I'm curious, doesn't seem to be available knowledge.
It looks like Haye's bike has more power than Blake's Suzuki. But I find that hard to believe, as the crossplanes start out so much less.
From what I've seen with others building the crossplane, it's just never going to compete as far as peak power is concerned. But obviously something is working right with the Graves / Monster Yamaha's.
You won't find the info you're looking for, Graves never discloses the numbers those bikes make, and you'll be surprised how much power you can get out of the cross plane motors, according to the owner of 666 racing, which is the guy that used to build the bodywork for Ben Spies bikes, the air box is a key part for making a lot more power, obviously the stock air box is very restrictive .
I believe the Factory race teams disclose this information ala wikipedia... Not so much for private teams. All in all, these guys spend thousands if not millions in R&D to develop their race bikes... So anything is possible :dunno
but yes the crossplane can put out a good deal more HP than you
may think... i know with a proper re-flash you still leave 15%
untouched, but then thats for long life and relieability,
but yes the crossplane can put out a good deal more HP than you
may think... i know with a proper re-flash you still leave 15%
untouched, but then thats for long life and relieability, heck
they're running a race prepped YEC ECU HARNESS..
i think in the end it comes down to cooling on the crossplane, keep
that baby nice n' chilled and she'll put out. :thumbup
I think 190ish to 200 would be a fair estimate. An airbox alone will not give any engine 40 odd hp more on its own. Power is made in the cylinder head and cam selection. The Suzuki probably has more peak power,but the Graves R1 probably has a nicer curve and better delivery too. The '09 Spies won the SBK championship on had about 220 or more and was said to be the hardest '09 SBK to ride according to a testing journalist. I believe he used the term "brutal" describing its power delivery,like a highly tuned two stroke either "off" or "on". I'm sure there are gains to be had from a different airbox,but other parts are needed to realize its full potential. I can see one giving a stock crossplane 7-10 or more hp like AKDMA got from an RC51,the lid especially looks like Yamaha had the EPA in mind when designing it.
Yea I read that article where they rode all of them, they said the R1 was nasty power wise and, the torque curve was realy high and hard to ride around.
I have a pm from someone who ran AMA SBK and now works for a vendor here and he said most of the hp claims are exagerated greatly. He said for certain that on a good day Hayes' bike made low to mid 180's. He wasn't running quite as much kit and he was down about 5 hp at upper 170's. Read the AMA rulebook and you'll see how restrictive it is. You can't really even touch the bottom end, ie. oem pistons, rods and crank. Top end leaves a little room to work but they are still required to rin the stock airbox. WSBK is a whole different game as far as engine mods. I wouldn't believe too many claims of 190+hp from anyone. Tim Radley, a noted engine builder in the UK will tell ou how much work is necessary to make big hp from the x-plane. Eric Dorn of EDR Performance will tell you the same thing. It will be interesting to see how much hp the gent in the 09-up Performance Group thread will make in his build. It's loaded with YEC kit parts and hi comp pistons...
My buddy sent me the contact info for an engine builder who guaranteed mid 180's for a race motor on my 09+, but it was $2000 plus parts. And the parts list wasn't one page.
I'm having issues keeping my planker from puking coolant in the paddock, I couldn't imagine trying to chill it down with 35 more rwhp
Eric Dorn told me the x-plane needs some pretty major head work to make big numbers and with that comes heat...he said a full race radiator is a must. Add a couple grand to the build for that alone.
It matters when suzuki riders and Blake apologists are whining about not having enough power. I don't think it's the case and it'd be nice to shut them up.
I was also watching Mid-Ohio on Speed. I guess they(Graves) uses some super expensive TC where Jordan Suzuki(Hayden) is using the Bazzaz TC. I wanna say that Yamaha is using Pagani, or something that begins with a "P" I think. Can anyone chime in???
("Everyone [in AMA superbike] is around the 200-horsepower window," said Jim Roach, Hayes' Graves Motorsports Yamaha crew chief) is made. The EFI throttle bodies and airbox are stock units as per the AMA rules. This was 2011 bike
problem is the "kit" box requires the "kit" frame this is where Swan BSB ran into issue (of course this is all an opinion and no way do i pretend to know what im talking about )once they had to swap the frames..the airbox had to go too...the bike was not good mid season on....
the Graves bikes i'd "guess" 184-186rwhp on the DJ dyno. Blakes GSXR1000 makes 189 on a GOOD day... the 09+ GSXR1000 is THE #1 biggest pos ever designed and hated by those of us that build them.
what hasnt been mentioned yet is that a huge part of the "speed" difference on the straights begins in the corners.
