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Old 11-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #81
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Hey Ksac , that new gun range on 65 has been so packed everyday I can't get in to check it out .I have been wanting to to give you a heads up.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:46 PM   #82
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I'm not sure it would start out as a full assault on citizens. It would more likely begin with enforcing some kind of curfew after some kind of riots break out, etc. Then probably progress to traveling neighborhood to neighborhood to "police" the area, then get more involved step by step. At some point, they will likely get fired on, and what are they going to do? They're going to fire back. It can certainly escalate step by step in a manner that they see as being OK. If they were just initially ordered to duke it out with citizens, though, I don't see them buying into that.
The same thing they've done with morals. It's plausible to consider further demonizing a certain group to be able to neutralize them. Just think of the Jews in nazi germany. They didn't get collected and killed overnight. It was a smear campaign for several years before genocide occurred.

First we will be dissidents, then criminal agitators, heavily armed militia, then domestic terrorists, then we all get rounded up and sent to FEMA camps for re-education or worse. Who knows, at this point I've prepared for the worst.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:12 PM   #83
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And here's why we're fvcked..


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Fact is, it doesn’t matter. Not one bit. And I’ll show you mathematically:

1) When the US federal government spends money, expenses are officially categorized in three different ways.

Discretionary spending includes nearly everything we think of related to government– the US military, Air Force One, the Department of Homeland Security, TSA agents who sexually assault passengers, etc.

Mandatory spending includes entitlements like Medicare, Social Security, VA benefits, etc. which are REQUIRED by law to be paid.

The final category is interest on the debt. It is non-negotiable.

Mandatory spending and debt interest go out the door automatically. It’s like having your mortgage payment autodrafted from your bank account– Congress doesn’t even see the money, it’s automatically deducted.

2) With the rise of baby boomer entitlements and steady increase in overall debt levels, mandatory spending and interest payments have exploded in recent years. In fact, the Congressional Budget Office predicted in 2010 that the US government’s TOTAL revenue would be exceeded by mandatory spending and interest expense within 15-years.

That’s a scary thought. Except it happened the very next year.

3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion.

For Fiscal Year 2012 which just ended 37 days ago, that shortfall increased 43% to $251.8 billion.

In other words, they could cut the entirety of the Federal Government’s discretionary budget– no more military, SEC, FBI, EPA, TSA, DHS, IRS, etc.– and they would still be in the hole by a quarter of a trillion dollars.

4) Raising taxes won’t help. Since the end of World War II, tax receipts in the US have averaged 17.7% of GDP in a very tight range. The low has been 14.4% of GDP, and the high has been 20.6% of GDP.

During that period, however, tax rates have been all over the board. Individual rates have ranged from 10% to 91%. Corporate rates from 15% to 53%. Gift taxes, estate taxes, etc. have all varied. And yet, total tax revenue has stayed nearly constant at 17.7% of GDP.

It doesn’t matter how much they increase tax rates– they won’t collect any more money.

5) GDP growth prospects are tepid at best. Facing so many headwinds like quickening inflation, an enormous debt load, and debilitating regulatory burdens, the US economy is barely keeping pace with population growth.

6) The only thing registering any meaningful growth in the US is the national debt. It took over 200 years for the US government to accumulate its first trillion dollars in debt. It took just 286 days to accumulate the most recent trillion (from $15 trillion to $16 trillion).
http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/i-...-to-read-9397/
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:19 PM   #84
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CAn you say the same for FEMA, Homeland security, the FBI and such? I don't want to believe the common joe would do it, but I'm sure some would. Most cops wouldn't. They are civilians after all.
Remember how well the ATF and FBI handled Waco and that disaster They had to bring in fvcking tanks to stop that crap, that was just a bunch of fanatical hicks
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:22 PM   #85
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I'm not sure it would start out as a full assault on citizens. It would more likely begin with enforcing some kind of curfew after some kind of riots break out, etc. Then probably progress to traveling neighborhood to neighborhood to "police" the area, then get more involved step by step. At some point, they will likely get fired on, and what are they going to do? They're going to fire back. It can certainly escalate step by step in a manner that they see as being OK. If they were just initially ordered to duke it out with citizens, though, I don't see them buying into that.
They already do that in Detroit. Guess what. Citizens won. There are parts of Detroit you just don't go into at night for ANY reason. Cops, ambulances and fire trucks know to keep out at night. Of course that always sparks the news shows about "I called 911 and the cops didn't show up for hours" No shit, you live in a war zone lady.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:09 PM   #86
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The inflation spike from that kind of printing along with the devaluation of the dollar would make the printing useless. I know they would try it but it wouldn't accomplish anything besides another short term fix. I have moved all my investments into precious metals and have also bet against the dollar.
Yes, because when the doomsday like things happen, I want to be weighted down with something that I can't use as a liquid asset. Like food, gunpowder, batteries, or clothes.

