FTECU Autotune? - Page 7 - Yamaha R1 Forum: YZF-R1 Forums
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post #121 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 06:14 AM
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There's a simple solution, let us flash your ECU and add active tune. We've done that for many people already. It's cheaper than a bench kit or bike side+active tune and I'm inclined to say that no one has more development into their 15-17 R1 flash than us, simply out of necessity or our racers.

An Active Tune style setup for ignition timing would not be wise, aside from knock detection. There's no way it would be able to find optimal timing for power. A dyno is the only tool for something like that.


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post #122 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-22-2016, 07:46 AM
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Hi everyone,

I have some questions about the ActiveTune and hopefully can found out the answers here.

First thing is during my living place got the ridiculous noise regulation, any modification to remove the OEM cat box(link pipe or full exhaust) will have trouble in my place, means I have to stick with the OEM cat.

I got the ActiveTune kit already and will weld a 18 mm x 1.5 bung to the OEM muffler(cat box) for the lumbda sensor, the only option for me is weld it to one of the two pipes which connected to the header pipe, the lumbda need to be placed before the catalytic converter means I can't put it on the output pipe(connected to slip-on), I know that is not idea solution since which only read the gas from 2 cylinders instead of 4, but hopefully it will working even that is not perfectly ideal.


Below are my questions:

Q1. Can I leave the close loop setting on in the FTECU soft?
*Since I need the EXUP enable to keep the noise down and it will need the close loop setting stay on, I tried to disabled the close loop setting and leave the EXUP servo enabled but the dash comes up EXUP faulty code.

Q2. Are the AIS need to turn off?

Q3. Any other options I need to adjust for the ActiveTune?
*Currently I just using the unrestricted EU map and turn the Auto-blipper on.


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post #123 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-26-2016, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SBK Unlimited View Post
There's a simple solution, let us flash your ECU and add active tune. We've done that for many people already. It's cheaper than a bench kit or bike side+active tune and I'm inclined to say that no one has more development into their 15-17 R1 flash than us, simply out of necessity or our racers.
Is your tune locked?

My issue here is that I want to be able to see, and then save or toss the adjustments made by ActiveTune, and I want to do it based on a tune that has already been extensively tested. This is what I have been doing on my Gixxer for years with a powercommander. I appreciate the R&D put into these tunes by SBK,Graves, etc, which is why I've spent thousands of dollars with Graves. I, and most people here, don't have the experience, time, or equipment to do that sort of testing, so we buy your products and use your tunes. I just want to know what the ActiveTune is doing instead of blindly trusting it.
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post #124 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-26-2016, 09:42 PM
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I have the graves map. The active tune is set to live tune. I feel crisper throttle! It works with locked maps....

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post #125 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-26-2016, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 2muchbluE View Post
I have the graves map. The active tune is set to live tune. I feel crisper throttle! It works with locked maps....
I know it works with with locked maps. What it wont do with locked maps is allow you to view and save the trims that ActiveTune makes. Then you can actually see what its doing, and it wont need as large of a correction the next time. Also, what happens if/when the O2 sensor goes bad. You wouldn't know unless you could see the trims its trying to make.

Look at the below PowerCommander screenshots. You have your target AFR, and you have the fuel trim table that shows you how much fuel was added or removed to achieve that target AFR. After every ride, you can review what changes it wants to make, then choose to accept them or not. You cannot do this on the locked tunes with FTECU.
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post #126 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete165 View Post
I know it works with with locked maps. What it wont do with locked maps is allow you to view and save the trims that ActiveTune makes. Then you can actually see what its doing, and it wont need as large of a correction the next time. Also, what happens if/when the O2 sensor goes bad. You wouldn't know unless you could see the trims its trying to make.

Look at the below PowerCommander screenshots. You have your target AFR, and you have the fuel trim table that shows you how much fuel was added or removed to achieve that target AFR. After every ride, you can review what changes it wants to make, then choose to accept them or not. You cannot do this on the locked tunes with FTECU.
I would download and tune the "unrestricted" tune. You have nothing to lose. the unrestricted throttle is progressive, but that can be made 1:1 very easy.

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Last edited by mdallasm; 11-27-2016 at 07:46 AM.
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post #127 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 01:16 PM
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I would download and tune the "unrestricted" tune. You have nothing to lose. the unrestricted throttle is progressive, but that can be made 1:1 very easy.
So I would be willing to try that, but I dont know what I'm doing with it. Plus I'm willing to bet that the Graves and SBK tunes do a lot more than adjust the throttle. This is why I want to use the Graves tune.

Also, I don't know what target AFR's to set on the unrestricted. They'd be guesses unless I threw it on a dyno.
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post #128 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 02:03 PM
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Unrestricted does way more than throttle. use the base AFR settings and you will be fine.

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post #129 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 02:07 PM
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Unrestricted does way more than throttle. use the base AFR settings and you will be fine.
yes, i know it does. What I'm saying is that I, and many others, don't know enough about what to change and how to change it. That's why we use tunes that others have developed and tested.. IE - Graves, SBK.

