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Old 12-03-2012, 08:13 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by drjak View Post
You know what? The Bush tax cuts were never funded in the first place. I'm so tired of hearing whiny, bitchy, sore loser, Republicans, bitch and moan about this increase for $250k + folks that I'd just rather see the Bush tax cuts eradicated altogether. They were never funded in the first place and were signed into law WITH a shelf life. They were never supposed to be indefinite. The big bitch of "tax the rich" is being over-exaggerated anyway. It's going up like what a whopping 3% if it were to happen? Shit, let's start a got damn revolt over a 3% increase and in reality it's not an increase at all. What it is, is their little discount has fvcking expired. Strange how people seem to stay in a bubble and forget the facts. I'd say to those that don't like this "Increase" that you can continue to have your discount when the gov't figures out how to pay for that discount. And since they never figured that out to begin with when Bush signed them into law, for any of the discounts, not just for the 250k and above folks, then they all need to be yanked.

We had debt problems before Obama, and before Bush. We need spending cuts and tax increases, only way it's ever going to go down. Take away the Bush tax cuts altogether and we still pay the least taxes of any westernized country in the world. The wealthy are paying historic lows of Tax % in our country and would continue to be historic lows if their rates were raised for 250k and above. So if the POTUS gets his way and gets this pushed through, those individuals making those sums, and above, would still be paying record lows.

As far as healthcare, I'd definitely like to see the costs come under control. Yet another news story last night on 60 minutes detailed a hospital conglomerate completely fvcking their patients over running up costs, computer systems triggering unnecessary tests and those employees (doctors or administrators) who didn't comply were fired. The medical realm has gotten over the top ridiculous. Just like 20k toilet seats that the gov't pays for, they'll charge you $20 for an aspirin and the like. It's all private sector currently (Romneycare doesn't kick in for a year) so how do you get them to move towards reality? I'm talking costs. How do you do that? For example, I'm paying $500 a month now for it, just for myself, and just got hit with pre existing conditions so I can't see my specialist until May unless I want to pay 100% out of pocket. My pre existing condition is eczema, and it's minor. What if it was cancer, IE something severe? Healthcare costs do need some intervention. I don't think Romneycare is the greatest solution but it sure does eliminate pre existing conditions.

America has become a business in every facet of American life. You wake up in the morning and flip on a light switch, you are paying a corp. Take a shower before work? You are paying the gas corp. or the electricity corp. America is a business today and that is all it is. The sad reality. We aren't a nation of people holding hands, we are all stuck in a business, and it's every man for himself. Any attempt to make things fair, balanced, anything like that, is met with anger and hostility.
1) Bush tax cuts, which are now the Obama tax cuts, can expire...but Obama only wants them to expire for the "rich"....if you want them gone then make them gone for everyone. The lower class gets hit even harder

2) We do not need tax increases....we need spending cuts 1st. If at the end of the day spending cuts don't do it then I think tax increases can be discussed but while we have an overbloated federal govt that has gone so far beyond what they are constitutionally allowed that is

3) Healthcare. How about you get tort reform through. There are reasons test get triggered...its because if johnny comes in and that test isn't run and he dies, the hospital gets sued for millions. They fire them not to make more money, but because they open the hospital to liability. Its about the lawyers. Make it a loser pays system and that gets cleared up. Put limits on the appropriate lawyer fees, etc. Limit the costs there and then you will see costs come down, but right now they are so god damn scared of getting sued this is what we are stuck with.

4) America has always been about business. It is a capitalist society, not a socialist one. There are plenty socialist countries you are welcome to move to though
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:16 AM   #62
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:22 AM   #63
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You know what? The Bush tax cuts were never funded in the first place. I'm so tired of hearing whiny, bitchy, sore loser, Republicans, bitch and moan about this increase for $250k + folks that I'd just rather see the Bush tax cuts eradicated altogether. They were never funded in the first place and were signed into law WITH a shelf life. They were never supposed to be indefinite. The big bitch of "tax the rich" is being over-exaggerated anyway. It's going up like what a whopping 3% if it were to happen? Shit, let's start a got damn revolt over a 3% increase and in reality it's not an increase at all. What it is, is their little discount has fvcking expired. Strange how people seem to stay in a bubble and forget the facts. I'd say to those that don't like this "Increase" that you can continue to have your discount when the gov't figures out how to pay for that discount. And since they never figured that out to begin with when Bush signed them into law, for any of the discounts, not just for the 250k and above folks, then they all need to be yanked.

