already made a similare post regarding this matter were also i asked if this problem concers US r1's only ? or also the europe ones as well ? But had no answer back for this... The main point is, to see if this problem is about some sort of modification in the fuel injection system or similar parts due to restrictions for specific region... I am sure that there are members on this great forum that are from Europe and own an R1.. So far at least one UK and Holland bike have been mentioned in this thread (I haven't read every page yet). I can't find any UK sites that talk about this (or in depth UK R1 sites in general) or have heard about this in the UK other than what's been said on here. It's disappointing because the 04 bike I'm supposed to be a looking at tomorrow isn't local (the bike has 1,285 miles on it) and I don't know if it's worth the journey now.

I still believe this to be isolated to a small majority of machines compared to the actual run numbers for '04 - '05. I for one, have not had one single problem with mine (over 5000 mi.). I probably know of at least 12 owners personally who have not had any problems either. I've never even met another owner personally other than on here who has. It truly sucks when your machine malfunctions and I can empathize with people who've had problems, but to label the bike and the company as junk is a total misrepresentation. If it were truly a wide spread problem, Yamaha would recall. As it is, I believe Yamaha has decided to handle it as warranty claim on a "as needed" basis. The fact that there are multi revisions to the TPS raises an eyebrow, but still, not ALL bikes exhibit this condition. As stated in many other threads, other brands have had their troubles too. Just hope you guys get your bikes fixed!

Originally posted by RTSR1 I still believe this to be isolated to a small majority of machines compared to the actual run numbers for '04 - '05. I for one, have not had one single problem with mine (over 5000 mi.). I probably know of at least 12 owners personally who have not had any problems either. I've never even met another owner personally other than on here who has. It truly sucks when your machine malfunctions and I can empathize with people who've had problems, but to label the bike and the company as junk is a total misrepresentation. If it were truly a wide spread problem, Yamaha would recall. As it is, I believe Yamaha has decided to handle it as warranty claim on a "as needed" basis. The fact that there are multi revisions to the TPS raises an eyebrow, but still, not ALL bikes exhibit this condition. As stated in many other threads, other brands have had their troubles too. Just hope you guys get your bikes fixed! I know where you are coming from, but on the other hand, the bikes are still new. They are barely a year old now. You said you have 5000mi on your bike, but my problem didn't happen until right at 10,000mi. It has been happening at different mileages for everyone, and MAYBE it's only a matter of time before it starts to happen to a larger portion of the bikes, after everyone's factory warranties expire. I personally know 4 other people with 04 R1s, and 2 of them I know for a fact have the problem(aaask8ter, jborino), and I THINK one other one has the problem, and the last one, my close friend, wrecked his bike before he even got 3000mi on the bike. From your experience with the problem, it seems like it's not that abundant, but from my experience, including my bike and the people I know, it's 3 out of 5 with the problem, which seems like a much bigger deal. I would be interested to see what percentage on here have the problem with the 04 specifically. I never took statistics, but I bet it would be a somewhat good estimation of the percentage of the bikes with the problem if we could find out the total number of board members with 04 R1s, and then the total number of them with the problem. It should be roughly close to the actual percentage of problem bikes in production. I just asked the service department about this yesterday, and I have an appointment set up 3 weeks from now, and they still tell me that they won't do any warranty work unless they can duplicate the problem, unless Yamaha tells them to change it. But first they have to do a diagnostic before even calling Yamaha about it, which is $85, and if they don't find anything wrong, that $85 comes out of MY pocket.

At least if a definitive fix was known, then that would be some peace of mind.

I fixed my problem SOLD the R1 and bought a speed tripple!. Luv it. The bloke that bought my R1 had a new throttle position sensor fitted but has not been able to go for a good ride to try it (winter now). Two bikes so far in Australia affected both over 10,000 kms.

BAD MOVE!!!!!!!!! I sold my triple to buy the r1. problem central. Good luck you will need it. ALOHA

Add me to this list! :( I initially suspected a bad Power Commander to be the cause of my shutting off problem, but I reconnected the stock harnes and the bike just died on me again! Talk about a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! My bike has about 8,200 miles on it, and ran perfectly prior to this. The worst part about this whole ordeal is that my warranty will expire in exactly one month. I brought my bike in to have it serviced about 2 weeks ago, and they couldn't reproduce the problem so I got sent on my way.

i agree that you cant label the whole company. obviously this is an issue but i my self have had not a single problem either. the bike rules dont let this thread be the decicing factor on your purchase.

Originally posted by R1Fanatic Add me to this list! :( I initially suspected a bad Power Commander to be the cause of my shutting off problem, but I reconnected the stock harnes and the bike just died on me again! Talk about a PAIN IN THE ASS!!! My bike has about 8,200 miles on it, and ran perfectly prior to this. The worst part about this whole ordeal is that my warranty will expire in exactly one month. I brought my bike in to have it serviced about 2 weeks ago, and they couldn't reproduce the problem so I got sent on my way. If it's still doing it, take it in while it's still covered. If it stops doing it, I'd at least have them note it in your service records, so that if it goes out afterwards you can argue the fact.

Originally posted by TheBFA I personally know 4 other people with 04 R1s, and 2 of them I know for a fact have the problem(aaask8ter, jborino) Add me to your list, except I gots mine fixed yo! It still amazes me that this is still going on. My bike started acting up around 7000 miles. I got it fixed somwhere between 8-9000 (back in October!!!!!). I now have over 22,000 and it's running as strong as ever.

Originally posted by RUFFSTUFF Add me to your list, except I gots mine fixed yo! It still amazes me that this is still going on. My bike started acting up around 7000 miles. I got it fixed somwhere between 8-9000 (back in October!!!!!). I now have over 22,000 and it's running as strong as ever. What did they do to fix yours?? Thank you

Check way back in the beginning of this thread.... Yamaha replaced the entire throttle body... After replacing the TPS's, ignition switch, spark plugs, draining and refilling the gas tank, swapping ECU's...

I like the idea of bench testing the defective TPS. The problem is my ride hasn't gone flakey for thousands of miles. I know it's just a matter of time ......... Sam how are you testing the TPS? DC scope? KK

Originally posted by kornking I like the idea of bench testing the defective TPS. The problem is my ride hasn't gone flakey for thousands of miles. I know it's just a matter of time ......... Sam how are you testing the TPS? DC scope? KK Oscilloscope, 5VDC supply & 'pull-up' resistor. The resistor gets connected to the 5 V supply and also the TPS output signal line. If the TPS has a 'bad spot', the output signal line essentially becomes electrically 'disconnected' from the sensor element. The pull-up resistor performs the function of maintaining electrical connection and also 'pulls' the signal up to 5V. When the sensor input is physically rotated, the TPS output signal should smoothly and linearly represent the rotary input position as viewed on the oscilloscope screen. If a 'bad spot' is encountered, due to the resistor connection, the signal will 'jump' up to 5V, thus making the bad spot easily identifiable. Sam

For those of you unfamiliar with my background, I have worked in a hydraulics research & development lab for over 25 years developing and troubleshooting electro-hydraulic and electro-mechanical control systems on agricultural and construction mobile equipment. This includes microprocessor-based control electronics (very similar to the ECU) and associated velocity and position sensors (like the TPS). Despite the fact that this sounds like a very comprehensive job description, it is just a small portion of all the functions I have performed over the years. In fact, as of June 1 2005, I have been put in charge of all testing done in our new $3,000,000 Noise/Vibration/Harshness testing facility. As if this doesn’t sound like bragging yet, I am most likely the best electro-mechanical-hydraulic troubleshooter you will ever meet. I have a knack for mentally visualizing complete systems and actually ‘seeing’ what is wrong. I think I just put my arm out of joint from patting myself on the back! Here are some of my thoughts: Because this problem seems to develop as a function of miles ridden (miles ridden is pretty much in direct proportion to engine running hours, which I suspect is the real factor of concern), rather than solely the passage of time. I believe a major contributing factor is mechanical wear of some type. In other words, I don’t suspect this is some sort of software bug in the ECU. Because of the intimate association of the TPS with the problem (it is, of course, the THROTTLE position sensor), it certainly is a suspect. With that said, there is also evidence that in some cases replacement of the TPS did not cure the problem. Intuitively, I suspect the true source of the problem is elsewhere, but I cannot discount the TPS and therefore wish to investigate it further. I would like to be able to include it as a possibility, or discount it, dependent upon the findings. The stalling problem seems to occur at low throttle settings and also on some bikes only when the engine is not yet up to operating temperature. Also, it is most often ‘cured’ by simply power cycling the ECU. I think these are important clues. As I see it, the list of suspects, in no particular order are: · ECU · Basic injection algorithm and associated sensors (includes TPS) · Fuel injection compensation algorithm and associated sensors · Fuel injectors · Fuel delivery system Of all these possibilities there is only item that is affected by low throttle position, dynamic temperature gradient, mechanical wear, and ECU power cycling. That item is the injectors. Granted, the problem could be a combination of factors, but my experience has been to look at a single simple cause first. Nine times out of ten it is the simplest explanation that defines the problem. The scenario I envision is one where the injector, by design (not intentionally), begins to prematurely wear, either due to inappropriate tolerances, geometry, surface finish, materials, or any combination of the above. This wear increases the friction within the injector. Due to this additional friction, a given injector duty cycle no longer equates to a given average orifice size. This then means that the amount of fuel for a given duty cycle is most likely reduced. This additional friction will have the greatest effect on small injector duty cycles, such as when the throttle is closed or near closed. In addition, when an engine is in the process of warming up, the engine components are exposed to dynamic temperature gradients. A dynamic temperature gradient can create distortions in the injector geometry. If the additional injector friction is a function of surface finish or geometric tolerance, the dynamic temperature gradient distortion could likely add to the friction component and worsen the effect. Once the injector temperature gradient stabilizes, the geometric distortion may become less of an aiding factor in the friction component. I have long felt that the cold engine hard-starting problem experienced by some 2002 to present R1 owners is a function of injector design. I have suspected that fuel atomization is marginal for cold weather starting. Poor atomization leads to poor vaporization of the highly volatile hydrocarbon components present in gasoline. It is these highly volatile components that ignite when engine internals are cool/cold, and thus ‘start’ a cold engine. Granted, additional friction due to wear would not likely cause the cold starting problem. This is because the injector duty cycle for cold start conditions is high, but it is a well-known problem that I feel is injector related; another nail in the injector’s coffin, if you will. I won’t discount the possibility the stalling and starting problems are related, but I won’t go so far as to say they are without actually looking into the problem. So, if I haven’t totally turned everybody off with my technical arrogance, send me them ‘bad’ TPS’s so we can get on with this investigation!! Sam

ass i say before the problem is 100% from the tps first time ive just rotated by hand so then problem go for a wile from about 3 month ago ive clean my tps no problem till now and by the way the weather here is going hot so my fan is aproximately always on so for me its from the tps ass many of yours guys :jump hope this will help :thumbup

Originally posted by sous ass i say before the problem is 100% from the tps first time ive just rotated by hand so then problem go for a wile from about 3 month ago ive clean my tps no problem till now and by the way the weather here is going hot so my fan is aproximately always on so for me its from the tps ass many of yours guys :jump hope this will help :thumbup Indexing the TPS will change the relationship between throttle position and injector duty cycle. If my educated guess in regard to the injectors being the real culprit is true (which it certainly may not be cuz its only a guess), indexing the TPS does not solve the problem; just masks it. I believe cleaning the external surface of the TPS is unrelated to the fix. The TPS is sealed so there is no way to clean it internally. Keep us posted on your bike. I hope the problem never returns for you! Sam

Hey Sam, I don't know if you came across my post before, but there was just something I noticed that may or may not be related. Given your background, you may know more about it than me. There is a known issue with the Escort 8500 radar detector and the R1, and possibly other detectors. Something on the R1 sets the detector off whenever you accelerate hard. The thing is, when my bike was new, it only went off when I was going "balls-to-the-wall". As my bike got more miles, it started going off with less throttle input, and now it's to the point that any mild acceleration sets it off. THe reason I think this has anything to do with the stalling issue is that my bike stalled 3 days in a row at the same exact spot, well within 20 feet of eachother, when I was pulling into work. I work on a military base near the flight line, and the road I pull into is a one way road that I also use to exit work. Every time I leave work, my radar detector goes off due to some emissions from the flight line area. When I pull into work, I am facing the same direction, but not close enough to set the detector off. I just think there may be a little more than coincedence that my bike stalled 3 times in the same spot where I know there is EM radiation. Another thing is that is one of the spots on base that cell phones don't work. I myself have suspected something ignition related. I know ignition wires give off EM radiation, which can affect eachother, which is why they need to be spaced apart and quality wires have better EM sheilding. I think there may be an increase of EM radiation created by the bike or it becomes more susceptible to it somehow as the mileage increases, somewhat evident by my radar detector being more affected by the throttle response. Maybe other bikes stall when in the vicinity of EM sources like powerlines or electric doors. This is just a guess, and I just think it's a possible scenario, or just a huge coincidence on my bike.

ass i see from my tps when i removed there is a space in between the tps and the rotation in mm. not prety but when i spray on it the rotation is more easy to rotate (a bit clean rotation ) you can feel the different when u spray it ...:) give it a shot

Sam, I haven't removed the original TPSs yet, will keep you posted. I have a question for you: could the problem also be related, directly or indirectly, to the thermal wax plunger? Been wondering about this.... Also, in both instances where my bike shut off, it was mid turn on one, and slightly past midturn on the other. IOW, the bike was leaned significantly. Some kind of problem interaction with the lean angle sensor? Just thinking out loud....

