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Old 12-13-2012, 12:09 PM   #21
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well done... looks great man
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Old 12-13-2012, 01:23 PM   #22
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Cool, you can get 6-8 asian girls in there, nice work!
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:04 PM   #23
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Here's the finished project. With the scrap I had left over, I was able to make her a nice, unique keepsake box (because I'm a cool boyfriend, haha). I left the interior unfinished so the cedar aroma wouldn't get spoiled by any fumes/smells from the poly. Plus, I don't want her blankets/throws to smell like polyurethane. Same goes for the keepsake box, the interior was left unfinished on purpose.

If any of you guys have any questions, I'd be glad to answer them. By the way, this is my first project of any size. I never made anything nearly as big as this chest. I learned a lot on this project. So much of it was made up as I went along.

Here are a few particulars on the chest in case anyone is interested:
Outside: walnut
Interior: cedar
Floor: cedar
Finish: Minwax Wipe On Poly, glossy
Hinges: Rockler Torsion hinges
Router bits used: Freud rail & stile set, Freud raised panel bit
Glue: Titebond II, dark
Weight of the chest: 75-80 pounds. It's built to last!!
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Last edited by Mad German; 12-29-2012 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:13 PM   #24
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haha nice craftsmanship bud
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:25 PM   #25
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Gorgeous.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:56 AM   #26
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Wow! The clear coat really did proper justice for that walnut. A lot of people would take a short-cut on the back of the chest and not do the raised panels because they might not ever be seen back there, but (assuming you are really German) it looks like you've lived up to your heritage and built it quality all the way around, inside and out. That piece should be around a long, long time. You should get one of those branding irons with your own custom stamp or logo on it so you can burn your mark into everything you build. I got one for my Dad for Xmas about 20 years ago, and will get one of my own once I move from building built-in type stuff to freestanding pieces.

One question of the cedar lining: how is it attached? You threw me a curve ball by putting in horizontal boards; I had it pictured in my mind that they would all be vertical. However, I can see that the exposed edge at the top looks much better than it would if they were vertical. I only ask now because the unfinished cedar will want to expand/contract in the long direction, but both ends are "captured". If it's glued, it could want to check the grain, or it could want to lever the corners of the chest....hard to say. If nailed, they would move pretty freely, but may end up loosening up on the nails over time....not a big deal. If they were vertical they would be free to expand upward without hurting anything, but maybe still loosen up on the nails. It was probably a bigger problem years ago when people didn't have Air Conditioning, but now the overall humidity levels in houses is a lot more stable than it used to be. I know I've committed some of the cardinal sins of woodworking on some of my projects and have not seen the side effects. I can only attribute it to the pieces being in conditioned air all the time.

BTW, what did the overall size end up being? I know you considered 3 or 4 panels to a side, 1 or 2 on the ends, and around 48" wide, etc.... then we discussed the "Golden Ratio" on panel sizing. It's obviously 3 panels on the front/back and 1 on the sides, but what overall size did you go with, and did you convince yourself that it was big enough and that 3/4" lumber was plenty strong?....or not?
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:49 AM   #27
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Great work!
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:57 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMac View Post
I only ask now because the unfinished cedar will want to expand/contract in the long direction, but both ends are "captured"
Most shrinkage/expansion occurs across the width, along the growth rings, so less so with quarter sawn lumber. Most plain sawn woods shrink, across the grain, - from green to oven-dry - approximately 6-12% with an average of 8%. Most quarter sawn woods shrink, across the grain, - from green to oven-dry - approximately 3-5% with an average of 4%. Shrinkage in the longitudinal direction is only around 0.1%. Kiln-dried woods that are stored indoors will only shrink 1/4 to 1/2 of those numbers.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:14 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by bsgesch View Post
Most shrinkage/expansion occurs across the width, along the growth rings, so less so with quarter sawn lumber. Most plain sawn woods shrink, across the grain, - from green to oven-dry - approximately 6-12% with an average of 8%. Most quarter sawn woods shrink, across the grain, - from green to oven-dry - approximately 3-5% with an average of 4%. Shrinkage in the longitudinal direction is only around 0.1%. Kiln-dried woods that are stored indoors will only shrink 1/4 to 1/2 of those numbers.
tell that to my hardwood floors.

You are correct, though, but what I'm talking about is specific to his project: unfinished cedar vs the finished walnut. The cedar will expand in both directions because it is open to absorbing a lot of moisture vs the walnut, which can create problems at the joints if the cedar is tight to it already. Even a little amount of movement longitudinally can create great force. It would have also been a problem for vertical pieces if they were tight to the walnut, and can still be on the horizontals depending on how they are fastened to the walnut, which is why I ask. I built a plywood box (very stable in all directions) with solid wood pieces in the interior that were tight to the plywood and it leveraged it into cracking the joint, which is why I make sure to never build that into anything again. That, and my Dad will never let me hear the end of it. I've also paid the price for finishing only a single side of a piece of wood and leaving the other side bare. I don't do that any more either. The classic wood expansion problem is the breadboard, which is all caused by cross-wise expansion.

