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Old 12-03-2012, 12:02 PM   #101
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besides the fact your wrong because it does promote job creation... what is wrong with them saving it if they want? It is their money
It doesn't lead to job creation, sorry. It's been well proven and documented, get out of the got damn bubble for once. That or quit listening to hysterical right wing propaganda.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:04 PM   #102
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It doesn't lead to job creation, sorry. It's been well proven and documented, get out of the got damn bubble for once. That or quit listening to hysterical right wing propaganda.
but listen to the liberals in that every dollar spent on unemployement creates 1.70 in the economy? Or that by taking from the top and giving to the bottom this will create jobs or is it just to create dependence?
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:10 PM   #103
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It doesn't lead to job creation, sorry. It's been well proven and documented, get out of the got damn bubble for once. That or quit listening to hysterical right wing propaganda.
Heres the thing... I own multiple businesses. I also employ multiple people. I can assure you that if my taxes are say $40,000 less this year. I can put that money to good use.

You get out of the bubble. I actually employ people. I've offered member's of this forum good paying jobs even. WTF have you done? How many peoples families are counting on your sorry ass? So dont try to tell me I dont know what Im talking about you stupid shit.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:12 PM   #104
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Heres the thing... I own multiple businesses. I also employ multiple people. I can assure you that if my taxes are say $40,000 less this year. I can put that money to good use.

You get out of the bubble. I actually employ people. I've offered member's of this forum good paying jobs even. WTF have you done? How many peoples families are counting on your sorry ass? So dont try to tell me I dont know what Im talking about you stupid shit.
but you expect them to work for that...
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:54 PM   #105
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I have lived in California all my life. I do not agree with socialism but I am not leaving. I own property here and make a good living. The people who are important to me are here and I have made a stable home for my children. I do not support Obama, but I am not leaving the USA either.

California will be an example for the rest of the country. (an example of what not to do.)We have the highest taxes, most people on welfare, fewest big companies, and so on. The country is facing a similar challenge as people are reaching Social Security/Medicare age. Too much money going out and not enough coming in.

It is just not sustainable and cannot go one like this much longer. All I have to do is keep buying guns and ammo and wait. I am prepared for things to get really bad. I may consider buying property in another state in case we have to bug out.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:07 PM   #106
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but listen to the liberals in that every dollar spent on unemployement creates 1.70 in the economy? Or that by taking from the top and giving to the bottom this will create jobs or is it just to create dependence?
I don't listen to them either. Again if you aren't ultra-right-wing you are a liberal? Gets funnier by the minute around here.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:31 PM   #107
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Heres the thing... I own multiple businesses. I also employ multiple people. I can assure you that if my taxes are say $40,000 less this year. I can put that money to good use.

You get out of the bubble. I actually employ people. I've offered member's of this forum good paying jobs even. WTF have you done? How many peoples families are counting on your sorry ass? So dont try to tell me I dont know what Im talking about you stupid shit.
Stupid shit? Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a stupid shit? Moron? socialist? Communist? All I can say to that I'm not going to play your game and start telling you to go fvck yourself or call you an asshole. I'll extend you that courtesy even though you aren't man enough to do the same. I've worked full time since I was 11 years old, put myself through college, 2 degrees, I pay my taxes, I vote, and abide by the law. You don't like that I don't stroke myself and have your exact same opinion on politics then go cry and whine to someone else. The very fact that you can't discuss this without the name calling and polarizing views is exactly why the country is in the state that is in. Nobody respects other people's opinions or views on politics. If they don't agree with me they are communists, socialists, morons, tit suckers, etc, etc, etc. People used to have more respect than that. And that is why your boy lost the election, and why that party lost. There is no meet in the middle, on center, only extreme right wing views, and if you don't agree with me fvck you. And you saw how well that worked out in November.

As far as who is counting on me and you? Did someone put a gun to your head and tell you to do that? You want a cookie for employing people like you are a saint or something? Last time I checked this is a free country so nobody made you do it so don't ask for any sentiment for doing so. I work, people depend on me, actually my work and being cost effective has a direct benefit to folks that have health coverage so my work affects millions of people in the form of subs. I work in a role and do a function but somehow you are better than me? Whatever man.