And I don't want my base settings to be 'fine'. I want settings that have been extensively tested. IE - Graves, SBK.
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Last edited by pete165; 11-27-2016 at 02:09 PM.
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post #130 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
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yes, i know it does. What I'm saying is that I, and many others, don't know enough about what to change and how to change it. That's why we use tunes that others have developed.
don't change anything except the fuel maps with Active Tune.

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post #131 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 02:12 PM
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don't change anything except the fuel maps with Active Tune.
ugh, you're really not helping and don't seem to understand my point.
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post #132 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 02:22 PM
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ugh, you're really not helping and don't seem to understand my point.
Sorry, maybe I don't.

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post #133 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 04:34 PM
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Just get a custom map.....

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post #134 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mdallasm View Post
Sorry, maybe I don't.
I think what Pete is saying is (for clarification), the graves tune has not just adjusted fuel values for their exhaust, but also has maybe. 1:1 throttle, adjusted values for deceleration, and other values besides just the fuel values that Pete likes.

So Pete just wants to keep all those values locked, but be able to "play with the fuelling table" and decide if he wants to apply changes.

He doesn't feel like starting with a completely blank unrestricted tune and building it up to what may never be as good as the graves tune or sbk tune because of the throttle mapping, deceleration values (engine braking), etc.

Hope this clarifies.
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post #135 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 07:09 PM
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Exclamation

Quote:
Originally Posted by yammyduc View Post
I think what Pete is saying is (for clarification), the graves tune has not just adjusted fuel values for their exhaust, but also has maybe. 1:1 throttle, adjusted values for deceleration, and other values besides just the fuel values that Pete likes.

So Pete just wants to keep all those values locked, but be able to "play with the fuelling table" and decide if he wants to apply changes.

He doesn't feel like starting with a completely blank unrestricted tune and building it up to what may never be as good as the graves tune or sbk tune because of the throttle mapping, deceleration values (engine braking), etc.

Hope this clarifies.
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post #136 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 07:20 PM
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pete165,
I hear what you are saying. I'm not sure that sbk, graves will allow us to ever do that. It'd be nice though.
I would start with a total unrestricted map, but my biggest issue is I'm a relative newbie when it comes to what flash tune can really do (example...how much engine braking to I put in), do I adjust ignition timing (or can I even do that), and so on.
I could most certainly learn what to do (with lots of time) but I would be worried I'd adjust something and wreck something as well.
So I guess if all else fails, there is always just live tuning, but that may not really be the answer either.

Maybe a PCV and autotune is still the way to go.
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post #137 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 07:37 PM
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I'm in the same spot as you are Yammy. I thought about going PowerCommander, but i don't know what the target afr numbers are on any of these locked tunes, so i would't know what to set as target AFRs on the powercommander. I'm thinking I may just dump the FTECU all together and go with powercommander or woolich, and have it tuned by my dyno guy. I got far more support going that route on the gixxer.

All we really need is for the trim tables to be unlocked. I wouldn't even care or need to see what the target AFR's are set at. I just want to be able to see, edit, and save the fuel trims that ActiveTune is suggesting. If they could unlock just the trim tables, none of this would be an issue.

Last edited by pete165; 11-27-2016 at 07:41 PM.
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post #138 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-27-2016, 09:37 PM
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Pete,
There are plenty of afr posts about what is best and there are lots of guys with resources and have spent a lot of time tuning. Autotune takes care of most. It wouldn't be perfect for afr unless you go to a dyno anyway or spend tons of time (like tad or Bacchus) and refine and refine until,you are happy. I know Bacchus used a pod 300 dynojet to get good results and really understands afr stuff.

All said, maybe keep graves tune and leave autotune to tune live only. It won't be best, but neither is what we are running right now.
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post #139 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-28-2016, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pete165 View Post
I'm thinking I may just dump the FTECU all together and go with powercommander or woolich, and have it tuned by my dyno guy. I got far more support going that route on the gixxer.

All we really need is for the trim tables to be unlocked.

based on this you are correct, you should dump it all and have PCV tuned on the dyno.

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post #140 of 152 (permalink) Old 11-29-2016, 07:03 PM
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Hi All,

Active Tune and Locked Graves Maps

Graves develops maps specifically to enhance the performance of our exhaust systems. Most customers want a plug a play solution with the ability to install/receive updates when they are available. (IE a new feature like Auto Blip, Active Tune or a new drive by wire map) This is exactly the case with a new feature like Active Tune.

The Base maps we provide are very well refined. Active Tune when run in conjunction with a Graves base map is even better than the standard Graves map. When you show up to a new track and the race gas has different properties or its at sea level or 5000 foot above, Active Tune is an amazing instant tune that you would otherwise need to spend time mapping or just suffer the day with a less than optimized setting. I have tested with this setup on my personal R1 and the FZ 10 and the results are amazing.

The tools and the time required in developing engine/vehicle maps is a sizable investment. Graves does not charge for these maps. For tuners and general enthusiasts that wish to develop maps that they can call their own, FTECU publishes the stock map and an unrestricted map for users to create/modify.

We hope that you understand our position.

Respectfully and Sincerely

Chuck Graves


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