Need Head Machine Shop To Cut Valve Seats - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
My R1 eats me.
 
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Need Head Machine Shop To Cut Valve Seats

I am having trouble finding a good, reliable, reasonably priced machine shop that specializes in motorcycle head work. Specifically I need some valve seats cut. I don't care where the shop is located within the USA, I plan to ship it out anyway from Columbia, SC.

What I have is a Yamaha RX1 snowmobile head ( = R1 motorcycle) from a low-mileage engine (2400 mi) I just overheated, warped a bunch of valves. Seems like many of the seats are leaking in the same place no matter what way the lapped valves are set back in place on them.

Any help finding a reputable shop that knows exactly what they are doing with these 20-valve heads would be greatly appreciated! Thanks. Greg
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 06:07 AM
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KWS motorsports is in SC, they are a machine shop and tuning shop.

https://www.kwsmotorsports.com/

Ask for Kevin or Michael.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-14-2019, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks so much! I was getting ready to ship it up to Millenium Technology in Wisconsin.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 08:11 PM
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KWS motorsports is in SC, they are a machine shop and tuning shop.

https://www.kwsmotorsports.com/

Ask for Kevin or Michael.
do those guys do 'undercutting', aka gearbox work?

2009 YZF-R1 xPlanker
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DJ PCV, AT200 & POD300, LV EVOII SBK/ARROW SS HEADER, GRAVES STACKS & AIS remove, GYTR air, ECUnleashed, SHORAI, YOYODYNE sc
HINSON Billet bskt, Barnett CF stack, ASV clutch perch, RK520, JT 15T/44T, Lithtech adjust, ANNITORI RL, CLEVER WOLF CF tank cover, RIZOMA
grips, APEX risers, CRG Arrows GYTR, SHOGUN sliders, GBR covers, GYTR db, Watsens, 6000k HID, RACETECH springs, RACETECH G3-LD, OHLINs FPK
CL SBK5/RX3, HEL SS lines, Accossato Radial 19x18, Motodynamic
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2019, 11:41 PM
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I would never deal with Millennium again after the butchery they did and lied about. Kws is better and Millennium links their name to kws saying they cnc port off kws designed specs but they dont. Send it direct to kws. As for undercutting ape has been doing it for so long it's hard to throw a rock and not hit someone who has dealt with them and I can't remember a complaint except maybe time it took to get work done but that's to be expected when your busy.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 06:23 AM
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do those guys do 'undercutting', aka gearbox work?
They sub contract that out to a different shop (had my stuff done recently).
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 06:24 AM
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And just a heads up OP, KWS is super busy right now. So hope you got your patience pants on.


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 01:54 PM
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There’s always EDR in Oregon

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 02:01 PM
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There’s always EDR in Oregon
Lyons technical machine is where I would send it if I was going to mail it to Oregon. I just had 2 heads ported one of which was repaired after Millennium had it. Lightened and edged my cranks with some polishing. Did all my balancing and made special wrist pins to match up with the new pistons. Beautiful work you can find them on Facebook. They are right down the street from EDR and I believe they do a large portion of EDR's machining.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-20-2019, 06:57 PM
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They sub contract that out to a different shop (had my stuff done recently).
thats why i asked.. i remember you mentioning them but i dont see any info in regards to it on their site. figured they'd shop that out.

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Originally Posted by andrewstclair View Post
As for undercutting ape has been doing it for so long it's hard to throw a rock and not hit someone who has dealt with them and I can't remember a complaint except maybe time it took to get work done but that's to be expected when your busy.
yep i contacted them again and i did eventually get a quick reply.. it just said "yes we 'still' do undercutting"..

that was that, when asked more info regarding the R1 i got no response at all.

it seems that side of the company does not provide the same customer experience the rest of APE offers.

just rubs me the wrong way, company I work for is busy as well, we still respond to customers inquiries

i was hoping to gauge turn around time but if they cant even bother responding to the original request, then