Originally posted by TheBFA Hey Sam, I don't know if you came across my post before, but there was just something I noticed that may or may not be related. Given your background, you may know more about it than me. There is a known issue with the Escort 8500 radar detector and the R1, and possibly other detectors. Something on the R1 sets the detector off whenever you accelerate hard. The thing is, when my bike was new, it only went off when I was going "balls-to-the-wall". As my bike got more miles, it started going off with less throttle input, and now it's to the point that any mild acceleration sets it off. THe reason I think this has anything to do with the stalling issue is that my bike stalled 3 days in a row at the same exact spot, well within 20 feet of eachother, when I was pulling into work. I work on a military base near the flight line, and the road I pull into is a one way road that I also use to exit work. Every time I leave work, my radar detector goes off due to some emissions from the flight line area. When I pull into work, I am facing the same direction, but not close enough to set the detector off. I just think there may be a little more than coincedence that my bike stalled 3 times in the same spot where I know there is EM radiation. Another thing is that is one of the spots on base that cell phones don't work. I myself have suspected something ignition related. I know ignition wires give off EM radiation, which can affect eachother, which is why they need to be spaced apart and quality wires have better EM sheilding. I think there may be an increase of EM radiation created by the bike or it becomes more susceptible to it somehow as the mileage increases, somewhat evident by my radar detector being more affected by the throttle response. Maybe other bikes stall when in the vicinity of EM sources like powerlines or electric doors. This is just a guess, and I just think it's a possible scenario, or just a huge coincidence on my bike. Now this is an interesting post. I will admit that I have not taken the time to go through all the pages of this topic (it would probably take me until retirement to get through them all) so I was not previously familiar with your accounting. In this light, if anyone has something they have previously posted that they feel may help, I would appreciate you bringing it to my attention by either reposting or at least give me a page number so I can go back and take a look at it. TIA. Your accounting of the possibility of the ECU being both an excessive EM radiator and also possibly having an EM susceptibility issue is intriguing. The Escort alarming upon acceleration and alarming at lower and lower acceleration levels over time I find interesting and something I have never heard before. My guess is the offending radiation source is the injector drivers, rather than ignition. The reason I say this is because the Escort false triggering is a function of acceleration, as you have stated, rather than simply engine speed. The engine spark-timing (phase) changes with acceleration (to be more precise; throttle position), but that should have no effect on the Escort. The reason for this is the ignition pulse amplitude and duration does not change as a function of acceleration. The only thing that changes is the ignition pulse frequency, and that changes in direct proportion to engine speed, not acceleration. The injector pulse however maintains a constant frequency regardless of engine speed or acceleration, but its duration (i.e. duty cycle) is in direct proportion to acceleration. The engine’s highest fuel demands come about at high engine speed and accelerations. The solid-state drivers (most likely smart-FETs) within the ECU that provide current to the ignitor coils and also the injectors are probably very similar, if not identical to one another. Any driver circuit differences between injectors and ignitors are most likely from differences in passive support component values and configuration. Due to voltage spikes generated from the inductive loads (the ignitor coils and injector coils are inductors by definition) some of the driver support components perform the function of protecting the drivers from these spikes. MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors) are sometimes used in a ‘protector role’. MOVs are often used as the sole protective component in some of the lesser expensive computer and audio equipment ‘surge suppressor’ AC outlet strips. The bad thing about MOVs is that they degrade ever so slightly every time that they are hit with a voltage spike. If MOVs are being used to protect the injector drivers in the R1 ECU, it is possible they are slowly degrading and thus allowing the radiated emissions to increase over time (spikes = emissions). If this is the case, not only does it increase the likelihood that the ECU will interfere with other electronic devices in close proximity as time goes on, but it also could lead to premature driver failure. Addressing the apparent EM susceptibility of the ECU, I will say that EM field strength on or near a military base may in fact exceed what the ECU is rated to withstand. Loss of cell phone communication can be indicative of field strengths that are quite high. Has your bike stalled on any other occasions other than the three described? When stalling, does it feel abrupt? Does it require a power cycle (ignition OFF/ON) to recover from it? Was the throttle position closed or close to being closed when stalling occurred? Sam

Originally posted by Eyespy Sam, I haven't removed the original TPSs yet, will keep you posted. I have a question for you: could the problem also be related, directly or indirectly, to the thermal wax plunger? Been wondering about this.... Also, in both instances where my bike shut off, it was mid turn on one, and slightly past midturn on the other. IOW, the bike was leaned significantly. Some kind of problem interaction with the lean angle sensor? Just thinking out loud.... I would have to say that if I were to put together a list of the things that are probably the most least likely to have anything to do with this problem, in that list would be the thermostat (thermal wax plunger). The thermostat regulates water flow and thus helps to rid the engine of heat from I.C. engine inefficiency; no connection in my mind. Would you say the throttle was closed or near closed when you experienced the stall? What did the stall feel like? What I mean by this is did it feel like a lean-out, or did it feel very abrupt? Did you have to cycle the power to recover from it? Have you had any other occurrences other than the two that you describe as being leaned-over quite far? Sam

Originally posted by Sam Farris Has your bike stalled on any other occasions other than the three described? When stalling, does it feel abrupt? Does it require a power cycle (ignition OFF/ON) to recover from it? Was the throttle position closed or close to being closed when stalling occurred? Sam It has stalled other than that. But EVERY SINGLE TIME it happened was when I was putting around, going very slow, and the only fix was to cycle the power on and off, and it started up normal. The first time was in traffic when it was pretty much at a stand still and I was on a road in front of a shopping center. It was a hot day, the fan kicked on, and I had the clutch in, and when I went to move, it stalled on me. I thought I popped the clutch, but it wouldn't idle again when I tried to start it multiple times. I could keep it running by holding the throttle open a little, but it would always die when I closed it. Then I remembered this thread and tried to cycle the power and it was like magic. The next time I washed my bike and I was riding very slow around my parking lot complex to warm the chain up and slow enough to minimize water flying off the tires onto my bike. It ended up dying twice in about 15 minutes of this. It starts out as running rough, then when I disengage the clutch, it dies. Both times needed power cycled to idle again. At work, the "3 day in a row" episode, I have to slow down to go over speed bumps. So I go pretty slow through there. The first two days both happened right after the second speed bump. On the third day, I purposely slowed down a little sooner, and low and behold, it stalled a little sooner than the days before. My bike ran fine for awhile, until one day I let my voltage drop too low because I killed the engine to talk to a friend and left the key in the on position too long. The voltage dropped enough to reset my shift light and related settings, couldn't start the bike, but the clock still kept the correct time. I push started the bike, and later that day, after my bike had cooled, I went out again, but I barely let it get warm enough to register digits on the temp readout, and intended to just let it warm up as I take it slow out of my apartment complex, and it died as I came to a stop at the median to cross the road. The last time, I was going really slow around this new outdoor mall they have here, looking for a Radio Shack. I was going under 15mph for about 5 minutes, and the engine started to run rough, and I tried to give it some more throttle to keep it running, but as soon as I had to pull the clutch in to come to a stop, it stalled. Had to cycle power again to get it to idle. So my trend is that it happens only when I have been going slow. I normally let my bike warm up to at least 150F, but every once in awhile I'll just wait until it gets to around 110, and then I ride really easy until it warms up. I didn't really have an understanding of EVERYTHING you wrote about, but I caught a whiff that there may be something in the ECU that wears out after awhile. Sorry I wrote so much. I just thought an accurate account may help rule out some things and create suspicion of others. Oh yeah, to specifically answer your questions, the poor running condition does come on abruptly, but from what I can tell, only in very low RPMS, then that running condition turns into the stall when the throttle is closed or very near closed. I would say under 1000 rpms. There were the same conditions every time for me.

Originally posted by Sam Farris I would have to say that if I were to put together a list of the things that are probably the most least likely to have anything to do with this problem, in that list would be the thermostat (thermal wax plunger). The thermostat regulates water flow and thus helps to rid the engine of heat from I.C. engine inefficiency; no connection in my mind. Would you say the throttle was closed or near closed when you experienced the stall? What did the stall feel like? What I mean by this is did it feel like a lean-out, or did it feel very abrupt? Did you have to cycle the power to recover from it? Have you had any other occurrences other than the two that you describe as being leaned-over quite far? Sam My thought about the thermal wax plunger was related to the possibility that some component with an excesssive heat sensitivity could possibly be forced into some kind of failure mode if some thermal threshold were breached. Okay, unlikely, thanks. RE the throttle position at the time of engine cut out, I did forget to tell you that in addition to the high lean angle, throttle position was probably partially opened, just a crack, and neutral to gentle roll on. In both instances, the engine shut off was abrubt, instantaneous. Imagine taking a corner , and at or near the apex, you are leaned over, and then hit the kill switch. After the first incident, the engine could start up immediately. It then went into forced hibernation for one year stripped down to rolling chassis with motor, while the bike was gradually repaired (subframe, fuel tank, plastics, various brackets, exhaust, clip ons, rear-sets, stuff like that, nothing electronic or mechanical in the motor). The bike had a PCIII in both instances, was custom mapped only an hour or two before the 2nd failure. AFter the 2nd failure, the engine would not start for 24 hours. It would crank, but not fire, the fuel pump was making pressure. An interesting thing I just remembered: Right before I took the bike onto the track leading to the 2ns failure, the fuel light on the instrument cluster was lit, even though there was nowhere near a n empty tank...it was about 3/4 full at least. It was postulated by a mechanic/tuner that the sensor for the fuel level might be stuck, and to take the bike out on the track and that should "jiggle" it free. On the start of the second lap, that's when the bike shut off. After the bike was trucked back in, even though it would crank, not fire, and you could hear the fuel pump power up, and there was fuel pressure in the line to the throttle bodies, the fuel light would come on when the ignition was turned on. One other thing, I noticed there was some paint flaking inside the fuel filler neck in the tank, this was only the second day I ran the bike since it was painted and started up. I cleaned all that off later, but maybe some got into the gas. Could that shut the motor off suddenly? So far, the problem remains ellusive...

Jason & Eyespy: Kudos to you both for supplying the level of detail that really helps in trying to figure out what is the real source of trouble with this condition. Due to the level of detail provided I now have a lot more information to work with. I think I am going to take the time to go back and skim over the previous pages and see if anything ‘jumps out’ at me as being additional significant detail. If it is one thing I have learned over the years is to be careful as to what you mentally ‘screen-out’ as being insignificant. I have been bit in the ass more than once by ignoring some seemingly superficial anecdotal information. Jason: I gotta’ hand it to you man. Your recall of detail is incredible! It was damn-near like I was standing right next to you as it was happening! No,…I take that back. It was more like it was happening to me! Awesome! I believe that what you are experiencing appears to display the classic symptoms of this condition. Due to the added detail of your latest post, I suspect the three stalling occurrences at the base were due to conditions created by the bike and not the function of EM emissions from an external source. The reason I say this is because you influenced the condition by changing the timing of throttle input, and that then changed the timing of the stall. From your input, I am now pondering the possibility that either basic or compensation injection duration is being compromised by erroneous sensor input. Either that, or memory (flash?) degradation within the ECU. At idle, or near idle, the inputs that affect injection duration are: 1. Throttle position (TPS) 2. Engine rpm (crankshaft position sensor a.k.a. ignition pick-up) 3. Intake air pressure (some call this the MAP sensor) 4. Battery voltage So, I am going to take this all in, along with any other info I can glean from previous posts, and come up with some possible scenarios and how we might then go about testing these. Believe me, I am well aware that if this were something relatively simple, a source and solution would have been found by now. I am not under any kind of delusion that I will have this solved in a matter of a day or two! Eyespy: At first I thought your condition might have been simply one of tripping the lean-angle sensor. Because of the fact that you did not require a power cycle to regain the ability to crank the engine over, that then pretty-well rules that out. I will say that if in the spill the power somehow was momentarily interrupted to the ECU, which would then account for the ability to crank-over without needing to cycle the ignition/key-switch. I have designed a by-pass circuit for the lean-angle cut-off switch that can be used as a diagnostic aid. It is not meant as a permanent replacement for the switch, because if in the event of a spill, the high-pressure fuel pump will continue to pressurize the injectors and also continue to deliver excess fuel back to the fuel tank. Having an element actively pumping fuel while the bike is down can be a very dangerous situation. If you are interested in such a circuit I will post it for you. Insofar as the fuel level indicator, it is curious, but most likely coincidental. With that said, I do not plan on ignoring its possible significance in this investigation. Also, the tuner/mechanic did/does not understand how the fuel level sensor operates. The sensor has no ‘float’ element, but is instead a resistive element that changes resistance in accordance to the percentage of its surface area that is wetted by fuel. On the surface your stalling experiences do not seem to fall within the ‘classic’ stalling symptoms. I think yours may in fact be lean-angle sensor associated. You may want to check its physical orientation (very important!) or possibly try my bypass circuit and see if the problem disappears. Sam

Sam, can i get one of the lean angle sensor bypasses from you? Thanks again. I didn't buy the idea of the "stuck" fuel level sensor, but how you describe its function reinforces that initial doubt.

Originally posted by Eyespy Sam, can i get one of the lean angle sensor bypasses from you? Thanks again. I didn't buy the idea of the "stuck" fuel level sensor, but how you describe its function reinforces that initial doubt. I don't have one built, but it is relatively straight forward in its construction. It is simply an LED and a resistor. I don't have access to the image file of the electrical schematic at the moment, but will post it later. Sam

I forgot to add something that may also hint towards something. Ever since this started happening, which isn't really that often for me, (every one of those instances since March) I feel like there is a loss of power. The only reason I can tell this is from trying to do wheelies. I can't get it up at the same speeds I used to. I have to go about 5-10mph faster in 2nd to get the wheel up with the same amount of effort I used to. If you happened to go through the other pages, you will probably notice that people who claim that the problem has been fixed for them by replacing the TPS(s), also say their bike runs like a "scalded dog" afterwards. I'm thinking the loss of power was so subtle that they didn't notice it until they got the problem fixed (some temporary) and then it was all of a sudden all back again. This leaves me to believe that whatever is causing the stalling issue, may also be related to a loss of horsepower. My loss of power doesn't come and go like the stalling issue. It's always there now.