There is stuff out there called data and research. And we have it. Over the last few years they've dug and dug trying to find the data to support your argument. It doesn't exist. History has proven when tax cuts at the top happen, over the last 30 years, it hasn't led to widespread job growth. What has happened is those folks hold onto their money instead of being these big job creators. The only thing that comes down is crumbs, never a meal. Don't believe me then go look it up yourself. Don't want to go look it up then pound sand. We are at historic lows for tax %'s and you even have people like Warren Buffet stating that rates at the top need to increase but you're on the Grover Norquist deal. Ok, see how well that works out for all of us in the end.

The reality is you aren't getting your way. You didn't get your way with the election and you're damn mad about it. And you are willing to ridicule, insult, and bitch at anyone that doesn't 100% agree with you. See what good that attitude does and what good it will do. I'd start with getting out of the Fox News cycle for one. Break free of both sides and start doing some thinking on your own.

Last edited by drjak; 12-03-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:35 PM   #108
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Actually, by moving out of the state (assuming he isn't a liberal) it would make CA lose tax dollars which would force them to shrink govt. In addition, the electorial votes would be taken from CA and given elsewhere which would effect change
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:36 PM   #109
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Stupid shit? Anyone that doesn't agree with you is a stupid shit? Moron? socialist? Communist? All I can say to that I'm not going to play your game and start telling you to go fvck yourself or call you an asshole. I'll extend you that courtesy even though you aren't man enough to do the same. I've worked full time since I was 11 years old, put myself through college, 2 degrees, I pay my taxes, I vote, and abide by the law. You don't like that I don't stroke myself and have your exact same opinion on politics then go cry and whine to someone else. The very fact that you can't discuss this without the name calling and polarizing views is exactly why the country is in the state that is in. Nobody respects other people's opinions or views on politics. If they don't agree with me they are communists, socialists, morons, tit suckers, etc, etc, etc. People used to have more respect than that. And that is why your boy lost the election, and why that party lost. There is no meet in the middle, on center, only extreme right wing views, and if you don't agree with me fvck you. And you saw how well that worked out in November.

There is stuff out there called data and research. And we have it. Over the last few years they've dug and dug trying to find the data to support your argument. It doesn't exist. History has proven when tax cuts at the top happen, over the last 30 years, it hasn't led to widespread job growth. What has happened is those folks hold onto their money instead of being these big job creators. The only thing that comes down is crumbs, never a meal. Don't believe me then go look it up yourself. Don't want to go look it up then pound sand. We are at historic lows for tax %'s and you even have people like Warren Buffet stating that rates at the top need to increase but you're on the Grover Norquist deal. Ok, see how well that works out for all of us in the end.

The reality is you aren't getting your way. You didn't get your way with the election and you're damn mad about it. And you are willing to ridicule, insult, and bitch at anyone that doesn't 100% agree with you. See what good that attitude does and what good it will do. I'd start with getting out of the Fox News cycle for one. Break free of both sides and start doing some thinking on your own.
I dont have to "look" it up. I am a job creator. I just invested a ton of my own money in another chance venture. I know for a fact that if I get savings on my taxes I utilize it in many different ways that effect my employees and myself.

To the contrary if they start forcing me to provide health care I will be eliminating multiple positions.

The best way to create a good economy is for the government to limit itself to a bare minimum in the every days workings of our lives
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:37 PM   #110
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And no I'm not moving because the worlds my oyster. I'm just saying fvck it doing it right anymore and have started getting paid strictly in these lil green bitches Cant take these Obama! (Although you can make them worthless with endless printing)

no need to try and move if you are making it work to your advantage.

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:43 PM   #111
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Here you go Lobster. A 3 second google search.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-cu...151649273.html

http://www.forbes.com/sites/billharr...t-create-jobs/

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/op...owth.html?_r=0

Sorry none of them are Fox News.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:45 PM   #112
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You can pull all the research in the world up but you still have a bull shit argument. Im telling you that I use the tax dollars I save and put it back into my businesses. Your saying I dont. So who is more qualified to speak on behalf of my finances?
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:59 PM   #113
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You can pull all the research in the world up but you still have a bull shit argument. Im telling you that I use the tax dollars I save and put it back into my businesses. Your saying I dont. So who is more qualified to speak on behalf of my finances?
Your wife.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:07 PM   #114
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Your wife.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:07 PM   #115
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You can pull all the research in the world up but you still have a bull shit argument. Im telling you that I use the tax dollars I save and put it back into my businesses. Your saying I dont. So who is more qualified to speak on behalf of my finances?
You just don't get it. You doesn't mean everyone. You can understand that you are just one man correct?

