Adjusting Air/FuelMix (read it all)

[noordinaryjoe]

The proceedure is the same for 2004 r1's ACCEPT:

You do have to pull the tank up and airbox off to get the the ECU.

The wire you are looking for is the one going to the 38th pin on the ECU - light green in color.

Button proceedure on the dash is the same as previous models.

I have performed this proceedure on my '04 with an EGA.

They started out about 3.5 CO.

I'll let you know how it works on the racetrack this weekend!

Cheers!
-Joe

[tonio]

i try today and it work i did +3 and the starting was smoother and the respond too my initial # was c1 14, c2 15, c3 16, c3 13,

[Mark618]

I did mine over the weekend.

OEM Settings

C1/18
C2/10
C3/10
C4/9.

I bumped it up +2 and felt some improvement, but not enough. Then, I went to +3. Still feels like it needs more, but I'm going to ride it a little more at +3, then let you know.

Mark

[geforcer]

Is this only a Yamaha feature or can it be done on other bikes as well?

[krysdafur]

hi....u guys might want to read this thread.
http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/s...7&page=1&pp=30

this is for a r6, but im pretty sure its the same for the r1.

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New Information

Originally I was under the impression that C1 was cylinder 1, C2 was cylinder 2 and so on; and the reason for the different numbers was due to a staggered pattern often seen in many carbureted bikes. Thanks to a little Yamaha PDF which R6cook was kind enough to send me, we now have the correct information to C1, C2, C3, C4 settings. Someone needs to tell someone on the R1 forum they have it wrong too.

You can download the PDF here

http://www.cappojim.com/uploads/how_...map/04R6GB.pdf

The information is on page 29 (25 if you go by document page numbers.)

Fuel injection Adjustment

Fuel injection amount can be adjusted in the following four ranges:

Code C1: Fuel amount injected at 25% or less of throttle opening and at 3000 rpm or less of engine speed

Code C2: Fuel amount injected at 25% or less of throttle opening and at 3000 rpm or more of engine speed

Code C3: Fuel amount injected at 25% to 90% of throttle opening

Code C4: Fuel amount injected at 90% or more of throttle opening

Before changing the settings, check the engine for its characteristics in normal condition. It is recommended that the settings be checked with an A/F measuring instrument.



Guidelines for setting

Code C1:
At 25% or less of throttle opening and at 3000 rpm or less of engine speed:
This affects the idling stability and the feeling experienced during races. Too rich an air-fuel mixture may foul the spark plugs.

Code C2:
At 25% or less of throttle opening and at 3000 rpm or more of engine
speed:
This affects the feeling experienced during engine braking and at initial
throttle opening. Make a change of 2 to 5% at a time while checking for any resulting changes.

Code C3:
At 25% to 90% of throttle opening:
This affects the feeling experienced at half throttle opening. Make a change of 2 to 5% at a time and check for any resulting changes.

Code C4:
At 90% or more of throttle opening:
This affects the feeling experienced at full throttle. Adjustment to too lean a mixture will lead to engine breakdown. Adjustment by checking the A/F is recommended. In particular, to adjust on the leaner side, make a change of 1 to 2% at a time while checking for the result. 12 to 13 is a targeted A/F.

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[VenomousSVT]

AWESOME INFO!!! thanks krysdafur

[noordinaryjoe]

Has no one else noticed that those are Race Kit instructions for the "race kit' ECU ??? Why would anyone assume those are the same instructions as for the stock ECU...why would you *buy* a race kit ECU for $600 if you could do the same with the stock ECU?!?!?

I'll check with Yamaha to be sure...BUT...I had 4 individual 6mm titanium nuts welded onto my '04 R1 headers so that I could view/trim/adjust each cylinder individually on a gas analyzer with four separate probes.

C1, C2, C3 and C4 all gave cooresponding changes to cylinders 1,2,3 & 4 individually and respectively AT IDLE.

If C3 & C4 were for adjustments to greater than 25% and 90% throttle respectively then they should have had NO effect on idle CO for the numbers 3 & 4 cylinders...but they DID.

Wish I had a dyno right now.....

PS - someone want to bring this back to the R6 forum for consideration??

Cheers!
-Joe

[R1TUCK]

This is getting interesting, who is correct ?