I can tell you that the kiln dried numbers are deceiving, wood will slowly regain moisture back to about double what kiln dried is if it is in the air. Kiln dried helps a ton when building, cutting, machining, etc.... but it will not stay in that condition unless you never let is see humidity, and even humidity in a conditioned house is enough during the summer for it to absorb moisture.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:23 AM   #30
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tell that to my hardwood floors.
Ouch... What species?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:48 AM   #31
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Ouch... What species?
Mostly white oak with some walnut accents.

You can see the problem in the attached pics. First one is an example of what the joints do every winter. You can see where they have contracted in both directions. In summer, all those joints will be tight.

Second pic is where the ends of white oak meet the side of walnut, plus a piece of white oak at the top runs along with the walnut. There is no gap between any of the walnut pieces, and only a small separation between the oak and walnut running side-by-side, but huge gaps where the ends of the white oak meet the walnut, which will close up in the summer. And this was all kiln dried 3/4" flooring.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #32
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Amazing work!
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:17 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by KMac View Post
I built a plywood box (very stable in all directions) with solid wood pieces in the interior that were tight to the plywood and it leveraged it into cracking the joint, which is why I make sure to never build that into anything again. That, and my Dad will never let me hear the end of it. I've also paid the price for finishing only a single side of a piece of wood and leaving the other side bare. I don't do that any more either. The classic wood expansion problem is the breadboard, which is all caused by cross-wise expansion.
That's called "experience."
I've heard of woodworkers waking up to loud bangs when a project expands to the breaking point. You bring up great points to consider in the design phase.
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Old 12-30-2012, 01:30 PM   #34
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I've heard of woodworkers waking up to loud bangs when a project expands to the breaking point.
I would throw up and cry if I heard that.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:15 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by KMac View Post
Wow! The clear coat really did proper justice for that walnut. A lot of people would take a short-cut on the back of the chest and not do the raised panels because they might not ever be seen back there, but (assuming you are really German) it looks like you've lived up to your heritage and built it quality all the way around, inside and out. That piece should be around a long, long time. You should get one of those branding irons with your own custom stamp or logo on it so you can burn your mark into everything you build. I got one for my Dad for Xmas about 20 years ago, and will get one of my own once I move from building built-in type stuff to freestanding pieces.

One question of the cedar lining: how is it attached? You threw me a curve ball by putting in horizontal boards; I had it pictured in my mind that they would all be vertical. However, I can see that the exposed edge at the top looks much better than it would if they were vertical. I only ask now because the unfinished cedar will want to expand/contract in the long direction, but both ends are "captured". If it's glued, it could want to check the grain, or it could want to lever the corners of the chest....hard to say. If nailed, they would move pretty freely, but may end up loosening up on the nails over time....not a big deal. If they were vertical they would be free to expand upward without hurting anything, but maybe still loosen up on the nails. It was probably a bigger problem years ago when people didn't have Air Conditioning, but now the overall humidity levels in houses is a lot more stable than it used to be. I know I've committed some of the cardinal sins of woodworking on some of my projects and have not seen the side effects. I can only attribute it to the pieces being in conditioned air all the time.

BTW, what did the overall size end up being? I know you considered 3 or 4 panels to a side, 1 or 2 on the ends, and around 48" wide, etc.... then we discussed the "Golden Ratio" on panel sizing. It's obviously 3 panels on the front/back and 1 on the sides, but what overall size did you go with, and did you convince yourself that it was big enough and that 3/4" lumber was plenty strong?....or not?
Thanks for the compliments. Yes, my family heritage is German. Maybe that's why I'm so anal about everything and making sure things are always in order!

The clear really makes the walnut grain pop, if you ask me. I attached the cedar to the inside of the chest by simply shooting a few 23 ga pins in it, tacking it to the rails and stiles, not the panels. There's a little room on each end of the planks for expansion as well as a little space between them. However, like you say, in AC homes, I'm not as worried about expansion as what some folks will have you believe. Just use common sense. That being said, my oak floors do have a few places that they've contracted since I installed them about 10 years ago. Plus, since the cedar lining is pinned in, and not glued, it will be easy to replace at any time. I started out planning on making the cedar planks vertical, but when I put a few in there, it looked funny against the floor. Unless I made them the exact same size as the floor planks, it would look odd. Besides, making them run longwise, it was easier to just put a profile on the planks as I was installing them, just like the floor. That way, when I got to the top, the plank already had a nice rounded edge to it.

The overall dimensions of the chest are:
49" long x 18" wide x 22" deep. I chose 49" wide since my rails and stiles were 2.5" each. That means for the front and back, 49" - (4)x2.5"=39". 39"/3=13". That made the panel openings a nice round figure. The width, 18" was chosen because I didn't want it too wide, in case she decided to keep it at the foot of her bed. So I made it a few inches deeper, 22". I'm so glad I didn't make it any smaller. It sounds like it's a large chest, and it is a substantial piece of furniture, but by the time she starts filling it with blankets, sweaters, etc., the extra size will be great. I broke the "Golden Rule" as far as panel sizing, but I still think it looks good.