2009 YZF-R1 xPlanker
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DJ PCV, AT200 & POD300, LV EVOII SBK/ARROW SS HEADER, GRAVES STACKS & AIS remove, GYTR air, ECUnleashed, SHORAI, YOYODYNE sc
HINSON Billet bskt, Barnett CF stack, ASV clutch perch, RK520, JT 15T/44T, Lithtech adjust, ANNITORI RL, CLEVER WOLF CF tank cover, RIZOMA
grips, APEX risers, CRG Arrows GYTR, SHOGUN sliders, GBR covers, GYTR db, Watsens, 6000k HID, RACETECH springs, RACETECH G3-LD, OHLINs FPK
CL SBK5/RX3, HEL SS lines, Accossato Radial 19x18, Motodynamic

Last edited by bacchus40; 06-20-2019 at 07:12 PM.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-22-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post
thats why i asked.. i remember you mentioning them but i dont see any info in regards to it on their site. figured they'd shop that out.



yep i contacted them again and i did eventually get a quick reply.. it just said "yes we 'still' do undercutting"..

that was that, when asked more info regarding the R1 i got no response at all.

it seems that side of the company does not provide the same customer experience the rest of APE offers.

just rubs me the wrong way, company I work for is busy as well, we still respond to customers inquiries

i was hoping to gauge turn around time but if they cant even bother responding to the original request, then
keep in mind they have been doing it forever and are still at it and I'm sure they get 30 people a day calling and asking about it but because it involves taking the motor apart most people don't actually send it in they just waste their time on the phone. i hear where you are coming from though. what did you wanna ask them about just if they do it or was there more to it? you may only wanna cut the first 3 gears the rest don't usually have issues.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 12:13 PM
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well there you go, those are details i've never even heard of though i' guess its somewhat logical.

the thing is im' looking at 61k kms and i'm sure there will be parts worn etc which should be replaced.
wanted a little insight to see what i'm getting into. Of course it would involve getting OEM parts
which I dont know if i can supply directly, i can feel 2nd gear will likely have some damage to it.

also in terms of ceramic bearings is this something that can be taken care of while they do the work?
or are the bearings on a different shaft and something i would have to do at the shop regardless?

i like to be prepared when taking on this type of work as once the gearbox is sent all i've got is an
engine that needs bot be put back together. I dont like to bite off more than i can chew with these things

but i also dont want my gearbox to be sitting on a shops bench for 3 months waiting on parts, etc.

i guess mechanic shops dont like to communicate with owners, thats something i did not expect.
I mean if i'm contacting an EXPERT shop its because I would like to have this done right. So you're
saying i need to figure out the details from a bike forum and hope my particular gearbox doesnt
need major work? im' in Canada, this complicates things further as you are aware.


completely unrelated here but my father recently went through a shitty experience with a shop
down in California. We (which means me!) were aware his Honda ECU may not be as easy to just
send in and get re-flashed and bob's your uncle. When i tried to send them details they did not
seem to think it was important. They literally said just send it to us and we will take care of it,
you'll have it back in 3 days. I doubted that very much but dad was taking a trip to the area
anyway so he took his ecu in personally. The dude apparently put it on a shelf and did not even
bother calling back within 72 hours.. I was 100% correct and they were not able to carry out the
work, it should have been sent to the main shop down in LA for them to look at. Dad almost
left it with them to take care of but suddenly this meant he extra time, shipping charges and he
would be flying back with no ecu and we had no clue how long it would take after, nor if they
could do the work period.

alas, a complete waste of fvcking time. the ecu work never got done and dad came home with
his stock ecu.. we tried to tune it without but its obvious we will have to bite the bullet and have
to send it in anyway. its now a fvcking year later.. that pisses me off to no end. shady work
and shady business goes hand in hand. Others often chime in way after the fact with an "i told you so",
probably should have called them ahead of time and gotten things straight.. Well in this case I tried
for fvck sakes, even sent pictures and details over email at least a month ahead! meant nothing to them.


the last thing i need is for a shop to turn around once my shit is on the bench and tell me
oh, you've got an 09 R!.. ohh no we are going to need this, that or whatever before we even touch it.



i know the deal, busy shops get a pass because they're busy. and maybe its all good and nothing will
come of it, but i know for a fact the 09 R1 had some parts that would rub over time and require
replacement. It would be nice to get an idea from the shop thats going to do the work.

