Installed a PCV. Installation went smoothly. I have my reservations regarding the TPS crimper, but owell. The very first ride I took after installing the PCV, I noticed a flat spot. I have pinpointed, I believe, the area. It appears to be at ~ 4800 to 5200 RPM. Never had an issue prior to the PCV being installed. The flat spot rears its ugly head in gear 2, 3, 4 at least. If you goose the throttle before 4800, you can roll right through the flat spot and never hit it. If you goose it in that range though = significant stutter. This is turning out to be a problem, as when in traffic, bursting inbetween cars, etc., it turns out that 4800 - 5200 is where I usually am. Is this issue merely a matter of going in and smoothing out the map I installed, or is there another more serious issue? The map I use was meant for Yoshi slipons and aftermarket/stock air filter. Thanks in advance for any help!
I'm sure it'll be fine with the Honda, DJR is looking into this as they said so I'd let them square things up. For now I've got a modified downloaded map from their website, just modified the 2% 4-5K RPM fuel table to richen it up and now it's good. Did you block off your smog system? Sounds like it's trying to richen it up because it's sensing a lean condition. Fresh air = simulated lean condition (ie: PAIR/SMOG) and from what I've read at 4500 RPM is right where the YCC stuff is happening also, so what I haven't tried yet is just zeroing everything out at 2 and 5% up to 5K RPM, fuel trims and tables, and just let the Yamaha ECU do it's job as it's programed to do.
The 4-5k rpm has been taken care by the pcv I have on mine for the moment..BUT I have noticed that it does run very rich..as in im smelling it all over the back of my jacket!! the mufflers are pretty darkenned also. Tomorow is dyno day and im getting a tune done to it. Hopefully ill have some answers from the tech. and dyno results (before/after)and ways to deal with the 4-5k rpm without running rich..
yeah keep us posted, im curious to also what the hell is going on. Im tired of smelling like gas and the discoloration on the bike and my jacket, both are turning yellow.
Hey guys is this a problem with the AT only? I have the PCV on my bike now with a full Leo Vince exhaust and a BMC filter. I have not noticed any flat spots. In fact the throttle response improved by installing the PCV vs. the stock fuel settings from the OEM ECU (as recommended by Leo Vince) Im thinking perhaps that I should hold off on getting the AT.
Ok, so im back from the dyno today. Let me say I was pretty damn Happy to see the initial results and ESPECIALLY after results...Ill start a new thread with my results. Just letting you guys know, i did not observe any flat spots between 4-5k since the PCV came back to normal. But rich. I do NOT have AT. Im running less rich but still there. Its alot better now though. check out my results in the new thread.
So it looks like we may have found the issue. We might have a bug in the O2 controller which is causing the bike to go rich randomly.
The problem is NOT with the Auto tune. Since the Auto tune is seeing this invalid data it will basically be chasing its tail. I am waiting for the paperwork to come back so we can ride the bike on the street. Once I have confirmed the issue I would like to send the fix to a couple of you guys and give me some feedback.
So it looks like we may have found the issue. We might have a bug in the O2 controller which is causing the bike to go rich randomly.
The problem is NOT with the Auto tune. Since the Auto tune is seeing this invalid data it will basically be chasing its tail. I am waiting for the paperwork to come back so we can ride the bike on the street. Once I have confirmed the issue I would like to send the fix to a couple of you guys and give me some feedback.
Ah ha, well for now I've zeroed out all the tables at 2 and 5% TPS and up until 6K RPM, this has evidently solved the stuttering problems, at least after 150 miles this weekend. But I don't really see how you guys got those original maps with a screwy 02 controller. Are you saying that basically all of the maps are tuned wrong from your website? The 02 controller is that little black box with the green led light on it and a sticker that reads 63391207? With a better tune there would be a lot better mid-range throttle response especially on tip-in when you're going from 5% to WOT but it catches up with itself pretty fast like it is and we get the benefits of the top end PCV adjustments.
Thanks for the follow-up, at least DynoJet is holding up to their name, good luck with the fix. We'll all be waiting for word I'm sure.
For you guys having this issue I would recommend reconnecting the stock O2 sensor to see how it runs. If you are using the Auto tune then zero out the target tables from 0-15% throttle and up to 5250rpm.
One other note is that this bike does NOT use the O2 sensor in 1st gear. So if you set up the PCV for advanced gear then you will have 6 target tables. You could let it tune your down low area using 1st gear and then have the 0-15% area zeroed out for 2nd-6th.
So I can run one of the maps off your website, and reconnect my o2 sensor and that should take care of the running rich issue. I'm confused. I have the auto tune but it's not hooked up yet.
I just don't see how they got good maps with a screw 02 controller, I'd just zero out the 2 and 5% TPS up to 6K RPM on any map, even the downloadable ones for now until they fix this issue.
I guess some maps will have been written on a dyno without the autotune, if you look at all the available maps there is a big difference in the area we are talking about, some have the 'normal' +/- 5 %, some have big numbers there, my guess is the big numbers were done with the autotune
Since I zero'd out all the 2 and 5% TPS up to 6K RPM on the map I'm using I'm getting way better drivability and getting about 35mpg average now, rather than 27mpg that I was getting before zeroing out the map. I'd say that's a large improvement for a non-performance area, not to mention the jerking and stuttering is completely gone! Still looking for a resolution so I can get it completely custom tuned throughout all the RPM ranges.
I never noticed the "flat" spot everyone has been talking about but I did notice horrible gas milage and the tail of my bike turning black after a long ride. So I hooked the stock O2 back up and zeroed out the map like suggested and went for a long ride. My tail never turned black and I got way better gas mileage.
