Moto GP and WSB : Yamaha R1 Forum

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 04:56 AM

Hey I'm at work and whilst I've got sh!!tloads to do I still find myself being distracted by more interesting stuff.
Any way I've got a couple of thoughts here I'd like opinions on.

With Moto GP going to 800cc in 2007 will this enable WSB to gain some of the ground they have lost in the last couple of years?

WSB was at it's most popular when Moto GP were racing 500cc 2 strokes and we could all relate more to the big twins and 750cc GSXR's etc. When Moto GP switched to 4 stroke 1000cc bikes WSB became a bit of an irrelevance. I know that you can't buy 4 stroke Moto GP bikes in the dealers but now that they are closer to what we all ride I think that this has taken the shine off WSB especially as we all know that whilst the WSB bikes may look the same as ours they are very different beasts.

Also if Moto GP go down to 800cc maybe WSB bikes will became as fast and as exciting as Moto GP.

Another thing when the capacity goes down to 800cc will Ducati just stick their 1000cc Desmosedici into WSB?

Any thoughts?

hooligan_r1 · 11-27-2005, 05:12 AM

I agree that more people may be more interested in motoGP now that they ride four-strokes somewhat resembling the road-going bikes we have.

The trickle down effect of technology is alot more now that they've gone this route.

The gap may get closer between motoGP and WSB performance, but the motoGP will stay ahead. IMO.

Valerossi · 11-27-2005, 06:35 AM

hmm... honestly I still don't think by going to 800cc with help WSB to gain its ground... cause, for me, MotoGP is like F1, is the pinnecle of motorcycle racing... there is no substitute... don't get me wrong, I love WSB too and it's awesome, but it's still consider 2nd class racing... well, at least this will be for the diehard MotoGP fans...

But even back then when WSB was at it's most popular, 500cc was also very popular, maybe just not in North America... but I've been watching guys like Doohan, Criville, Gibernau, etc., and the young Rossi in 125/250cc... you can still see a lot of fans/spectaters on the tracks... but for sure, MotoGP got even more popular now...

About the Desmosedici racing in WSB... well, if they make a homologated street version... then I guess they might race it... but until then, they cannot...

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 06:57 AM

Hey Vale you're right moto GP has always been popular and has always been the premier league of bike racing. A few years ago though a lot of people me included preffered to follow WSB than Moto GP. I remember when Kenny Jr won in 2000 Colin Edwards won WSB which at the time was far more exciting.
Ducati are supposed to be producing a desmosedici for the road to be on sale for 2007 (original schedule was 2006). This suggests to me that Ducati will race the Desmosedici in WSB. The 999 is a disaster and if they want to win WSB which is important for them then they need the V4 on the grid.
Hey maybe Yamaha will homologate the M1 as well

Valerossi · 11-27-2005, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redrocket996
Hey Vale you're right moto GP has always been popular and has always been the premier league of bike racing. A few years ago though a lot of people me included preffered to follow WSB than Moto GP. I remember when Kenny Jr won in 2000 Colin Edwards won WSB which at the time was far more exciting.
Ducati are supposed to be producing a desmosedici for the road to be on sale for 2007 (original schedule was 2006). This suggests to me that Ducati will race the Desmosedici in WSB. The 999 is a disaster and if they want to win WSB which is important for them then they need the V4 on the grid.
Hey maybe Yamaha will homologate the M1 as well

Yeah I know what you mean, that year WSB was very exciting... however, that same year is also Rossi's first year in 500cc... which was even more interesting/exciting to watch... well, at least for me it is...

Yeah I heard about the Desmosedici for the road too, but they keep on delaying it... I hope it's for sure this time...

About the 999, not sure if it's a total disaster... they did won the BSB though... I think they just need a better rider in WSB...

and Corser on a powerful K5 is just too strong...

But who knows, if John Reynold wasn't injured, then maybe you wouldn't won the BSB this year...

