HOW TO: Motorcycle Suspension Setup 101

[black89]

I tried searching but couldn't fine a baseline front/rear ride height, trail, rake, swingarm angle to shoot for on the 04-05 R1. I have Ohlins 20mm kit in front racetech spring and valves with the collar in the rear. 200/55 rear UK Dunlops Medium

I have the forks flush with the triple and my problem is with 38mm front hot rider sag I can't lean the bike over and when I can it feels like it's going to fall. I changed from 7 lines showing to 6 lines showing on the front preload and it helped out a ton but felt stiff. Is it common to use fork extenders on these bikes? I can't lower the stock rear shock.

I was excited the bike was working awesome at JGP after adding some rear compression to keep it from running wide on corner exit. Then I took it to Homestead that has lots of hard trail braking and it wouldn't turn for shit. I added 3 clicks rebound and two clicks compression in front which each seemed to help and then the preload which made a bigger difference. I think it's a geometry issue.

[LudjakR1]

I think i will go with race tech springs and race tech shock spring 1.0kg. Do you guys think that will be ok for my riding level once tuned?

[r1ian]

Originally Posted by black89

I tried searching but couldn't fine a baseline front/rear ride height, trail, rake, swingarm angle to shoot for on the 04-05 R1. I have Ohlins 20mm kit in front racetech spring and valves with the collar in the rear. 200/55 rear UK Dunlops Medium

I have the forks flush with the triple and my problem is with 38mm front hot rider sag I can't lean the bike over and when I can it feels like it's going to fall. I changed from 7 lines showing to 6 lines showing on the front preload and it helped out a ton but felt stiff. Is it common to use fork extenders on these bikes? I can't lower the stock rear shock.

I was excited the bike was working awesome at JGP after adding some rear compression to keep it from running wide on corner exit. Then I took it to Homestead that has lots of hard trail braking and it wouldn't turn for shit. I added 3 clicks rebound and two clicks compression in front which each seemed to help and then the preload which made a bigger difference. I think it's a geometry issue.

I have been having problems getting my R1 to turn in ever since I put a 200/55 tire on. It handled perfectly when I had a 190 on it.

[graphitegripper]

subscribed

[black89]

Originally Posted by r1ian

I have been having problems getting my R1 to turn in ever since I put a 200/55 tire on. It handled perfectly when I had a 190 on it.

I'm going to measure my geometry the best I can this weekend and I'll report back. At least then I can start trying stuff and just go with what feels good. I do know before I added preload the front was so unstable, bad headshake out of every corner exit when on the gas hard and it would wobble down the straights at high speed.

[Kangaroo]

try going back to a 190/55? The 200/50 is a tall tire.

[Kangaroo]

Originally Posted by LudjakR1

I think i will go with race tech springs and race tech shock spring 1.0kg. Do you guys think that will be ok for my riding level once tuned?

simple but good upgrade for your weight.

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by Kangaroo

try going back to a 190/55? The 200/50 is a tall tire.

Or raise the rear and front. Been seeing a lot of this since the tires have gotten bigger again. There is a gain of a few mm in ride height at the rear. This flattens the swingarm and changes the turning characteristics. Raising the rear alone will help some, but it will leave the front steeper than needed. So many people are having fork extensions put on and increasing the front to match the rear. There will be a minor increase in trail, but you'll have a better chance of recovering the geometry and getting the bike steering again.

[Kangaroo]

Some people, like Jason, like a steep (AKA nervous, shakey) front end. Get it wrong and you'll be high-sided into next week.

Weird to hear that the front is nervous but the bike doesn't want to turn. Exactly what Dan is saying about flattened swingarm angle. Mine is the cheapest solution over buying fork extensions and shock shims.

[Meister37]

Originally Posted by DanQ

Or raise the rear and front. Been seeing a lot of this since the tires have gotten bigger again. There is a gain of a few mm in ride height at the rear. This flattens the swingarm and changes the turning characteristics. Raising the rear alone will help some, but it will leave the front steeper than needed. So many people are having fork extensions put on and increasing the front to match the rear. There will be a minor increase in trail, but you'll have a better chance of recovering the geometry and getting the bike steering again.

Not to mention weight distribution when you add distance from the front axle to the balance point. Some bikes will really feel sluggish when you do so.

What exact tires did you change to and from what?