[noordinaryjoe]

well...if *any* of the R6 guys would have run their bike on the dyno with a gas analyzer they could confirm/deny their results...but since they *all* are using the 'butt dyno' ....well I'm sure they all FEEL they got more horsepower! ;-)

Anyway...I know I am correct about the C1, C2, C3 & C4 settings cooresponding directly with CO at idle because I have gone through great expense to be able to MEASURE the effect at each individual header pipe. (titanium welding ain't cheap)

Do they additionally compensate at higher RPM's for the C3 & C4 settings...I couldn't say for sure without an above mentioned dyno...but it seems unlikely that they would serve double duty for such distinctly different functions.

-Joe

[noordinaryjoe]

Here's some data from my bike and adjustments that I've made:

2004 R1 using individual probes from a four-gas analyzer into each header pipe.
(drilling and welding of 6mm flange-nuts onto each header pipe necessary)

stock CO settings:

0 12 4 2

stock gas measurements:

1 3.65 CO 530 HC 13.0 CO2
2 4.12 CO 676 HC 12.4 CO2
3 3.59 CO 590 HC 13.1 CO2
4 3.27 CO 504 HC 12.9 CO2

I went for an arbitrary starting baseline of 4.20 CO for all cylinders and ended up with the following CO settings:

9 13 14 17

basic math then tells me that each 'click' of adjustment is good for about a .06667% change in CO level.

By balancing the CO levels I effectively compensated for variations in the flow/pressures of the fuel injectors by 'telling' the ECM to change the 'duty cycle' or amount of time each injector is left open so that the fuel delivery is effectively the same.

This is a simple way of achieving what Mark from Factory goes into here:

http://www.factorypro.com/products/...lean_match.html

Since the ECU uses this baseline data to calculate fuel delivery throughout the rev range it should stay reasonably balanced from idle to redline. (much like fuel/air mixture screws set the tone for everything that happens in a carb from idle on up) This simply wouldn't be possible without a gas analyzer and individual cylinder probes.

NOW - if I were to add a powercommander, which changes/compensates all cylinders equally, it too would stay balanced because the baseline is pre-set already and the powercommander adjustments just 'stack' on top of the ECU's basic information.

Now...why did I set it to 4.2 CO? that equates to an air/fuel ratio of 12.92:1 - which is a little rich for optimal power, but it gives me nice 'off-idle' power delivery characteristics when cracking open the throttle.

(BTW my bike is exclusively a race bike in a production class where very few non-OEM modifications are allowed..even stock exhaust must be maintained.)

Because I don't have a dyno available I can't 'see' what the ECU is doing to this CO and air/fuel ratio as RPM's increase but I can 'read the plugs' and get a remarkably accurate reading of what's happening in the combustion chamber out on the track. Presumably the richer the baseline the richer it will be at higher RPM's and vise-versa - but again I don't know by how much because I don't have Yamaha's algorithym, nor do I have a dyno with gas analyzer to map it out on.

At 4.2 CO my plugs still look a bit lean so I'm going to try 5.0 CO (12.63:1 air/fuel ratio) which should be 12 more clicks of adjustment to each cylinder and see if that is enough to carry to the higher RPM's where it gets run at the track...then I'll read the plugs again and see.

When I get as far as I can on my own I will *finally* go to a dyno and fine tune it.

Hope this helps!
-Joe

[oil slick]

I was interested to see somone else state that they did not have to do anything to the wiring to enter CO mode (in the R6 thread I think). I didnt, I posted this before (but I was soon "corrected"!). I have rechecked and I can definitely get in and change the settings without doing anything to the wires. My bike is grey import from Spain and is 02/03 model.

I am surprised someone from Yamaha hasnt (anonymously?) started commenting on all this. (esp if C1 etc refers to cylinder or map position)

I guess the whole storey will slowly come out in this thread anyway....

[VenomousSVT]

this thread is becoming a great source of info for this

[Mark618]

Well, comrades, you'll have to add my name to the "Perenially Confused Persons" list.

1) Until this last round of posts, everyone said that "C" (as in C1, C2, etc.) stood for "Cylinder." Now, the R6 lads are saying that it represents a parameter of adjustment that affects all cylinders. But I notice that the R6 folk are, in effect, making the same adjustment as we are in the sense that they are bumping all the "C"s by the same amount. WTF.

2) So, what is an "SS Kit" and who says adjusting that is the same as adjusting the CO on a stock ECU?

Mark

[hooker52]

tomorow I will have basicly unlimited use of a dyno for a couple of hours. I have already bumped up my settings getting a 2hp increase. (136 thotal hp bone stock) I have recently purchased a rs3 slipon from a fellow fourm member I am sure it will be lean. I am going to do some cruse runs tomorow and measure a/f ratios and play with these settings. I will post the results as soon as I get a chance.

