Why countersteer????? - Page 52 : Yamaha R1 Forum
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Old 11-16-2012, 09:59 AM   #1021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheong1106 View Post
Turn later. You are probably applying CS correctly. But due to the flick rate being much faster. You find yourself inside the turn. How to resolve
1) Turn later
2) shorten the time you apply pressure and thus less lean.
3) increase speeds thru turn

Pls note. The idea of cornering is
1) as fast as possible
2) as little lean as possible


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And the biggest factor is the road and the tires and the bike setup all make it different for everybody that does it! Some roads have a banked curve some roads are flat some roads are off camber. And it all makes a huge difference. And you have to adjust what you do for each one encountered. I have a lot of crowned roads that are a pain in the ass to ride at times. The bike responds much quicker and will catch you day dreaming if not careful.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #1022
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Kmac I am going pretty fast because otherwise it would only take a small input to snap the bike over, your just being antagonistic.

Cheong 1106 Turn later would be fine if the bike would lean over instead of swerve and lean; Shorten the time might work and it might well be that I am taking too long to countersteer resulting in more a swerve towards the inside of the bend and a slow lean rate; increasing speeds wont help because I am already having trouble getting the bike to lean quickly over without swerving too much, more speed will probably make it even harder; I agree with you about the idea but putting it in to practice is the problem

Stonewall thx for the advice but I am having the same problem on different roads and surfaces so I dont think your comments really help

Last edited by Bilko1000; 11-16-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:34 PM   #1023
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Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Kmac I am going pretty fast because otherwise it would only take a small input to snap the bike over, your just being antagonistic.

Cheong 1106 Turn later would be fine if the bike would lean over instead of swerve and lean; Shorten the time might work and it might well be that I am taking too long to countersteer resulting in more a swerve towards the inside of the bend and a slow lean rate; increasing speeds wont help because I am already having trouble getting the bike to lean quickly over without swerving too much, more speed will probably make it even harder; I agree with you about the idea but putting it in to practice is the problem

Stonewall thx for the advice but I am having the same problem on different roads and surfaces so I dont think your comments really help
Take some video of yourself riding. Take some from mounted on the bike looking forward, and take some with the camera at the exit of a turn looking back at the whole turn. Post it up.
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Old 11-17-2012, 12:28 AM   #1024
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Take some video of yourself riding. Take some from mounted on the bike looking forward, and take some with the camera at the exit of a turn looking back at the whole turn. Post it up.
That's a damn good idea.

I have vids of my track days. Youtube. Search "2012 R1 Pasir Gudang" and you should find me.

Maybe look at the vids then describe how your "swerve" is. Best is to post it.

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Old 11-17-2012, 01:29 AM   #1025
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Kmac I am going pretty fast because otherwise it would only take a small input to snap the bike over, your just being antagonistic.

Cheong 1106 Turn later would be fine if the bike would lean over instead of swerve and lean; Shorten the time might work and it might well be that I am taking too long to countersteer resulting in more a swerve towards the inside of the bend and a slow lean rate; increasing speeds wont help because I am already having trouble getting the bike to lean quickly over without swerving too much, more speed will probably make it even harder; I agree with you about the idea but putting it in to practice is the problem

Stonewall thx for the advice but I am having the same problem on different roads and surfaces so I dont think your comments really help
I think I know what your talking about since once in a while my bike kinda swerves abit before leaning. Im thinking it could be just from over thinking the turn and applying a little too much pressure abruptly on the clipons when trying to lean in. Try and relax and, get your body in position and push the right clip on as smooth as possible. Just takes practice

If im wrong I apologize just thought id give my 2 cents.

Last edited by xLatinox; 11-17-2012 at 01:35 AM.
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:29 AM   #1026
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No you might be right xlatinox I think I am holding the pressure too long after the turn in point, resulting in a swerve and eventually some lean, perhaps I should push harder, release sooner and lean my torso in simultaneously to the turn a bit more to maintain/improve my roll rate.