Jittery front that doesn't turn sounds like too much rake and/or compression or spring, causing a pogo issue. I could be wrong, but the bike won't turn and will feel jittery if you're packing the front with a steep angle of rake. Adding trail to the mess would (IMO) only cause the front to get a little more vague and possibly less traction, more input strength needed as well.

It really sounds like a few issues, not just one. Weight distribution, rake angle, trail and spring/dampening are all changed when you put a 200 series on the bike. Heck, just changing manufacturers can cause issues, let alone sizes.

[black89]

Originally Posted by Kangaroo

Some people, like Jason, like a steep (AKA nervous, shakey) front end. Get it wrong and you'll be high-sided into next week.

Weird to hear that the front is nervous but the bike doesn't want to turn. Exactly what Dan is saying about flattened swingarm angle. Mine is the cheapest solution over buying fork extensions and shock shims.

yes it is tall the 200/55 is 656mm tall and I am on a US front because they were out of the UK fronts and the US fronts are 1mm shorter, 604 vs 605 so that might be compounding the problem.

I should have been more detailed when I said hard to turn, better explanation is that the bike "collapses" mid corner, I can't lean it over very far without having to hold it up.

I think I would like to try raising the front, where do you guys get fork extenders from? I really like the side grip of the 200/55, I like the life I get out of them even more.

Edit: I have Ohlins springs for my weight and a racetech rear, GMD did the work for me and I change the oil every 5-6 weekends.

[Meister37]

Originally Posted by black89

yes it is tall the 200/55 is 656mm tall and I am on a US front because they were out of the UK fronts and the US fronts are 1mm shorter, 604 vs 605 so that might be compounding the problem.

I should have been more detailed when I said hard to turn, better explanation is that the bike "collapses" mid corner, I can't lean it over very far without having to hold it up.

I think I would like to try raising the front, where do you guys get fork extenders from? I really like the side grip of the 200/55, I like the life I get out of them even more.

Edit: I have Ohlins springs for my weight and a racetech rear, GMD did the work for me and I change the oil every 5-6 weekends.

Lifting the front will cure most of the issue, you may lose a little grip and feel when you move the axle away from the balance point, taking a little weight off the tire and adding trail.

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by Meister37

Not to mention weight distribution when you add distance from the front axle to the balance point. Some bikes will really feel sluggish when you do so.

What exact tires did you change to and from what?

Jittery front that doesn't turn sounds like too much rake and/or compression or spring, causing a pogo issue. I could be wrong, but the bike won't turn and will feel jittery if you're packing the front with a steep angle of rake. Adding trail to the mess would (IMO) only cause the front to get a little more vague and possibly less traction, more input strength needed as well.

It really sounds like a few issues, not just one. Weight distribution, rake angle, trail and spring/dampening are all changed when you put a 200 series on the bike. Heck, just changing manufacturers can cause issues, let alone sizes.

I haven't personally changed tires or sizes in a while, but I see a bunch of bikes each year where folks are trying out everything and I have to try to settle the demons. It's fun.

I've almost completely secured an opportunity where we can converse with an expert that I frequently converse with on chassis matters. We are discussing the agenda and a few details, but I promise it's going to be a lot of fun (you probably know who I'm talking about). I'm waiting to hear back from him and then I'll put up a thread on the topic and link it here. It's going to be a live/webcast deal where we can communicate with him, gain some information and then have question and answer time with him over the next few months specifically on the R1 (or R6 at a different time).

Stay subscribed... I'll link it here. I'm really excited about this opportunity.

[Meister37]

Nice Dan!

[BSR-1]

Originally Posted by DanQ

I haven't personally changed tires or sizes in a while, but I see a bunch of bikes each year where folks are trying out everything and I have to try to settle the demons. It's fun.

I've almost completely secured an opportunity where we can converse with an expert that I frequently converse with on chassis matters. We are discussing the agenda and a few details, but I promise it's going to be a lot of fun (you probably know who I'm talking about). I'm waiting to hear back from him and then I'll put up a thread on the topic and link it here. It's going to be a live/webcast deal where we can communicate with him, gain some information and then have question and answer time with him over the next few months specifically on the R1 (or R6 at a different time).

Stay subscribed... I'll link it here. I'm really excited about this opportunity.

Well that's going the extra mile! I'm sure he has a million people that would like his time, thanks for your efforts!

[DanQ]

Here we go folks, please look into this.

The R1-Forum Presents Dave Moss.