We had debt problems before Obama, and before Bush. We need spending cuts and tax increases, only way it's ever going to go down. Take away the Bush tax cuts altogether and we still pay the least taxes of any westernized country in the world. The wealthy are paying historic lows of Tax % in our country and would continue to be historic lows if their rates were raised for 250k and above. So if the POTUS gets his way and gets this pushed through, those individuals making those sums, and above, would still be paying record lows.
Good god, who is talking about Bush Tax cuts? Do you have a quick key on your keyboard that just automatically spits out this entire speech in one stroke?


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Originally Posted by drjak View Post

As far as healthcare, I'd definitely like to see the costs come under control. Yet another news story last night on 60 minutes detailed a hospital conglomerate completely fvcking their patients over running up costs, computer systems triggering unnecessary tests and those employees (doctors or administrators) who didn't comply were fired. The medical realm has gotten over the top ridiculous. Just like 20k toilet seats that the gov't pays for, they'll charge you $20 for an aspirin and the like. It's all private sector currently (Romneycare doesn't kick in for a year) so how do you get them to move towards reality? I'm talking costs. How do you do that? For example, I'm paying $500 a month now for it, just for myself, and just got hit with pre existing conditions so I can't see my specialist until May unless I want to pay 100% out of pocket. My pre existing condition is eczema, and it's minor. What if it was cancer, IE something severe? Healthcare costs do need some intervention. I don't think Romneycare is the greatest solution but it sure does eliminate pre existing conditions.

America has become a business in every facet of American life. You wake up in the morning and flip on a light switch, you are paying a corp. Take a shower before work? You are paying the gas corp. or the electricity corp. America is a business today and that is all it is. The sad reality. We aren't a nation of people holding hands, we are all stuck in a business, and it's every man for himself. Any attempt to make things fair, balanced, anything like that, is met with anger and hostility.
holding hands doesn't put food on the table, nor does it pay any bills. Nobody has a problem with trying to make things fair, but you don't do that by arbitrarily taking from somebody to give to somebody else, especially when the guy with it busted his ass and/or took a lot of risk to get it, and the guy without it simply voted for it to happen, but didn't do any work, nor will he do any in the future. At least he has you and Saphexus to keep making excuses for him and blaming everybody else.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:52 AM   #64
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1) Bush tax cuts, which are now the Obama tax cuts, can expire...but Obama only wants them to expire for the "rich"....if you want them gone then make them gone for everyone. The lower class gets hit even harder
Isn't that what I said? Let them expire, all of them. They were never funded and still aren't.

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2) We do not need tax increases....we need spending cuts 1st. If at the end of the day spending cuts don't do it then I think tax increases can be discussed but while we have an overbloated federal govt that has gone so far beyond what they are constitutionally allowed that is
You need both in reality. We are in such debt and have been for decades, that a decrease in spending, as well as eradication of extra cuts (bush tax cuts) need to go.

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3) Healthcare. How about you get tort reform through. There are reasons test get triggered...its because if johnny comes in and that test isn't run and he dies, the hospital gets sued for millions. They fire them not to make more money, but because they open the hospital to liability. Its about the lawyers. Make it a loser pays system and that gets cleared up. Put limits on the appropriate lawyer fees, etc. Limit the costs there and then you will see costs come down, but right now they are so god damn scared of getting sued this is what we are stuck with.
Well I doubt you watched the piece last night. They had software that triggered tests, not the Dr. calling for X test. It was Pro Med (iirc) software that triggered this. More tests = more $ for the hospital. Had fukall to do with necessity. They were investigated for a year.

