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Old 12-12-2012, 12:05 AM   #1
indianfighter
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suspension and tyre pressure prep for track day

I'm doing a couple of track days next month; I've just put in racetech springs for my weight and will be using Pirelli SC-2 tyres. What settings and tyre pressures should I be running? I'm 300 lbs in gear.

On the previous track day I was running stock suspension and had jacked up the preload, comp and rebound but the bike was still wallowy. Hopefully this should be better now.

I'll set up the sag, as a general rule of thumb how much you guys jack up the comp by? And rebound? I've been told comp should be hiked up quite a bit but rebound not so much, may be 1 or 2 clicks.

What tyre pressure should I run in the sc-2 considering my weight? And what's the correct method/sequence of measuring tyre pressure? Cold, hot, after a couple of laps?
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:17 AM   #2
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I would email Pirelli and give them information on what track you'll be at and what tire your running, they will tell you the recommeneded psi.

As for suspension setting, if you have the sag set correctly, I'd run the normal range setting from the manual and adjust to what the bike is doing. Maybe set it a little stiffer for track use because they like to set the suspension softer for the street from the factory.

Suspension works optimally when it is set in the middle of its range. having it set At the max or minimum reduces the amount of travel and forgiveness the suspension will allow
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Old 12-12-2012, 06:45 AM   #3
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I'm 300 with gear...I run 31/29 HOT on my Pirelli SC Pros (same compound - just slicks to DOTs) on my SV650 race bike. I can't help with suspension 'cause I run at Loudon, NH. Very techincal, point and shoot track..lots of bumps and transitions....

Back to the tires - have you run the SC's yet? If your rear is a little soft, you'll know it. You will give movement either way, but it's uncomfortable if it's too soft. lol. I ran 26 once - ONCE....almost pooped my pants!

As for getting the pressure - if you're not running warmers (which I'm assuming), it'll be a little hairy for the first couple laps - so TAKE IT EASY! Ramp up to 100%....start at 29/27. Run a few laps to get the temp up, pull in to the pits and check your pressures...go back out, run a few laps, go back in and check...finish the session, as soon as you get in, check again and reset accordingly. Second session, don't touch'em. Go out run 1/2 the session, go in and check, finish the session, check again. 3rd session, run the whole thing...If it feels funny, pull in and check, if not, run it and check when your sessions over. the only time I would check after that is after lunch. Pull in 1/2 session and check just to be sure.

Our issue with being bigger dudes, is that the tires will feel a little squishy until you build the pressure up. It should only take you a couple laps....If it feels 'off', by all means, pull in a re-adjust. the tires are phenominal and should be very confidence insipiring.

disclaimer - My bike is 70hp - the R1 is 'a little' more powerful! your 'comfortable' pressures may vary slightly!
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:44 AM   #4
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Sc2 should be 27 rear hot and 31-32 front hot. If you have it sprung for your weight, the psi does not vary much over what I recommend to anyone. In fact it will only be 1 psi higher


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Old 12-12-2012, 07:45 AM   #5
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You will have to play with it some as I don't know the track temp, surface, or the air temp FYI. Adjust .5psi at a time


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Old 12-12-2012, 08:25 AM   #6
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Thanks guys, appreciate all the feedback and help. I'm in india, track surface is nice, abrasive, little bumpy and surface not the best all through. Temps will be in the high 20s, low 30s, centigrades that is and humidity could be 65 to 80 %.

Marsh, my track is tight and twisty too. The last I ran SC2 was on my R6 and I lowside on a slow tight uphill left. Lost confidence in the bike after that due to suspension being not set up for my weight. Now I'm on a bigger bike so wanna push it as my suspension is sorted I hope.

Tfs, you are saying run 1 psi higher than what you recommended?

I ran this bike with stock suspension all firmed up a few months ago and it was terrifying. I was running wide at exits, the bike would wallow mid corner and it generally felt scary. Hope it should be fine with proper springs now.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
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TFS is saying the same as me for front temps...but I do disagree with the rear. my rear was not happy with 27....I have a pic of my bike with 27 (from practice)...you will see how flexed the carcass is....even tougher, without warmers, you'll be heading out of the pits with the rear at 25...THAT'S scary!

For my tight track, I did the highest springs in the front from racetech - I believe it was 1.1? for the rear, I went up 1 spring size from what the website recommended. (that was recommended by GMD Computrack that has been racing there for 20 years).
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:43 AM   #8
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I got 1.20 kg front and 15.2 kg rear from RT.

Should I start with factory set comp and rebound and then hike it up or should I start a little stiffer from the start?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #9
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I'd put the dampers at the standard setting for your year, and ride it a few sessions. Then adjust from there. Not really of the opinion that it's going to dial in perfectly since you've increased the front spring by about 30% and the rear by about 50% with no changes to damping. I don't really believe the stock damping is going to control that much spring well, but you'll only know from setting it and riding it.
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marshdrummer View Post
TFS is saying the same as me for front temps...but I do disagree with the rear. my rear was not happy with 27....I have a pic of my bike with 27 (from practice)...you will see how flexed the carcass is....even tougher, without warmers, you'll be heading out of the pits with the rear at 25...THAT'S scary!

For my tight track, I did the highest springs in the front from racetech - I believe it was 1.1? for the rear, I went up 1 spring size from what the website recommended. (that was recommended by GMD Computrack that has been racing there for 20 years).
Slicks and DOT are two COMPLETELY different tires compound may be the same, but the tire is not. I am a Pirelli distributor the recommended psi for the super corsa is 26 rear hot off the Warmers, and the front is 30 hot off the Warmers. These numbers are always jumping off points, and not perfect. If the tire is sliding around bump the psi up one.