I'll give you that YOU are gonna do that, doesn't mean, and has been debunked thoroughly, the same is true for EVERYONE else. There are chart after chart, numbers with decimal points, that has been poured over in recent years that tax cuts at the top do not lead to a bunch of jobs. Those articles I posted are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend this but it's the truth. If I wanted to spend the time I could find dozens of articles and research that will tell you the same thing. You seem to think that since you are going to do X, that everyone else will do X. That is completely untrue and that isn't going to happen. That is what I'm saying. I'm not passing personal judgement on what you do or don't because I could give a fvck. Your logic is flawed. You seem to think everyone is going to do the same as you are. History has shown this will not happen.

You think I like government and taxes? Yeah I love writing a check for thousands every year to an ISD that I have no children enrolled at. That I have to pay for other people's children to go to school. Wouldn't that be socialism in your view? How about those with kids in public school pay for it and those that don't, don't, or pay less. How well would that go over with parents? They get a call in a month that their property tax is quadrupling because the county is going to start charging those that use "the system" instead of spreading it to every property owner. I don't get on here and bitch about it nor do I bitch about it in general to anyone. It is, for lack of a better expression, what it is.

And I get your anger and frustration, it's evident. The guy you absolutely did not want to win under any circumstances, won. And there is a possibility your tax rate will go up a couple of points and that you'll have to provide healthcare for employees. You've got your bitch, fair enough. I've stated that I think these never funded tax cuts need to go away, and that means I'll be paying more going by my own words. And I don't like that at all, like I want to pay more. But I think that is what needs to happen along with dramatic cuts to every facet of the government including social programs, military industrial complex spending, medicare, you name it. I'd rather pay a little more and not have to start speaking Mandarin.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #116
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Your wife.
That is literally the most accurate and sharpest reply to a post in the history of the forum
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:15 PM   #117
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Ahhh yes, the ol' life-experienced college student idealist who has wisdom far beyond those who are packing 20 or 30 more years of reality.


Nothing is ever going to change if you are willing to make excuses for why nobody can "get out". Whether it's California, Compton, their block, their job at McDonalds, whatever..... you go ahead and keep helping them blame everybody else and being defeatists so they feel better about not making any effort or sacrifice whatsoever to "get out". Here's a newsflash: You have to WORK for it. That doesn't mean your employment (specifically), nor does it mean just showing up at work and expecting a check because you're there. It's unfortunate that this country has put so many self-entitled incompetent idiots in places of power, then chose to idolize them and adopt their philosophy, because they are only counting on the poor masses to keep them in power by playing into their defeatism with rally cries of "tax the rich", "affordable health care", "mortgage relief", "welfare", etc. If the masses ever got up one morning and decided 'today's the day.... I'm gonna bust my ass at work, I'm gonna get a second job, I'm gonna be financially responsible, I'm gonna love my family to death... etc....' the people who are relying on them to stay in the sheot hole would crap themselves. Do you have the balls to put an "X" brand on the forehead of everybody with crap on themselves, or are you gonna take the whiny puss approach and make excuses for them, too.

You misunderstand.

I'm not making excuses, and I certainly am not a college student without any time in the "real world", since apparently college students don't live in your real world. I did ten yrs in the Corps, did my combat tours and sh*t, and now I'm trying college because I want to work for the fire dept.

I have no sympathy for those that don't fight for a better life. Some people just wanna suck wind and exist, and those people sicken me. I'm doing the best I can with what I've got, and you have no f*cking right to judge me, you self-righteous prick.

Now that that's outta the way.

What I'm trying to say is that there are many people who don't know how to get a better life, or have been stuck on the poor end for so long they simply have no better option. Their lives are sealed, doomed to an everlasting trailer-trash dust-in-the-wind life of nothingness. They are the undesirables; no one will hire them; no one will help them. Some of these people did it to themselves: drugs, run-ins with the law, whatever. Some were born into this. If you think that the best way to handle all of this is simply say **** 'em and leave them in the dust, so be it. That's fine, everyone's entitled to what they wanna think.