Originally posted by TheBFA I forgot to add something that may also hint towards something. Ever since this started happening, which isn't really that often for me, (every one of those instances since March) I feel like there is a loss of power. The only reason I can tell this is from trying to do wheelies. I can't get it up at the same speeds I used to. I have to go about 5-10mph faster in 2nd to get the wheel up with the same amount of effort I used to. If you happened to go through the other pages, you will probably notice that people who claim that the problem has been fixed for them by replacing the TPS(s), also say their bike runs like a "scalded dog" afterwards. I'm thinking the loss of power was so subtle that they didn't notice it until they got the problem fixed (some temporary) and then it was all of a sudden all back again. This leaves me to believe that whatever is causing the stalling issue, may also be related to a loss of horsepower. My loss of power doesn't come and go like the stalling issue. It's always there now. Once again, some very useful information. This information, in my mind, bolsters the possibility that either basic or compensation injection duration is being compromised by erroneous sensor input. Thanks Jason :D Sam

another thing since i run an wideband commander on my byke i notice that when the stall begin(and the idlle drop)the wideband read an 11:1 a/f ratio reading wich is pretty below the 13:1 normaly reading. so(like i was assuming before i was installed the wideband)the bike is comming in a "reach" condition. hope that helps!

Originally posted by ahamay another thing since i run an wideband commander on my byke i notice that when the stall begin(and the idlle drop)the wideband read an 11:1 a/f ratio reading wich is pretty below the 13:1 normaly reading. so(like i was assuming before i was installed the wideband)the bike is comming in a "reach" condition. hope that helps! ...and the really good information just keeps ah' rollin' in! Thanks ahamay!!

Originally posted by charleysr1 I fixed my problem SOLD the R1 and bought a speed tripple!. Luv it. The bloke that bought my R1 had a new throttle position sensor fitted but has not been able to go for a good ride to try it (winter now). Two bikes so far in Australia affected both over 10,000 kms. You can add my bike to that list. I first posted back on page 4 or 5. That was at 4000km. It's now at 14,000km and it's a lot worse. Every ride it will play up. It reminds me of riding an old two-stroke I used to have. It won't idle and it wants to die unless you pull in the clutch and open the throttle. It is very much like a switch, the bike will fart and shudder and carry on until the throttle is opened to a certain point and then picks up and runs fine. Small throttle openings don't help it even when the revs rise, but once the throttle is opened a little more it's fine. Sometimes turning off the key will help, but most of the time it just keeps playing up. I am waiting for the TPS sensors to come in so it can be changed under warranty. The Yamaha guy I've been talking to here knows of the problem on a few bikes and changing the TPS seems to have worked on them. Only time will tell I guess. Lee.

i have the same problem with my 2004 r1 bought it used but got the extended warranty smart move i think it just happend the other night and in the morning so im pretty pissed so i copied all these complaints and im taking them to the yamaha dealer where i got the extended warranty from so wish me luck:mad: :mad: :argue :mad: :argue :mad:by the way it has 5100 miles on it :boom

Partial update, changed out the TPS (primary an secondary). Also, was getting an error code for the EXUP (18 I think). It was apparently malfunctioning and was closing up. The speculation being that if it is closing completely, it would stall the motor. Has anyone disassembled the EXUP valve and if so, is it possible for it to be closed completely, closing off all exhaust flow? I didn't think it could actually close tightly enough for that, but if you know otherwise, I would be interested. But in any event, the EXUP is not working and not responding to any fixes, so Yamaha is sending me a new one. Depending on how long this takes, I could have the new one on by Friday. My next sheduled track time in which to test this fix (new EXUP and new TPSs would be on Aug 2nd at Buttonwillow. In the meantime, I will send the original TPSs to Sam for testing.

Originally posted by Eyespy Partial update, changed out the TPS (primary an secondary). Also, was getting an error code for the EXUP (18 I think). It was apparently malfunctioning and was closing up. The speculation being that if it is closing completely, it would stall the motor. Has anyone disassembled the EXUP valve and if so, is it possible for it to be closed completely, closing off all exhaust flow? I didn't think it could actually close tightly enough for that, but if you know otherwise, I would be interested. But in any event, the EXUP is not working and not responding to any fixes, so Yamaha is sending me a new one. Depending on how long this takes, I could have the new one on by Friday. My next sheduled track time in which to test this fix (new EXUP and new TPSs would be on Aug 2nd at Buttonwillow. In the meantime, I will send the original TPSs to Sam for testing. Eyespy, I have an extra exup header, I will double check but I don't think the valve closes that tight. I will try and get a pic posted up. Les

I have an 04 R1 with a Full Yoshimura TRS system, PC3 USB, and BMC air filter. It has about 13000 miles on it and in the last 1000 miles this problem has occured. It is the same as everybody else has decribed. When it gets hot....well it doesnt even need to get hot anymore..it begins to get a crappy idle and then comes on the lurching. Now I have even noticed it missing like hell instead of the whole lurching thing. And when I say miss it must be dropping at least two cylinders. Now I am an aircraft mechanic.. and I like my stuff to run the way it is supposed to. I took it to the dealer at first thought it could have been spark plugs. Changed them out and even went to hotter plugs due to the extra fuel I am dumping into the cylinders. No difference. Then the dealership started playing there stupid little guessing game and instead of actually doing any work that may have helped them figure the problem out guess what the did. Call me and tell me they dont know what is wrong because it wont reproduce the same symptoms. So I ride it home and of course the whole dam way home it does it and of course they have closed. Take it beack the second time and here goes the guess of ECU which may not be too far off because I think it is a erroneous signal from some sensor. So they adjust my PC3... why I dont know..i guess cause it was the easy thing to do. I go get it, ride it and after 2 hours of riding it starts doing it again. Take it back again and now they are stumped so they just say we dont know what is wrong and we cant fix it until Yamaha does a recall. SO I take it back today and they finally call yamaha tech support and I guess Yamaha has said it is there TPS sensor on the throttle bodies. There are two so if anybody have the one replaced on the handlebars go back and have the other one done. SO tomorrow I will have the new TPS put on and I will give an update to let yall know if it works. GOOd luck

Checked the clearances on the exup valve when closed on my spare pipe. Clearance is >than3/16" around full perimeter of both blades of exup valve. I think it is unlikely that it could stall the motor, it could howeever reduce the HP to 25 (guess) in the closed position. Pics did not come out well.

It's amazing how different the dealerships treat customers. I stopped by the local dealer to see if they could preorder the two TPS's so that when I come in for my appointment, all they have to do is see there is a problem and then change them out. The girl there said they couldn't call yamaha until they saw the problem first. When I got home I was going to call the yamaha customer service line, but then I remembered there was another dealership about 45 minutes away in St. Augustine, so I called them about it. I told him about the different part numbers and the one I needed to fix it. He told me to call on friday to see if they come in because he is going to order them. Then if they are in on Friday, I can stop by and he can just swap them out to see if it fixes the problem. One service department won't lift a finger to help me, but the other one will preorder the parts for me and change it out without even seeing my bike first. By the way, the sorry service department is Ron Turner's in Jax, and the good one is US1 Powersports in St. Augustine. UpOnOne- If you are in Daytona still, see about going to US1 Powersports. It's probably only about 45 minutes from Daytona.

I've been a little busy lately. Sorry. I'll be looking forward to receiving the TPS Eyespy. Due to your symptoms being much different than the 'classic' examples described here, I suspect the TPS is not the culprit in your case. In that light, the results of evaluating your TPS I would consider inconclusive, but certainly of value and good information. Those of you that are having this problem, how many have a PCIII installed, and how many do not? TIA Sam

Well it finally happened to me. I have 7600 miles on my 2004 R-1. Teo weeks ago I noticed the tac spool up and settle at 2500? or so instead of returning to 0 when I keyed the bike up. Thought it strange, re keyed then started the bike. All normal. Started noticing I was stalling the bike on occasion the last couple of days. Odd because I haven't stalled it for close to a year. Then yesterday at a stop the idle dropped to about500, ran rough as hell then would die as I tried to start out. Shut the bike off with the key and started it about an hour latter. Ran fine for about 10 min. then started the 500 rpm idle again. Started it this morning and it ran fine. If need be I can give more detail but my typing is poor to say the least. I will have the local Yamaha shop run a diognostic test to see if the tac issue showed up and then go from there. I don't have the extended warrenty and I've had the bike one year and four months.

Guess What-you got it--it started again. I was one of the first few with this probelm they replaced my ECU and entire throttlebody--as my original concern--what happens when i put another 6k will the new part which has the original TPS-and it shut off while i was comming to a stop in rush hour on the highway. WEll it's off to get version 3 of the TPS put in BUT we wont know until another 6k if they work. I am at 20,000km the new tbody was replaced at ~14k--my original problems started at 7k. YAMAHA is sucking big time--pure BS--will one of you guys in the US get a hold of those cheap lawyers that likes to sue anyone---Ireally think you would win considering this log with LOTS of notices to Yamaha since LAST year. MAybe that will get this crap resolved. Good Luck to the rest of you.

I had this problem when my bike was stock and with the PCIII. Its always been the best looking piece of crap motorcycle I have ever owned.

Originally posted by aaask8tr I had this problem when my bike was stock and with the PCIII. Its always been the best looking piece of crap motorcycle I have ever owned. Your taillight isn't so good looking...:2bitchsla I might be riding down to St Augustine tomorrow to get the 3rd ver. TPS installed if they got them in. My bike is so ugly right now. I don't have the lowers, mids, or airbox cover on it, and my lower tail fairing is red. I'm going to be embarrassed pulling up on it when I show up to the dealership down there.

Ok, part isn't in yet, so I'll be going next week. Sam, Has anyone given you any bad TPS's yet? I'll ask if I can keep my old ones when I get them replaced and I'll send them to you. I might be able to get them to you by Friday. By the way, My bike is stalling a lot more often now, but it's starting to act different. It feels like I got more power back, but with that, I have BAD surging in 2nd and 3rd gear when cruising around 60-75 mph. The only mods I have are slip-ons, which were put on probably 4000 miles before the problem ever occured.

I have the new primary and secondary TPS installed, and I'm ready to package the old ones and send them. I have marked them "primary" and "secondary" so they can be differentiated. Sam, should I use the addy on your website: (P.O Box 1075 Lakeville, Mn. 55044-1075) ?

Took my bike to the local Yamaha shop to have them run a few test on it and to start a paper trail. They called Yamaha USA for any insite on the problem and got nowhere. Were told to reproduce the problem. What the fcuk good would that do? I gave them a mountian of information, recomended they look into this web page and YUSA acts as though they have never heard of this problem. I called them and for 50 minutes tried to get some where with them. Nothing. They did record the call and the guy taking my call logged my complates about their tech section. I was very proffesional and let them know the bike was out of warrenty and I knew I would be footing the bill, I just wanted their input to the problem. I told the guy I knew Yamaha knew about the problem from all the calls from you guys here, still nothing. Very frustrating to say the least.

Add me to the list :( My problem started at roughly 12,700 miles just last week. I was riding along around 50mph+ and notice the chugging/hesitant power 3 times, for under a second each time in duration. I pulled over and my buddy and I decided to head back to my house. 2 miles down the road, it happened again coming up to a light, and as I downshifted my bike died on me with the gas light flashing at me (I had over 2 gallons of gas in the tank). I wasn't able to start the bike up (didn't turn the key to the off position and back on) but pushed it to a parking lot where we chilled out for 5 minutes and made a call to the dealership. After letting it sit for the 5 minutes, I started it up and ran fine for another 5 minutes or so before we came to another light and I noticed it idleing extremely low at 700 RPMS. I had to rev the bike just to keep it going at the light. We pulled over within an 1/8th of a mile after that happened and I turned the bike off again and let it sit for 2 minutes. Started it back up and things were normal for another 5 minutes of riding or so. After that 5 minutes it did the hesitant power drain while riding and would idle low at the light. I had to repeat the pull over, turn the bike off, go for 5 minutes thing, 2 more times. Of course the mechanic couldn't replicate the problem, even after riding the bike for 27 miles 2 days later. He called Yamaha and of course they haven't heard of anything similar (interesting.....) so he couldn't do anything for me. I picked up the bike and rode 30 miles that day, experiencing the hesitation twice. Since then I have logged around 300 more miles and experienced the hesitation while in the 50-60mph range while in 2nd or 3rd gear, but not the low idle. That said, I have stalled the bike 3 times while leaving a light, which I think is related to this problem. I say that because in the 13k miles I have put on the R1, I can count on one hand the number of times I've stalled while leaving a light like that. Not a coincidence I think. I believe it dropped the RPM as I was leaving the light when this would happen, causing the stall. So I log on here, remember this post and low and behold, look at all these other people having the same issue. WhyTF is Yamaha saying they haven't heard of any similar issues? This is a SERIOUS issue that has already caused atleast 2 wrecks (eyespy) and who knows how many others. I have started to keep a log of when I experience these issues, so I can reference that in the future if I need to, especially if I get injured as a result.... Is anyone keeping a list of how many people this has effected? I have the Y.E.S. warranty, so I'm not too concerned with out of pocket expenses at the moment, but even out of warranty owners should IMHO not need to worry about it either. None of us paid $11k to experience life threatening problems like this a year down the road. I'm going down to the dealership to find out what options I have and to get them to contact Yamaha again. Even if they can't reproduce the problem, this post is proof enough that a periodic issue is happening that needs to be addressed. We are putting our lives on the line because Yamaha is not owning up to the issue (yet). The more of us that contact Yamaha directly, the more likely we are to get this TRULY addressed (a recall for instance). If any one cares, its bike # 1752.

Interesting, r6heaventnt. If I recall the contents of this thread correctly, besides my experience, your's is the only other one that reports the fuel light despite gas in the tank. I assure you, there are several key Yamaha officials who know about this problem, but so far will not publicly acknowledge it.

Keep in mind, mine only did the flashing gas light the one time too. Other than that, I've had *many* of the hesitation/surges without the light coming into play. Either way, I hope my experience with Yamaha and the dealer turns out well. It looks like that hasn't been the case with many of the guys in this thread....

