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Old 12-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by z064life View Post


A tax cut is not welfare.

Let me help you.

Welfare:
Person A give money to the govt which then takes a little and give some to Person B

Tax Cut:
Person A gets to keep his money that he earned


If you don't understand the difference there you are a socialist who thinks all money is the governments to start
Let me help you then. Government is in massive debt, borrowing money year after year from the Chinese. So we aren't taking in enough cash to pay for our own bills. While this is going on our big gubmint decides "hey let's cut taxes even if we can't afford it." You are playing semantics, fine. So the reality is for you to get your take break our government borrows more money from the Chinese so you can keep more of your money. Ok, how long do think this type of thing will go on before it slams us all right in the face? Well that is happening right now. Before those Bush tax cuts were enacted, and after, what is the difference in percentage you pay?
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:03 AM   #82
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Well I'm not interested in the media. IMO we need both, eradication of these never funded tax cuts as well as major cuts in spending across the board. That means defense as well. We can't pay our bills, haven't been able to pay our own bills for decades, and the gig is up.
That's what you are not getting...when you say let them expire, that just isn't going to happen across the board


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Did he get elected? I like Ron Paul and wished he'd been invited to debates and been treated as a viable candidate for POTUS but he never was and his running for POTUS in the past or future has no chance without true political reform.
You said you need both tax increases and spending cuts...in reality you don't and Dr. Paul showed us as much. Him being elected has no bearing on the fact that our fiscal house can be in order without tax increases


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Then you saw bs software triggering tests and costs that the Dr's did not agree with. If you are going to defend that Pro Med software and call it legit then I'm just going to laugh at you. They've already removed it now and are under investigation. Doctors need to make these decisions not software coded in such a fashion to get more money.

BTW, I actually work in healthcare right now but I'm sure you know more than I do Are we going to get into a HIPAA discussion now?
Let's wait for the investigation. After the software is taken out then it will just be policy for those tests. We need to reform healthcare and address WHY it is expensive.

1) lawsuits
2) insurance for maintenance
3) Those that can't pay still get treatments which causes those that can and those with insurance to pay for theirs + the guy that didn't pay
4) we need to learn how to die respectfully....end of life care here is rediculous. If it's your own money by all means spend it. If it isn't then die with some respect. 3 months of your life really isn't worth 100k

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Then why did you state it in the first place then? Because some of us want some things to change you stated we should move to socialist countries in Western Europe? I was just giving you back your own advice. If you hate it so much and bitch about it so much the plane and boats are there, buy a ticket. Healthcare reform needs to happen. I don't have all the answers, I just know leaving the costs unchecked we are heading into a massive problem. When people start selling their homes, quit spending money, all to pay for ballooned healthcare costs, what do you think that will do to our economy?

So in summation I've said that we are in massive debt as a country and that we need to remove these tax cuts that weren't thought out too well. That means a bipartisan failure has occurred. Bush shouldn't have signed them in, and Obama and Congress should not have allowed them to continue. I've also said we need healthcare reform in a big way. After stating as much you've deemed my comments "socialism".

This is exactly why there is so much polarization in the country now and why nothing is changing for the better.
Anyone can ask for changes to get us back to the constitution. To take us to a socialist state, while technically you are free to do so, but understand this country was founded on individual exceptionalism...not on group hugs
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:07 AM   #83
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And no I'm not moving because the worlds my oyster. I'm just saying fvck it doing it right anymore and have started getting paid strictly in these lil green bitches Cant take these Obama! (Although you can make them worthless with endless printing)

You know what you should do? Take out your your frustrations in life, with our government, on other citizens that don't agree with you. Insult them, bicker, make yourself look like a child in the process. Oh wait, you are already doing that.

Newsflash genius: It's not going to change anything. You can get mad all you want, whine, moan, and the POTUS is still there, got re-elected. I know that makes your blood boil, but taking it out on me or anyone else on this forum because you don't like what they have to say, or don't agree with them, isn't going to make it any better for you tomorrow. It's just going to make you look like an ass. I don't want your money, and really wish the government would charge you less so you'd be happier but with our debt problem it's not going to happen.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:08 AM   #84
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Funny how you guys bitch and moan about social programs when those Bush tax cuts were the exact same thing, free money being handed out only in the form of a tax cut instead of a card to buy groceries or a free phone. If you want to hand out money then you have to "Fund" that with an offset on the balance sheet.

