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Old 11-30-2012, 04:53 PM   #81
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:24 PM   #82
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Haha, upgrade your membership and see the rest(along with some others) in the VIP section.
How did I know you were going to go there?! Ha ha ha
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:11 PM   #83
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FNG/"resume"/bump

bumpity BAMP.

FNG here. aaaand i'm the guy who will be making sparks and building the motor on big man's bike.

honored and feelin priveleged as hell to be a part of the build.

as far as a bit on me, ex electrical engineer specializing in controls and automation, now welder, fabricator and machinist for a local shop here in wilmington, Nc mainly catering to GE Nuclear. co-owned a bike shop and BMW speed shop in maryland for 5 years, and specialized in turbo applications and application engineering.. had a ton of fun doing it.

in the spring and fall, i hit the road for steam turbine service, which brings me to another part of this story..

sadly, i hit the road for kentucky april 1st and will be there 5 weeks. i will be balls deep in the bike directly on my return to Nc, however, so prepare for pic overload. keep the lotion handy because yous are gonna fap to this shit when it's done.

a lil hint of the weld magic and a personal project..




roll cage welding for the boss's 76 bronco




oyster crane, all 316 stainless. 1000lb capacity







aaand here is a recent stunter repair.. did another baller status frame repair to a 636, but i don't know wtmf happened to the pics.


.500" 6061











aaaaand a lil hint of some of my own shit brewing.. turbo/ EFI ZX7R.
parts list includes wossner gas-ported pistons, carillo H beams, magical head work, APE adj cam gears, megasquirt MS3x EFI, modified F4i TBs and.. well, a ton of other shit. ohh and the best part, a heavily ported/polished TB22 garrett, flowrate at redline come out to about 403 CFM at 90%VE, and on that turbo, lands dead-denter of the peak efficiency island at 13.6psi and a PR of about 2.0 ish. should be fun.. going for 250-300hp, and building for about 400ish.





heavily modded F4i TBs.. ported .180" and polished like a mufukka.





but ya.. thats my sort of resume for yas.. being i am some random tool who just shows up out of nowhere and bumps a thread and i am a complete and utter nobody here.. lol

so.. now ya know. i am lookin forward to the build!! otta be pretty fuggin sexy. i keep tryin to talk him into boost as well here and there.. lol
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Old 03-23-2013, 08:45 AM   #84
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bumpity BAMP.

FNG here. aaaand i'm the guy who will be making sparks and building the motor on big man's bike.

honored and feelin priveleged as hell to be a part of the build.

as far as a bit on me, ex electrical engineer specializing in controls and automation, now welder, fabricator and machinist for a local shop here in wilmington, Nc mainly catering to GE Nuclear. co-owned a bike shop and BMW speed shop in maryland for 5 years, and specialized in turbo applications and application engineering.. had a ton of fun doing it.

in the spring and fall, i hit the road for steam turbine service, which brings me to another part of this story..

sadly, i hit the road for kentucky april 1st and will be there 5 weeks. i will be balls deep in the bike directly on my return to Nc, however, so prepare for pic overload. keep the lotion handy because yous are gonna fap to this shit when it's done.

a lil hint of the weld magic and a personal project..
What's up brotha??? Glad you gave yourself the proper introduction. And for everyone here on the forum, I second EVERYTHING he just said. Dude does CRAZYYY work.

But let me hop off of here, I'm packing her up and heading your way soon man!
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:01 AM   #85
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fuggin excited yo. can't wait to see everything when its done!
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Old 03-23-2013, 10:02 AM   #86
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I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!!!! Hell yes, welcome aboard and I'm very excited to see what you've got in store with all of your projects good Sir!
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:12 AM   #87
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I APPROVE OF THIS MESSAGE!!!! Hell yes, welcome aboard and I'm very excited to see what you've got in store with all of your projects good Sir!


thank ya sir!! wish i wasn't in the middle of 95,000 other things. i JUST moved.. hell i haven't been in this house 24 hours yet, so between moving, a cluster**** of a motor build i "inherited" from a local shop that closed down ( where many things were lost or damaged and i had to figure out how to fix) another dirtbike build from out of state, leaving for kentucky in a week and just being run ragged with things.. i'd love nothing more than to get on it today and kill some of this anticipation we all have! lol i think i can at least get it tacked together before i hit the road, at least. that is my goal.

as stated, i don't have any yamaha bikes. only yamaha thing i own is an acoustic guitar.. had a 112L electric but it got stolen may years ago ( replacing that is a 1570 ibanez and an epiphone special II.. i loves me some shred metal) i def look forward to tickling the throttle on homey's bike because the crossplane motors make me wet.

i tech for Team Pro-Motion, and the last time i was at the track there was a lil group of guys on 09+ R1s and.. well, that was probably the best sounding track weekend EVER. lol next to my carbon fiber days in LeMans when i worked on racecars, the R1s make any track experience that much more panty-moistening. def plan on snagging an 09ish motor, tossing some boost on it and shoving it in a suzkui samurai or somethin. lol
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:36 PM   #88
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What's up brotha??? Glad you gave yourself the proper introduction. And for everyone here on the forum, I second EVERYTHING he just said. Dude does CRAZYYY work.