I did make it so the top overhangs the chest all around. I did this to hide the hinges in the rear but also to give it a balanced look compared to the base of the chest. Remember, there's the chest itself, but it also has a base of 3/4" all around the bottom. It looks very nicely proportioned if I say so myself.

And you were right, 3/4" thick wood was plenty strong! I'd make another if I was asked. However, depending who asked me would determine how much I charged! I have over $600 in material on this chest, and that's being conservative, trust me. Good quality lumber is $$$$$. Hell, the hinges were nearly $100 right there.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:50 PM   #36
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Absolutely beautiful work !! I didn't see this before or would have spoken up. Of all the available finishes out there...I love a nice old fashioned gun stock finish. It's a lot of work..but the results are SO worth the effort in my opinion.

sand dry to 200 grit...wet sand to 400 grit..then mix poly and mineral oil,wipe on and wet sand to 600 grit. Finish by wiping off with a dry lint free cloth. Repeat steps in one area at a time because the final finish will dry rather quickly.

The fine slurry created by the 600 grit with the poly mixture fills in any open grain without hiding it's beauty and the finish ( if done right ) feels like silk and looks incredibly deep.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:30 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Mad German View Post
Thanks for the compliments. Yes, my family heritage is German. Maybe that's why I'm so anal about everything and making sure things are always in order!

The clear really makes the walnut grain pop, if you ask me. I attached the cedar to the inside of the chest by simply shooting a few 23 ga pins in it, tacking it to the rails and stiles, not the panels. There's a little room on each end of the planks for expansion as well as a little space between them. However, like you say, in AC homes, I'm not as worried about expansion as what some folks will have you believe. Just use common sense. That being said, my oak floors do have a few places that they've contracted since I installed them about 10 years ago. Plus, since the cedar lining is pinned in, and not glued, it will be easy to replace at any time. I started out planning on making the cedar planks vertical, but when I put a few in there, it looked funny against the floor. Unless I made them the exact same size as the floor planks, it would look odd. Besides, making them run longwise, it was easier to just put a profile on the planks as I was installing them, just like the floor. That way, when I got to the top, the plank already had a nice rounded edge to it.

The overall dimensions of the chest are:
49" long x 18" wide x 22" deep. I chose 49" wide since my rails and stiles were 2.5" each. That means for the front and back, 49" - (4)x2.5"=39". 39"/3=13". That made the panel openings a nice round figure. The width, 18" was chosen because I didn't want it too wide, in case she decided to keep it at the foot of her bed. So I made it a few inches deeper, 22". I'm so glad I didn't make it any smaller. It sounds like it's a large chest, and it is a substantial piece of furniture, but by the time she starts filling it with blankets, sweaters, etc., the extra size will be great. I broke the "Golden Rule" as far as panel sizing, but I still think it looks good.

I did make it so the top overhangs the chest all around. I did this to hide the hinges in the rear but also to give it a balanced look compared to the base of the chest. Remember, there's the chest itself, but it also has a base of 3/4" all around the bottom. It looks very nicely proportioned if I say so myself.

And you were right, 3/4" thick wood was plenty strong! I'd make another if I was asked. However, depending who asked me would determine how much I charged! I have over $600 in material on this chest, and that's being conservative, trust me. Good quality lumber is $$$$$. Hell, the hinges were nearly $100 right there.
The chest definitely looks very balanced and is top notch, all the way around. Even the panel sizing is good. The Golden Ratio is a target and you're very close to it, enough so that it is still appealing to the eye and not distracting, which is the goal. You far exceeded that.

And I know about the material $$$$. Somehow or another, it is ALWAYS more than you think. The little stuff just adds up and up and up. I often have as much, maybe more into a project than if I just bought the piece, but I know in 100% of the cases mine will be much higher quality and last longer, PLUS I got the enjoyment out of building it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:32 AM   #38
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The chest definitely looks very balanced and is top notch, all the way around. Even the panel sizing is good. The Golden Ratio is a target and you're very close to it, enough so that it is still appealing to the eye and not distracting, which is the goal. You far exceeded that.

And I know about the material $$$$. Somehow or another, it is ALWAYS more than you think. The little stuff just adds up and up and up. I often have as much, maybe more into a project than if I just bought the piece, but I know in 100% of the cases mine will be much higher quality and last longer, PLUS I got the enjoyment out of building it.
Thanks again for the compliments. Yes, you are 100% right about the cost of making a piece vs. buying it. I could've bought her a hope chest, but it wouldn't have been made by me, had my personal touches to it, finished like I wanted, etc. Plus, it's a hope chest. It should come from someone close, like the guy who wants to marry her. After getting divorced, the thought of marraige usually made me , but not with her. She's great.

My next project is two of these. One for my son and one for hers. They won't put blankets in them, of course, but rather many stuff like toys, robots, Legos, rocks, fossils, etc.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:39 PM   #39
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Oh man....... are you gonna do the splined corners like they did?
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Old 01-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #40
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^ I'm not sure. I'll have to do some test pieces if I do. I'll give them a try. If not, there's always the old tongue and groove joints. I'm getting pretty good at them by now. However, depending on the length of the sides of the trunk, I might give them a shot. When I start on that project, I'll be sure to post up a thread.
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