Thank you for posting this. You have finally removed all doubt.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:11 AM   #85
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Let me help you then. Government is in massive debt, borrowing money year after year from the Chinese. So we aren't taking in enough cash to pay for our own bills. While this is going on our big gubmint decides "hey let's cut taxes even if we can't afford it." You are playing semantics, fine. So the reality is for you to get your take break our government borrows more money from the Chinese so you can keep more of your money. Ok, how long do think this type of thing will go on before it slams us all right in the face? Well that is happening right now. Before those Bush tax cuts were enacted, and after, what is the difference in percentage you pay?
the difference is irrelevant...I'd argue that after I pay for sales tax, income tax, medicare tax, ss tax, state tax, local tax, gas tax, property tax, excise tax..and I'm sure I'm leaving some out. Without any creativity, I'm over 50%...so you are saying that "it's only 3% more"...I'm saying I think since I take the risk and I work, I should be allowed to keep more than the govt takes from me.

And I never said we should keep borrowing...we have a SPENDING problem. Address that before you come asking for even more money
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:12 AM   #86
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Do you honestly believe the democrats would be willing to enact massive spending cuts if the republicans allowed them to return to Clinton era tax rates?

All they are doing is making the republicans look like the people holding things up for the big bad "financial cliff" The republicans in turn will get scared after seeing the liberal media blast them too much and will cave.

The dems will get enuff new funding to run the government for a whole week.(woo hoo) and they will continue to increase spending
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:19 AM   #87
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And I never said we should keep borrowing...we have a SPENDING problem. Address that before you come asking for even more money
You'll notice in the entirety of his diatribe that it's all about paying more taxes (or eliminating tax cuts), but not a SINGLE mention of cutting spending, except for the rhetoric about $20K toilet seats, etc. Didn't hear a single entitlement mentioned, nor pork barrel spending, nor any of the other gov't bottomless pits that we just throw money into for no good reason.

I love to hear him mock the "250K" crowd about not liking it and "GTFO". Their idea of GTFO is going to be layoffs, reduced spending, and reduced benefits to keep their companies viable, and guess who is then going to be in here bitching up another storm.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:25 AM   #88
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That's what you are not getting...when you say let them expire, that just isn't going to happen across the board
I realize that but didn't I say that is what should happen? I got news for you I'm not in Washington making policy. I'm a peanut picker on the sideline watching all of this go down, same as you.



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You said you need both tax increases and spending cuts...in reality you don't and Dr. Paul showed us as much. Him being elected has no bearing on the fact that our fiscal house can be in order without tax increases
Well I respectfully disagree with you. I know that is hard for folks on here to understand that two parties can disagree, respectfully.
I like Ron Paul but I didn't agree with every little thing in his proposal. And I don't have time to sit here and quote and requote you all day and discuss his fiscal plan. Even if I did, at the end of the day what is that going to do anyway? Get you to change your mind on anything? It's not going to happen.

IMO, and that is all it is, is an opinion. We need both. I never recommended a tax increase, only an expiration of some tax cuts that were never supposed to be permanent. I think maybe the FACTS of those cuts are escaping you. They were signed in with a shelf life, not permanent, a temporary thing. If they were signed in as permanent then we would be discussing a pure tax increase across the board. Those cuts were never offset and were not supposed to be permanent. Is that something that you can understand with all the finger pointing?

I think the debt and fiscal mess we are in, is so dire, that we need both. Budgets need to be slashed in Defense, Medicare (can be done with some kind of healthcare reform), entitlements, everything you want done, and at the same time don't go taxing people to death. Just let these temporary cuts that were places as such, expire, as they were intended to do in the first place.




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Let's wait for the investigation. After the software is taken out then it will just be policy for those tests. We need to reform healthcare and address WHY it is expensive.

