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Technique & Riding Want to kneescrape? Go faster in corners? Smoother riding? Anything about how to ride goes in here please.

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Old 08-06-2012, 01:11 PM   #1
gnuwolf
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How do you slow down? Downshift first or brake?

Hi guys,

I'm just wondering which is better when trying to slow down to take a corner on a race track?

Downshift first then brake or the other way around?

If downshift first, how much stress does the clutch and gearbox can take?

Thanks.

Cheers!
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:18 PM   #2
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I blip the throttle while downshifting
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #3
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On the brakes last...but that doesn't mean you won't be downshifting as well..just depends how many gears you need to go down, but you will want to be applying brakes to allow for trail braking into the corner.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:46 PM   #4
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On the brakes last...but that doesn't mean you won't be downshifting as well..just depends how many gears you need to go down, but you will want to be applying brakes to allow for trail braking into the corner.
Um, no. Brake like hell while you're downshifting. utilize both braking forces at once. Motor to slow the rear, binders for the front. Blip to get the motor closer to the speed of the tire.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:52 PM   #5
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Um, no. Brake like hell while you're downshifting. utilize both braking forces at once. Motor to slow the rear, binders for the front. Blip to get the motor closer to the speed of the tire.
Thats how I do it,but what do I know.
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Old 08-06-2012, 01:55 PM   #6
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Thats how I do it,but what do I know.
You must be just like me, a know nothing douche nozzle! Weeeeeeee.
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Old 08-06-2012, 02:24 PM   #7
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You must be just like me, a know nothing douche nozzle! Weeeeeeee.
No Track but on the roads I run, I don't use my brakes very much. Since I had the ECU flashed, with the 09 It has just enough engine breaking along with downshifting into the correct gear prior to the curve that most of the time I don't use any brakes.
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Old 08-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #8
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No Track but on the roads I run, I don't use my brakes very much. Since I had the ECU flashed, with the 09 It has just enough engine breaking along with downshifting into the correct gear prior to the curve that most of the time I don't use any brakes.


I'm with you, who needs brakes anyway....? lol
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Old 08-11-2012, 06:23 PM   #9
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On the brakes first (front only), then blip and downshift as many times as required. It is not wise to rely on engine braking to slow down.

Most of my local race/lapping track is ran while in 2nd gear but check out the braking at the ends of the two consecutive straights to see what I mean.

http://youtu.be/qwWMgubUT_0
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Old 08-12-2012, 08:49 AM   #10
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When i brake hard i use both breaks and downshifting a couple or 3 gears, but normally use breaks and then downshift to keep the engine from stalling.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:12 PM   #11
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I assume your talking about a straight into a slow corner. How can you downshift if you're near max revs like you should be if your going 10/10ths? Brake like hell and blip to match revs on the way down is the simplest way i can put it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #12
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I think it will depend of your speed before entering the corner . Personally I do think that i caress the brake more often than shifting down first specially in fast corners . Why ? simple you are always trying to drift a bit while maintaining stability and cornering speed . One of the best way to do it is to slow the front end just a little bit more than the rear before shifting it down and get the rear wheel spinning slightly on the gas. At very low speed you just shift down as you make sure there will be no issue with your transmission .
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:50 PM   #13
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So I've always wondered, does engine breaking put a lot of stress on your engine over the years? Just was always curious, I do it regardless because it feels so natural to do..
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:16 PM   #14
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I don't ride my bike on the track, but if I did, I would brake, blip and downshift all simultaneously.

The purpose of blipping (as was already mentioned) is to match the wheel speed with the engine speed, as to not lock up the rear tire. The reason for doing this all simultaneously, is to shorten your braking zone (hense quicker lap times).

Riders that are fast on a closed racing course, brake very, very hard at the end of a fast straight, into a tight, slow corner, all the while they are blipping and downshifting at the same time.

If you're asking this question, (no disrespect) you shouldn't be taking a liter bike out on track. A riding school would also be in order.



Peace.




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Old 08-28-2012, 10:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chop View Post

When i brake hard i use both breaks and downshifting a couple or 3 gears, but normally use breaks and then downshift to keep the engine from stalling.


Yo homie, it's spelled "brakes"






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Old 08-28-2012, 10:42 PM   #16
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brake very, very hard at the end of a fast straight, into a tight, slow corner, all the while they are blipping
It is very difficult to be braking at max and blip the throttle at the same time. Even more to trail off the brakes after lean-in if you're still doing this.

I'm in the downshift and ease the clutch out without blipping while applying brakes with the greatest amount of control camp. Keeping it simple, fewer variables, and it still has the similar effect of helping slow you down.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:36 AM   #17
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I don't track my bike, so I'll take your word for it


I suppose if you braked hard enough before downshifting, the engine speed would be low enough to not lock up the rear.






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Old 08-29-2012, 12:44 AM   #18
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The key to not sliding the tire is easing the clutch out very gently. Make your own slipper by learning this.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:55 AM   #19
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Make sure you are as "one" with the bike as possible and use as much of your ass and legs as possible to anchor yourself to your bike. You should already have your ass a bit to the side in the seat. Dont take all the braking forces with your arms.

Dont SLAM the brakes but squeeze firmly. Just to let the front end suspension take the first hit without bottoming out. After that initial firm squeeze, give the brakes all the pressure you dare to. If you are going in fast, you can probably brake 100% without lifting the rear or overloading the front. Try to keep that hard pressure as long as you can, but as the speed goes down you will have to take a little pressure off the brakes when you feel the rear lift too much or the front loosing traction.

The important part is to brake HARD from the beginning of braking and after that try to only brake less and less to find the correct entry speed for the corner and only have very little braking being done after the turn-in. By braking like this it is easy to feel and use the traction. Adding MORE brake pressure near the end of braking is more risky as you "burn the candle in both ends".

This is a video from one of my track days. The interesting thing is the G-force graphs where you can see exactly how hard I am braking. It might not be 100% in sync but you will get my point.

Go to 6.40 minutes in, that is the longest straight on one of my fastest laps.

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Old 08-29-2012, 09:33 AM   #20
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Brakes or down shift

I hate to state the obvious but one is called brakes and one is a transmission.
Brake pads are easy to replace. Clutch plates are harder and transmissions are even harder and cost a lot more. Lose your front or rear brakes you van limp home. Lose a clutch or tyranny and not going to happen.

I race an R1 powered D-Sport racer in SCCA. I ride a Yamaha Venture. Use the brakes to slow both vehicles. Use the transmissions yo put power on the ground.
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