But let me hop off of here, I'm packing her up and heading your way soon man!
Hey brotha, how's the build coming along??

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thank ya sir!! wish i wasn't in the middle of 95,000 other things. i JUST moved.. hell i haven't been in this house 24 hours yet, so between moving, a cluster**** of a motor build i "inherited" from a local shop that closed down ( where many things were lost or damaged and i had to figure out how to fix) another dirtbike build from out of state, leaving for kentucky in a week and just being run ragged with things.. i'd love nothing more than to get on it today and kill some of this anticipation we all have! lol i think i can at least get it tacked together before i hit the road, at least. that is my goal.

as stated, i don't have any yamaha bikes. only yamaha thing i own is an acoustic guitar.. had a 112L electric but it got stolen may years ago ( replacing that is a 1570 ibanez and an epiphone special II.. i loves me some shred metal) i def look forward to tickling the throttle on homey's bike because the crossplane motors make me wet.

i tech for Team Pro-Motion, and the last time i was at the track there was a lil group of guys on 09+ R1s and.. well, that was probably the best sounding track weekend EVER. lol next to my carbon fiber days in LeMans when i worked on racecars, the R1s make any track experience that much more panty-moistening. def plan on snagging an 09ish motor, tossing some boost on it and shoving it in a suzkui samurai or somethin. lol
It's all good my man, the motor showed a pic of where you mentioned ZX-7R caught my eye. I've got a soft spot for those bikes as they were one of the first things I really fell in love with! What are the long term plans with that little beast?!?!
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Old 03-23-2013, 09:57 PM   #89
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Hey brotha, how's the build coming along??



It's all good my man, the motor showed a pic of where you mentioned ZX-7R caught my eye. I've got a soft spot for those bikes as they were one of the first things I really fell in love with! What are the long term plans with that little beast?!?!

the green 99 has an APE knife-edged crank and polished cosworth pistons. right now has APE cam gears and a +4 rotor, but i am going to go to microsquirt on it and basically set the bike up for track use and some street use. i HAD a bitchin set of factory pro cam gears, but they got THROWN AWAY. DEF not due to my own stupidity. but it'll probably get some magic head work ( most likely epoxy to close ACSA to 60%).. also going to affix a nice steering stabilizer from an older 7 to it. it'll run the same modded F4i TBs in the pic above. those are widened between 2 and 3 about .490" and opened .180". i have yet to flowrate them or the injectors.
i have a dedicated 89 VTR250 racebike which is amazing. lol i will always track it more than anything, but the 7 will probably get toted to the track beside the VTR just to mix things up. VTR has probably 15K in it! kosman rims, 3 motors and just a bunch of shit.. very cool little bike.


as far as the blue turblow bike, it will be mostly land-speed. all i want is like, 210 out of it. "it takes 200 to GO 200" so if i am making a solid 250-300hp, i shoulddddd theoretically ( depending on wind, gearing, and track length) get about 220ish or so out of the bike.
mods as stated will also be EFI on a megasquirt MS3x ( x denote data logging) with fully sequential fuel and spark, secondary injectors in a custom airbox mated to a lay-down 2G DSM side mount intercooler, garrett TB22 (.48 compressor, .63 turbine A/R, but will eventually get swapped for a disco potato), carillo h-beams, wossner gas-ported pistons and low-tension rings, a BUNCH of my magic case modes, and most likely some trans work to keep it from dispatching clutch and gear parts at full boost. i plan on running staged boost per gear so i will start with a low pressure and each gear will step boost up, essentially acting as traction control. it'll see occasional street use as well.




OK!! lets get to some business regarding the bike! lol (tryin not to derail!)

we talked about MMmmmmmbooooooost today!! my fav subject.
MANY many many people talk a LOT of shit about turbos and think they can get away with slapping a snail on stuff and just make majikal horepowurz, but there IS engineering behind it! i shall show you a bit of the magic.

now, this is NOT confirmed.. the motor may stay NA, but for now, we'll crunch some numbers and size a turbo for the application. i suspected from day 1 the crossplane motor would love the hell out of boost since the firing order permits smooth exhaust pulse flow.

