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Old 12-11-2012, 01:36 PM   #4861
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Originally Posted by Tad158 View Post
Thats odd...What did he have for mods? Y-pipe and slip-ons? Did he do any other changes like gearing at the same time?
y pipe slip ons and airfilter, i believe he installed the filter at the same time that i flashed it. once hes dne mire hours with the a/t hes gonna forward me the map. Should be prime for 3rd world country fuel specs.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:40 PM   #4862
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I run US spec 93 Octane which is like 97EU octane? So the advanced ignition timing might be too much for the fuel he is using. But in the EU, if you use the good fuel, I would expect it to ok, and not provide the results you listed, which is why I am confused.
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:14 PM   #4863
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Originally Posted by Tad158 View Post
I run US spec 93 Octane which is like 97EU octane? So the advanced ignition timing might be too much for the fuel he is using. But in the EU, if you use the good fuel, I would expect it to ok, and not provide the results you listed, which is why I am confused.
were not from the eu tho, were from dirty old nz, i was assuming fuel quality/atmospheric conditions and the angle of the moon are to blame. He also mentioned that they wernt gettibg 100% throttle abive certain rpm with that map, i need to clarify this with him.
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:23 PM   #4864
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Yep, that does not make much sense. I wonder if he has properly calibrated the TPS in the AT software.
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:33 PM   #4865
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Now for my results:

The last trip that was made to the dyno was 12/10. All along we were trying to make a linear powerband with a wide flat torque curve at a safe AFR not a dyno queen with a peaky powerband. Mike at Thunder Racing is a god among men when it comes to tuning, his specialty might be domestic V-8’s but that doesn’t mean he can’t tune a bike. In the chart is a comparison between the previous mapping as of 10/16 the infamous “R1Evo el cheapo backyard wild-ass guess” based map(in blue) and the final tuning we arrived at yesterday(in red). We chose to make a pull on the previous mapping to compare with the end result so there was no questioning the gains since both maps were being ran under the exact same conditions. The pulls were made on a Mustang dyno and in 3rd gear since the dyno is mainly used for cars and I was turning 4 drums instead of just 2 and the dyno has a motorcycle load setting to further validate our numbers. I’m sure this chart is going to stir up a lot of “discussion”, especially in this thread, but a Mustang dyno is going to give more “real world” numbers than others. We came to the conclusion that the bike makes its most consistent power at 190 degrees, that’s why in the video(and that is me on the bike, nowhere near a 21 y/o like “someone” implied LOL) its cruising at 5K RPM for a short time trying to get the temps back up between pulls, and yes that IS a '12 holding 5K RPM without any stumbles and purring right along.. It was around 48 degrees outside and the humidity was 50%. We decided to start the pull at 6K and stop at 13K since this will be your actual “useable” powerband. In the end, we had a gain of 9rwhpover the previous mapping and flatter power curve with repeatability. I think this more than proves that plenty of SAFE power can be made with a US spec bike on 93 octane fuel using a US stock map as a base tuning on a dyno with a well-qualified tuner and not just relying soley on an AT. Mike believes he can get another 3-5hp by tuning each individual cylinder since we were only using the dyno’s wideband at the collector. The only mods to my bike are slip-ons, y-pipe and a K&N filter.
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File Type: pdf Dyno Chart.pdf (88.7 KB, 74 views)
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:45 PM   #4866
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Nice results. I apologize for clogging the thread with those comments and saying it in the first place. It was a bit reckless and pointless, really. Anyway, I'm done taking up space in here without adding anything of value in the process. Carry on.

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Old 12-11-2012, 06:47 PM   #4867
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Oil, what was the blue curve? Do I read your post correctly as Evo's map? Or a stock ECU map?
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #4868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad158 View Post
Oil, what was the blue curve? Do I read your post correctly as Evo's map? Or a stock ECU map?
The blue line is the previous map, the red lines are from 12/10 dyno session. They are like that for comparison reasons. The map used in was a '12 stock base map using timing from an '11. All the rest is the collaboration of work between R1Evo and myself along with the tuner.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:00 PM   #4869
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So Oil, Can I twist your arm into letting me try that ECU image that you used with the red curve (plus any fuel tuning file if you used a Bazzaz/PCV to tune the fuel if you were just using the F-T interface or any piggy back unit)?
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:11 PM   #4870
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Ok, enough at each other. I think we can all agree that it is a nice result, and F-T was what made it possible in the end, because we would not have the ability to unlock the ECU and beable to edit it, and to produce those numbers.