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valerossi
Yeah I know what you mean, that year WSB was very exciting... however, that same year is also Rossi's first year in 500cc... which was even more interesting/exciting to watch... well, at least for me it is...

Yeah I heard about the Desmosedici for the road too, but they keep on delaying it... I hope it's for sure this time...

About the 999, not sure if it's a total disaster... they did won the BSB though... I think they just need a better rider in WSB... and Corser on a powerful K5 is just too strong... But who knows, if John Reynold wasn't injured, then maybe you wouldn't won the BSB this year...

Yes if I remember right I think that Rossi won a couple of races towards the end of the 2000 season. I do remember everyone raving about him and as it now turns out they were very right.

By Ducati standards the 999 has to be considered a disapointment at least. It's not anywhere near as dominant on the track, looks like a dogs dinner and whatever anyone says it's got no handling advantage either. I loved the 996 but have chosen to completely write off the 999 and am now waiting for the desmosedici. As a road bike I'd prefer an MV over a 999. BTW I 've heard rumours that MV may race their F4 1000 in WSB as well which would be awesome. Imagine the Desmosedici, MV1000, M1 and Honda V5 RCV on a WSB grid!!

Valerossi · 11-27-2005, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redrocket996
Yes if I remember right I think that Rossi won a couple of races towards the end of the 2000 season. I do remember everyone raving about him and as it now turns out they were very right.

By Ducati standards the 999 has to be considered a disapointment at least. It's not anywhere near as dominant on the track, looks like a dogs dinner and whatever anyone says it's got no handling advantage either. I loved the 996 but have chosen to completely write off the 999 and am now waiting for the desmosedici. As a road bike I'd prefer an MV over a 999. BTW I 've heard rumours that MV may race their F4 1000 in WSB as well which would be awesome. Imagine the Desmosedici, MV1000, M1 and Honda V5 RCV on a WSB grid!!

Yeah Rossi won 2 races and finished 2nd overall...

For the 999... might not be a bad thing for the fans if you like to see a more competitive racing I guess... you know what I mean...

About the MV in WSBK... well, rumors has been circulating since the end of 2004, which they suppose to compete in 2005, but didn't... personally I'd love to see the MV in WSBK for 2006 also...

But I doubt we will see all Desmosedici, MV1000, M1 and Honda V5 RCV on a WSB grid though... cause then, that's MotoGP...

Justin Sane · 11-27-2005, 08:26 AM

hey, i love motogp as well, but you can't deny that this year SBK had much more intense racing than motogp...

as far as the desmosedici in SBK goes, i don't think ducati as a factory would be interested... they might support a sattelite team (carrachi scr??). all the major factories understood that SBK is the ideal place to show off their 'street'-bikes, and that good results for the R1, cbr gsxr zx10 999..., mean better sales. why would they go back to racing limited number specials like the rc45 and r7 were and hurt their sales??

i personally am looking forward to a better season in BSB, i hope they start bashing fairings again, pre-2001 style!

i'd love to see shakey flip the bird to lavilla while passing him on the outside!

J.R. quitting still is a sad fact though

anyway, with baylisstic returning to WSBK, i think that'll be the show to watch! it's a shame that so much shit is coming to the light now...

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane

anyway, with baylisstic returning to WSBK, i think that'll be the show to watch! it's a shame that so much shit is coming to the light now...

I must have been living a cave or something as I've no idea what you're talking about

What shit's come to light?

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Valerossi
Yeah Rossi won 2 races and finished 2nd overall...

For the 999... might not be a bad thing for the fans if you like to see a more competitive racing I guess... you know what I mean...

About the MV in WSBK... well, rumors has been circulating since the end of 2004, which they suppose to compete in 2005, but didn't... personally I'd love to see the MV in WSBK for 2006 also...

But I doubt we will see all Desmosedici, MV1000, M1 and Honda V5 RCV on a WSB grid though... cause then, that's MotoGP...

