09 R1 jumped time...pos CCT (pic)

[EDR-R1.1]

i know a LOT of talk about the shitty cam chain tensioners...and most know i do a lot of engines so i thought i'd show a pic of one that failed on a 2009 R1..

here is one a kid brought into us that was bone stock, 1,200 miles on it...riding it on the freeway...downshifting off ramp (he races too and is not an idiot/hard on bikes) downshifted to 2nd coming to the stop and "clack clack" shut her off...brought to us, we heard it and stopped INSTANTLY...pulled valve cover (again new never touched bike) and the intake cam was 2 teeth forward from stock!

We were gonna build his bike anyways for racing, so now we just started it a few months early....but here is proof the tensioners do not work well...

Pulled head and here's your proof yamaha... sucks.

(yes its a mess...this was the second we pulled head off to show customer)



So come on Jay @APE finish up those tensioners!

[triplex76]

mmmm...it doesn't seem a 09 r1 motor at all is it a joke?

[R1Fast]

Originally Posted by triplex76

mmmm...it doesn't seem a 09 r1 motor at all is it a joke?

That's one nasty looking block for only 1200 miles.

[strat1701]

I'm not the expert on engines, but isn't the cam chain teeth assembly you speak of on the right side of the engine? When I replaced my right side cover I could clearly see the teeth wheels and cam chain assembly, and the CCT is also on that side. This pic looks like a leaky head seal or something.

[z06boy]

[Dark_]

Originally Posted by strat1701

I'm not the expert on engines, but isn't the cam chain teeth assembly you speak of on the right side of the engine? When I replaced my right side cover I could clearly see the teeth wheels and cam chain assembly, and the CCT is also on that side. This pic looks like a leaky head seal or something.

The oil is from removing the head, not from a leaking seal.

The key points in this photo are the intake valve indentations left on the pistons.

The image is of an 09 R1 engine.

[Zircon]

Originally Posted by triplex76

mmmm...it doesn't seem a 09 r1 motor at all is it a joke?

It is a 09 engine for sure. However, as R1Fast said, it doesn't look low mileage at all.

[EDR-R1.1]

wow..umm ok guys...

ok TripleX76: your kidding right? the biggest obvious sign first is the head gasket stamping showing you the model, or the placement of the starter motor, or the massive case ribbing for strength the new R1 has or the fact the pistons are in crossplane order, etc, etc...


R1fast: thats what they look like when you run pump gas and ride in winter. Again we were stripping/building entire bike and we wanted to get it apart asap to see what was wrong. Ill post pics of the bike/engine when done...you wont recognize it. most engines look like this when we get them, filthy. i wish it wasnt that way trust me.

Strat701: im confused at what your asking about the chain and such, yesss they are on the right side of engine as is this ones...the oil is always like that on a R1 engine when you pull the head. The oil even thou drained from the engine will pool up in the valve buckets, head nut pockets, etc and when you remove head, it goes all over. typically its cleaned, but i wanted to take a pic for him AS it was when the head first came off. If you look between the cylinder bores (where a head gasket would typically be blown) his is fine.

also, i know the owner and how he rides, he was not abusing it, nor downshifting from 6th to 1st at 140mph...lol. If that was the case he'd have some seriously bent valves, yes he needs new ones, but if you have ever seen an engine that snapped a cam chain or was seriously over rev'd then you would know it looks a lot worse than this. The new R1 runs only about 1.1~1.2mm ptv on the intake side stock so jumping a tooth forward is all it takes for the valves to start tapping the pistons like this one did on all 8, not just 1 or 2. This one jumped time, period.

Im a huge R1 fan, i even own one myself (09) that is my 6th R1, but the fact is sometimes manfucatures make shitty components and this is one on the new R1. GSXR, ZX, CBR's all have their own issues as well. Im not picking on the R1, just that i saw a TON of talk about them and thought i'd post a pic of what happens when the tensioner fails.

Like Z06boy says opcorn

[EDR-R1.1]

ill power up the dash today and double check miles, again i was going off what i thought he told me, but yes IF they are ridden in a town that gets a ton of snow and they use salt (we use rock up here in portland) they typically look like absolute crap.

[Thors Hammer]

Originally Posted by EDR-R1.1

wow..umm ok guys...

ok TripleX76: your kidding right? the biggest obvious sign first is the head gasket stamping showing you the model, or the placement of the starter motor, or the massive case ribbing for strength the new R1 has or the fact the pistons are in crossplane order, etc, etc...


R1fast: thats what they look like when you run pump gas and ride in winter. Again we were stripping/building entire bike and we wanted to get it apart asap to see what was wrong. Ill post pics of the bike/engine when done...you wont recognize it. most engines look like this when we get them, filthy. i wish it wasnt that way trust me.