15 minute segment here.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136261n

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4) America has always been about business. It is a capitalist society, not a socialist one. There are plenty socialist countries you are welcome to move to though
No thanks. And the same old response when these topics are pointed out. I'd say the same thing to Kmac and you, or anyone bitching and moaning about a 250k income tax increase, Romneycare, etc. If you don't like it GTFO then. The world is your oyster.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:55 AM   #65
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You're so sad. I feel so terrible for you. If I had known you were this pathetic, I wouldn't have dignified this terrible thread with any kind of intelligent response.
You do realize majority of the regulars here have college degrees and/or are working professionals with a lot more life experience than you right?

Now, lets hear that intelligent response.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:57 AM   #66
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Good god, who is talking about Bush Tax cuts? Do you have a quick key on your keyboard that just automatically spits out this entire speech in one stroke?
The 250k and above tax increase is in reality, an expiration of the Bush tax cuts on those incomes. Good God man, do you read anything?

And yeah I have a Kmac key on the keyboard. Someone on this forum has to rebuttal your highness.



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holding hands doesn't put food on the table, nor does it pay any bills. Nobody has a problem with trying to make things fair, but you don't do that by arbitrarily taking from somebody to give to somebody else, especially when the guy with it busted his ass and/or took a lot of risk to get it, and the guy without it simply voted for it to happen, but didn't do any work, nor will he do any in the future. At least he has you and Saphexus to keep making excuses for him and blaming everybody else.
I'm not making excuses for anyone. If a 3% increase is going to kill you and take the food out of your baby's mouth then go picket. And if you actually read what I wrote, I say take the Bush tax cuts away altogether, not just for you. They were not funded. That means take it away for you, and the rest of the incomes. It wasn't funded, EVER, so get rid of it, period. When the gubmint can figure out a way to pay for it, then re-enact, until then, tough titties.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:00 AM   #67
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The 250k and above tax increase is in reality, an expiration of the Bush tax cuts on those incomes. Good God man, do you read anything?

And yeah I have a Kmac key on the keyboard. Someone on this forum has to rebuttal your highness.

I'm not making excuses for anyone. If a 3% increase is going to kill you and take the food out of your baby's mouth then go picket. And if you actually read what I wrote, I say take the Bush tax cuts away altogether, not just for you. They were not funded. That means take it away for you, and the rest of the incomes. It wasn't funded, EVER, so get rid of it, period. When the gubmint can figure out a way to pay for it, then re-enact, until then, tough titties.

It isnt our mouths that the food will get taken from. Its the people we lay off to make up the difference that get hurt.

p.s. yet again moron....you dont "fund" any tax cut because the money is not the governments to start with
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:24 AM   #68
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My point is if a person dont agree with whats going on in their state, they have the freedom to do something about it, instead of living in a liberal place.
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Okay, but there are a LOT of people who don't have that option!!! The poor and hopeless middle-class don't have the option!!! You guys aren't getting that. So many people here in California don't have a way to get out of the state. I would love to move somewhere nicer. Can I? F*CK no. Life sucks, and then you die.

I swear to god though, I will be leaving this hell hole as soon as I get done with college...
Everyone thinks Saph sould leave Cali because he is unhappy. I don't understand how that helps.

Let's give Saph the benefit of the doubt here that he doesn't like how things are going in his state, so why should he leave? Shouldn't he stay in Cali to try and "rally the troops" or try to affect a change that makes things improve? If he truly dislikes how Cali is operating, how does that help Cali ever change when he moves elsewhere that better fits him?

Whatever you do, don't move to Texas though(not that I think you will, but...) - we're full.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:28 AM   #69
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Isn't that what I said? Let them expire, all of them. They were never funded and still aren't.
That's not even on the table though for the Dems....if you recall the republicans were willing to do just that the last time, but then the media said they were holding the poor hostage


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You need both in reality. We are in such debt and have been for decades, that a decrease in spending, as well as eradication of extra cuts (bush tax cuts) need to go.
No you don't...why was Ron Paul able to balance the budget with his plan that he released in 4 years without a tax increase then??