Currently I am pushing quite hard on the bar but sort of increasing the pressure up to the max torque over about a second or 2. I think the bike is swerving as I increase the pressure and then leaning a bit further once the pressure has built up to a sufficient force. But by the time the pressure has built up to max the bike has already swerved offline from the steady increasing pressure. Once I get to max pressure the bike lean rate seems to have slowed, probably because trail has aligned the front wheel with the rear wheel by the time max pressure is reached.

On right hand bends the above habit does not bother me because I can choose a turning in point to account for it as I can see around the bend. But left hand bends are very hard to judge at speed because of my habit and they are blind corners on uk roads.

Do you think pushing harder, then releasing the pressure as soon as the bike begins to swerve hard from the push steer will convert that swerve in to a lean and allow the bike to arc in to the curve.

Im sure my countersteer problems are related to timing and specifically when to release the pressure. I think I have read too much in to statements that holding the pressure increases the lean angle, but I dont think this is the case because despite holding the pressure, I am not leaning over too far.

I think the initial countersteering push causes the front wheel to deflect resulting in the forward thrust from the back wheel producng a kink torque around the steering head leaning the bike over. But after kink torque is produced I think the pressure on the bars should be release to prevent the back wheel aligning with the front wheel slowing the lean rate and to allow the front wheel to track the bend.


What I am trying to say is :

should I be pressing quicker/harder at the turning point and releasing the pressure as soon as the bike feels like it has reached its maximum roll rate and if necessary steer in to the corner to arrest the lean angle and slow the roll rate until the right lean angle is achieved then release bar pressure all together or

continue pressing moderately up to maximum pressure at the turning in point and holding max pressure until the correct lean angle is reached then releasing the max pressure when the bike reaches max lean angle?

The latter technique seems to be taking me wide at the moment and resulting in a slow rate of lean and never reaching max lean angle. The first technique might be the solution?
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:58 AM   #1027
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You should quit thinking about it while you're doing it, it sounds like you are going through a mental checklist of the mechanics of turning. You can't do them all in series like that. Even though some of the things happen in series, there's not time to think about it and then execute it; it all has to be fluid and happen together in rapid, automatic succession.
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Old 11-17-2012, 01:01 PM   #1028
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If the bike is "swerving" while you are making your steering input, you are going like 30 mph.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:17 PM   #1029
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Well maybe swerving is the wrong expression, drifting to the inside too much while leaning it over is probably more accurate
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:21 PM   #1030
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If the bike is swerving while in the corner or when turning in you may also have suspension setup issues...as all the guys here have stated the cornering process should be relatively effortless and things tend to happen naturally when the bike responds as it should. Just a thought..
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Old 11-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #1031
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Well maybe swerving is the wrong expression, drifting to the inside too much while leaning it over is probably more accurate


That's called turning. It sounds like you are turning in too early.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:25 PM   #1032
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Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Well maybe swerving is the wrong expression, drifting to the inside too much while leaning it over is probably more accurate
Quote:
Originally Posted by fiveoh View Post
That's called turning. It sounds like you are turning in too early.
This or...

Sounds to me like too much lean for the speed...

Less lean or pick up the pace? Or turn in later...
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:02 PM   #1033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post

What I am trying to say is :

should I be pressing quicker/harder at the turning point and releasing the pressure as soon as the bike feels like it has reached its maximum roll rate and if necessary steer in to the corner to arrest the lean angle and slow the roll rate until the right lean angle is achieved then release bar pressure all together or

continue pressing moderately up to maximum pressure at the turning in point and holding max pressure until the correct lean angle is reached then releasing the max pressure when the bike reaches max lean angle?

