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Old 11-16-2012, 01:34 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
On the subject of Open Carry, it is a hotly debated subject in Alabama, mostly because the law is confusing, and I think secondly because people don't understand English, including lawyers and judges. There is NOT a consensus among Sheriffs of what the law says and they will arrest or not arrest based on their opinion or on more localized ordinances.

The Alabama law on carrying a pistol is as follows:



IMO, this section clearly states that you can NOT carry a pistol (open or concealed) unless you are on your own property or on property of which you are under control (rental property, leased property, etc.). The exception clause at the beginning says that elsewhere in Article 13A there may be additional language that makes exception to this.

The Alabama Open Carry organization, and plenty of other supporters, hang their hat on the following additional language that is in Article 13A:



IMO, this section says that you can NOT carry a pistol in your vehicle (open or concealed) or concealed on yourself without a license UNLESS you are on your own land, in your apartment, condo, etc... or in your business. The pro-Open Carry crowd claims this language does not specifically disallow open carry on your person, claiming it's meaning is to require you to have a license to carry it concealed, and therefore Open Carry on your person is legal and you do not need a license to do it. IMO, you cant ignore the Title of this section, which is "License to carry pistol in vehicle
or concealed on person
Required." This means the language immediately following it for Article 13A-11-73 is ONLY addressing carrying a pistol in a vehicle and carrying a pistol concealed. It is NOT addressing anything to do with Open Carry, or making any kind of assumption that open carry is legal. For this reason, I think their argument is bogus and they are recklessly telling people that Open Carry is legal due to this language.

That said, there have been legal rulings that agree with their position, with the common ruling that Article 13A-11-73 "does not prohibit the open carrying of an unlicensed pistol". I don't know about anybody else, but again, this section deals specifically with the subject of carrying pistols in vehicles and carrying pistols concealed....NOTHING else, and Article 13A-11-73 clearly prohibits Open Carry unless you're on your own property, unless there was further language in Article 13A that provided otherwise. Claiming that open carry is not prohibited in 13A-11-73 is not something that is provided, it is something that is being assumed to be provided because it is not specifically addressed. And Again, this section's title clearly states what the section is providing, and anything other than carrying in vehicles or carrying concealed is NOT provided.

As much as I am in support of Open Carry, if I were a juror, I would tell anybody that got busted for open carry in Alabama that they broke the law, although I would suggest a $0 fine.

I do wish they would amend the gun carry laws to be less confusing and positively state what is allowed, and not leave it up to dubious interpretations, but I'm just a citizen.....what do I know.
Firearms laws from state to state are dubious at best(unless you live in Arizona or Vermont right now) and some of the firearms laws in those states contradict other firearms laws within those same states! Not to mention most LEOs simply interpret them as they see fit, whether it is actually legal or not.

Example -

In Texas it is legal, by law, to have a concealed pistol in your vehicle without a license.

It doesn't mean a f*cking pig won't arrest you for it and get away with doing so, however.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:35 PM   #202
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California should be outlawed.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:38 PM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
On the subject of Open Carry, it is a hotly debated subject in Alabama, mostly because the law is confusing, and I think secondly because people don't understand English, including lawyers and judges. There is NOT a consensus among Sheriffs of what the law says and they will arrest or not arrest based on their opinion or on more localized ordinances.

The Alabama law on carrying a pistol is as follows:



IMO, this section clearly states that you can NOT carry a pistol (open or concealed) unless you are on your own property or on property of which you are under control (rental property, leased property, etc.). The exception clause at the beginning says that elsewhere in Article 13A there may be additional language that makes exception to this.

The Alabama Open Carry organization, and plenty of other supporters, hang their hat on the following additional language that is in Article 13A:



IMO, this section says that you can NOT carry a pistol in your vehicle (open or concealed) or concealed on yourself without a license UNLESS you are on your own land, in your apartment, condo, etc... or in your business. The pro-Open Carry crowd claims this language does not specifically disallow open carry on your person, claiming it's meaning is to require you to have a license to carry it concealed, and therefore Open Carry on your person is legal and you do not need a license to do it.