In a doomsday scenario, people trade goods with goods. Not goods for gold. Look at Katrina, a pack of 4 AA batteries were going for 18 dollars a pack at one point. You know what would got that pack of batteries for next to nothing?...a bottle of water. We can all agree that water is the most important thing. If you can safely purify water at a consistent basis, you will have the choice to have whatever object at an "end of the world" scenario. Simply from the standpoint of Maslow's hierarchy of basic human needs. At some point, the body will ignore all reason and do whatever it can to survive.

Long story short, Money is worthless in a end of world scenario. People who can do highly skilled mechanical labor and are quick thinking to problems that allow people to have a hint of life before it all collapses will be the "people of power." These people will be followed by the medical staff, etc. If you have water, you will have power. The world has always been like this, as life is sustained only by dihydrogen monoxide.

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Honestly, for the US to get back to any semblance of its former self, where the country was mostly filled with people that were willing to do whatever it takes to overcome enormous hardship, we'd have to have a gigantic bitch slap. The Great Depression did that. The average family struggled to simply exist. Their priorities were family, food, shelter, hard work, living within their meager means. We're so far from that now, it's pathetic. There ain't no politician or government program () that can restore that.
This is exactly the case in point. The problem is that if it were to return to "it's former self", would anything better come from that? Better yet, would what come from it be better than the information, lives, etc. that we currently have, being lost be worth the process that it would be. Think of it as a current day medieval. Only difference is the amount of deaths that would come from it all.

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I hate to say it, but a true reset would do this country some good with a little social engineering. The well equipped, smart and diligent will survive, the lemmings will fall off the cliff.
Or the lemmings would be the ones murdering the diligent at night in their sleep after working their asses off to feed their loved ones.

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Old 11-08-2012, 09:15 PM   #87
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Yes, because when the doomsday like things happen, I want to be weighted down with something that I can't use as a liquid asset. Like food, gunpowder, batteries, or clothes.

In a doomsday scenario, people trade goods with goods. Not goods for gold. Look at Katrina, a pack of 4 AA batteries were going for 18 dollars a pack at one point. You know what would got that pack of batteries for next to nothing?...a bottle of water. We can all agree that water is the most important thing. If you can safely purify water at a consistent basis, you will have the choice to have whatever object at an "end of the world" scenario. Simply from the standpoint of Maslow's hierarchy of basic human needs. At some point, the body will ignore all reason and do whatever it can to survive.

Long story short, Money is worthless in a end of world scenario. People who can do highly skilled mechanical labor and are quick thinking to problems that allow people to have a hint of life before it all collapses will be the "people of power." These people will be followed by the medical staff, etc. If you have water, you will have power. The world has always been like this, as life is sustained only by dihydrogen monoxide.



This is exactly the case in point. The problem is that if it were to return to "it's former self", would anything better come from that?



Or the lemmings would be the ones murdering the diligent at night in their sleep after working their asses off to feed their loved ones.
Gold is wealth embodied. It cannot be lost by digital manipulation. For the record, the people who plan to go camping as a bug out plan will be the first victims.

Can't be worse than what's about to happen.


Being diligent would preclude being killed in their sleep.