The latter technique seems to be taking me wide at the moment and resulting in a slow rate of lean and never reaching max lean angle. The first technique might be the solution?
You will NEVER get good or fast if you honestly think about this while riding

You should lean the bike as quickly as possible to the lean angle needed to make the corner on your line, then roll on the throttle
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:26 PM   #1034
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Originally Posted by Bilko1000 View Post
Well maybe swerving is the wrong expression, drifting to the inside too much while leaning it over is probably more accurate
You should try either lean less when you go into a turn and then apply more lean and a little throttle as the turn sharpens or just start leaning a little later than usual.

Go somewhere where you can see the whole turn so you can see oncoming cars if you can so you wont be worried about hitting one and just practice. and take a buddy with you knows how to ride good and ask him to follow you and he should give you some tips/feedback.
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Old 11-20-2012, 12:41 AM   #1035
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A common mistake many make when applying CS is the way they do it. If your arms are straight and on top of the bars the amount of force you are applying will not be directly to steering. It's like the force is being applied to the top of the bars not to the sides. I don't know how to explain this, can anyone do a better job explaining?
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:56 AM   #1036
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A common mistake many make when applying CS is the way they do it. If your arms are straight and on top of the bars the amount of force you are applying will not be directly to steering. It's like the force is being applied to the top of the bars not to the sides. I don't know how to explain this, can anyone do a better job explaining?

Yup, you are looking to have a relatively deep bend in your elbows. This puts your forearms more in line with the arc that the bars move through, and increases the efficiency of your steering input.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #1037
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Yup, you are looking to have a relatively deep bend in your elbows. This puts your forearms more in line with the arc that the bars move through, and increases the efficiency of your steering input.
Push the handlebars forward, with the force kinda parallel to the road. Instead of the force pointing 45 degree forward and downward.

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Old 08-15-2013, 06:08 PM   #1038
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Hi sorry to restart an old thread but I am still not clear on countersteering.

Is it a momentary push or a continuous one.

My bike only seems to drift to the side if I push continuously but a quick push leans the bike quicker but not as far.

Someone really needs to explain how to do this properly, if I need to get to full lean quickly how does the pressure differ in duration and force as opposed to leaning over slowly.

How do you increase lean angle, is holding pressure for longer the answer or a quicker harder initial press?

I think people understand the concept of countersteering but no one can really explain how to apply it properly?

Push left go left push right go right is too basic for meaning ful instruction?

Keith Codes video shows the bars moving opposite the direction of lean but there is no indication of the bikes speed in the video.

My bars move at 20 - 30 mph but above that I barely see them moving at all, is this because of the greater speed or because I am not pushing hard enough. Do the bars move say at speeds of 60 plus mph?

Even the Twist II video does not explain the relationship between speed, handlebar angle and bar pressure and gives the impression that at all speeds the bars need to turn in the opposite direction to initate the lean.

Initiate the lean is also confusing as well. When I push on the bars the lean starts, it does not continue though if the bar pressure is released, so in my mind bar pressure dosn`t initiate the lean it increases it while the pressure is held continuously but if you hold the same pressure the bike only leans so far. I think you have to continue adding pressure to increase lean angle?

Can anyone explain the application of countersteering clearly?
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:30 PM   #1039
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Seriously think you're trolling now.
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Old 01-26-2014, 12:12 AM   #1040
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I'm not sure what your question is about? Counter steering is the only way to steer a motorcycle. You're not going to be able to steer motorcycle (at speed) any other way. If you can turn your motorcycle at speed in the direction you want to go, you are counter steering whether know it, or not.

To me the important thing is to know is that you are counter steering so that when you get in a situation where you have to turn the bike quickly in a particular direction, you'll consciously turn the handlebars hard in the opposite direction you want to go.
Consciousness is important. I remember when I first started riding years back , I wasnt aware I was counter steering and one day I was going around a curve and a guy was backing out a trailer he didnt see me and my instincts made me turn the bike in the direction I wanted to go instead of the opposite direction which would have put me where I needed to go I almost hurt my self real bad from that day on I practiced every day to conter steer and that the only way to be safe on the road..

just an input of my experience with being conscious about it
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