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Thread: Broke my 2016 Engine while cruising??? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-03-2019 12:43 PM
IamLa A quick update. What I though was fixed, was well... kinda. The different TBs made things a little better, but the vibration is still there. She is certainly not as smooth as she was before and this is driven me crazy. So much so that I tried to rechecked the balancing shaft to make sure that I didn't mess that up, when I installed it during the engine rebuild. That was a pain in the ass, as my plan was to drop the oil pan and send a camera up to see if I could get an angle on the 3 dots which show you that the gears on the Balancing shaft and the crank shaft are in the correct position. Well, pulled the pan off (along with the exhaust and all the other crap that has to come off to drop the oil pan) and there was no way a small camera was gonna be able to see what I needed to see, but I was able to see that I still had a chance for confirmation. Ya see Yamaha, in their infinite wisdom, actually put a small window that is accessible, if you remove the RT side timing chain engine cover, that allows you to see the two gears coming together, and I could see this window/hole from the inside of the lower portion of the engine. So my dumb ass did all that work and didn't have too...fk me!! Well, I removed this cover (be careful putting this timing chain cover back on because you don't want to damage the small round oil seal that is attached to the inside of the cover itself) and this allowed me to confirm that the balancing shaft is, in fact, installed correctly. So with that out of the way, I rechecked my valve shims and two of them might have been barely out of spec so I re-shimed them...hindsight they were fine, and on the loose end of the spectrum, because it didn't fix the problem. While doing that I was also able to confirm that my timing chain is on correctly in relation to my cams. I have also ohmed all the injectors and the ignition caps and they all are fine. I even used the diagnostic mode to check to see that the injectors are all firing, which they are. SOOOOOO.

I ordered, and just received today, the Carbtune Pro to double check my throttle bodies sync. Maybe my homemade manometer is an issue. I also ordered two used ignition caps just to make sure that a cap is not going bad on me. This bike certainly is not running as smooth as my 2009. With them sitting right next to each other, you can tell there is certainly a difference at idol and when I ride them, my 09 is so much more smoother.

This is driving me crazy and yes I know I am stubborn, but I might have to actually have a pro look at my bike...damn it!! After this weekend I might have more info. However, I might not be able to get to it because my 17 yr old daughter has a big track meet this week (try to qualify for the Junior Olympics).
06-08-2019 10:26 AM
IamLa I also failed to mention that while taking off the side fairings to swap the throttle Bodies (I take the LF one off and move the ECU, cuz it make it easier to get to the Throttle Position Sensor wires and TB attachment bolts), I finally decided to swap out the lower nose fairing. The one I am referring to is the one at the bottom of the engine by the front wheel that the side fairings attach. The eBay one I got and painted, melted due to exhaust heat. When doing this, I discovered that the middle bolt for the oil cooler wasn't actually attached to the oil cooler. The side bolts were attached, so the oil cooler wasn't going anywhere but it was pressed up against that middle bolt. So I fixed this along with swapping the Throttle Bodies and I swear that damn vibrations could have very well been the oil cooler. Regardless, she is fixed for the most part, but Wow... Just Wow.
06-07-2019 09:19 PM
IamLa Finally a little good news for the my R1. I ended up ordering a used Throttle Bodies off of EBay and just finished installing it, after dealing with a loose ECU Harness wire (which ended up being for the Flashtune Bike side Harness). Starter her up and she seemed better almost immediately. Note to everyone who is considering balancing your throttle bodies, the standard throttle body with the white paint (the one you do not touch even if the good lord tells you..."go ahead it, will be fine, I am god") can be any of the 4 TBs. The one I got off of Ebay has the #3 as the standard Throttle body. and my stock one was the #1 TB. I figured this out by looking closely at all the pics of used TBs on EBAY. Anyway, she is running a lot better, though not perfect as before. She still vibrates, but certainly not as bad and the vibration gets gentler above 7000 RPM, which it didn't before. I tried to balance the TBs, but the #3 (the one on mine that u dont touch) was pulling too much vacuum and I could not balance it compared to the #4 TB. I decided not to mess with it and will probable just live with it for now. Good thing is I can ride her again without being so pissed off.
05-28-2019 05:59 PM
IamLa
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewsta View Post
I had an idle issue on my 15 that would cause some surging at idle - almost like it was about to die. Turns out it was the aftermarket Vortex gas cap that I put on.
Not sure that would be my issue as I don't have an after market cap. I may try to re-flash just to see if there is a kink in the armor.
05-28-2019 10:41 AM
drewsta I had an idle issue on my 15 that would cause some surging at idle - almost like it was about to die. Turns out it was the aftermarket Vortex gas cap that I put on.
05-27-2019 08:29 PM
IamLa Well, took off the Throttle Bodies and cleaned them today, and while they were out on the desk, I matched up the paint marks as best I could on the #1 TB and re-applied some white paint (it put #1 TB @ one full turn out). So I matched that basic starting point to all the other three TB screws and put her back together. Got my manometer all set up and sync them, and I believe she is pretty dang close. Took her for a ride and the vibration is still there above 6000 RPMs, although she seems to be running smoother. I believe she is missing show and and I get the feeling that if she wasn't missing she would be butter smooth. I am now at my max Mech. Level. Have not earned enough Yami Mech credits to continue. Can't level up at this point damn it. As stated, I believe she is missing some how, some way, but I cant fix her. SHIT!! It sure is nice being back on her though, and she is so close to being herself again. Unfortunately I am gonna have to take her somewhere to get her sorted. I will say that she has a lopping idle, which she never had before, so I am still very hopeful that there is an easy fix.