I have a few questions. After having the bike do it's routine to the point of the low idle, stumbling of the line and dieing, all on the same day. I have since put close to 500 miles on the bike and no problems with it at all! What gives? The day of the problem I had ridden in fairly heavy rain, and the first time in the rain on the bike to speak of. When the problem occured the bike had dried out and it was sunny. I had also trucked the bike to and from Seattle, a 300 mile round trip that same day and had to use the hand grips as a tie down point. I don't know if this additional information is of any use to anyone. I will keep you posted.....

Anyone that is interested in sending their TPS to me for evaluation can send it to the address previously posted. If you would like it returned, please include a return address. My planned testing is simply performance in nature and inherently non-destructive. Your sensor will not be altered or damaged in any way. Also, please include a note describing your bike (model & year), symptoms and also as to whether you have a PCIII installed. Sam

Originally posted by Eyespy I have the new primary and secondary TPS installed, and I'm ready to package the old ones and send them. I have marked them "primary" and "secondary" so they can be differentiated. Sam, should I use the addy on your website: (P.O Box 1075 Lakeville, Mn. 55044-1075) ? Yes, please do. I look forward to testing these eyespy! Sam

Originally posted by TheBFA Ok, part isn't in yet, so I'll be going next week. Sam, Has anyone given you any bad TPS's yet? I'll ask if I can keep my old ones when I get them replaced and I'll send them to you. I might be able to get them to you by Friday. By the way, My bike is stalling a lot more often now, but it's starting to act different. It feels like I got more power back, but with that, I have BAD surging in 2nd and 3rd gear when cruising around 60-75 mph. The only mods I have are slip-ons, which were put on probably 4000 miles before the problem ever occured. I have not received any as of last Friday (the 24th) Jason. I am very interested in evaluating your TPS due to your 'classic' symptoms. Sam

it's been awhile since i have posted in this thread....ihad my TPS replaced in late april....as of today...no problems.i've put about 1700 miles on the bike since then. if anyone would like the info on the dealer that helped me out... STUART YAMAHA.COM 4401 SE FEDERAL HWY STUART, FL 34997-5747 Phone #1: 772-288-7477

Sam, the parts are in the mail and on the way.

I'm due to go in to the dealer tomorrow. I've had parts off my bike getting painted, AND it's been raining like mad here. I would have gone down today, but I sold my extra tank yesterday, and just got my painted one about 2 hours ago, so I couldn't ride my bike there.

After talking to the dealer, who talked to Yamaha about the issue, they are replacing my TPS next week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out.

Originally posted by r6heaventnt After talking to the dealer, who talked to Yamaha about the issue, they are replacing my TPS next week. I'll let you guys know how it turns out. Does this means that they know about the actual problem ...

Originally posted by Firetank Does this means that they know about the actual problem ... I just talked to the guy who ordered the 3rd version of the TPS for me, and I was going to bring my bike in today, but he said that part is on back order, and he said that obviously Yamaha knows something about the problem. He said to call him on Wed because he expects it in then.

Originally posted by Eyespy Sam, the parts are in the mail and on the way. Sweet ! :jump

my bike start the nightmare again today after 5000km with no issue. so the clean and adjus procedure is just a temporary solution... k'mon what's goin' on??

Maybe I should sell the 04 and get the new TTR50E.

Is this an issue on the 05's yet? haven't noticed 05's in the outskirts of this topic. The 03/04 R6's were also having TPS issues (probably old news now here)

:boom

Originally posted by aaask8tr Maybe I should sell the 04 and get the new TTR50E. fREAK!

Well the R1 bug got me too!:eek:

I read up to the 17th page and quit. Too many posts! Had this problem starting last year. Wrecked my bike form this happening in a turn. Whole right side scratched to hell and replaced both foot pegs, both brake levers, handlebar end, still need new clutch plate protector, screws on clutch gouged, scraped then helmet to hell, skinned all the skin off right pointer and middle finger knuckles, scraped belly and chest, etc. I only thought it was the gas and not the bike before reading this. Now my bike is out of warranty and everytime I took it to the dealer complaining about the stalling out, they told me I had to pay for a tune-up, their time troubleshooting the bike, etc. They said if it was a manufacture problem, they would have Yamaha pay for it. Last year I had them check it out, they rode 50 miles and said nothing wrong and charged me over $300.00. 3-4 months later...WRECKED! 2004 R1 5,200 miles when problems started 5,600 miles when wrecked it 7,500 miles now Vin number: 001190 Also, the other night I got gas and 15 minutes later it did this. It was 68 Deg F outside, bike was running 162 Deg F moving and 180-200 stopped. I installed new plugs, oil/filter, and dumped gas. After dumping gas and restarting before doing other repairs. Bike ran fine...but only rode for 15 minutes. Now waiting for new oil plug, (broke when insterting). Problem felt like 3 cyclinders running at idle or less than 2,500-3000 RPM. Bike would stall out and then have to gas it to restart. Stalls at 15-20 MPH or less. When acting up, if I hit the gas...it runs good. It idles around 1,200 RPM when running right.

Also, My bike is 100 % stock...no mods what so ever.

So,10 months later,crashes,etc...and still no fix? Dayum...Yamaha should get one of those defective bikes and gives the owner a lender while they put it to a serious test...now.

Originally posted by Bill2Drunk I read up to the 17th page and quit. Too many posts! Had this problem starting last year. Wrecked my bike form this happening in a turn. Whole right side scratched to hell and replaced both foot pegs, both brake levers, handlebar end, still need new clutch plate protector, screws on clutch gouged, scraped then helmet to hell, skinned all the skin off right pointer and middle finger knuckles, scraped belly and chest, etc. I only thought it was the gas and not the bike before reading this. Now my bike is out of warranty and everytime I took it to the dealer complaining about the stalling out, they told me I had to pay for a tune-up, their time troubleshooting the bike, etc. They said if it was a manufacture problem, they would have Yamaha pay for it. Last year I had them check it out, they rode 50 miles and said nothing wrong and charged me over $300.00. 3-4 months later...WRECKED! 2004 R1 5,200 miles when problems started 5,600 miles when wrecked it 7,500 miles now Vin number: 001190 Also, the other night I got gas and 15 minutes later it did this. It was 68 Deg F outside, bike was running 162 Deg F moving and 180-200 stopped. I installed new plugs, oil/filter, and dumped gas. After dumping gas and restarting before doing other repairs. Bike ran fine...but only rode for 15 minutes. Now waiting for new oil plug, (broke when insterting). Problem felt like 3 cyclinders running at idle or less than 2,500-3000 RPM. Bike would stall out and then have to gas it to restart. Stalls at 15-20 MPH or less. When acting up, if I hit the gas...it runs good. It idles around 1,200 RPM when running right. What a horrible experience. :confused: I only have 5K mi. on mine at this point. Thankfully no problems yet. Doesn't the fact that there are two new versions of TPS indicate that Yamaha DOES know that there's a problem. Does the Better Business Bureau deal on the international corporate level? There must be some agency that can force Yamaha-USA to take action to correct this issue.

I work for Chrysler, and I know they have to test vechicles for hundred of thousands of miles and check for defects...I'm sure the Motorcycle companies have to do the same...now why would they release something with a huge problem if they did all the testing like they should of...? I strongly agree its DANGEROUS...the way it is. I just put the bike up when it acts up since my crash. I will be calling CUSTOMER SERVICE about the problem...which I'm sure I will hear about how I have no WARRANTY now...and its not DEFECTIVE!! But still, if its gas, why didn't the other bikes I was riding with the other night have the same problems when they fueled up after me.....GOOD QUESTION!! Guess I might somewhat rule out gas...by the way...the gas was Marathon 93 Octane.

(Sport Rider magazine. Issue July 2005. Page 106.) The Geek Was Wrong! More info on the Geek's response to Ron Blais with the 2001 GSXR-1000 stalling when the throttle is snapped closed: I had the same issue with my bike. It turned out to be a faulty TPS ( throttle position sensor) on the primary throttle. There is some play between the sensor and the shaft that the TPS internal spring normally takes up; however, something inside causes the rotating part in the TPS to gum up, and when you snap the throttle closed the TPS only slowly rotates to the closed position. Hence, even though you have closed the throttle, the TPS thinks you still have the throttle open a little and you get too much fuel, causing a stall and the otherproblems described. Take the TPS off, and with a small screwdriver rotate the position sensor fully open, thn release it. If it doesn't snap back to the closed position quickly, you need to replace the primary TPS. (END) Just something I read last night. I might have to try this with my own TPS. Depends on how bored I get one day.

This might sound a bit stupid but honestly I do not know so i have to ask this.... Are the bikes you have build in US ...by US Yamaha ?? or they import from Japan and they just sell them....???? I am asking this cause looks like only US bikes are doing this problem not the europe ones !!!!! It might be that something is different from the other bikes (well not sure about this) ... Europe import direct from Japan.... and does not assemble... Think of it might help.... I also know that some countries got sort of restrictions on the bikes or modified specs... Could it be this issue ?? Was talking to a friend of mine who works as a mechanic and mentioned this problem on the Citroen Xianta .... looks like have the same problem but they found that when uploading a fresh program to the control Chip will come back to normal.... :confused: :confused: :confused:

mine is "european model"

Not sure if people are still battling with this, but I just called Champion Yamaha in Newport Beach and they said that they know what the problem is. I guess they figured out that it is indeed a throttle body sensor (not the TPS). I also called Yamaha and they still don't have anything in their computer (what a dissapointment for a fairly widespread problem). Anyway, call Champion if you have the stalling problem. Hopefully they will fix mine. Originally posted by Speeder2 Dec.19th---STILL NO CONFIRMED FIX for this problem UPDATE DEC.4,2004 I THINK WE MAY HAVE THE FIX---VERY LOW TECH FIX... i SPOKE TO PASCAL PICOTTE AND HIS HEAD MECHANIC TODAY AND HE SAID WE NEED TO ADD MORE COOLANT. THE COOLANT LEVEL CAN DROP BY 200-300CC AND IT WILL EFFECT THE THERMAL WAX PLUNGER CAUSING THE ECU TO THINK SOMETHIGN IS WRONG AND SHUT OFF THE BIKE---NO ERROR CODES CUZ NOT ELECTRICAL. SO ADD MORE COOLANT AND IT SHOULD FIX YOUR ISSUE. HE SAID HE HAS SEEN IT BEFORE....WE CAN TEST IT BY LIFTING UP THE GAS TANK AND YOU WILL SEE IF THE PLUNGERS ARE MOVING PROPERLY AS THE COOLANT CIRCULATES AND HEATS UP THE WAX....CAN SOMEONE TRY IT AND LET US KNOW. UPDATE---OCT1-2004 Now I think I know what the fix is, at least for my problem which seems to be the same as alot of you. I have been testing my bike for close to 1000km. It has a new ECU and matching throttle body. THe problem lies with something on the throttle body since it has alot of sensors and connections and not the ECU since this is now the 3rd ECU. Any mechanics here that can explain whats on the throttle body? The weather has cooled down here but it was fairly warm today (22c-but cool). I ran it in traffic for1.5 hours today plus another hour at night. It is running very well now. The fan was running at 105c hit 108c and still ran fine in traffic moving less than 30kmh. BUT, what if we get the same crappy part that will act up in another 6000km....hmm TO YAMAHA- contact me-I have DETAILS for this problem. Weather, conditions, humidity, times, fuel, I even have oil that I saved. I think alot of you might run into this soon: 1. 2004 R1 with 12500km 2. ran fine until 6000km 3. ECU replaced 4. Exup adjusted 5. richened up-no longer lean 6. happening for over 6 weeks now 7. bike in shop for 6 days now---will go back for a day 7 this week. PROBLEM When I come to a stop the bike would just shut off. Sounds like a wind down sound. Like an electrical motor winding down to off. The dash lights stay on. I have to turn it off with the key and restart it. This used to happen in the hot days but now it happens at night and within 100 yards after i come out of my driveway in the mornings now. It HAS gotten worse for me. This is happening more often (daily now) it happens when it is hot. It happens when it is cool. It happens riding for less than 10 min or after 1 hour. I am in Canada. If you had this happen to you and it was fixed (wherever you are from), please pm me with name of shop and location so I can get Yamaha Canada to call them. Also let me know exactly what they did to fix your problem. Dam---they have me doing all their trial and tests for them. Did I tell you I almost got rear ended a few times at stop lights. PLEASE PROVIDE THE FIX IF THIS HAPPENED TO YOU. ONLY POST IF THIS IS HAPPENING TO YOU AND PLEASE UPDATE YOUR 1 POST AS YOU HAVE PROBLEMS AND FIXES. THE GOAL IS TO KEEP A RUNNING JOURNAL OF O UR PROBLEMS AND TRACK IT EASIER FOR ANY FUTURE ISSUES. Thanks everyone,TO YAMAHA- contact me-I have DETAILS for this problem. TO YAMAHA- contact me-I have DETAILS for this problem.

