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Old 03-17-2009, 05:05 PM   #1
BLACK ICE R1
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Unhappy 2nd Gear Problems

I have a 99 R1. Heres my latest problem. All of my shifting works fine, its second gear that seems to have come up with a new problem. After I shift into second and start going and decide to start giving it a little, around 5 or 6 thousand rpms, it feels like a real quick slip and then ot grabs like all hell is breaking loose. Its almost like pulling the clutch in and popping it all in the mateer of about a second or two. So far, no other gears do this. Its kinda freaky cause if I get on it enough it will pull the front up way to fast. I am looking for any ideas on what could be the cause of this. Please help! AHHHHH!!!
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Old 03-17-2009, 05:11 PM   #2
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The dogs are rounded off.







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Old 03-17-2009, 05:14 PM   #3
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yep, 2nd gear is worn. replace it. it's common on r1s.
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:02 AM   #4
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Talking Thanks

Thanks! Do you know if there is an upgrade for this?
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:03 AM   #5
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Where did you get that bad ass CLOWN!?!?!?!?!?!
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:09 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK ICE R1 View Post
Thanks! Do you know if there is an upgrade for this?
no there isn't really.... you can try back cutting the gear dogs and that may help, but it will also make it slightly harder shifting into and out of second (but not much)

prevalent in the 98-01 models, the 02-03's get it regularly but it doesn't seem like as much and Yamaha finally pulled it's finger out in 04 and moved from a 3 gear dog design to a 5 gear dog design that fixed the majority of the problem (also happens in early model r6's)
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Old 03-18-2009, 06:48 AM   #7
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im so scared of this happening to me
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:12 PM   #8
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My buddy has the same problem on his 01.... Is it spendy to fix? how much $$$,how much time?? Better yet is it worth it???
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Old 03-20-2009, 01:24 PM   #9
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if you DIY it's not so bad. two or three hundred i believe. CDN$$. but if you go to the dealer you might as well just buy a new engine.. i think my quote for the r6 was $2300 to see what was wrong! there are write-ups around that would help a bunch if you wanted to do it, but it takes awhile, i'm sure.
I left the r6 alone for now, but i think it would be worth it if it was your only ride/your baby. i can't imagine living without cracking on second gear

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Old 03-23-2009, 12:38 PM   #10
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thanks for the info! J-Seekz
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Old 03-24-2009, 12:23 PM   #11
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Hello All!

My 2000 starting popping out in 2nd around 13,000 miles. I tried to ignore it... but it just kept getting worse. I ended up tearing down the engine and having all the gears undercut by R&D Motorsports in Clearwater, FL. The bike shifts amazing and it not hard to get into any gears... always quick, smooth, and solid! You'll never miss a gear again!

Granted... this is the most expensive option, but it?s also the best IMO! New bikes these days all come with a small degree of undercutting, but it?s nothing compared to the amount that R&D will do. All professional road racing and drag bikes have this process done. It ensures positive gear engagement every time!

In 2007, the undercutting cost me right around $750, plus all the gaskets and whatnot that you need to rebuild the engine. I ended up sending my head out for overhaul, added exhaust, jet kit, clutch conversion, & AIS block-off at the same time... So, I was upward $2200 when it was all said and done! But hey... you got to pay to play!

Call R&D Motorsports and talk to Mark. He is very very knowledgeable on these R1 trannys and will take the time to explain the process to you!

Do a search; there are hundreds of threads on the 2nd gear pop out issue.

But, if you keep pushing like it is and you'll eventually lose the whole gear? or worse!
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:54 PM   #12
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has anyone actually had this happen? like lose the whole gear for neglecting it? what if you never pushed it in second? i'm trying to just get out of the gear early, or roll on slowly to avoid the problem, for now. i doubt i would put another 750USD into the tranny. not on the r6 anyway...
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Old 03-24-2009, 01:55 PM   #13
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great picture, by the way.
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Old 03-24-2009, 02:27 PM   #14
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When 2nd gear "pops-out", the #2 and #6 gear?s engagement dogs ratchet from one set to the next. During this action, the gears slightly separate from each other (hence rounding the edges during the slip and progressively making it worse each time). When they separate, there prying against the shift fork and therefore the shift rods as well.

Repeating this action over and over just continues to wear away and weaken the components. Eventually something has to give, weather it?s the shift fork or one of the engagement dogs. When this happens, the pieces have to go somewhere? and I can almost guarantee you?re not going to like it!

Sure, you could take it easy in that gear? But what?s the fun in that!?! First and second are the best gears! I tried this approach at first? but the problem just continues to get worse and more frequent at lower rpms.

Undercutting the gears isn?t your only option. You can buy new gears and forks and just replace them for much less, but the problem is just going to happen again in time?

Also, you can always search for a used tranny gears or a low mile engine from a wrecked bike and swap them. But, that in itself has its own possible issues.
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Old 03-24-2009, 06:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK ICE R1 View Post
Thanks! Do you know if there is an upgrade for this?

yes there is an upgrade, its called race(deeper) shims, it makes the gears engauge deeper

i just got done doing this to my bike(an 02 R1, the precedure is the same)... its not too bad... the worst part is you have to pull the engine...

I would do it for someone for about $350 labor and around $150 in parts(worst case senario, usually closer to $30 in parts)

I would br willing to do a write up in the how to section if needed
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Old 03-24-2009, 07:01 PM   #16
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yes there is an upgrade, its called race(deeper) shims, it makes the gears engauge deeper
I never heard of this. I'm interested in reading up on this. If you would, please provide more info. Perhaps a website were they can be purchased?

Between each gear is a washer and a circlip. Where would the shim go... in place of or along with the washer? Im not sure how this would fix the existing flaw in the engagement dogs from the factory. It sounds more like a band aid as opposed to a true fix or upgrade...

Would really appreciate some info to back up your claims... I'm not trying to be a dick or anything... just curious??
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:22 PM   #17
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Between each gear is a washer and a circlip.

thats where they go actually
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Old 03-24-2009, 09:26 PM   #18
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its just thicker washers really

its what guys do to the transmission for built race bikes, its a very common practice on several different bikes, the 'science' behind it is sound, make the gears engauge deeper and they last longer

if you do the thicker washers('shims') and undercut the gears you end up with a nearly bullet proof transmission, but i can tell you the gear shifting if a little rough
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:16 PM   #19
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R&D does great work. never had any issues racing after they did tranny for me. i cant honestly say putting shim in tranny would help alot... problem is... u miss gear just once.. the corner of dogs can get hit and damaged. undercutting puts angle on two dogs so they line up together and not just square. they cant come out. it makes much better. shimming just makes it go into gear little further..but if stock stuff further may not be more than .001 more or so. still doesnt help once u miss gear few times and do damage.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:32 PM   #20
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R&D does great work. never had any issues racing after they did tranny for me. i cant honestly say putting shim in tranny would help alot... problem is... u miss gear just once.. the corner of dogs can get hit and damaged. undercutting puts angle on two dogs so they line up together and not just square. they cant come out. it makes much better. shimming just makes it go into gear little further..but if stock stuff further may not be more than .001 more or so. still doesnt help once u miss gear few times and do damage.

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