Strat701: im confused at what your asking about the chain and such, yesss they are on the right side of engine as is this ones...the oil is always like that on a R1 engine when you pull the head. The oil even thou drained from the engine will pool up in the valve buckets, head nut pockets, etc and when you remove head, it goes all over. typically its cleaned, but i wanted to take a pic for him AS it was when the head first came off. If you look between the cylinder bores (where a head gasket would typically be blown) his is fine.

also, i know the owner and how he rides, he was not abusing it, nor downshifting from 6th to 1st at 140mph...lol. If that was the case he'd have some seriously bent valves, yes he needs new ones, but if you have ever seen an engine that snapped a cam chain or was seriously over rev'd then you would know it looks a lot worse than this. The new R1 runs only about 1.1~1.2mm ptv on the intake side stock so jumping a tooth forward is all it takes for the valves to start tapping the pistons like this one did on all 8, not just 1 or 2. This one jumped time, period.

Im a huge R1 fan, i even own one myself (09) that is my 6th R1, but the fact is sometimes manfucatures make shitty components and this is one on the new R1. GSXR, ZX, CBR's all have their own issues as well. Im not picking on the R1, just that i saw a TON of talk about them and thought i'd post a pic of what happens when the tensioner fails.

Like Z06boy says opcorn

Looks like it to me.

Makes me wonder about all the people saying to ignore it, saying theres not a problem. Kinda like suggesting one bury their head in the sand. Mine didnt do it until after several thousand miles, then it started sounding like a rattle can of paint. Something changed to cause it to start making noise it wasnt making before. I have since sold it, gonna risk my money on a Bemmer.

[OptimoPrime]

did the owner not have a warranty thru yamaha??

[chaveezy]

Hmm, so the real question is, what can we do to prevent THIS from happening to us?

[Socal_av_r6]

heres my 09 with a bad cam chain tensioner

[chaveezy]

So is the clacking at startup the valves interfering or is this just the tensioner pressurizing like Yamaha has led us to believe? How will you know if this has or IS happening to your bike. I have 5400 miles on my 09 with just the clacking at startup or so I think...

[sanaga]

im glad i have sold mine.....

[raidon]

are these standard yamaha CCT,s unbolt old one bolt on new one process i have never had to do it before
im getting chain rattle wondering now i should change CCT

[Twiztidr1]

Originally Posted by chaveezy

So is the clacking at startup the valves interfering or is this just the tensioner pressurizing like Yamaha has led us to believe? How will you know if this has or IS happening to your bike. I have 5400 miles on my 09 with just the clacking at startup or so I think...

You know after thinking about what you said here, you may be on to something.
lets think about this for a min.

the tensioner bleeds down, extra slop in the chain is gonna let the cams go out of timing until it pumps back up and the slack is gone, take in how close the tolerances are its very possible the noise is the pistons kissing the valves,

Mine is going into the dealer wednesday, i called today and and asked straight up what is going on with the cam chain tensioners, the tone in his voice said it all.
He did say that some are not having any trouble after the swap, but some are doing it again after a few thousand miles.

Im gonna pick his brain and see what he says about the possibility of what i said at the beginning.

I'll keep you guys posted.

[B'eater]

Originally Posted by sanaga

im glad i have sold mine.....

You've sold every bike you've had. 'Cept for that Harley.

[EDR-R1.1]

Originally Posted by Twiztidr1

You know after thinking about what you said here, you may be on to something.
lets think about this for a min.

the tensioner bleeds down, extra slop in the chain is gonna let the cams go out of timing until it pumps back up and the slack is gone, take in how close the tolerances are its very possible the noise is the pistons kissing the valves,

Mine is going into the dealer wednesday, i called today and and asked straight up what is going on with the cam chain tensioners, the tone in his voice said it all.
He did say that some are not having any trouble after the swap, but some are doing it again after a few thousand miles.

Im gonna pick his brain and see what he says about the possibility of what i said at the beginning.

I'll keep you guys posted.

no i doubt the valves are "kissing" the pistons even with oil drained out at start up on tensioner. The stock PTV on the intake is 1.1~1.2mm (.043"~.047") and thats PLENTY...hell we run some race engines as tight at .8mm (.031") PTV and they clear just fine at 15,000rpm...so i dont think at tick over (start up/idle) there is interference. I do think they are failing even at normal speeds and then valves are hitting.

as someone that builds over 60 race engines a year i have seen ALL brands have issues....2009 CBR's have a terrible piston design (consume oil) and bad CPS's... 2009 GSXR1000's are eating crankshafts...and the #2 mid shift fork is good for about 3-4 weekends....the ZX10..well the chassis alone is enough to make folks cry...

No bike is perfect...hey anyone seen the new 2010 Aprillia RSV4 with "Rod Insepection Hole" on the front of them??

[Whoopazz1]

damn this is not cool... now I know if I do purchas a 09 and up, it will be with extended warranty...