I wanted to thank you guys for all ur input. U have been fantastic. I will let u know what the end result is as soon as I find out.
05-22-2019 12:21 PM
IamLa
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post



not a good idea. the rest of 'em are supposed to sync up to that one. oops!
HaHa...no worries, never once in my life have I stood down from a self created challenge (at least not that I can remember, but I have been hit in the head a lot playing football). Like Jocko would says "...good", when faced with adversity. Now I get to learn that very unique skill of dialing in the TB, like the factory does. I am slowing working on it each night, while trying not to piss my neighborhood off, and she seems to get better each time. I have learned so much thru my mistakes and am very thankful of this opportunity to grind.

Oh and I am not concerned at all with the condition of this engine, now that I have had her apart and have replaced all the bearings and seals. And not for one second have I ever thought about selling this bike. She is still perfect to me.
05-22-2019 07:34 AM
Kangaroo Sad to see Yamaha ****ing up on what used to be a bullet proof design. Can it be that Italian bikes are now the go to models for reliability?
05-21-2019 10:13 PM
ChR1z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooli View Post
This is what caught my eye. Who knows how the previous owner treated the bike?
Exactly - Only 4500 miles - One quarter mile at a time!

Although - seriously now, if it wasn't knocking previously - even slightly, and it just spins a bearing out of no where - that's a bit fishy. Chances are it lost oil pressure for a fraction of a second and that bearing grabbed. Why it did that is the big question. Usually its dirty oil, low oil pressure - things like that.
05-21-2019 08:19 PM
bacchus40 uhmm.. you touched the one cylinder you were not supposed to touch?



not a good idea. the rest of 'em are supposed to sync up to that one. oops!
05-19-2019 01:32 PM
IamLa U maybe correct in that they are only $75 on eBay.
05-19-2019 12:59 PM
Aikuken Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to just get a used throttle body?

Sent from my SM-A305F using Tapatalk
05-19-2019 11:27 AM
IamLa I tried the new four gauge TB syncing tool and quite frankly not impressed. U can dial in the gauges so they don't bounce and it seems like I had to turn the vacuum screw large amounts to get the gauges to move. With my DIY manometer small factions of turns were impactful. After messing with my DYI one more, I am pretty convinced that the vibration is a result of the TB being out of wack. Some of the changes that I am doing are, in fact, smoothing her out. The problem is that I don't seem to be able to balance her fully. Also, I think there is a vacuum leak somewhere because I ran the bike without those four little vacuum caps (by accident) at 6000+RPMs on the street with load, and then ran her the same way with the caps on and there was no difference in the feel at rpm.

Man I must be pissing off my neighbors messing with this loud ass bike. When I finally get her fixed, I will be handing out thank you cards to apologize.

Does anybody know the exact setting of the number one screw on the throttle bodies, the one you're not supposed to move because I moved it a little bit.. before I realized that you weren't supposed to move it. So now I'm in the process of making small incremental resets in the number one screw and in trying to balance the other ones.

Also, I sprayed some carb clean in and around the throttle bodies trying to find the vacuum leak that I think exists, but the engine had no response. Is there a better way to find the vacuum leak. Note: I was all set to use a little propane gas, got a hose taped to the end of my canister so that I could direct apply to those hard to reach places and ran out of propane in my torch...can u believe this shit. I am a series of unfortunate events!!
05-14-2019 06:57 PM
bacchus40 yep, i drop shit while working on the bike. I just try to aim away from the
engine and critical parts of the bike which are hard to reach.

to be honest, this is the reason i pulled the engine out of the bike to do valve check etc.

my excuse was that i was getting headwork done but i'm not crazy like some of the other guys on here.

I took the bike apart and once the engine is ready it will go back in there
05-14-2019 03:52 PM
IamLa
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchus40 View Post


now that is a hell of a story..

if it makes you feel better IamLa, i lost a nut in my Raider S and decided to ride until it dropped. i'm sure it eventually did

then this year i dropped an allen key down the exact same spot!! lucky for moi a long magnet was just right to retrieve it.
I was not about to ride around in hopes it pops up without jamming itself in the middle of the shock


shit happens, i cant believe you found the shim!! thats hilarious

Wow, you have dropsies just like me.