1) lawsuits
2) insurance for maintenance
3) Those that can't pay still get treatments which causes those that can and those with insurance to pay for theirs + the guy that didn't pay
4) we need to learn how to die respectfully....end of life care here is rediculous. If it's your own money by all means spend it. If it isn't then die with some respect. 3 months of your life really isn't worth 100k
WE also don't need to spend money running tests that don't need to be run. You know how expensive they are to run going by your healthcare experience. Massive money. I agree with your points above though.


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Anyone can ask for changes to get us back to the constitution. To take us to a socialist state, while technically you are free to do so, but understand this country was founded on individual exceptionalism...not on group hugs
Individual exceptionalism gets pretty difficult for many of our constituents when you throw greed in there. The private market isn't the solution for everything. Like many I love the constitution and the ideals it represents but I'm also intelligent enough to know that it was written a long time ago during a different age, a different era and I'd love to have those guys present to see what our nation has become. I'd love their take on corps, their attorneys, them being viewed as people when they aren't held responsible like the constituents are.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:31 AM   #89
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I'd love their take on corps, their attorneys, them being viewed as people when they aren't held responsible like the constituents are.
1) Executives can go to prision for what their companies do.
2) The battle was made because Unions can spend at will...remove them and Republicans will be happy to remove businesses from the donation process as well.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:33 AM   #90
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You'll notice in the entirety of his diatribe that it's all about paying more taxes (or eliminating tax cuts), but not a SINGLE mention of cutting spending, except for the rhetoric about $20K toilet seats, etc. Didn't hear a single entitlement mentioned, nor pork barrel spending, nor any of the other gov't bottomless pits that we just throw money into for no good reason.

I love to hear him mock the "250K" crowd about not liking it and "GTFO". Their idea of GTFO is going to be layoffs, reduced spending, and reduced benefits to keep their companies viable, and guess who is then going to be in here bitching up another storm.
Nice "judgement" and stereotype as usual. You are the fvcking king of type casting here. See the previous post, we need cuts EVERYWHERE. My God man, how many times do I have to say it to you people to get it into your bubble? Everything means entitlement programs as well.

I don't buy those folks getting that whopping 3% laid on them doing all that. Why? Because reducing their tax % was supposed to create jobs and such. Something that never occurred. It's been proved over the last 20-30 years all the way back to the Messiah, Ronald Reagan. It doesn't lead to job growth. All you see when that happens is those folks holding on to their money. They get a tax break and you get a few little crumbs, and that is about it.

Let me repeat it for you again Kirk so it'll get through your bubble. You need spending cuts EVERYWHERE. Defense, Medicare, entitlement budgets ALSO!

I'm going to lunch you boys enjoy.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:38 AM   #91
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1) Executives can go to prision for what their companies do.
Like they did on Wall Street? There is your core for the financial meltdown over the last 4-5 years. Hard for them to prosecute when what they did was legal because restrictions were removed for them to do so. I like little government in many places, such as firearms. But there are other areas I like government watching their asses like hawks stalking prey. Wall Street is a good example, needs many laws/regulations, and they need to be watched closely. I also like government to watch our water supplies to ensure it remains clean, as do I the air I breathe. Unchecked, and unregulated, corps will destroy these things to make profits if they can get away with it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:44 AM   #92
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Let me help you then. Government is in massive debt, borrowing money year after year from the Chinese. So we aren't taking in enough cash to pay for our own bills. While this is going on our big gubmint decides "hey let's cut taxes even if we can't afford it." You are playing semantics, fine. So the reality is for you to get your take break our government borrows more money from the Chinese so you can keep more of your money. Ok, how long do think this type of thing will go on before it slams us all right in the face? Well that is happening right now. Before those Bush tax cuts were enacted, and after, what is the difference in percentage you pay?
Just a quick question here -