Ok, called Yamaha. Yamaha Motor Corporation, USA 6555 Katella Avenue Cypress, CA 90630 Sales, marketing and distribution of Motorcycles, ATVs, Snowmobiles, Generators and Race Kart Engines. Customer Relations (800) 962-7926 They told me they have no records of anyone having this problem. No recalls but a tech bulliten of a loose ENGINE MOUNT BOLT. Also, when bring up that there is over 600 posts related to this issue, I was advised that everyone will type any kind of problem and that none of them are correct or related. Also, that we are not TECHNICIANS or YAMAHA CERTIFIED MECHANICS and have no way to determine if our issues are related. I was advised that my WARRANTY is out of date. And when I paid $300+ to the dealer to 100% inspect my bike and trouble shoot this problem that the dealer never called the tech hotline to ask for possible issues related to mine. They said that when the DEALER calls, that its gets noted that your bike has that problem...but ofcourse there were no comments on my bike. They also said that there is no way a EUROPEAN MODEL would have the same problem as a USA MODEL because they are different. I asked here if they parts are interchangable and used on both bikes and she said "I GUESS." I then asked her if it was possible if a EUROPEAN MODEL and a USA MODEL to have the same part that is causeing this problem and she said it was possible but highly unlikely. Then went on about the driving conditions, climate, weather, etc. I told her about my crash and notified if there were anymore crashes because of this issue, there will be some legal action taken. She advised me to take it to the dealer again and have them check it out. Pay another $300+ I guess...when does it end? Phone number called above. COMFORMATION # CAS00138152 NAME of EMPLOYEE Liana wouldn't give out last name, said she the only Liana there and said they have no employee numbers TIME 2:45 PM EST DATE 7-5-2005 My information: YZF-R1SS 2004 Silver VIN # JYARN13EX4A001190 William P. Rampe, Jr 13417 Herbert Warren, MI 48089 (734) 673-9042

When I asked to talk to a TECH...she said customer can't talk to TECHS...only DEALERS. If they don't get this shit fixed, maybe we sould all do CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. Any thoughts? I had $950.00 in damages and personal injuries from this happening in a turn last year. Bill

Originally posted by Bill2Drunk If they don't get this shit fixed, maybe we sould all do CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. Any thoughts? Bill [/B] My thoughts? The ONLY parties to benefit from a class action are the lawyers.... :fact

Hi guys, Ran into this thread as I have experienced the same probelm last week. Mine is an European 2004 R1, which has now run approx. 16.000 km. The problem started on juli 25th when coming back from the Dutch TT races (MotoGP) at Assen. When cruisng trough heavy traffic the engine started running badly and stalled when I pulled the clutch. The bike had done approx. 12k kms at that time. I could restart but the problem stayed. I thought I hadf a problem with vacuum in my tank (blocked vent tube) so I opened the tank and the problem dissappeared for the next 50 km's. On monday 27 I set of for a trip to Spain and just left home the engine started again running badly. So I went directly to my dealer. He had not heard of this problem and thought I might have bad fuel (or water in my tank??) He poord in some additive to cure this and guess what, the engine ran smoothly without any problem for 2500 kms. But...last sunday the prblem came back, engine running badly, especially in 2n and 3rd and low idle revs and cutting out. Shit, I was in Spain and had to travel 1600 km back to Holland!!. So I set of yesterday and along 100 km the engine running was a mess and it cut out a dozen times. I didnot know what to do, so thought: lets try the additive again. Miracle oh miracle: it didnot cut out a single time in 1500 km's thoug running in nd and 3rd is not smooth an makes a lurking sound in the airbox (the engine is 100% standard). I don''t get it. Wil visit my dealer this week and let you know what comes out. rgds Nick from The Netherlands

Originally posted by carsten I just called Champion Yamaha in Newport Beach and they said that they know what the problem is. I guess they figured out that it is indeed a throttle body sensor (not the TPS). The part number that Champion is talking about is 5FL8588502-00, the revised TPS part number I gave out several pages ago. This part is the TPS.

Was the problem solved? You say its TBS in your quote, but then say TPS in your reply...I'm confussed. What did that part cost if you know? Was it covered under warranty? My warranty is up now and still no fix.

Ron Ayers sells the new TPS ( 5FL-85885-02-00 ). Might be on backorder? But check it out. They even say that it superseded to 5FL-85885-02-00. And they cost $99.00

Correction to my mistake above. 5FL-85885-01-00 is superseded to 5FL-85885-02-00

Is that official fix? I called 949-642-4343 Champion Honda-Yamaha...etc and spoke with Josh, he thinks TPS...but he don't think YAMAHA would do a recall on it since they don't make that many bikes.

Originally posted by aaask8tr Correction to my mistake above. 5FL-85885-01-00 is superseded to 5FL-85885-02-00 Thats wierd...normally the -01-00 is newer than the 02-00 number. Maybe the -02-00 was junk and they went back to old model.

Originally posted by Bill2Drunk Is that official fix? I called 949-642-4343 Champion Honda-Yamaha...etc and spoke with Josh, he thinks TPS...but he don't think YAMAHA would do a recall on it since they don't make that many bikes. talk to Bill and Champion (he knows the whole story as they battled with a bike some time ago that had this problem until they figured it out). Yamaha is acknowledging the problem, but they will only put a bulletin if it affects more than 3 percent of the bikes. This problem is affecting about .5 percent of the bikes...so no bulletin. Yamaha is being good about warrantying these problems, since they realize that it is a serious problem (even if you are over the one year period).

I hope your right about the warranty issue...I'll have to check with a new dealer up here in Detroit to see if I can get it fixed for free.

Originally posted by Bill2Drunk Was the problem solved? You say its TBS in your quote, but then say TPS in your reply...I'm confussed. I'm not sure what you just said LOL. I quoted you when you said Champion Yamaha told you the problem part was a "Throttle Body Sensor (not TPS)". I am saying that the part number that Champion is talking about IS the TPS, you said that they said it was not the TPS. Trying to explain this is more complicated than just reading the quotes and replies in sequence :finger LOL If you go back and read prior posts, I mentioned that I replaced both the primary and the secondary TPS, using the 3rd version TPS part number. I gave a source for it, and an approx cost, I did not remember the cost. I also mentioned that I won't have an opportunity to test the "fix" until Aug 2nd, and that in the meantime, another problem was uncovered, this one being the EXUP servomotor. I am awaiting a new one from Japan, it hasn't arrived yet. Regarding the two TPS units I replaced, no they were not under warranty, I purchased them myself. I also foot the bill for my orthopedic injuries sustained in May 2004 when my bike shut off in a turn, not to mention the repair of the bike, which was totalled. Add in several months of physical impairment while the injuries were healing, lost work productivity (I am self-employed. No worky, no money, but plenty bills, yeah!) :crash

Originally posted by Eyespy I'm not sure what you just said LOL. I quoted you when you said Champion Yamaha told you the problem part was a "Throttle Body Sensor (not TPS)". I am saying that the part number that Champion is talking about IS the TPS, you said that they said it was not the TPS. Trying to explain this is more complicated than just reading the quotes and replies in sequence :finger LOL If you go back and read prior posts, I mentioned that I replaced both the primary and the secondary TPS, using the 3rd version TPS part number. I gave a source for it, and an approx cost, I did not remember the cost. I also mentioned that I won't have an opportunity to test the "fix" until Aug 2nd, and that in the meantime, another problem was uncovered, this one being the EXUP servomotor. I am awaiting a new one from Japan, it hasn't arrived yet. Regarding the two TPS units I replaced, no they were not under warranty, I purchased them myself. I also foot the bill for my orthopedic injuries sustained in May 2004 when my bike shut off in a turn, not to mention the repair of the bike, which was totalled. Add in several months of physical impairment while the injuries were healing, lost work productivity (I am self-employed. No worky, no money, but plenty bills, yeah!) :crash what the guy at Champion is telling me is that you have two throttle sensors (one that operated by the user and one that is operated by the computer). The stalling problem is caused by the one that is operated by the computer (it does not shut the butterfly valve on time - or something like that). They are fixing it under warranty although my bike is over a year old. Right now they are trying to get the part from out of the country...will post again after they exchange the part...

I think hes right about it being the TPS controlled by the computer. That would explain the running like crap under 5,000 or 6,000 rpm's. Anything over that and my bike runs fine. Then the cycling of the key. That will open the controlled butterfly valves to full open and then full close. Running he TPS as well through the same motion, ending in full close. Something a bad TPS cant do itself. My bike is out of warranty. So i'll have to dish out the $100 to try and fix it myself. Thats a lot better than what Yamaha charges for a 3 year Y.E.S. warranty.

Originally posted by Bill2Drunk Thats wierd...normally the -01-00 is newer than the 02-00 number. Maybe the -02-00 was junk and they went back to old model. Nope, 01-00 is not generally newer than 02-00. If that were true, what number would be newer than 01-00, think about it..... The 00-00 is the original number, than revised to 01-00, and now the 3rd version, 02-00. And so on.

Well if you take off the TPS you will need to have a T25 Torx tip with the hole in the middle to get out the adjustment screws that hold it into place. I just took my TPS off and didnt notice anything wrong with it. It did spring back like it should. Maybe it faults when it gets too hot? I don't know. But, I would like to know what is causing the fault.

Originally posted by aaask8tr Well if you take off the TPS you will need to have a T25 Torx tip with the hole in the middle to get out the adjustment screws that hold it into place. I just took my TPS off and didnt notice anything wrong with it. It did spring back like it should. Maybe it faults when it gets too hot? I don't know. But, I would like to know what is causing the fault. the first time mine did it was when the bike was hot and sitting in traffic...the second time was after I had ridden it, but then it sat for three hours and cooled down (temp was only about 140 F). So it seems that although heat may initially trigger disfunction, thereafter it happens regardless of operating temp.

Well, it looks like I am in the same boat with you guys. My 04 has about 10k on it now. A couple of days ago will putting around town in traffic, and then sitting on a hill in traffic, the bike begins to try an idle at about 450rpm. Of course it dies soon after attempting this. I restart if several times, but I was forced to keep the revs up to keep it running. Trying to make it home was eventful as well. At less that 5000 rpm, it would lurch and the throttle responce was way off. Also the power of the bike was like that of a 600cc bike from years past. I pulled over and checked for any loose connections because about 2k miles before I had put new plugs, removed the AIS system, intalled velocity stacks, power commander, gutted exhaust )w/yoshi baffles), installed graves block off plates, installed gear indicator, and fender eliminator. Not all of this was 2k miles ago, but over the course of a year or so. At first I wondered if I just put some 89 octane in the tank on accident. When I restarted the bike about 5 min later, it seemed fine. After going down the road, it wasn't :rant After skimming over the post, many post I should say, should I replace the TPS that is controlled by the computer or just take it to the shop? I am sure that my warranty is up by at least 6 months. :( After paying over $10,000 for this beautiful maching.....I want to ride it :riding

Originally posted by Dreyfusduke Well, it looks like I am in the same boat with you guys. My 04 has about 10k on it now. A couple of days ago will putting around town in traffic, and then sitting on a hill in traffic, the bike begins to try an idle at about 450rpm. Of course it dies soon after attempting this. I restart if several times, but I was forced to keep the revs up to keep it running. Trying to make it home was eventful as well. At less that 5000 rpm, it would lurch and the throttle responce was way off. Also the power of the bike was like that of a 600cc bike from years past. I pulled over and checked for any loose connections because about 2k miles before I had put new plugs, removed the AIS system, intalled velocity stacks, power commander, gutted exhaust )w/yoshi baffles), installed graves block off plates, installed gear indicator, and fender eliminator. Not all of this was 2k miles ago, but over the course of a year or so. At first I wondered if I just put some 89 octane in the tank on accident. When I restarted the bike about 5 min later, it seemed fine. After going down the road, it wasn't :rant After skimming over the post, many post I should say, should I replace the TPS that is controlled by the computer or just take it to the shop? I am sure that my warranty is up by at least 6 months. :( After paying over $10,000 for this beautiful maching.....I want to ride it :riding 6 months out of warranty is not too bad. I would go to the dealer where you bought the bike, cause a little hell if they give you a hard time and at least tell the guy to attempt to pre-date the warranty claim (after all, Yamaha knows that this is their problem and it should not be occuring after a year and half).

Originally posted by aaask8tr I think hes right about it being the TPS controlled by the computer. That would explain the running like crap under 5,000 or 6,000 rpm's. Anything over that and my bike runs fine. Then the cycling of the key. That will open the controlled butterfly valves to full open and then full close. Running he TPS as well through the same motion, ending in full close. Something a bad TPS cant do itself. My bike is out of warranty. So i'll have to dish out the $100 to try and fix it myself. Thats a lot better than what Yamaha charges for a 3 year Y.E.S. warranty. Yeah, but how much has it cost you to ride a bike that isn't doing what it's supposed to? Just bustin' ya balls!!! I am still amazed that this is still going on and all this guesswork. Amazing. :dunno

so..after 5000km the bike start to die again... reopened tank,kill my hands to get out the lower TPS again,clean and adjust him again and the bike run ok again..FOR 5000km again??? so we have an certitude that the latest TPS 00-02 is the answer?? or not?:dunno :dunno

This is for certain. I replaced my throttle bodies around 10000 miles. As soon as the new TBs were installed, my bike ran way better and the stalling stopped. I now have 24,000 miles and I haven't had a single issue since the TB replacement. Like I said, I am amazed that all of you are still working on the TPS fix as the cure all. I found the fix in the TBs back in October but I guess that's not the popular answer. Good luck to all.

Originally posted by RUFFSTUFF This is for certain. I replaced my throttle bodies around 10000 miles. As soon as the new TBs were installed, my bike ran way better and the stalling stopped. I now have 24,000 miles and I haven't had a single issue since the TB replacement. Like I said, I am amazed that all of you are still working on the TPS fix as the cure all. I found the fix in the TBs back in October but I guess that's not the popular answer. Good luck to all. But what is wrong with the throttle bodies? Did they change anything on the new ones? Whatever it is, I'm sure it's the same thing on all the bad bikes, so just putting the same exact throttle body back in isn't really a permanent fix if it's just going to do the same thing eventually. There is a reason they are updating the TPS. They aren't going to make revised parts for the hell of it.

Who cares what is wrong with the TBs? Chuck 'em, get new ones and ride! While you all go back and forth with part numbers, this version that version, yada yada, my bike was fixed back in October like I said. Too much time and effort is being wasted, but to each his own.

Does anyone have a picture of this TPS sensor that is controlled by the computer? I seen in a earlier responce that I need a special tool in order to remove it. Pictures are worth a thousand words. As far as replacing the entire throttle body assembley........that just seems nuts to me. :confused: If the problem is coming from just one sensor, one that has an updated part to replace it, then that is the way I am going to go. Of course I am going to go to my local shop and raise all kinds of hell to get this problem resolved ASAP! :fact Can someone please post the part #s again that I may check and make sure the dealer puts on the updated part? Thanks a bunch forum members.