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Old 12-12-2012, 01:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfs32 View Post
Slicks and DOT are two COMPLETELY different tires compound may be the same, but the tire is not.
The way it was explained to me, the two tires are basically the same...the SC's have the sipes (sp?) to make them SS legal.....Is this not correct?
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanQ View Post
I'd put the dampers at the standard setting for your year, and ride it a few sessions. Then adjust from there. Not really of the opinion that it's going to dial in perfectly since you've increased the front spring by about 30% and the rear by about 50% with no changes to damping. I don't really believe the stock damping is going to control that much spring well, but you'll only know from setting it and riding it.
Dan the man, thanks for your reply. I know it's not ideal but is it better than riding completely stock springs as I'm a heavy bloke? We don't have the expertise or tools to do the valving work here else I would have done that asap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tfs32 View Post
Slicks and DOT are two COMPLETELY different tires compound may be the same, but the tire is not. I am a Pirelli distributor the recommended psi for the super corsa is 26 rear hot off the Warmers, and the front is 30 hot off the Warmers. These numbers are always jumping off points, and not perfect. If the tire is sliding around bump the psi up one.


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My SC-2s are not slicks and I'm not using warmers; if that makes any difference to the hot psi?
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:11 AM   #13
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Is use warmers to help save tire life. Warmers are not just for being able to start off fast. They help with heat cycles and prevent cold tearing on the tires. If you can borrow a set I'd suggest it. Plus it helps with adjusting the tire pressure
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:45 AM   #14
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To use warmers I'll need a generator, then I'll need a supply of diesel to run the generator. Electricity supply is a problem at out track. Maybe when I get better I'll get a set.

I hope my SC2s last for 7 days. Doubt it though right? Last track day I ran 2CTs on the R1 and hated it, it gave no feel but that could be down to the suspension too.

Anyway, finally we got both the front and rear springs fitted. The rear static and rider sag set up perfectly but we're having trouble with the front sag.

The issue is we adjust through the entire preload range for the fronts but we're hardly able to get any major lengths. The best we managed is 40 mm rider sag. The rear is set for 31 mm.

Is this normal for the 1.20 kg front springs? With the front suspension fully unloaded we got 644 mm approximately. With it loaded with bike weight we get 620 odd mm, with rider we get 604 mm or less. We've used ohlins fork oil, 500 ml, new seals and the spacers that came along. What are we doing wrong? We are trying to match it with the rear rider sag of 31 mm.

Compression and rebound are set to normal as per yamaha's manual.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:29 AM   #15
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If you have 40mm of sag you need to add preload. If you can't add preload you have the wrong springs in the front
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indianfighter View Post
Dan the man, thanks for your reply. I know it's not ideal but is it better than riding completely stock springs as I'm a heavy bloke? We don't have the expertise or tools to do the valving work here else I would have done that asap.
It will work to a degree, but traction and tire wear may be odd. Geometry should be close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by indianfighter View Post
To use warmers I'll need a generator, then I'll need a supply of diesel to run the generator. Electricity supply is a problem at out track. Maybe when I get better I'll get a set.

I hope my SC2s last for 7 days. Doubt it though right? Last track day I ran 2CTs on the R1 and hated it, it gave no feel but that could be down to the suspension too.

Anyway, finally we got both the front and rear springs fitted. The rear static and rider sag set up perfectly but we're having trouble with the front sag.

The issue is we adjust through the entire preload range for the fronts but we're hardly able to get any major lengths. The best we managed is 40 mm rider sag. The rear is set for 31 mm.

Is this normal for the 1.20 kg front springs? With the front suspension fully unloaded we got 644 mm approximately. With it loaded with bike weight we get 620 odd mm, with rider we get 604 mm or less. We've used ohlins fork oil, 500 ml, new seals and the spacers that came along. What are we doing wrong? We are trying to match it with the rear rider sag of 31 mm.

Compression and rebound are set to normal as per yamaha's manual.
How did you measure. Did you measure the amount of movement with a zip tie or something, or the total length of the chrome.

These models have really long, soft top out springs, which really makes measuring sag on these forks a mathematical nightmare. What a lot of us do is get it in the ballpark (30-40 mm of stat (rider) sag) and monitor the amount of travel used. Even measuring free sag is odd because you always have two springs working against each other.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:36 AM   #17
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I measured from the top triple to the end of the fork tube where it goes into the black part above the wheels. Got it on side stand, let the forks hang, then back on the flr and measured. I'll try out the cable tie method and I'm sure that will be fine but is the geometry ok? 31mm sag rear and 24 mm odd in front?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:04 AM   #18
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I've read the problems about measuring front sag, many were complaining. I didn't know it would be this bad, now I've experienced it first hand. So the compromise is get it between 30-40 mm rider sag and then use zip ties? Leave about 10 mm free?
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Old 12-13-2012, 09:29 AM   #19
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If you have preload all the way in. You probably have wrong springs.

As a quick fix. Fill up more fork oil so you reduce the "air spring" part of it.

R1 fork total travel is supposed to be 120mm. For track, 23-27% of total travel is a good gauge for sag.

Make sure your fork oil is at the right viscosity cos yammies run very very light fork oils. Around 15 cSt. Mess up the oils and your comp / rebound will be out of whack.

Start comp / rebound at stock and tighten 2 clicks at a time. My own settings are
Comp 14 clicks (30 max)
Rebound 8 clicks (29 max)

Hope this helps

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Old 12-13-2012, 10:14 AM   #20
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Springs can't be wrong. They're 1.20 kgs from RT. Fork oil is ohlins recommended by hard racing, don't know the viscosity, I'll check tomorrow.

How much do you weigh? Can you explain the % figures in numbers?
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