So if the US gov't is borrowing more and more money from the Chinese to fund "gov't" programs, would you agree that gov't is mismanaging its own programs?
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Old 12-03-2012, 10:57 AM   #93
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I don't buy those folks getting that whopping 3% laid on them doing all that. Why? Because reducing their tax % was supposed to create jobs and such. Something that never occurred. It's been proved over the last 20-30 years all the way back to the Messiah, Ronald Reagan. It doesn't lead to job growth. All you see when that happens is those folks holding on to their money. They get a tax break and you get a few little crumbs, and that is about it.
besides the fact your wrong because it does promote job creation... what is wrong with them saving it if they want? It is their money
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:41 AM   #94
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besides the fact your wrong because it does promote job creation... what is wrong with them saving it if they want? It is their money
Many of you know which side of the isle i stand on. My profession is politics and business. Let me hit you with reality. Trickle down economy does not work any more; not since greed became more of a civil offense and less criminal. tax credits promotes job creation for the most part, especially amongst smaller busiiness. The big boys like walmart and fast food...lets say theres a reason why the union is active in those industries. Tax credits for them does not promote growth. The very defimition of growth is beneficial to all parties to include stratification within a company. That is not happening. They use tax credits as as capital gains. Their bonus in upper management gets bigger, while that little guy at the bottom hasnt seen a pay increase in 3 years. Doubt me? Look at wallstreet, macdonalds, and walmart.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:45 AM   #95
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Many of you know which side of the isle i stand on. My profession is politics and business. Let me hit you with reality. Trickle down economy does not work any more; not since greed became more of a civil offense and less criminal. tax credits promotes job creation for the most part, especially amongst smaller busiiness. The big boys like walmart and fast food...lets say theres a reason why the union is active in those industries. Tax credits for them does not promote growth. The very defimition of growth is beneficial to all parties to include stratification within a company. That is not happening. They use tax credits as as capital gains. Their bonus in upper management gets bigger, while that little guy at the bottom hasnt seen a pay increase in 3 years. Doubt me? Look at wallstreet, macdonalds, and walmart.
walmart and mcdonalds have no need to increase their salaries...if you haven't noticed unemployement is HIGH and those jobs are unskilled meaning damn near every unemployed person can do it....so why exactly should they pay more when then can maintain wages and still get plenty applicants?
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:52 AM   #96
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Like they did on Wall Street? There is your core for the financial meltdown over the last 4-5 years. Hard for them to prosecute when what they did was legal because restrictions were removed for them to do so. I like little government in many places, such as firearms. But there are other areas I like government watching their asses like hawks stalking prey. Wall Street is a good example, needs many laws/regulations, and they need to be watched closely. I also like government to watch our water supplies to ensure it remains clean, as do I the air I breathe. Unchecked, and unregulated, corps will destroy these things to make profits if they can get away with it.
financial meltdown started with the fking housing bubble brought on by the govt thinking everyone had a right to own a home
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:52 AM   #97
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walmart and mcdonalds have no need to increase their salaries...if you haven't noticed unemployement is HIGH and those jobs are unskilled meaning damn near every unemployed person can do it....so why exactly should they pay more when then can maintain wages and still get plenty applicants?
Definition of greed. I dont want to stray too far off so if anyone wants to talk labor and politics, we'll start our own thread. Im on a plane right now to Denver. jack and coke is kicking in. 4 day conference on uncle sam's dime...love it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:53 AM   #98
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financial meltdown started with the fking housing bubble brought on by the govt thinking everyone had a right to own a home
Definitely agree with you on that one.
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Old 12-03-2012, 11:54 AM   #99
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financial meltdown started with the fking housing bubble brought on by the govt thinking everyone had a right to own a home
Thanks in large part to this fag

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:00 PM   #100
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financial meltdown started with the fking housing bubble brought on by the govt thinking everyone had a right to own a home
That was part of it. But you are leaving a huge side completely out. Wall Street bankers were advising one thing to their clients and betting against their clients in private. They were also using complex derivatives that were nonsense. Dipshits thinking they could afford a pricey home, or those people that thought they were slick and were on their way to financial freedom by buying additional homes to rent turning themselves into real estate tycoons and the fvcking banks who had merged their investment and bankings under one umbrella and made poor bet after poor bet were the side you are leaving out. Wall Street is nothing but a bunch of crooks who'll bankrupt the common American to their financial gain. They are not to be trusted and we've learned to regulate the fvck out of them and never let them out of our sight. At least I hope so. It's legal for me to go out and fvck someone's wife but that doesn't mean I should do it. Same goes for them. Greed trumps morality any day of the week, unfortunately, especially on Wall Street.
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