Sadly, in the reality I live in, many of these people vote and claim residency here. Maybe we should just nuke 'em. F*ck it. Yeah, that sounds like a viable option. Seems to be what everyone thinks.

I'm in no way saying that these people need more help than what they're getting. They've got more than enough. And you're right, there are many, MANY problems with people out there who aren't willing to step up and do what needs to be done.

And for the record, I'm only upset that anyone would actually think that I condone laziness and that type of lackadaisical attitude. That's the worst insult.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 PM   #118
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What I'm trying to say is that there are many people who don't know how to get a better life, or have been stuck on the poor end for so long they simply have no better option. Their lives are sealed, doomed to an everlasting trailer-trash dust-in-the-wind life of nothingness. They are the undesirables; no one will hire them; no one will help them. Some of these people did it to themselves: drugs, run-ins with the law, whatever. Some were born into this. If you think that the best way to handle all of this is simply say **** 'em and leave them in the dust, so be it. That's fine, everyone's entitled to what they wanna think.
You cut these people off from the government tit and you would be surprised how quickly they would learn to fend for themselves.

In Maine they claim 1 in 3 people cant afford to heat their homes yet I haven't heard of anyone freezing to death.

Starvation, hypothermia, etc = excellent motivators

government subsidies = breed laziness

and even worse the people that genuinely need assistance (the elderly, disabled) suffer and receive less than they should or none at all because people perfectly capable of fending for themselves are taking the pie
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:44 PM   #119
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What I'm trying to say is that there are many people who don't know how to get a better life, or have been stuck on the poor end for so long they simply have no better option. Their lives are sealed, doomed to an everlasting trailer-trash dust-in-the-wind life of nothingness. They are the undesirables; no one will hire them; no one will help them. Some of these people did it to themselves: drugs, run-ins with the law, whatever. Some were born into this. If you think that the best way to handle all of this is simply say **** 'em and leave them in the dust, so be it. That's fine, everyone's entitled to what they wanna think.


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And for the record, I'm only upset that anyone would actually think that I condone laziness and that type of lackadaisical attitude. That's the worst insult.
And for every one of the people above you are clearly making excuses for, you are insulting the ones who dug themselves out of it. Nobody in here is taking the "fcvk 'em" attitude; what I'm seeing is wholesale non-acceptance of the attitude that they are a lost cause, so let's pick a class of people, take something from them, and give it to these people so we all feel better about ourselves. You're not solving a single fcvking problem by doing that, in fact you are worsening the problem by making them dependent; trumping the attitude of working their way out of the hole with the gov't handout card. The Robin Hood approach is only creating a bigger divide; the opposite of what the idealists think it should do. You may not condone laziness, but the things you appear to believe in certainly support it.

I'm all for helping out people who need it, and people who will use it. I simply refuse to buy into giving people a hand when they not only show they are going to abuse it, they have the fcvking stones to throw it in the face of the people who are providing it. It is now much worse, because we have a govt that trumpets their same rallying call, lending a certain defacto legitimacy to it.......in their eyes.

You need welfare? Fine, piss in a cup and prove you're not blowing it on drugs, aren't contributing to the criminal culture, etc. Don't give me the excuse that "it's not fair", or that they "don't know" any other way, blah..blah...blah. Then show me legitimate efforts to find employment, keep your kids fed & clothed, get them to school on a regular basis. If you can't do any of that, then let's put together an equitable plan for their subsistence. If you won't do any of that, then they should get the "fcvk 'em". And if think otherwise, then so should you. Not because I think so, or because I disagree with you, but because this country was not set up to be socialist.

Maybe socialism will work (I seriously doubt it), but that's not what the plan was for this country. The people who continue to press for it are the ones who should GTFO, not the ones who are adamant about protecting the founding principles of this country.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:07 PM   #120
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The food stamp program, part of the Department of Agriculture, is pleased to be distributing the greatest amount of food stamps ever.

Meanwhile, the Park Service, also part of the Department of Agriculture, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals" because the animals may grow dependent and not learn to take care of themselves.
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