Is GC back?
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #88
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They already do that in Detroit. Guess what. Citizens won. There are parts of Detroit you just don't go into at night for ANY reason. Cops, ambulances and fire trucks know to keep out at night. Of course that always sparks the news shows about "I called 911 and the cops didn't show up for hours" No shit, you live in a war zone lady.
Once the cops were reduced to minimum wage, that war was lost. Detroit is dead. It's ahead of the curve for the other liberal bastion cities, they will soon follow if they don't stop the bleeding.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:26 PM   #89
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Please tell me most of y'all are drunk.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:38 PM   #90
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Please tell me most of y'all are drunk.
Well hydro'd. Back is killing me tonight.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:43 PM   #91
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@ rex's comment about gold being useless. you obviously haven't seen the documentaries where people in 3rd world countries buying bread with gold flakes because it's the only thing that can be trusted as any kind of value.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:52 PM   #92
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@ rex's comment about gold being useless. you obviously haven't seen the documentaries where people in 3rd world countries buying bread with gold flakes because it's the only thing that can be trusted as any kind of value.
I seriously think silver is where I'm going. Lesser value so you can use it for smaller purchases. The rest is invested in gear and consumables. There have been gold bars turning up with tungsten cores. Mainly in the big city exchanges.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:54 PM   #93
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I seriously think silver is where I'm going. Lesser value so you can use it for smaller purchases. The rest is invested in gear and consumables. There have been gold bars turning up with tungsten cores. Mainly in the big city exchanges.
agreed on silver, i was just arguing the value of precious metals still having value
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:55 PM   #94
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agreed on silver, i was just arguing the value of precious metals still having value
If you've got the cash, you should hold both. I'm poor, so junk silver is my choice.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:21 PM   #95
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Before everybody gets all giddy over Obama "signing a law to allow guns to be carried in National Parks" you should also understand all the facts:

1. The Bush Administration originally lifted the ban on firearms carry in National Parks due to the difficulty of traveling between state and federal lands because of the differences in their gun laws.
2. A Federal Judge blocked the lifting of the ban by the Bush Administration.
3. Obama's administration declined to appeal the judge's ruling.
4. Congress passed the law allowing it, but the focus of the law was NOT gun carry in national parks; it was a Credit Card Reform Act, which was BIG political points at the time due to the bailout packages and related financial issues at the time. Carrying guns in nat'l parks was simply an item shoe-horned into this act, of which the Pres would have never even considered striking down due to the actual credit card issues the law primarily focused on.
5. Obama signed it into law with no mention whatsoever that it had anything to do with allowing gun carry in nat'l parks. The media lept on that, then Obama subsequently made passing mentions of it because of the political value, nothing more.

Same story for being able to carry on Amtrak trains, it was tagged onto a transportation appropriations bill.

Do you really think the President who disagreed with the Supreme Court ruling on gun bans would have ever passed a law that was solely aimed at allowing gun carry in nat'l parks or on trains? Please.

Romney is no better, in spite of his recent, questionably timed cuddling up to gun rights advocates.

I am glad to see that someone else understands how the system works and how some laws do come to pass by being grouped into something else that may be a required evil, etc,etc..

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Gold is wealth embodied. It cannot be lost by digital manipulation. For the record, the people who plan to go camping as a bug out plan will be the first victims.

Can't be worse than what's about to happen.


Being diligent would preclude being killed in their sleep.

Is GC back?

I agree about it can't be digitally manipulated, but gold is only valuable if the party is interested in it. I would rather have goods that are usable. If the water in the area is toxic and you aren't able to spend the time to remove toxins by boiling, etc. Then bottled water will get you by until you can find a safe place to re-fill what it is that you need to survive. If you are starving, and haven't eaten in days, your gold stock will quickly lose value to you as your body screams for the required nutrients it needs to sustain itself. Long story short, you can't eat gold to survive.

While I do agree that people who go camping out as a way to avoid the masses will likely succumb to death the fastest. However, much can be said for survival if no person ever knows you are even in the area. Leave no trace is taught survival tactic in the military and by survival experts when in a less than hospitable location for rather obvious reasons.


And who is GC?

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@ rex's comment about gold being useless. you obviously haven't seen the documentaries where people in 3rd world countries buying bread with gold flakes because it's the only thing that can be trusted as any kind of value.
Obviously not. Did Glenn Beck and associates pay to have it "documented?"

