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09 R1 jumped time...pos CCT (pic)

33K views 103 replies 45 participants last post by  Monster R1 
#1 ·
i know a LOT of talk about the shitty cam chain tensioners...and most know i do a lot of engines so i thought i'd show a pic of one that failed on a 2009 R1..

here is one a kid brought into us that was bone stock, 1,200 miles on it...riding it on the freeway...downshifting off ramp (he races too and is not an idiot/hard on bikes) downshifted to 2nd coming to the stop and "clack clack" shut her off...brought to us, we heard it and stopped INSTANTLY...pulled valve cover (again new never touched bike) and the intake cam was 2 teeth forward from stock!

We were gonna build his bike anyways for racing, so now we just started it a few months early....but here is proof the tensioners do not work well...

Pulled head and here's your proof yamaha... sucks.

(yes its a mess...this was the second we pulled head off to show customer)



So come on Jay @APE finish up those tensioners!
 
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#4 ·
I'm not the expert on engines, but isn't the cam chain teeth assembly you speak of on the right side of the engine? When I replaced my right side cover I could clearly see the teeth wheels and cam chain assembly, and the CCT is also on that side. This pic looks like a leaky head seal or something.
 
#5 ·
:corn
 
#8 ·
wow..umm ok guys...

ok TripleX76: your kidding right? the biggest obvious sign first is the head gasket stamping showing you the model, or the placement of the starter motor, or the massive case ribbing for strength the new R1 has or the fact the pistons are in crossplane order, etc, etc...


R1fast: thats what they look like when you run pump gas and ride in winter. Again we were stripping/building entire bike and we wanted to get it apart asap to see what was wrong. Ill post pics of the bike/engine when done...you wont recognize it. most engines look like this when we get them, filthy. i wish it wasnt that way trust me.

Strat701: im confused at what your asking about the chain and such, yesss they are on the right side of engine as is this ones...the oil is always like that on a R1 engine when you pull the head. The oil even thou drained from the engine will pool up in the valve buckets, head nut pockets, etc and when you remove head, it goes all over. typically its cleaned, but i wanted to take a pic for him AS it was when the head first came off. If you look between the cylinder bores (where a head gasket would typically be blown) his is fine.

also, i know the owner and how he rides, he was not abusing it, nor downshifting from 6th to 1st at 140mph...lol. If that was the case he'd have some seriously bent valves, yes he needs new ones, but if you have ever seen an engine that snapped a cam chain or was seriously over rev'd then you would know it looks a lot worse than this. The new R1 runs only about 1.1~1.2mm ptv on the intake side stock so jumping a tooth forward is all it takes for the valves to start tapping the pistons like this one did on all 8, not just 1 or 2. This one jumped time, period.

Im a huge R1 fan, i even own one myself (09) that is my 6th R1, but the fact is sometimes manfucatures make shitty components and this is one on the new R1. GSXR, ZX, CBR's all have their own issues as well. Im not picking on the R1, just that i saw a TON of talk about them and thought i'd post a pic of what happens when the tensioner fails.

Like Z06boy says :popcorn
 
#10 ·
Looks like it to me.

Makes me wonder about all the people saying to ignore it, saying theres not a problem. Kinda like suggesting one bury their head in the sand. Mine didnt do it until after several thousand miles, then it started sounding like a rattle can of paint. Something changed to cause it to start making noise it wasnt making before. I have since sold it, gonna risk my money on a Bemmer.
 
#9 ·
ill power up the dash today and double check miles, again i was going off what i thought he told me, but yes IF they are ridden in a town that gets a ton of snow and they use salt (we use rock up here in portland) they typically look like absolute crap.
 
#11 ·
did the owner not have a warranty thru yamaha??
 
#14 ·
So is the clacking at startup the valves interfering or is this just the tensioner pressurizing like Yamaha has led us to believe? How will you know if this has or IS happening to your bike. I have 5400 miles on my 09 with just the clacking at startup or so I think...
 
#17 ·
So is the clacking at startup the valves interfering or is this just the tensioner pressurizing like Yamaha has led us to believe? How will you know if this has or IS happening to your bike. I have 5400 miles on my 09 with just the clacking at startup or so I think...
You know after thinking about what you said here, you may be on to something.
lets think about this for a min.

the tensioner bleeds down, extra slop in the chain is gonna let the cams go out of timing until it pumps back up and the slack is gone, take in how close the tolerances are its very possible the noise is the pistons kissing the valves,

Mine is going into the dealer wednesday, i called today and and asked straight up what is going on with the cam chain tensioners, the tone in his voice said it all.
He did say that some are not having any trouble after the swap, but some are doing it again after a few thousand miles.