We're talking about zeroing out everything in the 2 and 5% TPS openings, from 4-6K RPM, this will solve your rich condition issues temporarily until DynoJet Research can fix this permanently.
Well the popping and backfiring should be due to the rich condition and excess fuel in the exhaust. I did install those smog block offs and it did calm the popping down a bit, but it still pops on decel to stop, usually when I'm on the brakes. So it's popping more after zeroing out the lower TPS/RPM tables? Make sure you're not going from 0's to like 18 or something, it needs to be pretty gradual otherwise it's going to be attempting to make huge injector pulse width changes and may cause some weird issues.
Also, are you using a map off of DJR website? And are you using AutoTune? If you are then you'll be wanting to adjust the target AFR's to 0's and not just the fuel tables. Get it? Also you will notice a large increase in fuel mileage, mine was 27mpg, now reading upwards of 35mpg during highway cruise situations.
Well the popping and backfiring should be due to the rich condition and excess fuel in the exhaust. I did install those smog block offs and it did calm the popping down a bit, but it still pops on decel to stop, usually when I'm on the brakes. So it's popping more after zeroing out the lower TPS/RPM tables? Make sure you're not going from 0's to like 18 or something, it needs to be pretty gradual otherwise it's going to be attempting to make huge injector pulse width changes and may cause some weird issues.
Also, are you using a map off of DJR website? And are you using AutoTune? If you are then you'll be wanting to adjust the target AFR's to 0's and not just the fuel tables. Get it? Also you will notice a large increase in fuel mileage, mine was 27mpg, now reading upwards of 35mpg during highway cruise situations.
I did the block offs and am currently not running the auto tune, I have it, its just not installed, clearence issues( see my thread about not happy with leo vince for the story) I am running the yoshi with mid pipe map from dynojets website. Ever since i put the pc on it has run real rich and leaving a yellow film on the whole tail section and you can smell the unburnt fuel. but gas mileage has not been affected to much still around 31 mpg, It was not doing this until the pc install. I havent been able to make the new changes you told me about yesterday. so dont know yet.
thanks again for all your help, keep it coming please.:thumbup
Anyone heard anything from DJR? I posted a thread a while back now 'Just how clever is the 09 ecu' i guess a little cleverer than DJ at the moment, i'm not buying into this 'bug in the o2 controller' I suggest the ecu is outwitting DJ
I wonder if there is any way to 'alter' the signal from the original o2 sensor to trick the ecu into supplying 13.2 AFR instead of 14.7 AFR? it's only a voltage input after all/
the stock O2 sensor only works at part throttle, i.e. cruising speeds, you wouldn't want it to run anything other then 14.7 or you would be wasting gas.
Waiting on some components. I have 2 R1's in here right now waiting for new parts. Hope to be riding this weekend and will post info next week.
Getting around the closed loop area has always been an issue. Some bikes you can simply unplug the O2 sensor. Others we make a simple resistor and it fools the ECU into thinking it is there but does not make changes. Bikes are getting smarter and making it more difficult for us to bypass this. The Ducati has been an issue for many years and we think we finally solved it last week. Many other companies don't even try to develop an O2 eliminator which makes you think, either they don't have a clue or don't give a sh*t. I bet the Ducati O2 controller has already cost us $10k in development which will take a very long time to recover. We could just do like others but we would rather do it right!!!
Waiting on some components. I have 2 R1's in here right now waiting for new parts. Hope to be riding this weekend and will post info next week.
Getting around the closed loop area has always been an issue. Some bikes you can simply unplug the O2 sensor. Others we make a simple resistor and it fools the ECU into thinking it is there but does not make changes. Bikes are getting smarter and making it more difficult for us to bypass this. The Ducati has been an issue for many years and we think we finally solved it last week. Many other companies don't even try to develop an O2 eliminator which makes you think, either they don't have a clue or don't give a sh*t. I bet the Ducati O2 controller has already cost us $10k in development which will take a very long time to recover. We could just do like others but we would rather do it right!!!
Thanks for the update, I know when I swapped Akra's for std slip ons and back again when running without the PC the bike ran like sh*t for 20 minutes or so, as if it was 'moving' the whole fuel map or something, it certainly wasn't just looking at the o2 sensor and adjusting quickly
I don't want to give away all the R&D we have done but the R1 does not use long term fuel trims. If you change closed loop it does not affect open loop.
Here is a test I would like some of you to try. This will only work if you have the bike setup in gear advanced mode. Connect your stock O2 sensor. Copy the values from this image and paste them into your map for gears 2nd-6th. Leave whatever your current map has in this area for first gear or zero it out.
We may have way overestimated how smart we thought the ECU was!! This was only done on the dyno, no street testing yet. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Here is a test I would like some of you to try. This will only work if you have the bike setup in gear advanced mode. Connect your stock O2 sensor. Copy the values from this image and paste them into your map for gears 2nd-6th. Leave whatever your current map has in this area for first gear or zero it out.
We may have way overestimated how smart we thought the ECU was!! This was only done on the dyno, no street testing yet. Any feedback would be appreciated.
Sorry I do not have mine set for advanced gear mode and also the weather is pulling in bad at the moment in the uK so riding days are few and far between.
I did notice today though that the bike was very on/off when picking up the throttle when I was on my way out, and yet on the way back it was very smooth, the temp was 14c at the start and 16c at the finish of the ride, I don't think something (either ecu or o2 controller) like this cold weather
Has anybody done this yet? I was planning on riding tomorrow for a few hours. DJR - what are we looking for with this exactly? More power, gas mileage, ??? I would be willing to do this but I don't think I'm using gear advance mode right now. Let us know.
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