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Originally Posted by drjak View Post

Well I doubt you watched the piece last night. They had software that triggered tests, not the Dr. calling for X test. It was Pro Med (iirc) software that triggered this. More tests = more $ for the hospital. Had fukall to do with necessity. They were investigated for a year.

15 minute segment here.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50136261n
Not only did I watch the thing...I actually have worked in the healthcare sector..but I'm sure you know more


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No thanks. And the same old response when these topics are pointed out. I'd say the same thing to Kmac and you, or anyone bitching and moaning about a 250k income tax increase, Romneycare, etc. If you don't like it GTFO then. The world is your oyster.
1) If the rich leave, who is going to pay for cell phones for the poor?
2) Why should anyone have to GTFO of a country for wanting to live the way the consitution states. It is those that want to change to a socialist country that need to go elsewhere. A country founded on socialism that wants socialism.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:28 AM   #70
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Everyone thinks Saph sould leave Cali because he is unhappy. I don't understand how that helps.

Let's give Saph the benefit of the doubt here that he doesn't like how things are going in his state, so why should he leave? Shouldn't he stay in Cali to try and "rally the troops" or try to affect a change that makes things improve? If he truly dislikes how Cali is operating, how does that help Cali ever change when he moves elsewhere that better fits him?

Whatever you do, don't move to Texas though(not that I think you will, but...) - we're full.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:37 AM   #71
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It isnt our mouths that the food will get taken from. Its the people we lay off to make up the difference that get hurt.

p.s. yet again moron....you dont "fund" any tax cut because the money is not the governments to start with
You don't agree so you have to start name calling? Don't expect me to act civil then when you start that shit. And by the way Fvck you

You know little about taxes then. If the big bad ass gubmint wants to offer people bigger discounts in the form of taxes then an offset must occur at the same time. A balance must be struck. Funny how you guys bitch and moan about social programs when those Bush tax cuts were the exact same thing, free money being handed out only in the form of a tax cut instead of a card to buy groceries or a free phone. If you want to hand out money then you have to "Fund" that with an offset on the balance sheet. This never occurred and we really never had an offset for those cuts. But I guess those facts don't make it to you in your bubble. Facts and reasoning have a hard time finding their way in.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:40 AM   #72
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You don't agree so you have to start name calling? Don't expect me to act civil then when you start that shit. And by the way Fvck you

You know little about taxes then. If the big bad ass gubmint wants to offer people bigger discounts in the form of taxes then an offset must occur at the same time. A balance must be struck. Funny how you guys bitch and moan about social programs when those Bush tax cuts were the exact same thing, free money being handed out only in the form of a tax cut instead of a card to buy groceries or a free phone. If you want to hand out money then you have to "Fund" that with an offset on the balance sheet. This never occurred and we really never had an offset for those cuts. But I guess those facts don't make it to you in your bubble. Facts and reasoning have a hard time finding their way in.

Its not offering people a discount. It is simply not taking more from people to start with. You live under the conception that my money is the governments to start with.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:40 AM   #73
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You don't agree so you have to start name calling? Don't expect me to act civil then when you start that shit. And by the way Fvck you

You know little about taxes then. If the big bad ass gubmint wants to offer people bigger discounts in the form of taxes then an offset must occur at the same time. A balance must be struck. Funny how you guys bitch and moan about social programs when those Bush tax cuts were the exact same thing, free money being handed out only in the form of a tax cut instead of a card to buy groceries or a free phone. If you want to hand out money then you have to "Fund" that with an offset on the balance sheet. This never occurred and we really never had an offset for those cuts. But I guess those facts don't make it to you in your bubble. Facts and reasoning have a hard time finding their way in.


A tax cut is not welfare.

Let me help you.

Welfare:
Person A give money to the govt which then takes a little and give some to Person B

Tax Cut:
Person A gets to keep his money that he earned


If you don't understand the difference there you are a socialist who thinks all money is the governments to start
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:42 AM   #74
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Everyone thinks Saph sould leave Cali because he is unhappy. I don't understand how that helps.