Yeah that's what got me thinking. If these bikes or road versions of these bikes were to race in WSB that would be awesome

When Moto GP goes to 800cc then most of the new factory development will be spent on the 800cc bikes so maybe the 1000cc bikes could be turned into the next generation of road bikes to race in WSB and for us to buy at least I hope so.

Justin Sane · 11-27-2005, 08:45 AM

well for example:

lanzi is managed by one of the flamignis (owner of the series), so he gets the first dibbs at xerox ducati. the first 4 races of 2006 lanzi will be riding the revised 2006 spec 999, while bayliss will have to do with their 2005 left-overs... how cool is that when you're the best ducati rider since fogarty (i actually prefer baysliss...)

PSG-1 didn't have factory backing last year, but Stalker's riding impressed, and they we're offered factory support for 2006. great.
PSG-1 still wantd more financial income, so they let nieto buy his ride. great.
PSG-1 then decided to hire that twat Laconi, using nieto's money, even though Kawasaki Japan told them not to. so kawasaki is now geving their full support to Hawk kawasaki, and PSG-1 isn't getting jack sh*t. bummer.
(i'm a huge stalker fan btw

)

ten kate wanted to get rid of muggas, but muggeridge is the one who's bringing in Winston money... so money rules the roost once again.

these things are from inside the paddock, there are more rumours, but all unconfirmed...

R6PIMP · 11-27-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Redrocket996

Also if Moto GP go down to 800cc maybe WSB bikes will became as fast and as exciting as Moto GP.
Any thoughts?

In two years the 800s will be just as fast as the 990s if not faster. WorldSBK will never come close to MotoGP bikes in terms of sheer acceleration, braking, cornering, etc.

Justin Sane · 11-27-2005, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by R6PIMP
In two years the 800s will be just as fast as the 990s if not faster. WorldSBK will never come close to MotoGP bikes in terms of sheer acceleration, braking, cornering, etc.

i'm sure they'll be just as fast as the current machines from the word go, but i think the reason why they're taking them to 800cc is ****ed up. they want to make the racing slower (not gonna happen) and therefore safer.

let me tell you what you'll see waaay more in 2008: rossi making massive highsides... it has always been his weak point and the peaky nature the 800s will have, won't make things better

i'm sure rossi is off to F1 once he's got the 800cc title, because it's not going to be good for him.

btw, nice move from dorna's mother company, they bought a big share of the F1-holdings, anticipating the popularity rossi brought to motogp will transpire to F1, once he gets there...

hottR1der · 11-27-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane
i'm sure they'll be just as fast as the current machines from the word go, but i think the reason why they're taking them to 800cc is ****ed up. they want to make the racing slower (not gonna happen) and therefore safer.

let me tell you what you'll see waaay more in 2008: rossi making massive highsides... it has always been his weak point and the peaky nature the 800s will have, won't make things better
i'm sure rossi is off to F1 once he's got the 800cc title, because it's not going to be good for him.

btw, nice move from dorna's mother company, they bought a big share of the F1-holdings, anticipating the popularity rossi brought to motogp will transpire to F1, once he gets there...

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane
i'm sure they'll be just as fast as the current machines from the word go, but i think the reason why they're taking them to 800cc is ****ed up. they want to make the racing slower (not gonna happen) and therefore safer.

let me tell you what you'll see waaay more in 2008: rossi making massive highsides... it has always been his weak point and the peaky nature the 800s will have, won't make things better
i'm sure rossi is off to F1 once he's got the 800cc title, because it's not going to be good for him.

btw, nice move from dorna's mother company, they bought a big share of the F1-holdings, anticipating the popularity rossi brought to motogp will transpire to F1, once he gets there...

Yeah I fully agree these bikes are gonna become similar to the dreaded 2 strokes. I'm not sure how well Colin Edwards will do either?