Mongoose machining had absolutely no problem with me walking in off the street and answering
my questions, i knew what the costs would be way ahead of time and when they recommended
i do this or that on top i was fine with it! they were very straight with me and i'm happy with the
results. I would not hesitate to recommend.

with this gearbox work though, its like pulling fvcking teeth. is it some dark voodoo magic?

2009 YZF-R1 xPlanker
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DJ PCV, AT200 & POD300, LV EVOII SBK/ARROW SS HEADER, GRAVES STACKS & AIS remove, GYTR air, ECUnleashed, SHORAI, YOYODYNE sc
HINSON Billet bskt, Barnett CF stack, ASV clutch perch, RK520, JT 15T/44T, Lithtech adjust, ANNITORI RL, CLEVER WOLF CF tank cover, RIZOMA
grips, APEX risers, CRG Arrows GYTR, SHOGUN sliders, GBR covers, GYTR db, Watsens, 6000k HID, RACETECH springs, RACETECH G3-LD, OHLINs FPK
CL SBK5/RX3, HEL SS lines, Accossato Radial 19x18, Motodynamic

Last edited by bacchus40; 06-23-2019 at 12:36 PM.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-23-2019, 12:59 PM
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I will guarantee you that Mongoose is not nearly as busy as they are and mongoose is a good machine shop for Canada but nothing special in terms of the work you can get done int he states by a good shop. Of course they have time it's a much smaller shop dealing with a smaller population where you need that one on one with some customers.

If your transmission isn't having shifting issues then you almost guaranteed won't need to replace any gears. Yes they wear over time but it isn't the gears themselves it's the interlocking cogs on the side they round off. If your shifting is fine or even if it's messed up a bit then the undercutting can be done to used gears and fix it. If your shifting gets really bad before you get around to sending it in then they COULD still fix it BUT it would take too much meat off the cog and you run the risk of diminished reliability so it's better to get a new gear at that point.

The more work you have anyone else do the longer it will take and the more parts you have them order the more you will pay.check your gears if they look ok then send em in. The bearings should be pressed into the cases for I think 2 of them and the other 2 usually pop in and out with the shaft and ape wouldn't be reassembling the shaft that would be you. So take out your bearings and get the numbers off of them and order them up from world wide bearing. They should have them except maybe if there's a specialty bearing with clips or grooves built into it.

Undercutting the gears is easy but it has to be precise other wise all 3 won't connect evenly and your putting extra stress on 1 or 2 and risk it breaking. That's why I would only go to someone who is known and confident.

The washers on the shaft should spin with the shafts so they don't wear but the clips on the shaft they recommend to change while you have it apart so I personally would order those but even that most people don't as long as your not abusive and over stretch the clips taking them off. Check your drum and your forks for excessive wear.

I would look at the gear cogs and see if they are messed up. If you see on you don't like then order a new one and the corresponding pinion off the internet. Call ape say hey I wanna send my trans to you I have it apart now what gears do you recommend I send you and what gears aren't worth doing and how do I send it to you. Mail it off and it'll come back. Leave them to what they do and in the mean time you collect your bearings. When it comes back it's just assembly if your motors done. Japanese shit usually has very good machining tolerances and can just be assembles this isn't like old school Ducati transmissions where they were all custom shimmed from factory.

It just seems like voodoo but what your doing is actually pretty straight forward.

09 R1 black/gold SOLD

2015 R1M 007
2016 R1 Track

Last edited by andrewstclair; 06-23-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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