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Old 11-06-2012, 08:52 AM   #21
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Some folk just don't get it that we're not at war with Islam. We're at war with extremists, radicals and fundementalists. This administration's tactics prove there's too much of a generalization and assumption of Muslims. Political correctness caused us American lives.
I wouldn't even call it "political correctness" cause that implies someone actually thought about the plans and the execution there of...it was nothing more than an ill-conceived agenda perpetrated by this administration.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:30 AM   #22
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I wouldn't even call it "political correctness" cause that implies someone actually thought about the plans and the execution there of...it was nothing more than an ill-conceived agenda perpetrated by this administration.
I just believe the ill concieved agenda was driven by political correctness. This administration tried very hard to not alienate the Muslim community, that they likely and unknowingly gave into the sweeping generalization at their end of the spectrum. I believe they wanted to downplay, or rather lessen the impact of association with extremists and Islam. Because of that, their agenda was dilluted and flawed causing the laxadative attitude in security.
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Old 11-06-2012, 11:38 AM   #23
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I just believe the ill concieved agenda was driven by political correctness. This administration tried very hard to not alienate the Muslim community, that they likely and unknowingly gave into the sweeping generalization at their end of the spectrum. I believe they wanted to downplay, or rather lessen the impact of association with extremists and Islam. Because of that, their agenda was dilluted and flawed causing the laxadative attitude in security.
I totally agree....we are both saying the same thing...I am just less polite about it.
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Old 11-06-2012, 01:26 PM   #24
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are you guys talking about the attack or the response?
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:14 PM   #25
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are you guys talking about the attack or the response?
Both but more so the after attack.
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:21 PM   #26
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i posted a pic of the state dept. bureaucrat that denied the added security. Do you think Clinton and Obama knew about it before the attack?

The response was of course your typical cluster****...
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:25 PM   #27
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i posted a pic of the state dept. bureaucrat that denied the added security. Do you think Clinton and Obama knew about it before the attack?

The response was of course your typical cluster****...
Is that rhetorical or sarcasm?
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:34 PM   #28
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At some point you have to remove the regular gov't idiocy and incompetence from the people at the top. So when you say admin, you're implying complicit knowledge of the additional security denial. I doubt that no matter your political leanings, you will purposely have your own people killed. Of course there are risks that are always managed and evaluated but things evolve very quickly that these events will happen no matter how prepared you are.

Haven't looked at the attack response yet in detail yet so don't know about that. But of course won't we see pretty much the same ole blame game of who did what?
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:36 PM   #29
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... Obama mum about it and it's like Hillary Clinton dropped off the face of the Earth. :scratchesheadinamazement:
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Old 11-06-2012, 02:48 PM   #30
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At some point you have to remove the regular gov't idiocy and incompetence from the people at the top. So when you say admin, you're implying complicit knowledge of the additional security denial. I doubt that no matter your political leanings, you will purposely have your own people killed. Of course there are risks that are always managed and evaluated but things evolve very quickly that these events will happen no matter how prepared you are.

Haven't looked at the attack response yet in detail yet so don't know about that. But of course won't we see pretty much the same ole blame game of who did what?
I'm not implying at all like the admin took out a hit on them or something.

What I am saying is typical and what has been going on forever - the admin thought the folks on the ground were exaggerating or the admin simply thought "Meh. They are just scared/overreacting/wtfever".

So while it isn't a literal finger being pointed at them like they pulled the trigger, the intentional downplaying or ignoring the pleas/facts presented by those on the ground is basis enough for removal. Ignorance/arrogance is no get out of jail free card.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:08 PM   #31
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I respect colin powell but I respect him even more now when people always ask about his famous intel report to the UN. He said, "Yes we got it wrong."

For one reason or another it was denied, after that what more are you going to do except clean up the damage, move people out of their failures, and move on?
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:12 PM   #32
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I respect colin powell but I respect him even more now when people always ask about his famous intel report to the UN. He said, "Yes we got it wrong."

For one reason or another it was denied, after that what more are you going to do except clean up the damage, move people out of their failures, and move on?
So you're suggesting not holding the most accountable people in the country accountable?
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:17 PM   #33
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So you're suggesting not holding the most accountable people in the country accountable?

Means what you mean by "accountable" outside of showing the failures that led to the tragedy. Are you saying some people need to be jailed and/or sued?

Isn't there a clause about going into hostile zones and the assumption of the risks that go with it for gov't officials/contractors and military?
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:21 PM   #34
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Means what you mean by "accountable" outside of showing the failures that led to the tragedy. Are you saying some people need to be jailed and/or sued?

Isn't there a clause about going into hostile zones and the assumption of the risks that go with it for gov't officials/contractors and military?
Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of State; her organization is largely responsible for the failures. At a minimum, her resignation would be proper. Unfortunately, the arrogance preventing it is a good indicator of the administration's actual view of their accountability.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:43 PM   #35
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I agree with that. How great it would be for the country if politicians fell on their swords more often, even if it was the actions of their incompetent underlings.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:48 PM   #36
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I agree with that. How great it would be for the country if politicians fell on their swords more often, even if it was the actions of their incompetent underlings.
It still rolls up to her, and at that level it's plenty fair to expect that she should have ample oversight through the chain of command leading up to her to know if there is incompetence among the ranks. Remember, I said her head on a platter at a minimum. Anybody under her who was malfeasant or incompetent should be joining her.



What happens to a Navy ship commander almost ANY time their ship is involved in an incident, or their crew is?
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:49 PM   #37
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You sound very Japanese for a Whitey.


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Old 11-06-2012, 03:50 PM   #38
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You sound very Japanese for a Whitey.


The Japanese understand honor......



and a good ass kicking.




The US civilian world practically mocks honor.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:03 PM   #39
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we moralize politics and politicize morals...


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Old 11-06-2012, 04:24 PM   #40
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I am disappointed in the fact that you are coming off as making excuses for, or otherwise ignoring what this administration is repsonsible for, Jon.

Sure these brave men and women go in to hostile areas knowingly but there is no legitimate excuse when any gov't official literally leaves them out to die.
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