Let's give Saph the benefit of the doubt here that he doesn't like how things are going in his state, so why should he leave? Shouldn't he stay in Cali to try and "rally the troops" or try to affect a change that makes things improve? If he truly dislikes how Cali is operating, how does that help Cali ever change when he moves elsewhere that better fits him?

Whatever you do, don't move to Texas though(not that I think you will, but...) - we're full.
Actually, by moving out of the state (assuming he isn't a liberal) it would make CA lose tax dollars which would force them to shrink govt. In addition, the electorial votes would be taken from CA and given elsewhere which would effect change
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:42 AM   #75
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And no I'm not moving because the worlds my oyster. I'm just saying fvck it doing it right anymore and have started getting paid strictly in these lil green bitches Cant take these Obama! (Although you can make them worthless with endless printing)

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Old 12-03-2012, 09:43 AM   #76
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And no I'm not moving because the worlds my oyster. I'm just saying fvck it doing it right anymore and have started getting paid strictly in these lil green bitches Cant take these Obama! (Although you can make them worthless with endless printing)
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:52 AM   #77
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Actually, by moving out of the state (assuming he isn't a liberal) it would make CA lose tax dollars which would force them to shrink govt. In addition, the electorial votes would be taken from CA and given elsewhere which would effect change
You're not reading between the lines.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:54 AM   #78
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That's not even on the table though for the Dems....if you recall the republicans were willing to do just that the last time, but then the media said they were holding the poor hostage
Well I'm not interested in the media. IMO we need both, eradication of these never funded tax cuts as well as major cuts in spending across the board. That means defense as well. We can't pay our bills, haven't been able to pay our own bills for decades, and the gig is up.



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No you don't...why was Ron Paul able to balance the budget with his plan that he released in 4 years without a tax increase then??
Did he get elected? I like Ron Paul and wished he'd been invited to debates and been treated as a viable candidate for POTUS but he never was and his running for POTUS in the past or future has no chance without true political reform.

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Not only did I watch the thing...I actually have worked in the healthcare sector..but I'm sure you know more
Then you saw bs software triggering tests and costs that the Dr's did not agree with. If you are going to defend that Pro Med software and call it legit then I'm just going to laugh at you. They've already removed it now and are under investigation. Doctors need to make these decisions not software coded in such a fashion to get more money.

BTW, I actually work in healthcare right now but I'm sure you know more than I do Are we going to get into a HIPAA discussion now?


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1) If the rich leave, who is going to pay for cell phones for the poor?
2) Why should anyone have to GTFO of a country for wanting to live the way the consitution states. It is those that want to change to a socialist country that need to go elsewhere. A country founded on socialism that wants socialism.
Then why did you state it in the first place then? Because some of us want some things to change you stated we should move to socialist countries in Western Europe? I was just giving you back your own advice. If you hate it so much and bitch about it so much the plane and boats are there, buy a ticket. Healthcare reform needs to happen. I don't have all the answers, I just know leaving the costs unchecked we are heading into a massive problem. When people start selling their homes, quit spending money, all to pay for ballooned healthcare costs, what do you think that will do to our economy?

So in summation I've said that we are in massive debt as a country and that we need to remove these tax cuts that weren't thought out too well. That means a bipartisan failure has occurred. Bush shouldn't have signed them in, and Obama and Congress should not have allowed them to continue. I've also said we need healthcare reform in a big way. After stating as much you've deemed my comments "socialism".

This is exactly why there is so much polarization in the country now and why nothing is changing for the better.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:56 AM   #79
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You're not reading between the lines.
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Old 12-03-2012, 09:57 AM   #80
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Its not offering people a discount. It is simply not taking more from people to start with. You live under the conception that my money is the governments to start with.
No I don't. Where did I state as such? I stated that the national budget couldn't be offset for those tax cuts. There was no offset in the budget for them, period.
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