IMO, you cant ignore the Title of this section, which is "License to carry pistol in vehicle or concealed on person Required." This means the language immediately following it for Article 13A-11-73 is ONLY addressing carrying a pistol in a vehicle and carrying a pistol concealed. It is NOT addressing anything to do with Open Carry, or making any kind of assumption that open carry is legal. For this reason, I think their argument is bogus and they are recklessly telling people that Open Carry is legal due to this language.

That said, there have been legal rulings that agree with their position, with the common ruling that Article 13A-11-73 "does not prohibit the open carrying of an unlicensed pistol". I don't know about anybody else, but again, this section deals specifically with the subject of carrying pistols in vehicles and carrying pistols concealed....NOTHING else, and Article 13A-11-73 clearly prohibits Open Carry unless you're on your own property, unless there was further language in Article 13A that provided otherwise. Claiming that open carry is not prohibited in 13A-11-73 is not something that is provided, it is something that is being assumed to be provided because it is not specifically addressed. And Again, this section's title clearly states what the section is providing, and anything other than carrying in vehicles or carrying concealed is NOT provided.

As much as I am in support of Open Carry, if I were a juror, I would tell anybody that got busted for open carry in Alabama that they broke the law, although I would suggest a $0 fine.

I do wish they would amend the gun carry laws to be less confusing and positively state what is allowed, and not leave it up to dubious interpretations, but I'm just a citizen.....what do I know.
Laws make things illegal. You don't need a law that says you CAN do something. The language specifically says you cannot carry a fire arm concealed, it does not say you cannot carry a firearm. Therefore, IMO, OC is legal until the rewrite it to say you cannot 'carry a firearm'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kangaroo View Post
Ha, California has you beat... Open carry has been outlawed.
Imagine that...
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:44 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
California should be outlawed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fikays View Post
Firearms laws from state to state are dubious at best(unless you live in Arizona or Vermont right now) and some of the firearms laws in those states contradict other firearms laws within those same states! Not to mention most LEOs simply interpret them as they see fit, whether it is actually legal or not.

Example -

In Texas it is legal, by law, to have a concealed pistol in your vehicle without a license.

It doesn't mean a f*cking pig won't arrest you for it and get away with doing so, however.
Fvcking pigs should be held accountable for arresting anyone for anything that is not illegal.
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Old 11-16-2012, 01:56 PM   #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
Laws make things illegal. You don't need a law that says you CAN do something.
I agree, but when you are already adding language making something illegal, it can only help to clarify the related subject matter that IS legal. I tend to be on your side that this should not be done, but lawmakers have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are too fcvking stupid to craft clear legal language.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Creeping Death View Post
The language specifically says you cannot carry a fire arm concealed, it does not say you cannot carry a firearm. Therefore, IMO, OC is legal until the rewrite it to say you cannot 'carry a firearm'.
The very first section of the Article that addresses carrying guns states:

no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control...

it says nothing of concealed or unconcealed, it addresses ALL carrying, and it makes all forms of it illegal unless there is additional language making an exception to it.

Section 52 made all gun carrying illegal; section 73 made, in particular, carrying in a vehicle and concealed on your person legal IF you had a license. Open carry still remains illegal due to Section 52 and absent any additional language qualifying it as legal via some other reason.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:04 PM   #206
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seems pretty clear cut to me. Sounds like Cali.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:06 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
I agree, but when you are already adding language making something illegal, it can only help to clarify the related subject matter that IS legal. I tend to be on your side that this should not be done, but lawmakers have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are too fcvking stupid to craft clear legal language.




The very first section of the Article that addresses carrying guns states:

no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control...

it says nothing of concealed or unconcealed, it addresses ALL carrying, and it makes all forms of it illegal unless there is additional language making an exception to it.