[811Racer]

Wher is a techy when ya need one!

Noordinaryjoe, your explanation makes the most since. What air/fuel ratio do you think would be best for a normal street riding fellow with a full exhaust and aftermarket air filter?

[hooker52]

I did some runs yesterday on the dyno with a/f monitor. I started out at basicly 16:1 after changing c1-c4 settings I was ablet to bring the a/f to 14:1. With about 2 hp increase. I am going to do some runs to day and see If I cant get it down around 13.5:1 but that might be pushing it. I will post all the dyno runs when I am done. krys I am going to experement with your info also. I was looking at the r6ss booklet and they say you can advance and retard the ign. I tried on my r1 and could not get past the d60 00 screen I bet you can get into it some how. That would be a great way to pick up a couple of H.P. It has somthing to do with the rsk switch (run stop kill) I am going to look at a couple of wiring diag. and see what I can come up with. This is getting good. Who needs a $400.00 pc3r when you have the R1 fourm.

[krysdafur]

hooker......so from ur dyno runs, do u conclude taht c1-c4 stands for cylinders 1-4?
also, what kinda change did u do to the settings to get to ur 14:1???

[Mark618]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by need to speed
[B]well i tried it,like they describe and it was very easy, mine was set at #1,12 #2,16 #3,10 # 4,12.i went up plus 2 on all of them. its pretty cool cause you can here it switching to each one as you go.



All due respect to the folks who posted the info re the R6 SS Kit, but I am not at all convinced that the CO adjustment does anything other than modify the air/fuel mix at just off idle. Blind and ignorant though I may be, I continue in the belief that, on the stock ECU with the yellow/red wire grounded, the CO dialog box leads to adjustments where "C1," etc., means "Cylinder 1," etc.

I would like to hear, if possible, from guys with V-twin Yamahas and stock ECUs who have done this adjustment. If, under the same conditions, their dialog window shows C1 and C2, but no C3 and C4, then we know that "C" equals "cylinder." (Well, _maybe_ we know it. Or maybe the V-twin ECU is entirely different. I don't know.)

Today, I rode my otherwise stock '03 R1 with the CO bumped +3. Conditions were hot and dry. My coolant temp reading was rarely below 200. I felt there was better air/fuel mix (less starved for fuel) at just off idle. I cannot say with certainty that I noticed any improved horsepower, etc. However, in terms of rideability (which is why I got into this in the first place), I thought the throttle response was more snatchy, which makes sense, I guess.

Also, I regret to report that I did not notice that starting was any easier (an issue that I had hoped would see improvement), although I thought I noticed blue smoke (very, very little) out of the exhaust upon start up.

Please, continue to report.

Best,

Mark

P.S. All I know is what I have gleaned from various unreliable sources and the bullcrap that I hear at the dealership. But I would like to see some more info regarding this "R6 SS Kit."

[hooker52]

SOrry guys I have not been able to get back on the dyno yet. Sometime this week I will get some more runs I hope. I have bumped my settings up quite a bit like +20 across the band. Very large adjustments. But I can defnitely feel a difrence in throttle response. Akso I had some starting prooblems (always had to crank it twice to get it to start when cold probably a bit lean) now that problem is all gone. once I get the a/f ratio to about 13.1:1 if I can I am going to change all the settings back to stock one by one to see if there are any dips in the a/f ratio. That should let us know if it is a cyl setting or a rpm/throttle pos. setting any test suggestions from you guys will be concidered and reported if I do them.

[r1-superstar]

Originally posted by Mark618
Well, comrades, you'll have to add my name to the "Perenially Confused Persons" list.

1) Until this last round of posts, everyone said that "C" (as in C1, C2, etc.) stood for "Cylinder." Now, the R6 lads are saying that it represents a parameter of adjustment that affects all cylinders. But I notice that the R6 folk are, in effect, making the same adjustment as we are in the sense that they are bumping all the "C"s by the same amount. WTF.

2) So, what is an "SS Kit" and who says adjusting that is the same as adjusting the CO on a stock ECU?

Mark

As per the Yamaha Service Manual, the letter "c" denotes which cylinder you are trying to adjust (section 3, page 20). I do believe that the two bikes (R1 & R6) may have different ECUs, adjustments, and settings.

Edit: But we will never know for sure unless someone leaks out the correct info.