Justin Sane · 11-27-2005, 09:32 AM

hmmm, edwards... gonna have a hard time i guess.

he's too smooth to ride the bike like say David Jeffries used to ride, completely manipulating it's movement. but he's too much of a physical rider to let the bike steer itself, 250-style...

he's one of the guys that's gonna fall right into the gap i guess. like checa, and those other old farts (biaggi and capirossi excluded) though it remains to be seen wether tose guys will still have rides by that time...

btw, i think vermeulen might have made a good decision going to suz'... they've always had smooth chassis and that should enable him to be the best of the SBK riders... and surely suzuki must have convinced him they had a good 800cc engine, or he wouldn't have turned down the rcv ride...

Valerossi · 11-27-2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane
i'm sure they'll be just as fast as the current machines from the word go, but i think the reason why they're taking them to 800cc is ****ed up. they want to make the racing slower (not gonna happen) and therefore safer.

let me tell you what you'll see waaay more in 2008: rossi making massive highsides... it has always been his weak point and the peaky nature the 800s will have, won't make things better
i'm sure rossi is off to F1 once he's got the 800cc title, because it's not going to be good for him.

Honestly, I don't think making them to 800cc is f**ked up... cause this is actually a way to push the technology and engineers to break the rules again... this is just like F1... apply all the new rules you want, grooved tires, heavier car, smaller engine, etc., but yet each year we still see a better lap time for these cars...

Like R6PIMP stated, these new 800cc machines will be just as fast or even faster...

Why you think 800cc won't do good for Rossi? Sure he did have a few highsides on the 500cc machine, but he still did great on it... he got 2nd overall for the first year and won the title the next... honestly, I think peaky 2-stroke riding style is actually good for him cause he did do great in all 125/250/500... plus that's his natural riding style...

Now for Edwards, that's a different story... he knows about 800cc coming soon... this is why you see him trying to adapt a riding style like 250's in the last couple of races... even with the current MotoGP 990cc machine, he said he got a better laptime when he used a 250cc riding style...

Justin Sane · 11-27-2005, 10:48 AM

Val, i'm not saying rossi won't win on the 800cc bikes, sure he will! but have a look at his crashes on the rcv and M1 (and somwhat the nsr...) they're mostly high-sides. that's just his weak point...
rossi can push a bike to its limits and beyond, and for a longer period than his rivals, but the peaky nature the 800s will have will probabely take him too far over that limit more often than he likes...

i think he'll still be the fastest, but i doubt he'll be making podium runs the way he has done up till now on the 4-strokes...

Redrocket996 · 11-27-2005, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane
Val, i'm not saying rossi won't win on the 800cc bikes, sure he will! but have a look at his crashes on the rcv and M1 (and somwhat the nsr...) they're mostly high-sides. that's just his weak point...
rossi can push a bike to its limits and beyond, and for a longer period than his rivals, but the peaky nature the 800s will have will probabely take him too far over that limit more often than he likes...

i think he'll still be the fastest, but i doubt he'll be making podium runs the way he has done up till now on the 4-strokes...

You're very right but once "dialed" into the 800cc power characteristics Rossi should be awesome and probably akin to McCoy at his best. McCoy also had some pretty awful highsides as he could only ride a bike one way and that was on the limit

xdonniedarkox · 11-27-2005, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Justin Sane
i'm sure they'll be just as fast as the current machines from the word go, but i think the reason why they're taking them to 800cc is ****ed up. they want to make the racing slower (not gonna happen) and therefore safer.

let me tell you what you'll see waaay more in 2008: rossi making massive highsides... it has always been his weak point and the peaky nature the 800s will have, won't make things better
i'm sure rossi is off to F1 once he's got the 800cc title, because it's not going to be good for him.

btw, nice move from dorna's mother company, they bought a big share of the F1-holdings, anticipating the popularity rossi brought to motogp will transpire to F1, once he gets there...

MotoGP will get more dangerous... think of them like FX machines but with WAY more power. The mysterious high side we saw little of is going to be coming back. Dorna in F1, I heard this....