Again, Nice result Oil....and I would so love to try that map....
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:28 PM   #4871
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Yep. Just like you said, the gains are evident. The tuner did a nice job improving everything there.

Last edited by AKDMA; 12-11-2012 at 07:38 PM. Reason: grammatical error
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #4872
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The idea that a dyno can or cannot be calibrated is like having a religious or political argument, take it else where....since it has nothing to do with a flash tune interface...as the thread implies...
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:44 PM   #4873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad158 View Post
The idea that a dyno can or cannot be calibrated is like having a religious or political argument, take it else where....since it has nothing to do with a flash tune interface...as the thread implies...
I totally agree, no 2 dynos are going to show the same results. Thats not my issue, my issue begins with the negativity that surrounds this thread.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:59 PM   #4874
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I love this thread. If you like you can fly down to Hawaii and we can all duke it out in BJ Penn's UFC gym in Honolulu...? I'm down!
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:02 PM   #4875
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Anyway are you guys done? Just asking...not like we're here to support a feature of an apparatus that helps our bikes, but, then again I'm sure someone can start bashing me now for posting this.

So going back to this discussion. Man! chattham's map rocks!!! Can't wait to install my PCV and download the other version. KOOO!!!
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:43 PM   #4876
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Great numbers. Im glad the bike did so well. We will continue to improve that map with the individual cylinder testing as soon as i get a chance to weld the dam header... Christmas and kids and bike stuff don't mix my bank account is tapped . lol Thank you for working with me on the maps and i always value your input constructive feed back that you provided to me.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:35 AM   #4877
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Can anyone actually show me a dyno of somebody who has added a pcv and then compared that to a a flashtune. Even better a pcv with auto tuner vs a flashtune.

I've done a lot of reading now and I personally think there are pros and cons for both. I really am in 2 minds.
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:41 AM   #4878
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Along with AKDMA, I apologize for clogging this thread with unproductive nonsense. It just rubs me the wrong way when statements get made without facts to back them and the whole situation got totally out of hand. We have worked out our differences of opinion and once again I apologize.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:43 AM   #4879
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnd View Post
Can anyone actually show me a dyno of somebody who has added a pcv and then compared that to a a flashtune. Even better a pcv with auto tuner vs a flashtune.

I've done a lot of reading now and I personally think there are pros and cons for both. I really am in 2 minds.
This is my personal opinion on that. The PCV and AT is a good bang for your buck set-up. You can make good safe power with it. It's advantages are: most bike tuners are familiar with it, it's pretty much plug & play and when being tuned at the dyno its quick and easy to adjustments and those adjustments are loaded in 10-15 secs. The disadvantages, again this is my personal opinion, in order to control the ign timing or secondary injectors you need to purchase seperate modules which means more $ and space to hide boxes,wiring and assorted shit. With the FT interface you can adjust pretty much everything ECU controlled and remove all restrictions for less money. The disadvantages: most tuners aren't familiar with it and it takes 3-5 mins to make changes in the ECU where the PCV pretty much does it on the fly. If you are paying by the hour for dyno time then it can get expensive. My tuner charged one flat rate and was very familiar with ECU reflash programs since he works with them daily and the FT software was almost identicle to what he works with. I went to 2 different tuners that mainly delt with PCV and they were quoting 8-10 hrs minimum of dyno time(at $90-100 per hour) to tune with FT. One of them quoted more but I think it was because he just didnt want to mess with it. The power increase in the chart I posted up came mainly from ignition timing tuning, we made over 5hp by advancing the timing 2 degrees in some areas. In the end its all in how much you want to spend and finding a tuner that is familiar with ECU reflashing. Money-wise the FT software is the way to go due to the cost and what you can adjust but like I said not every tuner is familiar with it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:47 AM   #4880
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Basically I agree with Oilfield. If you can afford both and don't mind spending some extra cash, I think getting the Bazzaz+FT interface is the way to go. It's just faster. Bazzaz controls all injectors, and has the option to switch between 2 maps on the fly, which is a handy feature. Fuel-wise the FT interface can do the same thing as a PCV, it's just a bit more time consuming. But you're removing the risk of a piggyback unit failing and dropping weight, so there are advantages there too. I don't have a tuner and just wanted to try Bazzzaz+AT after hearing a lot of rave reviews. It's a good setup, but a custom tune by a good tuner is going to be the best option.
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