[greenstreak9205]

So I've got a couple questions


I ride an 09 r1 and it's still rockin untouched forks and shock...w/19k miles I guess I'll finally do myself a service and addres that issue I started doing track days last year (did 3 days) and kinda got hooked. I managed to squeeze in 13 this year and have picked up the pace quite a bit. As I've picked up the pace, and consequently stacked on the miles, I found the limits I have with the stock set-up. I figure since I've got to at least rebuild the suspension, I might as well upgrade it some. Looking for a low-buck track orientated set up. I dont want it to break the bank like full Ohlins would. I run OK "A" times in the orgs I run. Last 2 events I ran were Nola and Barber this year with fastest/avg times of 1:51/1:53 & 1:31/1:33, respectively, just to give an idea of pace. I weigh about 155-160 w/out gear. Again, I don't have a ton to spend but kno I'd benifit from some simple well thought out parts. It's either that or just replace seals and oil



Thoughts or ideas

[DanQ]

Originally Posted by greenstreak9205

So I've got a couple questions


I ride an 09 r1 and it's still rockin untouched forks and shock...w/19k miles I guess I'll finally do myself a service and addres that issue I started doing track days last year (did 3 days) and kinda got hooked. I managed to squeeze in 13 this year and have picked up the pace quite a bit. As I've picked up the pace, and consequently stacked on the miles, I found the limits I have with the stock set-up. I figure since I've got to at least rebuild the suspension, I might as well upgrade it some. Looking for a low-buck track orientated set up. I dont want it to break the bank like full Ohlins would. I run OK "A" times in the orgs I run. Last 2 events I ran were Nola and Barber this year with fastest/avg times of 1:51/1:53 & 1:31/1:33, respectively, just to give an idea of pace. I weigh about 155-160 w/out gear. Again, I don't have a ton to spend but kno I'd benifit from some simple well thought out parts. It's either that or just replace seals and oil



Thoughts or ideas

What is the bike not doing well for you? Your weight is in a range that the bike should work decent for. So it's mostly dictated by sag and what the bike is doing. But since you need new fluids etc, you may as well look at what else can be done while the labor is being performed.

So, what are your sag numbers?

What are your dampers set at? Are you in the middle of the range?

[TheForumGay]

Originally Posted by greenstreak9205

So I've got a couple questions


I ride an 09 r1 and it's still rockin untouched forks and shock...w/19k miles I guess I'll finally do myself a service and addres that issue I started doing track days last year (did 3 days) and kinda got hooked. I managed to squeeze in 13 this year and have picked up the pace quite a bit. As I've picked up the pace, and consequently stacked on the miles, I found the limits I have with the stock set-up. I figure since I've got to at least rebuild the suspension, I might as well upgrade it some. Looking for a low-buck track orientated set up. I dont want it to break the bank like full Ohlins would. I run OK "A" times in the orgs I run. Last 2 events I ran were Nola and Barber this year with fastest/avg times of 1:51/1:53 & 1:31/1:33, respectively, just to give an idea of pace. I weigh about 155-160 w/out gear. Again, I don't have a ton to spend but kno I'd benifit from some simple well thought out parts. It's either that or just replace seals and oil



Thoughts or ideas

Actually going through this exact issue right now. Ive got the same basic setup, stock suspension with 27k miles. Started doing track days (6 this year) and after talking to Dan for an hour on the phone, we decided to do a freshen up on the suspension. The bike still sags correctly, so Dan felt some fresh oil and seals/bushings/ rear shock service would suffice until consistency comes into play.

You may be slightly more advanced than me PJ, but I think the best bang for the buck would be see if the suspension sags correctly for you, have a regualr refresh on everything done (extremely reasonably priced, I won't give anything out, but it's cheap) and do another season until you override the limits of the suspension.

This was Dans suggestion to me

[greenstreak9205]

I'll have to recheck the numbers, but I had Meister set it all up for me earlier this year. As for what it isn't doing...it bottoms out periodically. Under hard breaking it dives pretty hard starts to compromise some stability when it bottoms. I've upped the compression a bit, but I honestly can't recall how many clicks in or out I am. Another issue I'm having is I can't seem to get it to hook up coming out of a corner very well. That I'm sure is just a set-up concern. Last problem I'm having, whick I'm almost positive is a set up issue, is I can't seem to get it to turn in very well


Edited to add; it likes to skip across mid corner bumps and gets unsettled. But idk if that's something you can really "fix"