alright.,. the first step is finding flowrate.
flowrate in CFM.. as we will use that same number to find the correct compressor size.
CFM= (cid x max rpm x .5 x VE) / 1728
( there is a variant of this using VE AND density ratio, but for simplicity, i will leave it out)

cid is displacement, max rpm is just that (redline), .5 is just a constant. use 1.0 for 2 stroke, .5 for 4 stroke, VE is volumetric efficiency ( in percentage) and 1728 is the amount of cubic inches in a cubic foot.

ok.. being theres 0.0610 CC in a Cu, just multiply.. rounding up to 1000, we get 61.023 CI.

for VE, we will use 90% which is just a relatively decent number. back in the day, 80-85% was the magic number for a standard motor, and mid 90s is race-spec, but with the advancements in port harmonics and tuning with pressure waves, it IS entirely possible to see VEs of 125%. you figure, F1 motors spin to 20,000 rpm. the cams spin at 50% so the valves open 10,000 times a minute.. air hates that shit so the valves pretty much float and never close, and port harmonics takes over.
anyway yeah.. 90% expressed as .9

max rpm is 13750.. so, its that simple. plug dem numbaz in yo!

so (61 x 13750 x .5 x.9) / 1728 = 218.42 CFM

now, depending on the application we can move around this number to compensate for mods , but again, for simplicity, we'll just keep shit simple.

now that we have that, we figure what a reasonable HP goal is, and what mods will be made to comp for that power. in this case, the motor would remain stock and boost low, so we will use 8-10 psi as a range.. we'll just stick with 8 assuming a 10-11psi spike on boost at top spool speeds.

with that boost, we figure whats called pressure ratio. that is used for figuring the compressor flowrate and where you're at on it's map. theres a post called the peak efficiency island that you really want to stick in on or around. its bad drifting to the left to whats called a surge line. ported compressor shrouds get rid of some comp surge, but in general, stay the hell away from the surge line. it overspeeds the wheels as well which kills bearings.

ok PR = (14.7 + boost) / 14.7

(14.7 + 8) / 14.7 = 1.59... i will call it 1.6

so with a flowrate of 218 cfm and a pr of 1.6 @ 8psi, NOW we can apply it to a compressor map. you kinda need a general feel of what turbo will work so you can nail it quickly, but it's not necessary to know what frame series you should start off with. you'll find it eventually.
overall rated crank HP is about 180hp.. with 8 psi we can expect a reasonable 15-20 hp with a good tune. 15psi "doubles your displacement" on paper, so i honestly just derive a basic number and water it down a touch to get a general number.

as a note, some times comp maps are noted out in pounds per minute instead of CFM.. 1lb/min = 14.472 cfm.. so in this case, divide 218 by 14.47 and we get 15.06 lb/min

now, being i am tired and kinda wanna stop typing since i have a massive headache, i skipped to a turbo i know will work, but YOU can still apply the general rules of sizing since i've outlined them. turbo by garrett has some nifty shit on their site to help cut some of the riff raff and time out of selecting the correct snail, but to go to my talking about MY project bike making 250-300hp, and wanting to run a "disco potato" (GT2860RS) that tells ya that THAT turbo's general flowrate meets or exceeds the flowrate of the motor at that power output. within reason, you can go up or down a bit in flowrates, but you REALLY need to stick closely to trying to the right numbers.

anyway, so right off the bat, i am guessing a GT2860 is about the right size. garrett says its rated for 150-310hp and motors from 1.8-3L. now, being the R1 spins as fast as it does, we can assume then that the flowrate of a smaller motor at a higher rpm is equivalent to a bigger motor spinning slower. HP is the same either way, and all the other numbers ( flowrate, BSFC and such) is relatively close.

ok.. having the garrett site pulled up, with your numbers, go to a general turbo and pull up the "performance map" which is the comp and turbine flowtrate mapping we're crunching numbers for in the first place.

now, looking at this map ryyy churrr we can start to see wtf those numbers do.
the numbers to the far right are wheel speeds. thats the reason turbos whistle.. the tips of the blades are breaking the sound barrier when you're spooling that bitch up. the horizontal lines at those wheel speeds sectionalize the speeds per flowrate and PR.. you can see how they ALL rise approaching that deadly surge line to the far left.
the small percentages are the efficiencies for that flow quandrant. whatever circle that number resides in, that WHOLE ass circle is that efficiency.
the trim denotes a ratio between the smaller section of the turbine or compressor wheel to the bigger section. the smaller section is the inducer ( on the comp wheel) where the air enters. the air comes out of the larger exducer section.
trim= (inducer/exducer) x 100




now using the 15.06 from earlier and the 1.6 PR all we do is plot the graph.