Im gonna pick his brain and see what he says about the possibility of what i said at the beginning.

I'll keep you guys posted.
 
#26 ·
This doesnt concern me all that much... like said before this is twice on how many bikes? If it does happen to my bike, I will have YES fix it for me... So no worries on my end. I am not worried about my case cracking and oil shooting on my 300 dollar pants and 1000 dollar pair of shoes either.
 
#27 ·
It happened twice of just the people that post of this forum, which I'm guessing make up a very small percentage of all R1 owners. I'm sure they're have been more cases that we haven't heard of. Unfortunately, they're probably aren't enough cases for Yamaha to put out a recall on the CCT's :no

A manual tensioner may be my next mod.
 
#28 ·
yep. i dont think its 'panic' attack time guys. I was just posting up what it looks like when your tensioner (on any bike for that matter) fails.

I have one personally and will be replacing with an APE one this week. I have used on over 250 engines and never had an issue with APE ones (except when Jay insist on putting a 14mm loc nut on it and the adjuster head is 5/8" :mad makes it hard to adjust in the bikes frame on some bikes)
 
#29 ·
yep. i dont think its 'panic' attack time guys. I was just posting up what it looks like when your tensioner (on any bike for that matter) fails.

I have one personally and will be replacing with an APE one this week. I have used on over 250 engines and never had an issue with APE ones (except when Jay insist on putting a 14mm loc nut on it and the adjuster head is 5/8" :mad makes it hard to adjust in the bikes frame on some bikes)

well it's good info either way, thanks for posting it up.:fact
 
#30 ·
yeah like i said, i could go on the CBR forum and talk about shitty piston designs, bad CPS...or go on the GSXR site and talk about piston failures on the 05-08 bikes and crank issues on the new 09+ ones... and the kawi forums about well..the chassis alone..but the terrible transmission issues, etc...no bike is perfect. We only hear/see the rare issues but i just wanted to show someone that had not seen what happens, a pic of a failed tensioner.
 
#36 ·
....plus with the crossplane/fire thing going on, I'm not 100% on the 09 R1 :dundun:. I've done CBR's and you have to get it just right. Now if you go and just start cranking on the APE without paying attention you can screw things up good.

I hope someone will post a sticky for their APE/09 R1 install. :sing:
 
#41 ·
I brought mine to the dealership and explained that mine was doing it under normal conditions, not just start up. I was told it is a normal characteristic of the moto gp style motor, it actually says just that on my receipt from when I picked it up. And I posted on here about this when I first got it in september. And theres more examples than just these two with photos. Perhaps certain people haven't been exposed to it yet and they don't understand it because, yes, this engine does make more noise than others, so it's easy to say it's normal, but I feel this is definitely an issue. Only time will tell and I'm sure we'll learn more when this season starts, and the miles start adding up.
 
#43 ·
this is because as the motor is used wear happens all through out the engine,(adjusting valves, tires, fork seals on dirt bikes and of course your clutch). this clicking is because as the cam chain wears against the chain guide(as in all cam chain driven motors), the tensioner must automaticly adjust itself. Now on tensioners their are teeth that keep it tought. These teeth are about 1mm if that apart. I hope you can all see were I am going with this. There is no way for any adjuster to compinsate for this, until it wears a bit more and then clicks to the next position. presto, no more noise, until it has to do it again, and again and again, just like on all cam cam chain tensioners. the reason it may happen at defferent milage is because of how some people ride. now if this realy happened on a new r1 and was a cause of faulty craftsmenship why was a warrenty claim not filed? And this brings me back to the clicking noise, back in the 70's people people would complain of the same thing on all brands, makes and models. the fix for this was simple, go and ride your bike. there is nothing wrong. take care all, and remember to wear your helmet.
 
#44 · (Edited)
If that was the case then when the cam chain is bitch slapping the inside of the cases, that extra notch would be taken up during all that slack especially considering this is no simple spring loaded CCT. It has hydraulic pressure for a REASON!!!

Suggesting not to worry? translation, go bury your head into the sand. :dundun:
 
#45 ·
this is suppose to be a hydro tensioners they self adjust by keeping a constant oil pressure. So some where the pressure is bleeding down to much.
correct? this isnt a mechanical system, right?
 
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