Besides since when has livestock, bread, and water not been valuable? See above comment about gold not providing sustenance. From an elemental standpoint on a survival basis, gold is pretty worthless. It doesn't provide any relevant help to human metabolism (it is actually HIGHLY toxic from being a heavy metal), it's soft nature disallows it a usable source for anything other than gamma-ray blocking (lead and concrete are more readily available, and thus likely to be used), heat blocking (an area that it excels at, but from the high cost, inhibits it's use in many areas that composites can do the job), and as monetary supporter.

Carrying around pounds of gold in an apocalyptic scenario that you guys are dreaming will happen will do one thing. Make you a target.

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Old 11-09-2012, 03:18 AM   #96
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CAn you say the same for FEMA, Homeland security, the FBI and such? I don't want to believe the common joe would do it, but I'm sure some would. Most cops wouldn't. They are civilians after all.
I disagree... cops are being trained to fight and kill civilians. They're being outfitted with para military equipment that they shouldn't have. We have national gaurd for the serious shit.

Look at all the police brutality that's going on. Cops are so trigger happy they're killing the victims that called 911. They're killing the guy on his couch with a tv remote in his hand after they kicked in the wrong door.

Give them more power, money, and food for their families and most cops will happily slaughter the dissidents.

I don't hope that the cops will help us fight the military, I hope the military will help us fight the cops.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:24 AM   #97
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Remember how well the ATF and FBI handled Waco and that disaster They had to bring in fvcking tanks to stop that crap, that was just a bunch of fanatical hicks
The smear campaign is working... The government told you through the media that they were a bunch of nuts who needed to be brought in. The truth is... the ATF was serving a search warrant because they believed the residents to have illegal weapons (they did not). When David Koresh opened the front door (unarmed), he was fired upon. The residents of the compound returned fire, heros in my book.

The residents believed their lives were in danger, that's why they refused to come out. When the place caught fire many women and children went to the bunker, a reinforced concrete room that was a records vault from an old church. It had a large hole blown through the roof of 6" steel reinforced concrete and their bodies were turned to hamburger. People comiting suicide by fire don't retreat to a bunker to avoid the fire. The feds tell you a cs grenade must have blown that hole. There is flir video of machine gun fire aimed at the ONLY undamaged exit from the fire. The feds will tell you that it was just reflections from the sun. Yet... most of the bodies had bullet holes in them. They tried to escape the fire and were mowed down by machine guns.

Sure, some of them probably did commit suicide but most wanted to live. The feds saw to it that they didn't. But the media told you they were a bunch of fanatical hicks and you believe it. The same will be said about preppers as the government starts cracking down on them and you'll believe it then too.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:20 AM   #98
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Hey Ksac , that new gun range on 65 has been so packed everyday I can't get in to check it out .I have been wanting to to give you a heads up.
They picked the perfect spot and the perfect city to locate in; that place was screaming for a facility like that. I'd imagine they will be packed for many years.

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Long story short, Money is worthless in a end of world scenario. People who can do highly skilled mechanical labor and are quick thinking to problems that allow people to have a hint of life before it all collapses will be the "people of power."
That sounds strangely like the working middle class, the same people who are saddled with the biggest tax burden to support all the parasites. You mean they will have the best odds of survival and doing so would effectively shake the dead weight from their backs? Awesome, let's get this doomsday thing kicked off.

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agreed on silver, i was just arguing the value of precious metals still having value
It has value in that scenario because the people receiving it can still exchange it for money that has a value to it. Under the scenarios being talked about, all the value is in necessities. In those circumstances, if you needed medicine and I had it, but I needed water, I would trade the medicine to you for the water even if some jackwipe with a wagon full of gold was standing there needing medicine as well.

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While I do agree that people who go camping out as a way to avoid the masses will likely succumb to death the fastest. However, much can be said for survival if no person ever knows you are even in the area. Leave no trace is taught survival tactic in the military and by survival experts when in a less than hospitable location for rather obvious reasons.
hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people heading for the woods is not camping; it's going to be next to impossible to unknowingly be in an area. Unless you've bought a missile silo in South Dakota and converted it into a place that you can get to quickly and live there for a long time without surfacing, then just foolishly believing you can trek off to the woods with nobody finding out you're there, is going to get you an early E-ticket.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:15 AM   #99
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The only problem is it is a real beotch to get to that road most of the time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:36 AM   #100
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Interesting topic thus far. I am curious so I started a poll. Please vote -

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=347128
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