Got her all put back together, and she fired right up. Still sounds rough. I did, however, let her get up to temp while idling and checked the header temps and now they are all balanced. So that is good. I tried hooking up the new Throttle bodies sync tool, but of course the vacuum line it came with is too big, so hopefully I can get to that tonight, after getting the proper vacuum hose.
05-12-2019 07:15 PM
bacchus40

now that is a hell of a story..

if it makes you feel better IamLa, i lost a nut in my Raider S and decided to ride until it dropped. i'm sure it eventually did

then this year i dropped an allen key down the exact same spot!! lucky for moi a long magnet was just right to retrieve it.
I was not about to ride around in hopes it pops up without jamming itself in the middle of the shock


shit happens, i cant believe you found the shim!! thats hilarious
05-12-2019 11:00 AM
Aikuken Hah! That's the best shim save ever. At the worst, I've had to take off the damned head, turn it upside down, and shake it out.

Good thing that your bearings are good and there's no shavings in your oil.

Nice one. You'll get it all sorted for sure.

Sent from my SM-A305F using Tapatalk
05-12-2019 09:28 AM
IamLa Well, I drained the oil... Nothing. The good news is the oil looks clean and perfect... No metal shavings. I ran a magnet thru it as it drained and when it was in the container...so some actual good news in my on going shit show Since, Amazon jacked up the delivery of my skinny magnets, I decided I might as well drop the oil pan, so off went the oil cooler and exhaust, and the the oil pan, after loosening the kick stand. I was praying that damn shim would be there, but of course not... Nothing. However, on the bright side the oil pan looked just as clean as the oil. So that's a win, right. My bike is on two stand, so there is enough room for me to get under her and look up her skirt, so to speak. As she is still pissed at me, I bet she wanted to fall over on me just for shits and giggles. Well from below looking up, there is a 1" square channel that looks to run straight up to the head and gets smaller as it gets closer to the head. This to me looked like the correct location of what I think is that oil drain that the shim fell into (i think), so I shined a light from the top down into that small hole and was able to see some slivers of light from the bottom of the engine. So if the shim did fall in that hole it only has one place to go. Well, without a magnet I decide to shoot some Carb cleaner down that hole, from the top. Two squirts and OH MY FREAKING God... Out pops that dang shim onto my garage floor. YES.

So later today I will start putting her back together.
05-11-2019 12:39 PM
smergy I do enjoy the honesty and the comic relief. We all make mistakes, but it takes some guts to admit it.

Perseverance will pay off. I know it sucks, but if you're going to do it, do it right, or at least as close to right as you can. Perhaps its best to know for sure and try and it get it back out the same way it went in by not leaving it to chance. Once you start moving things around, you could end up worse off than when you started.... or even worse, have no idea where it is. Go with what you know
05-11-2019 12:26 PM
IamLa Well, it goes from bad to worse...haha. Took apart the top of the bike and removed the cam cover. Rechecked the valving shims and the 4 exhaust valves on cylinder 2 and 3 were not within spec. (I somehow messed this up). Okay fine, this might be the reason for the slight vibration...hopefully, right??? I figure if I can get these within spec and do a proper throttle bodies sync (with my new tool I ordered...not the DYI one) hopefully this fixes my girl, cuz she is pissed at me right now. She wont even look at me.

So I started the process, it was late, took her apart, got her all shimmed correctly, and got her all torqued down. Then went to double check the shim spacing and one is way off. OMFG the shim in #2 Exhaust valve on cylinder #3 is not there...must have missed it. Freaking kidding me...it is sitting on the bench. Oh it gets worse...

Note to self: Don't not work on your bike when you are dog ass tired.

So, I re-zip tied the cams, took the cam caps off, went to put the shim in and dropped it into the head...yep. It fell behind the valve spring on exhaust valve #2 (cylinder 3). I saw right where it went, but when I went to retrieve it, it was gone. It fking Houdini'd me. There is a small hole, of course just big enough for a shim, in the head right next to the valve spring and I think it fell into that hole. I believe that is a oil return oil, but I have really no idea. Wow I cant believe this.

My pops has a very small camera used to video rifle bores, so I am gonna send that thing down that hole to see if I can see the shim, and then hopefully retrieve it with a thin magnet. Oh and side note...fking Amazon lost my "same day order" for my thin retrieval magnets...man I want to fights someone right now!!!

My only other option would be to put another shim in that MFKER , tighten everything in the top back down, move the engine parts around just slightly and drop the oil pan.....AND PRAY OUT POPS A SHIM.

Anybody do some shit like this or am I the only man on earth that is a numb-nut.

Just know this, I will not let the bitch beat me!!

Happy mothers day guys.
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