well, looknig at the map and charting out the PR in respect to the flowrate, we land just east of the PEI, but we're still VERY close to it.. honestly, close enough for a street application at low boost. so this guess was relatively good! ( well, educated, but when you do this a few times you get a feel for what works and what doesn't)

sure we can tweak and perfect and get DEAD center on the PEI by juggling numbers that can still work, or by juggling housing styles. if the A/R of the compressor is too small, the flowrate of your application will grossly exceed the max airflow of the turbo and you risk damaging it. conversely if you're too far away in flowrates and the turbo is HUGE, two things happen, A, you put yourself outside the PEI so far that the compressor can't even really make any good airflow, and B the turbine is usually appropriately sized and will be toooooo big for the exhaust flowrate. moving UP in the A/R on a turbine makes it spool later, so a land speed bike would be a good application as you'll be at WOT for long periods of time.. at bonneville, sometimes 70 seconds at a clip. a smaller AR spools fast and is good for street and drag applications. twin turbos can net better lag times with staggered numbers, but THAT in itself is a big damn post on the variants of twin arrays. moving up on the compressor AR grants more air. smaller is less air, but you can choke off the motor for air and risk comp surge and overspeed and lean the motor out as well killing more shit. smaller ARs will be good for low-revving applications where you're not in the top end of the revs.. something like some road racing on tight ass tracks would be apropos.

A/R is a ratio of the center of the outlet to the center of the housing, called the scroll. if you peeled open a turbo, the whole thing looks like an ice cream cone. the small point is the beginning of the scroll and the big end is the outlet (or inlet on the hot side) and the A/R tells you the general size of the actual scroll size.

uhh.. i am kinda losing my train here with a headache and fatigue, but you get the general scoop. you CAN'T just toss a snail on a motor and make it work. you can hope.. thats about it.

Last edited by whitehendrix; 03-23-2013 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 03-24-2013, 07:34 AM   #90
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WOW! That's pretty much the best explanation of turbo applications I've ever had someone take the time to explain.
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Old 03-24-2013, 11:58 AM   #91
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Hey brotha, how's the build coming along??
We're getting there man! Now that I've got everything out of my shop, I can tidy up a little bit so that the newly welded baby has a nice clean stable to come home to.

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WOW! That's pretty much the best explanation of turbo applications I've ever had someone take the time to explain.
Yea, he successfully supported my comment of "Dude does CRAZYYY work."
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:04 PM   #92
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Old 03-24-2013, 12:13 PM   #93
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:21 PM   #94
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We're getting there man! Now that I've got everything out of my shop, I can tidy up a little bit so that the newly welded baby has a nice clean stable to come home to.
Cool man, really looking forward to what's coming next. I LOVE the fact you're doing something so unique and nice looking with that rear end.
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Old 03-24-2013, 01:31 PM   #95
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Cool man, really looking forward to what's coming next. I LOVE the fact you're doing something so unique and nice looking with that rear end.
Thank you sir. Just trying to be "different" haha.


Btw, here's an update of her all loaded up. Not that it shows much, but I feel like I need to post what little progress I am making.

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Old 03-24-2013, 01:47 PM   #96
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WOW! That's pretty much the best explanation of turbo applications I've ever had someone take the time to explain.

Einstein basically once said if you can't explain it in depth and in a fashion thats understandable, you don't understand it yourself! lol

i will admit theres still PLENTY i do not know about the engineering aspect of it, but i like to think i can hold my own. i like explaining black arts when possible.. turbos are witchcraft.



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Thank you sir. Just trying to be "different" haha.


Btw, here's an update of her all loaded up. Not that it shows much, but I feel like I need to post what little progress I am making.

awww gyeahhhh booyyeee
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:02 PM   #97
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Nice, you anywhere close to starting on assembly?

I hear what you're saying hendrix, explaination was very good.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:05 PM   #98
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Nice, you anywhere close to starting on assembly?

I hear what you're saying hendrix, explaination was very good.
whitehendrix now has the pieces for welding. He'll be gone to Kentucky starting April 1st for 5 weeks, but as soon as he gets back, he'll hop on the welding. More details about all this are in whitehendrix's introduction post in the thread.
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #99
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whitehendrix now has the pieces for welding. He'll be gone to Kentucky starting April 1st for 5 weeks, but as soon as he gets back, he'll hop on the welding. More details about all this are in whitehendrix's introduction post in the thread.
That sucks he's going to be outta town for 5 weeks, but I'll be excited as hell to see the updates once he's back and banging shit out!
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Old 03-24-2013, 02:38 PM   #100
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i simply can't pass up $38/hr + ot for 5 weeks though! lol the machine shop has been absolutely DEAD so i haven't worked at all this past week, which sucks. i am going to start piecing things together tonight with the potential of some tacks being made. i have a feeling i will have to box the arm into the the hinge part with some plate to give it rigidity, but once i get things tacked up, i can tell for sure then where i can gusset and where i can enclose. thinkin internal gussets to kill torsional stresses and box THEM in so A its pretty and B its even stronger.

i got some shit planned. lol
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