I have been in the same race with the likes of kevin curtain on an r1 in australian FX series and seen him blow by s1000rr's.. The FX rules dont allow any engine tuning other than full system and pc3 and his bike is regularly dyno checked after each race day (since he wins a LOT). each time the power figures are 155-158 RWBHP while the beemers he is racing put out the healthy 180-185
the key to his straight line speed is getting a much better exit out of corners due to the suspension set up/throttle control/skills and massive balls of steel! lol
outright bhp always helps but it does come down to a full package. my 07r1 has no problem keeping up with the new zx10s and gixxers that put out good 15bhp more provided i get on the gas well.
i only just had head work done to my r1 and have gained about 10bhp but the biggest improvement is in how much faster the bike revs (so even with similar power it develops it over a shorter period of time) but also a really good dyno tuno. with the new tune the biggest difference isnt the top end but, how early and hard i can twist the throttle out of the corners. the increased pick up off 0 throttle is staggering compared to stock.
also, peak numbers are very deceptive. you only use the peak power for an instant. what counts is the total area under the power curve and how early in the mid range you have good power. that will determine how well you get off the corner. no one is at peak power at the corner apex.
one last bit.. AMA rules are very similar to ASBK (australian superbikes) from what i can see so those bikes most likely see somewhere around the mid 180-190 bhp at the wheel but keep in mind that those engines are torn down and inspected after each race for a factory team and rebuilt after each season if not sooner. you could not sustain that power in a road bike and keep reliability. i have seen a race piston come out of a 07 r1 that produced 200+ bhp at the wheel, and after half a season of racing the piston pretty much just crumbled away from the gudgeon pin. they just dont last
i only just had head work done to my r1 and have gained about 10bhp but the biggest improvement is in how much faster the bike revs (so even with similar power it develops it over a shorter period of time) but also a really good dyno tuno. with the new tune the biggest difference isnt the top end but, how early and hard i can twist the throttle out of the corners. the increased pick up off 0 throttle is staggering compared to stock.
great to hear.! i'm looking to have some work done in a year or so.. after i've put some real miles on the stock engine... i was hoping i'd be looking at 170ish rwhp... currently at 161hp with just a flash and custom tune.. though i'm running conservatively, keep reliability high for many years to come..
There is soooooooooo many variables that go into building an engine, mainly who’s building it and there REAL experience in working with the parts. We offer such services (engine builds, full turnkey superbikes, Daytona sportbikes etc) and we know they aren't cheap. The level of meticulous detail and time we put into things is astonishing. Reference the original question it cannot be answered but there are transparent things we offer that can make real world horsepower... We ( Graves Motorsports ) offer some great products and how those products can be used in the real world are what we specialize in. I always tend to shy away from threads requesting specific things as they tend to turn into "prove it" user ego boosting posts that go nowhere. Gains in power also need to be translated into the power under the curve (top number) a lot of time. Fat midrange when and where you need it is usually what you really want. So here is some general information that is extremely informative. - Shane
Our exhaust systems will show dyno charts with the exception of the non-street Superbike version. The tubing sizing and modifications needed to mount it make it not acceptable for a street bike. A full dual can (under tail) Graves exhaust system will reward you 11-13 HP gains over stock when tuned with a proper devise (we recommend a power commander PC5, secondary fuel model and an auto tuner from dynojet).
Our intake and exhaust camshaft set shows consistent gains additionally of 5-7 hp .. http://www.gravesport.com/Graves-Motorsports-Yamaha-R1-Racing-Camshaft-Set-09-10.html
Exhaust Systems. Here is a side note of knowledge: Add a kit ecu (not for the street, our top and bottom velocity stacks and the superbike exhaust and set up to 25 hp gains.
Lastly I'll touch on the cooling system... With big power comes greater cooling responsibilities so be sure to address these things through radiator mods and other methods... If you race our WORKS programs contain bodywork sets that have improved flow air tubes.
Please read what was posted it's accurate... The R1 most of the time baselines at 145... I don't think heads, gaskets or modding radiators defines "bolt on" hardware... but to some people it might..
Hi. Not being arsey but genuinely would like to know? My meaning of bolt on means exactly as it says “bolt on” does not needs skimming/machining etc. it just bolts on and this would deliver 145 baseline + 35 180 bhp at the wheel?
Steve
PS project going well
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