Section 52 made all gun carrying illegal; section 73 made, in particular, carrying in a vehicle and concealed on your person legal IF you had a license. Open carry still remains illegal due to Section 52 and absent any additional language qualifying it as legal via some other reason.
I looked back at your post again, you're right. I first read it while doing office work and missed it.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:24 PM   #208
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I'm surprised Alabama has such confusing laws. I figured open carry, not only of handguns but also long arms, would be allowed. I figured the back woods rednecks that are there would've ensured that stayed on the books.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:46 PM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
California should be outlawed.
+1 on that for sure...

As for OC, I don't. I think it is asking for trouble. I don't want people to know I am carrying for one thing.

Creep... has anyone ever called the police on you just because they saw you had a gun? I can see that happening way too often.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:21 PM   #210
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I'm surprised Alabama has such confusing laws. I figured open carry, not only of handguns but also long arms, would be allowed. I figured the back woods rednecks that are there would've ensured that stayed on the books.
It specifically says "Pistol". Didn't say anything about long arms, at least what Kirk posted. That would make them legal.
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+1 on that for sure...

As for OC, I don't. I think it is asking for trouble. I don't want people to know I am carrying for one thing.

Creep... has anyone ever called the police on you just because they saw you had a gun? I can see that happening way too often.
No but I won't be too surprised if it happens. I'm not worried, I'm ready for that conversation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:56 PM   #211
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It specifically says "Pistol". Didn't say anything about long arms, at least what Kirk posted. That would make them legal.
I was being facetious in my response.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:09 PM   #212
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Indiana has no laws about rifles. We can carry full auto machine guns on our person in public buildings without recourse. Red state, red super majority, red governor, 1 billion dollar budget surplus.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:17 PM   #213
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Indiana has no laws about rifles. We can carry full auto machine guns on our person in public buildings without recourse. Red state, red super majority, red governor, 1 billion dollar budget surplus.
Same here

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:08 PM   #214
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They are pretty good about the carry laws here and most law enforcement respect the fact here.you can open carry or concealed here. No federal or businesses that put a sticker on the front door indicating they do not wish that in their place. I respect the law but the whole businesses that do that I still carry but don't mention it to anyone I'm with or let it print so someone will notice. I do it at the mall just because those pricks can't protect you when you leave so screw 'em.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:22 PM   #215
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Those door stickers mean nothing here. All they can do is ask you to leave.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:26 PM   #216
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Those door stickers mean nothing here. All they can do is ask you to leave.
With the exception of courts, federal buildings (USPS included), etc. The same applies. If they ask and you refuse, they can call the police and you're ticketed with a misdemeanor.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:29 PM   #217
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Those door stickers mean nothing here. All they can do is ask you to leave.
Most people just take the southern approach of "Bless their hearts".
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:33 PM   #218
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Those door stickers mean nothing here. All they can do is ask you to leave.
Only a specific state ordered sticker works here. That firearms prohibited sign doesn't mean a thing

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Old 11-16-2012, 07:37 PM   #219
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They are state stickers here.
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Old 11-16-2012, 07:39 PM   #220
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i'll add my 2 cents on a couple posts i've seen. i for one don't mind OC'ing because the places that i do are either out in the woods, or when i come into large chain grocery stores, or walmarts or something where there's no threat of immediately being seen if something is going down. any kind of closer type quarters environments and i'll always CC.

next regarding carrying any weapon platform in indiana, i've open carried my backpacking rifle (swing under collapsible stock) on my back through downtown with a 30rd mag loaded, a cop stopped me and asked if i had a round in the chamber, i said no and i showed him that i didn't and he just said "well then have a nice day". i have no idea if having a round chambered makes a legal difference or not, but i'm glad i didn't.

jon, did they really make OC illegal in cali? when i lived there i got a CC permit out of orange county because of my job so i never had to worry about the OC stuff.
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