Originally posted by Dreyfusduke Does anyone have a picture of this TPS sensor that is controlled by the computer? I seen in a earlier responce that I need a special tool in order to remove it. Pictures are worth a thousand words. As far as replacing the entire throttle body assembley........that just seems nuts to me. :confused: If the problem is coming from just one sensor, one that has an updated part to replace it, then that is the way I am going to go. Of course I am going to go to my local shop and raise all kinds of hell to get this problem resolved ASAP! :fact Can someone please post the part #s again that I may check and make sure the dealer puts on the updated part? Thanks a bunch forum members. Just got back from the dealer and they replaced the sensor only to have me drive off and have the bike stall 30 feet later. Now it does not even hesitate before stalling...straight to zero. So they got on the phone with Yamaha who told them to disconnet, because that should let the bike run a little rough, but at least not die anymore...no such luck either...if you are slightest bit rough on the throttle with the sensor disconnected the bike stalls AGAIN. So now my bike is still there and I have no R1 for the GP race. Insead of putting $1mm into the track, they should have put more money into testing.

I had to have my throttle bodies replaced after the TPS sensors were replaced. The throttle body replacement is the only thing that finally solved my problem. My problem was intermittent at around 5,000 miles and then it became more frequent. I went to Daytona for bike week and my bike would not run for 5 miles straight without idling down and shutting off. Needless to say, I was pissed. When I got back to Maryland, I called around and found a dealer who knew about the problem. Heyser Cycle in Laurel, Maryland. They had to follow a procedure mandated by Yamaha by changing TPS sensors, first. The problem persisited and they finally authorized the throttle body replacement. Ever since they changed my throttle bodies, my bike has run like a dream. Had tb's changed at 10,900 miles and now I have 13,000 plus miles without a problem. I have a 2004 silver that I picked up new in April of 2004. Yamaha does know about this problem but they are trying to find the cheapest solution. I also think that some have said that changing the TPS sensor has fixed thier problem. Unfortunately, this makes it harder for people with a TB problem get a fix without hassles. Good luck, people. Peace

Originally posted by RUFFSTUFF Who cares what is wrong with the TBs? Chuck 'em, get new ones and ride! While you all go back and forth with part numbers, this version that version, yada yada, my bike was fixed back in October like I said. Too much time and effort is being wasted, but to each his own. Ya, and for the bikes out of warrenty, how much do the new throttle bodies cost in comparison to the replacement TPS s? Your bluster is not helping anybody.

Also, did they put a different "stlye" of throttle body on the bike, or did they just put a "new" one on? I really don't see what can go wrong with the throttle body itself. It is a very simple design that most of the japanese bike manufatures base thier designs on. If you think about it........its just a tube with an injector mounted in it, with a butterfly valve above. Plus, the problem does seem to be more electrical than anything (in my case), because I can shut the bike off and turn it back on and the problem is gone. I did have a friend of mine that seemed to have this same problem, but we found that he had pinched one of the lines coming from his gas tank during a front sprocket replacement. Why is these particular sensors going bad on Yamaha's? Does any other fuel-injected motorcycle have this same sensor? Is it the manufacturer of this sensor, or is its location the actual problem. I didn't see that it was in a spot to get moisture of any kind, or extreme heat either. I am at a loss. :confused:

It's been a while since i've read this post and I have to admit it's really getting pretty amusing.........All kinds of replies and advice have been given out but everyone just throws each other another curve ball to add more gasoline to the fire............and confuse things even more... There have been several testimonies of people getting their bikes fixed and the fact of the matter is the only ones that got it fixed had to go through Yamaha..........Regardless of what they replaced the bottom line is IT'S FIXED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You could continue to go back and forth forever on this site or spend a little less energy typing and go after Yamaha until they fix your bike. You may have to bitch and harass them a little but that is your right since you are a unhappy customer with a defective product that is of no fault of yours. If the dealer won't help take your complaint to higher management directly with yamaha and don't quit until they fix it..... ;) I hope to see the day that everyone has their bikes fixed but from the looks of it, as long as this site exist that will never happen. peace out

TPS ANALYSIS: Two TPS devices were tested with virtually identical results, therefore the following data and analysis applies equally to both. Both sensors are from the same R1 (thanks eyespy!). One sensor is from the main throttle position and the other is from the positional feedback in the sub-throttle control loop. FOR BOTH SENSORS: Total resistive value within specification. Variable resistance range within specification. Variable element contact resistance typical for a sensor with a resistive element of conductive plastic construction; commonly used in throttle position sensor design. Mechanical rotational limit appears to be approximately 110 degrees. TPS was connected to a 5-volt DC supply (same voltage value as is used in the R1). A 100K-ohm ‘pull-up’ resister was connected between the 5-volt supply and the variable resistance (position signal) pin on the TPS. The pull-up resistor helps to identify any ‘bad spots’ within the operational rotational angle of the sensor. The variable resistance pin on the TPS was monitored with an oscilloscope. The sensor was rotated repeatedly through its operational range at both relatively constant angular velocity and direction, in addition to random velocity and direction. I concentrated on lower relative rotational velocities. It has been my experience that resistive discontinuities are more apt to show themselves at lower rotational speeds. After approximately 10-minutes of testing each, at no time did either sensor exhibit any irregular or discontinuous signal. Sensors were cooled to 0-degreees F and heated to 180-degrees F. No indication of mechanical bind or friction associated with the rotational input at either temperature extreme or at room temperature. As far as I can tell, these two sensors are 100% operational. THERMO WAX PLUNGER UPDATE: I am still of the opinion that the thermo wax plunger is not the problem source, but for different reasons than previously thought. In my ignorance, when eyespy asked me if I thought the thermo wax plunger had anything to do with this problem, I said I thought it was probably one of the least likely candidates. The reason I said this is because I thought he was referring to the radiator thermostat! Radiator thermostats are also a thermo wax based device. As Red on That 70’s Show would say,……..DUMB-ASS!! In my recent research into this stalling problem I became aware that the thermo wax plunger is responsible for raising the idle speed during engine warm up. Despite the obvious connection to idle speed control, I believe what discounts it is the fact that an ignition key power cycle temporarily cures the stalling problem. The thermo wax plunger is strictly a mechanical device and would be unaffected by a power cycle. MULTIPLE TPS PART NUMBERS: There are many reasons as to why a manufacturer will change part numbers. Certainly, one of those reasons would be to differentiate a revised part replacing one with a design flaw. Most commonly though, part numbers are changed if they deviate from the rule of fit, form, function. What this means is a part number will be changed if modifications to that part affect its fit (its geometry has changed some how), its form (different material of construction, different internal geometry/construction, surface finish, etc.), or its function (in some way the part reacts differently in application). Granted, the change in TPS part number could be due to previous revision design flaw, but not necessarily/exclusively. OPINION: Despite the lack of finding fault with the two TPS devices tested, I cannot totally discount the TPS as being, if not a main contributor, then an ancillary one to the stalling problem. I cannot base any conclusions upon the testing of only two samples. I need more TPS devices to test so as to decisively include or exclude them as a source/contributor to the stalling problem. SEND ME MORE TPS !! My gut feeling is that the TPS is not the stalling problem source. From all the information available to me it appears that the problem source (if it is a single and not multiple source problem) is an electrically influenced mechanical device associated with the fuel injection system. The reasons I believe this is because the problem has a somewhat predictable onset, based upon mileage, rather than time. This suggests mechanical wear/fatigue. The fact that a power cycle temporarily ‘fixes’ the problem suggests an electrical influence. The single-source devices that come to mind that fulfill these criteria are: 1. TPS(s) 2. FUEL INJECTOR(s) 3. SUB-THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM Of those that report throttle body replacement has ‘solved’ the problem, do you know, or can you find out what throttle body assembly components were replaced and which were not. The important components are: 1. Throttle body housing 2. Injectors 3. Thermo wax plunger 4. Main throttle TPS 5. Sub-throttle servomotor 6. Sub-throttle TPS I have heard of owners having their sub-throttle assembly removed and fuel then re-mapped. Has anybody here done that, and if so, do you have any stalling symptoms as described by those contributing to this thread? EYESPY: May I hang onto your TPS devices for a while yet? I may have some other non-destructive tests in the near future that I will want to run. Thanks. TO THOSE THAT FEEL THIS ANALYSIS IS A WASTE OF TIME: Identification of which component, specifically, is the stalling problem source (if it is a single component) is not a waste of time by any definition. The systematic elimination of possible contributors to the problem allows the customer to target the problem source. This saves 'out-of-warranty' customers hard-earned cash by replacing only what needs replacement. It also saves Yamaha money in needless component replacement. Bottom line - money spent by Yamaha on warranty claims this year, ends up in the price of next years models! Sam

Originally posted by Sam Farris TPS ANALYSIS: Two TPS devices were tested with virtually identical results, therefore the following data and analysis applies equally to both. Both sensors are from the same R1 (thanks eyespy!). One sensor is from the main throttle position and the other is from the positional feedback in the sub-throttle control loop. FOR BOTH SENSORS: Total resistive value within specification. Variable resistance range within specification. Variable element contact resistance typical for a sensor with a resistive element of conductive plastic construction; commonly used in throttle position sensor design. Mechanical rotational limit appears to be approximately 110 degrees. TPS was connected to a 5-volt DC supply (same voltage value as is used in the R1). A 100K-ohm ‘pull-up’ resister was connected between the 5-volt supply and the variable resistance (position signal) pin on the TPS. The pull-up resistor helps to identify any ‘bad spots’ within the operational rotational angle of the sensor. The variable resistance pin on the TPS was monitored with an oscilloscope. The sensor was rotated repeatedly through its operational range at both relatively constant angular velocity and direction, in addition to random velocity and direction. I concentrated on lower relative rotational velocities. It has been my experience that resistive discontinuities are more apt to show themselves at lower rotational speeds. After approximately 10-minutes of testing each, at no time did either sensor exhibit any irregular or discontinuous signal. Sensors were cooled to 0-degreees F and heated to 180-degrees F. No indication of mechanical bind or friction associated with the rotational input at either temperature extreme or at room temperature. As far as I can tell, these two sensors are 100% operational. THERMO WAX PLUNGER UPDATE: I am still of the opinion that the thermo wax plunger is not the problem source, but for different reasons than previously thought. In my ignorance, when eyespy asked me if I thought the thermo wax plunger had anything to do with this problem, I said I thought it was probably one of the least likely candidates. The reason I said this is because I thought he was referring to the radiator thermostat! Radiator thermostats are also a thermo wax based device. As Red on That 70’s Show would say,……..DUMB-ASS!! In my recent research into this stalling problem I became aware that the thermo wax plunger is responsible for raising the idle speed during engine warm up. Despite the obvious connection to idle speed control, I believe what discounts it is the fact that an ignition key power cycle temporarily cures the stalling problem. The thermo wax plunger is strictly a mechanical device and would be unaffected by a power cycle. MULTIPLE TPS PART NUMBERS: There are many reasons as to why a manufacturer will change part numbers. Certainly, one of those reasons would be to differentiate a revised part replacing one with a design flaw. Most commonly though, part numbers are changed if they deviate from the rule of fit, form, function. What this means is a part number will be changed if modifications to that part affect its fit (its geometry has changed some how), its form (different material of construction, different internal geometry/construction, surface finish, etc.), or its function (in some way the part reacts differently in application). Granted, the change in TPS part number could be due to previous revision design flaw, but not necessarily/exclusively. OPINION: Despite the lack of finding fault with the two TPS devices tested, I cannot totally discount the TPS as being, if not a main contributor, then an ancillary one to the stalling problem. I cannot base any conclusions upon the testing of only two samples. I need more TPS devices to test so as to decisively include or exclude them as a source/contributor to the stalling problem. SEND ME MORE TPS !! My gut feeling is that the TPS is not the stalling problem source. From all the information available to me it appears that the problem source (if it is a single and not multiple source problem) is an electrically influenced mechanical device associated with the fuel injection system. The reasons I believe this is because the problem has a somewhat predictable onset, based upon mileage, rather than time. This suggests mechanical wear/fatigue. The fact that a power cycle temporarily ‘fixes’ the problem suggests an electrical influence. The single-source devices that come to mind that fulfill these criteria are: 1. TPS(s) 2. FUEL INJECTOR(s) 3. SUB-THROTTLE CONTROL SYSTEM Of those that report throttle body replacement has ‘solved’ the problem, do you know, or can you find out what throttle body assembly components were replaced and which were not. The important components are: 1. Throttle body housing 2. Injectors 3. Thermo wax plunger 4. Main throttle TPS 5. Sub-throttle servomotor 6. Sub-throttle TPS I have heard of owners having their sub-throttle assembly removed and fuel then re-mapped. Has anybody here done that, and if so, do you have any stalling symptoms as described by those contributing to this thread? EYESPY: May I hang onto your TPS devices for a while yet? I may have some other non-destructive tests in the near future that I will want to run. Thanks. TO THOSE THAT FEEL THIS ANALYSIS IS A WASTE OF TIME: Identification of which component, specifically, is the stalling problem source (if it is a single component) is not a waste of time by any definition. The systematic elimination of possible contributors to the problem allows the customer to target the problem source. This saves 'out-of-warranty' customers hard-earned cash by replacing only what needs replacement. It also saves Yamaha money in needless component replacement. Bottom line - money spent by Yamaha on warranty claims this year, ends up in the price of next years models! Sam Hey Sam. Thanks for the detailed, if not somewhat disappointing update. It suggests that, in my case at least, the TPS was not the culprit. The solution remains elusive. Regarding hanging on to the sensors for possible addition non-destructive testing, yes, you may do so. I don't have an immediate need for the parts to be returned. Thanks again, hope the deal with this is elucidated soon.

Originally posted by EX929 Ya, and for the bikes out of warrenty, how much do the new throttle bodies cost in comparison to the replacement TPS s? Your bluster is not helping anybody. Hey jackass...Is this the point where I'm supposed to feel sorry for you if your warranty has expired? You can sit on your ass and wait for someone to come along and solve all your problems... Like I've said several times before, I fixed this problem back in October i.e. 9 months ago. I'm pretty sure that when you or whoever purchased the bike you were given the opportunity to get the extended warranty. It's a choice to make, and the consequences are your own. Unless Yamaha makes this a recall item, it will remain a warranty fix. As far as helping people... I've done all I can to do just that. I've said what has worked and what hasn't worked. And guess what? When I replaced my throttle bodies and my bike was fixed, I did not continue to search for another solution. I said a long time ago that replacing the TPS did not fix the problem, and then after time, another version came out that was supposed to be the fix... and what did it fix? Nothing. Instead of tasking someone else to solve your woes, why don't you see what you can do to offer assistance? :beer

RUFFSTUFF and a couple others says it's the Throttle Bodies. So lets break 'em down and focus on them. What components make up the T.B's? And what do those componets do? I'm done waisting time on the TPS.

I got my main TPS replaced and I understand they reprogrammed the sensitivity of this unit as well. I have only gotten only a little over 200 miles on the bike and in that time I haven't had my bike die or do the large power loses/surges like it used to. That said, I have had the occasional mid-sized power hiccup, and it still feels 'rough' when I stay at a steady 4k or 5k RPM or so while in 2nd/3rd. It just doesn't feel the same as when I first bought the bike. It almost feels like a kinked chain or something, but I have checked the bike for that. As Yamaha had the dealer reprogram TPS settings different than what it originally came with, I wonder if the problem is only being masked... I'll continue to monitor the bike, as I said I haven't been able to put many miles on it. I'll be letting the dealer know that the bike still isn't 100% next week and hopefully we can get some more parts replaced to get this thing taken care of.

Well, I got the secondary TPS replaced and on the way home fromt the dealer guess what? Started doing it again so I guess it is off to my now local Tennessee Yamaha Dealer for new Throttle Bodies. I just wish they would have done this in the first place instead of wasting there time with the stupid TPS. Does anyone know if the throttle bodies they r replacing the old ones with are new versions or not. Thank God for the $500 extended warrenty that is about the only thing that is keeping me sane through this big ordeal.

Originally posted by r6heaventnt it still feels 'rough' when I stay at a steady 4k or 5k RPM or so while in 2nd/3rd. It just doesn't feel the same as when I first bought the bike. :dunno Have you installed frame sliders on your bike? Were the bolts torqued to spec? When I first installed my frame sliders I just reefed the bolts on good and tight. The bike developed a bothersome vibration that appeared between 4500 and 5000 RPM under normal acceleration. Turns out those engine mount bolts are spec'ed at 33 ft/lbs. They were probably twice that. Re-torqued to spec the vibration is gone.

Mine were replaced with California TB's. The extra emissions plumbing that wasn't used we just left disconnected and capped off.

OF THOSE THAT ARE HAVING THIS STALL PROBLEM: HAS ANYONE PERFORMED THE SUB-THROTTLE ADJUSTMENT PROCEDURE? The procedure for checking and adjusting the sub-throttle TPS and butterfly position is covered on pages 387~389 in the USA 2004 YZF-R1 service manual. For those of you having the stall problem, I would like a volunteer to step forward and perform this procedure on their bike. I would suggest potential volunteers to review the procedure and determine if this is something you will feel comfortable doing. What I would like is to have the volunteer record all initial values for both the TPS (resistive and voltage values as called out in the service manual adjustment procedure) and the sub-throttle butterfly fully-open and fully-closed dimensional data as called out in the procedure. The objective here is to acquire ‘before’ and ‘after’ adjustment data. In addition to performing the adjustment procedure, I would also like the volunteer to perform what I will refer to as a ‘backlash’ test. This can be performed before, during, or after the adjustment procedure. BACKLASH TEST: The sub-throttle servomotor has an internal worm-gear that can be rotated via an external nut on the servomotor assembly. It is this same nut that is used in the service manual adjustment procedure to index the sub-throttle butterfly. Using as small of an adjustable wrench (a.k.a. ‘Crescent’ wrench) as is possible, place it upon the servomotor worm-gear nut and adjust the wrench jaws so they are tightly gripping the nut. The idea here is that we want zero ‘slop/play’ between wrench and nut. If you have a very small vise-grip pliers, that will work also, but if a vise-grip is used, be sure to use only enough clamping force to holds it in place without damaging the worm-gear nut surface geometry. Rotate the worm-gear nut such that the sub-throttle butterfly is approximately mid-range in its operational span. Using the wrench/pliers, rotate the worm-gear nut back and forth as far as is possible before encountering a resistance. This resistance will be a function of the high gear ratio of the worm-gear as it tries to rotate the servomotor assembly DC electric motor. To the best of your ability, measure the amount of worm-gear nut movement associated with this low resistance. The idea here is to acquire an angular degree of movement associated with this low resistance. One way to determine the angular value, if physically possible, is to use a clear plastic protractor to measure the wrench/pliers angular deflection. Another option is to use a machinist’s rule to measure the linear movement out at the end of the wrench/pliers. The approximate angular deflection, in radians, for small angles (which I suspect will be the case) is the ratio of the linear movement at the end of the wrench/pliers to the distance from the center of the nut to the wrench end. If we call wrench/pliers-end movement ‘M’, and the distance from nut center to wrench/pliers end ‘L’, the angle in radians ‘R’ is simply: R = M / L To convert the radian angular measure ‘R’ to degrees ‘D’ is: D = R * 57.3 To do it all with one formula, then: D = (M / L) * 57.3 Once the sub-throttle adjustment procedure and backlash test have been completed, it is then time to test-ride the bike for as many hours/days/weeks as you feel it takes to determine if the problem still exists. IF THE PROBLEM CONTINUES AFTER SUB-THROTTLE ADJUSTMENT: Go back in and adjust the sub-throttle servomotor worm-gear nut fully CCW (counter clock-wise) to bring the sub-throttle butterflies to their fully-open position. Disconnect the sub-throttle servomotor electrical connector (two-wire connection). This will then ‘lock’ the sub-throttle butterflies in the fully-open position. Test-ride the bike to determine if the bike is drivable enough to ride it this way for as many hours/days/weeks as is necessary to determine if the stalling problem still exists. NOTE: I don’t know if the bike will even be drivable in this condition, which is the reason for the test. Granted, if the bike is drivable, it will most likely not perform as well and may throw code 47 or 48 or both. The idea here is to ignore these and simply determine if the stalling problem, specifically, as gone away, or possibly even gotten worse. WHAT IS THE POINT OF ALL THIS?: It is to determine if the sub-throttle control system may be the source of the stalling problem. By doing the adjustment procedure, this will help to determine if mechanical creep/wear of the sub-throttle control system may be a factor in the stall problem. The backlash test gives us a measurable of the mechanical ‘slop’ in the sub-throttle control system of a bike that exhibits the problem. This data may be valuable in the near-future as a comparison variable with a bike that does not exhibit the stall problem. Locking the sub-throttle system fully-open essentially ‘removes’ it from the system and allows its virtual elimination as a variable. Often, troubleshooting is a process of elimination, rather than one of inclusion. I honestly don’t know if the sub-throttle has anything to do with the stalling problem, but performing these procedures and tests will go a long way in determining if we can eliminate it, or possibly identify it, as the source of the problem. Sam

Sam, when I did the replacement of both TPSs, I did the adjustment as described in the OM. BTW, both OEM TPSs were within electrical specs at the time of the swap, I then followed the SM instructions for the adjustment procedure when the new ones were put in.

Sam, nice work! I think, there was a post (way back) regarding the secondary servo question. If memory serves me this guy had totally removed the secondary butterflys and servo control unit and the bike continued to stall... It's a major undertaking to go back and review all the of the responses in this post. I've already done that too many times. Don't get me wrong I believe you're on the right track. Looking at all the components on the TB assembly how can it be anything but the TPS? What other components on the assemble can cause the malfunction....? KK

EYESPY: Thanks for the feedback. It is unclear to me as to how to classify this information; due to the fact your stall experiences have not been what I would call ‘classic’ symptoms. Just to be clear, I value your input and just because your symptoms do not seem to fall into a ‘classic’ grouping, that certainly does not invalidate your stall episode and subsequent physical injury and motorcycle damage. KORNKING: Thanks for the support. Any idea as to what page, approximately, the post you are referring to may be? Any help would be appreciated. THANKS TO EVERYONE ELSE!! I have read a lot of new information over the past few weeks that has been very helpful. Sam

I would just like to say thanks to everyone that is perservering with this and I'm sure your time and effort is appreciated by all.

Sam, I am not really 100% sure that my symptoms are all that different so as to be differentiated from the rest, so much as the fact that the bike is used as a track bike only, and so the cutting out /stalling of the motor occurs with more immediate and severe consequences. But I don't rule out that it is a different class of problem than the "classic" cases, either.

Originally posted by Eyespy Sam, I am not really 100% sure that my symptoms are all that different so as to be differentiated from the rest, so much as the fact that the bike is used as a track bike only, and so the cutting out /stalling of the motor occurs with more immediate and severe consequences. But I don't rule out that it is a different class of problem than the "classic" cases, either. Yes, I see your point. You are saying that it may be the application (racing) that gives the appearance of different symptoms. You may be right. Thanks for pointing that out eyespy!

Has anyone considered the injectors as the culprit? Maybe the pental in the injector gets worn and sticks open/leaking causing a rich condition. Maybe even a dirty filter allowing dirt to the injectors. I know it's simplistic, but sometimes simple things get overlooked. This is fuel injection. Just a thought.

Originally posted by RTSR1 Has anyone considered the injectors as the culprit? Maybe the pental in the injector gets worn and sticks open/leaking causing a rich condition. Maybe even a dirty filter allowing dirt to the injectors. I know it's simplistic, but sometimes simple things get overlooked. This is fuel injection. Just a thought. Good point. Here is a clip out of a post of mine from 6-14-05..... Of all these possibilities there is only item that is affected by low throttle position, dynamic temperature gradient, mechanical wear, and ECU power cycling. That item is the injectors. Granted, the problem could be a combination of factors, but my experience has been to look at a single simple cause first. Nine times out of ten it is the simplest explanation that defines the problem. The scenario I envision is one where the injector, by design (not intentionally), begins to prematurely wear, either due to inappropriate tolerances, geometry, surface finish, materials, or any combination of the above. This wear increases the friction within the injector. Due to this additional friction, a given injector duty cycle no longer equates to a given average orifice size. This then means that the amount of fuel for a given duty cycle is most likely reduced. This additional friction will have the greatest effect on small injector duty cycles, such as when the throttle is closed or near closed. In addition, when an engine is in the process of warming up, the engine components are exposed to dynamic temperature gradients. A dynamic temperature gradient can create distortions in the injector geometry. If the additional injector friction is a function of surface finish or geometric tolerance, the dynamic temperature gradient distortion could likely add to the friction component and worsen the effect. Once the injector temperature gradient stabilizes, the geometric distortion may become less of an aiding factor in the friction component. I have long felt that the cold engine hard-starting problem experienced by some 2002 to present R1 owners is a function of injector design. I have suspected that fuel atomization is marginal for cold weather starting. Poor atomization leads to poor vaporization of the highly volatile hydrocarbon components present in gasoline. It is these highly volatile components that ignite when engine internals are cool/cold, and thus ‘start’ a cold engine. Granted, additional friction due to wear would not likely cause the cold starting problem. This is because the injector duty cycle for cold start conditions is high, but it is a well-known problem that I feel is injector related; another nail in the injector’s coffin, if you will. I won’t discount the possibility the stalling and starting problems are related, but I won’t go so far as to say they are without actually looking into the problem. Sam

If you were to order a new set of T.B.'s($879.00) they would come with injectors($73.75 X 4 = $295). I set up my bike in the garage with the tank up and the airbox removed. Ran it until it started to gurgle around 5,000rpm's or so. Did not cut off. But sounded like it was missing around 4 to 5,000rpm's. I watched the t.b.'s and they seemed to be working fine. The servo for the butterflies seemed to work normally. Did this for atleast 30 min. Nothing out of the ordinary. I'm almost positive that the bike runs lean when its screws up. So I think its a lack of fuel and one the parts that helps deliver the fuel into the head is the culprit. TPS's are rulled out in my book. The servo assy. and the linkages are rulled out. It might be the injectors. Theres not much left.

Originally posted by Sam Farris Good point. Here is a clip out of a post of mine from 6-14-05..... Of all these possibilities there is only item that is affected by low throttle position, dynamic temperature gradient, mechanical wear, and ECU power cycling. That item is the injectors. Granted, the problem could be a combination of factors, but my experience has been to look at a single simple cause first. Nine times out of ten it is the simplest explanation that defines the problem. The scenario I envision is one where the injector, by design (not intentionally), begins to prematurely wear, either due to inappropriate tolerances, geometry, surface finish, materials, or any combination of the above. This wear increases the friction within the injector. Due to this additional friction, a given injector duty cycle no longer equates to a given average orifice size. This then means that the amount of fuel for a given duty cycle is most likely reduced. This additional friction will have the greatest effect on small injector duty cycles, such as when the throttle is closed or near closed. In addition, when an engine is in the process of warming up, the engine components are exposed to dynamic temperature gradients. A dynamic temperature gradient can create distortions in the injector geometry. If the additional injector friction is a function of surface finish or geometric tolerance, the dynamic temperature gradient distortion could likely add to the friction component and worsen the effect. Once the injector temperature gradient stabilizes, the geometric distortion may become less of an aiding factor in the friction component. I have long felt that the cold engine hard-starting problem experienced by some 2002 to present R1 owners is a function of injector design. I have suspected that fuel atomization is marginal for cold weather starting. Poor atomization leads to poor vaporization of the highly volatile hydrocarbon components present in gasoline. It is these highly volatile components that ignite when engine internals are cool/cold, and thus ‘start’ a cold engine. Granted, additional friction due to wear would not likely cause the cold starting problem. This is because the injector duty cycle for cold start conditions is high, but it is a well-known problem that I feel is injector related; another nail in the injector’s coffin, if you will. I won’t discount the possibility the stalling and starting problems are related, but I won’t go so far as to say they are without actually looking into the problem. Sam Yeah, the talk of new thottlebodies fixing the problem just doesn't make sense to me. Thottlebodies are just air valves to regulate air into the motor. But now that I know new ones come with new injectors, it seems to me to point to them a little clearer and maybe it's time to scrutinize them a little bit. Might even be a bad connector connection at the injectors. Worth looking at.

Maybe we're getting closer to the cause and the solution. Not 100% clear yet.

Droping the bike off at the dealer tomorrow. I will let everyone know what they come up with. Has anyone know anynone who works for one of the Yamaha race teams like Graves Motorsports for example? Maybe they have encountered this problem and know what it is. Just a thought.

Originally posted by Sam Farris Yes, I see your point. You are saying that it may be the application (racing) that gives the appearance of different symptoms. You may be right. Thanks for pointing that out eyespy! Right. Another thought: it might be worthwhile to electrical/fuel system similarities and dissimilarities between the 04 R1 and the 04 FZ6, as there are numerous instances and accounts of the fuel injected FZ6 experiencing virtually identical malfunctions/failures, including TPS replacement anectdotes, etc.

04 R1 injector: 5VY-13761-00-00 04 FZ6injector: 5VX-13761-00-00 04 R6 injector: 5SL-13761-00-00 03 R1 injector: 5PW-13761-00-00 :dunno could be the same

Does anyone with a 05 R1 have these problems yet or is it just 04 only. I thought the 04 and 05 was the same.

My bike was starving for gas under 3K rpm and dying till I changed my Power commander at 9k miles. Maybe, I'll have reoccuring problems after seeing this thread. Jeff

i barely started getting this problem, and doing some "tests" of my own, although basic tests. Just wanted to input that I have my secondary butterflies removed, and have been removed for about 12k miles b4 I had my first problem, so people thinking that it may be them, they are not the culprit on mine.

I have a 05 red one, it has 11000km on it & thank god no problem till now I think it's just the 04's & the first ones donno may be I'm wrong but if anyone has a 05 & facing this problem pls let us know :hellobye :fork

Originally posted by aaask8tr 04 R1 injector: 5VY-13761-00-00 04 FZ6injector: 5VX-13761-00-00 04 R6 injector: 5SL-13761-00-00 03 R1 injector: 5PW-13761-00-00 :dunno could be the same Did you check between the '04 and '05 R1's? Diff p/n's?

Originally posted by hdarazi I have a 05 red one, it has 11000km on it & thank god no problem till now I think it's just the 04's & the first ones donno may be I'm wrong but if anyone has a 05 & facing this problem pls let us know :hellobye :fork I have an 05 at it happened to me once. 4000 miles on the bike. Pulled up to a red light and engine idles like it was running on 2-3 cylinders. finally died and I had a bitch of a time trying to restart it. I did NOT have to turn the key off/on. I got pissed and revved the shit out of the motor (in neutral) and it didn't help. Went for coffee and the problem went away afterwards.

it only happened once hope it wont come again,:corn I never heard that a 05 done it but it might as you say, I have 2 friends suffering from this problem both blue ones both early 04 model, thanks for letting us that we also might have the same problem fasst:( I hope we wont :yesnod :hellobye

It's the main TPS..I just go tthe new part and it is running fine so far--I tested in nice hot slow moving rush hour traffic---the bike did not drop RPM's or shutt off. The day I took it in to have the newest TPS's put on...it died 10 times on the way to the shop. IT IS THE MAIN TPS...I am trying version 3 right now.

Originally posted by Speeder2 It's the main TPS..I just go tthe new part and it is running fine so far--I tested in nice hot slow moving rush hour traffic---the bike did not drop RPM's or shutt off. The day I took it in to have the newest TPS's put on...it died 10 times on the way to the shop. IT IS THE MAIN TPS...I am trying version 3 right now. Please foward the OEM TPS you took off to Sam for testing. If yours tests "within spec", despite an apparent successful fix by replacing it, this would be very important information. Thanks.

Would someone mind doing a re-cap on the issue, I would really hate to have to read 25+ pages.... I can't believe that this is still going on....

Originally posted by Speeder2 It's the main TPS..I just go tthe new part and it is running fine so far--I tested in nice hot slow moving rush hour traffic---the bike did not drop RPM's or shutt off. The day I took it in to have the newest TPS's put on...it died 10 times on the way to the shop. IT IS THE MAIN TPS...I am trying version 3 right now. Speeder, that's cool. Anyone else running the latest (version 3) primary TPS?? If so have you seen the glitch? Speeder, correct me if I'm wrong but, I believe you're on your second set of throttle bodies. KK

Originally posted by Eyespy Please foward the OEM TPS you took off to Sam for testing. If yours tests "within spec", despite an apparent successful fix by replacing it, this would be very important information. Thanks. Sometimes electronic components have a mind of their own. I've bench tested many devices that work fine on the bench only to fail when field install. Can't always duplicate field applications or other ambient effects on the bench. Having sad that there's no doubt Sam knows what he's doing, just that he may have trouble duplicating the malfunction on the bench..... or not. KK

Originally posted by kornking Sometimes electronic components have a mind of their own. I've bench tested many devices that work fine on the bench only to fail when field install. Can't always duplicate field applications or other ambient effects on the bench. KK That's ny whole point. I'm not looking to duplicate the "failure" on the bench, rather a failure to reproduce the failure, in a part that fails in the field, but is within spec during bench testing. But, thanks for stating the obvious! :lol

Originally posted by R1LOVER Would someone mind doing a re-cap on the issue, I would really hate to have to read 25+ pages.... I can't believe that this is still going on.... :iamwithst :lol

Originally posted by Eyespy That's ny whole point. I'm not looking to duplicate the "failure" on the bench, rather a failure to reproduce the failure, in a part that fails in the field, but is within spec during bench testing. But, thanks for stating the obvious! :lol Well thanks, I have a certain flair for the obvious!!! :machinegu

I removed both the primary and secondary TPS recently and replaced them with the 00-02 parts. In doing, I determined that both of the original TPSs were within spec as described in the SM. I sent both original TPSs to Sam who bench tested them with his oscilliscope under various conditions and found no signal abberations. If Speeder2's promary TPS also bench tests normal, but isolated replacement of it with the 00-02 TPS results in a fix, this is important for obvious reasons. This is why I asked that his replaced TPS be sent to Sam for similar testing. I won't know if I have a fix at least until I run the bike again, which won't happen before August 2nd at BW.

Hey Sam, I never got a chance to get my bike to the dealer, so I won't have the TPSs available to send you. They were nice enough to order the new parts, but they told me they are on backorder, and they didn't get it in before I had to leave for deployment a week ago. So I'll have to wait 3 months at least before I can get mine fixed.:mad:

Jason, I didnt even get to see the new paint job. This problem has been going on too long. If Yamaha doesnt fix it before the 06 comes out, I will never buy another Yamaha again. The R1 should be their best of show for motorcycles. And its crap. Why cant we figure this out? As smart as we are working together, were still lost in finding the solution. I dont give up, but I am very irritated.

And what about Graves Yamaha. I bet they know whats up. Why wont they saying anything. You cant win a superstock championship with a broken bike. They cant change the engine which includes the t.b.'s. And then their is ToBeFast. with the McCoys. How about them. You think they have built all those R1's without noticing this problem. These people should know. But are they saying anything? No. Have we asked?

I asked Graves.

Originally posted by Eyespy I asked Graves. And what did they say? We dont really know anything about the R1. Or: We have a contract with Yamaha that we would be putting into jepordy if we told you. Or: Hang on and i'll transfer you to...

-UpDate on my 04 Model- I talked to the dealership today about my bike. They said that they contacted yamaha about the problem and done some test of their own. They said that they believed it was the "Lower" TPS sensor that was causing the bike to die "and" causing the bike to run poorly. The technition that is doing the work on my bike happens to own a R1 himself, so at least that is an advantage for me. Since all the rain that we have had for the last couple of days, they are going to have to wait for further testing when it dries up. He said he wanted to really "Stretch her legs" and really make sure that was the problem. He was confident enough though that he already ordered the "lower" TPS sensor to install when it arrives. Is the "lower" TPS sensor the main one or not? Which one of these sensors controls the secondary valves? He told me that there is one on the upper right, and one on the lower left.

Sam I also have this problem but i have order both of the new tps, and will try to change it by 2morrow(Cost about $300. Singapore bike shop not yamaha dealer) i really dont know wat ken i still do to fix it if it kennt work for me.. U need the old tps? how to post to u? 1. Throttle body housing ( Sorry i not veri sure which part? ken explain?) ( Can somone post the pic so i can check ) 2. Injectors ( need to check wat?) 3. Thermo wax plunger ( Sorry i not veri sure which part? ken explain?) ( Can somone post the pic so i can check ) 4. Main throttle TPS (Change to the ver 2 u guy posted) 5. Sub-throttle servomotor ( Sorry i not veri sure which part? ken explain?)(Can somone post the pic so i can check ) 6. Sub-throttle TPS ( Sorry i not veri sure which part? Ken explain?) (Can somone post the pic so i can check ) I have heard of owners having their sub-throttle assembly removed and fuel then re-mapped. Has anybody here done that, and if so, do you have any stalling symptoms as described by those contributing to this thread? (remapped need power com?) Thank alot

I just bought my o4 yamaha r1 about a week ago. It has about 4100 miles on it. Everytime after a long ride, and when i exit the freeway, my bike just stalls on me. It happened going to san Jose, and coming back from San Jose. I automatically pull over once i exit because once I pull the clutch in, i know the bike is going to stall.

Originally posted by iampierced I just bought my o4 yamaha r1 about a week ago. It has about 4100 miles on it. Everytime after a long ride, and when i exit the freeway, my bike just stalls on me. It happened going to san Jose, and coming back from San Jose. I automatically pull over once i exit because once I pull the clutch in, i know the bike is going to stall. I hate to break it to ya--ju got prolems MANG--- Get them to replace the main tps with the new version3--check page 27 or 28 of this thread for the exact part#. It ends in 002. Good Luck and stay safe.

i use to have this problem but after cleaning my tps the problem went away i have about 3000 mile on it after cleaning...runing like a dog:)

Guys. I change both of my TPS just now in the morning, And do some normal service. Try it just now still dont know whether it work for me....:)

I finally got the new EXUP servomotor. I will get it installed soon, and the bike should be ready for testing the primary and secondary TPS replacement "fix" on Aug 2nd/3rd at Buttonwillow.

Wat is the EXUP servomotor? After changing both of the tps, the first day testing my bike so far there still dont have any problem. Hope it really work. :jump

You guys can add another to to the list 04 r1 with 6500mi (same exact problem as everyone else). The shitty thing about it is I have not had the bike a month and I am already having this happen frequently. Yamaha if your listening get your heads out of your asses!

Well I took off my TBS's no too long ago to see if I see if anything was wrong with them. Only took off the one for the servo motor. But I just turned it by hand a few times and didnt notice anything out of specs. So I put it back on. I've ridden about 150 miles with only one little hick-up. A major improvement for my bike. Has yet to cut out on me. And always idles like it should. Maybe it'll come back. Who knows? But if it does, and if this is a temporary fix, i'll take it off and cycle it again. I'll let ya'll know how the bike does over the next week or so. I see the problem coming back for some reason. Kind of reminds me of the people that say they cleaned there TPS's and it fixed the problem. I didnt clean mine. Thier was nothing to clean.

well,as i mentioned earlyer,my byke start to cut out again after 5000km since i last clean and adjust the main TPS and now i just repeat the clean(sprayng some lubricant oil around his axis and mannualy rotate him) and adjust procedure and now i've got another 1500km without the issue. i think to buy the latest revised edition of TPS......

Additional update: Received and installed the new EXUP servomotor. It is working properly, and the EXUP servomotor fault code did not reappear. While the bike was running up on work stands, with the new primary and secondary TPS installation complete, and the new EXUP servomotor, it ran great for a few minutes. Then the motor simply turned off. I got the yellow engine warning light again on the instrument panel. Engine would not start up. It was similar to the incident in May of 04 that caused me to lowside when the motor shut off in T4b at WSIR, and exactly like the incident this past May when the motor shut off in T1 at WSIR. Did another diagnostic, and picked up a code "19", the sidestand switch. Cleaned the switch contacts, no success. Engine light and not starting. Bypassed the sidestand switch completely and there no change, the problem persisted. Raised the tank, pulled the airbox, removed the ECU, cleaned all the contacts, reinstalled the ECU, put everything back together. It fired right up, no engine light, no stalling, no rough idle while on the work stands. Will test on the track at Buttonwillow on Aug 2nd/Aug 3rd and report back if I am still among the living after that :crash

Can someone tell me what is involved to get to the tps. I have just got the cut out problem at 7600 miles this pisses me off 1 month out of warrentee. Yamaha better get their stuff togather or I am changeing brands. any info would be helpful. I guess ill try and clean it for now and order the revised tps.

Originally posted by Eyespy Additional update: Raised the tank, pulled the airbox, removed the ECU, cleaned all the contacts, reinstalled the ECU, put everything back together. It fired right up, no engine light, no stalling, no rough idle while on the work stands. Will test on the track at Buttonwillow on Aug 2nd/Aug 3rd and report back if I am still among the living after that :crash Interesting. FWIW, I have not had any issues with my ride since I removed the air injection system over the winter. As you well know (sorry if I state the obvious) removing the AIS requires disconnecting the ECU. I did check an clean all the termination pins on the ECU & connector plug prior to assembly. Other than running a TB sync and a plug R & R, that is all I've done to my ride and it has NOT (knock on wood) acted up since. That is several thousand miles. Could be and probably is a coincidence. My ride has right at 12k on it. KK

How bad does this cut out thing get ? will it get to the point that it does it all the time or will it stay interminted? is there any way to make it liveable or should i trade the bike?