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my genius knows no bounds
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So, some guy you may have heard of, named Dave, has been THE suspension guy for many years now. Dave Moss has somewhere around 20 years experience of tuning. Watch these short vids and you'll get the idea, for those of you that somehow may not know who Dave Moss is. In the third vid, where he explains the adjusters, I think thats my black R1 haha. Check him out on feelthetrack.com, some good stuff there, and maybe throw him some PayPal love while you're there. Nicest guy ever, he should charge more than he does for all the work he does not only for all riders but lately, for those of us on a 15+ R1.

https://youtu.be/U7NA_Alu_HI

https://youtu.be/-tXtCQwgrAI

https://youtu.be/LSG3c5sNEDQ


I brought my bone stock 15R1 (not the M) to Dave Moss at Buttonwillow on March 19, and let him keep it until April 3, so he can wring it's neck and determine what it needs, to start. The gameplan is this.. Dave rides the bike to familiarize himself with this new model, gives me a progressive list of settings to try, I use them and report back.. Then again with a second list of settings for track use, report back, then likely have the front revalved.

Street testing is complete, and here copy-pasted below is the list he gave me for the street, with my results below. Stay tuned after my May 8th Chuckwalla testing..

Rider weight including street gear approx 160lbs. Naked I weigh like 145. No, not sending pics =D Tires are fresh set of Dunlop Q3s, 32F/30R cold because at higher pressures the dunlops, known to be a hard carcass tire (dont forget carbon fiber nonsense in the sidewalls) would maybe mask a bit of whats going on with the suspension. NOTE: Dave raised the forks (meaning front end moves closer to the ground, more of forks sticking up from the triple) 2 millimeters, and this significantly improved the steering. He said he had to drag the front brake to get it to turn before raising forks.. If you're dropping the rear as others have done for earlier models then you're doing it wrong. Dropping rear = bike wants to run even wider, probably. On to the test bits....

Street test plan:
1. Fork preload 0, compression 20 clicks out, rebound 25 clicks out and shock preload as is, low speed 16 clicks out, high speed 3.5 turns out, rebound 16 clicks out

2. Fork preload 6 turns in, compression 16 clicks out, rebound 20 clicks out and shock preload as is, low speed 12 clicks out, high speed 2.75 turns out, rebound 12 clicks out

3. Fork preload 9 turns in, compression 12 clicks out, rebound 16 clicks out and shock preload as is, low speed 12 clicks out, high speed 2 turns out, rebound 8 clicks out

4. Fork preload 9 turns in, compression 20 clicks out, rebound 25 clicks out and #1 shock settings

....results:

#1 this was already pretty good. most common elements such as holding a line, chassis stability and whatnot were good. even for my weight this setting is pretty comfy although as you might imagine, there are a few tradeoffs with braking and throttle behavior. some dumbass turned left in front of me with 2sec to spare. i grabbed enough front brake to trigger abs immediately, and the front nosed around slightly. maybe due to no preload at all.. load it up all at once under hard braking and youre sending the front end straight to the floor of course. one other theory is that this bike auto-applies the rear brake for you also, so drag from the rear which i dont normally apply may have made the situation feel a little different. the front wheel did what it had to do to track forward. no big deal though. despite all this thanksgiving gravy, all the softness produced only a little pitch/squat from the throttle, including max throttle 5th gear and top gear roll-ons. tried it in 3rd also but it'd wheelie every time, d'oh. this was to see if the bike would squat a bit when doing something like getting on the gas passing a car on a highway, movement that a passenger might not appreciate. with the bike leaned over, on/off the throttle with suspension so soft produced slight movement but nothing to really mention. i like engine braking, a little too much, need to stop that shit. #1 bad for the track though, the front wouldnt even stay pressed against the pavement very well, probably.

#2 this was better. one road i used for testing was US52.. shallow scallop style bumps in concrete, ugh. Feel it in my truck too, those small tight fast bumps a couple times per second. Bumps were better and only a little noticeable on this setting. Slightly less chassis pitch/squat under heavy brake/throttle. line holding was sharper, probably due to front not pogo'ing *slightly* under my aggressive direction changes cuz its a big difference between no preload <-> any preload. overall excellent compromise through turns/during leaning between bike movement and line holding. lets be clear.. i ride my bike like angry sex, thats what the hell i bought it for. based on now using harder tires, i wanted more fork spring movement though. i think maybe a tad less preload?

#3 this put the suspension out of compliant range for my weight and was generally kinda harsh at all times. it was even sharper still through turns while leaned over, but at what price? the front felt razor sharp always, whether on the gas or brakes, and these settings produced noticeably less secondary movement of the front immediately after coming back down to the ground from a wheelie. pretty simple, its harder to move suspension which is set stiffer, but yeah.. Dave told me about an oil seal which is at the bottom of the fork shim stack in this bike, which he says he's removed on other bikes for significant improvement. I think with #3 the valving started to show the sharpness that many of us are assuming was the spring rate, including me, cuz it always is. Or was.

#4 this one was strange, my jury still out. as you see, its same as #1 but with preload. so in some situations it was better than #1, and other times it was worse. mostly the more aggressive you ride the bike, the better it was, as the front would deal with all the throwing around a little better. seemed like somewhat heavy bumps and/or direction changes were needed to get 'past' the preload, at which point the forks start moving around and things proceed.

i invite you, ladies/gents to try these yourself and post up. im at chuckwalla may 8th sunday, trying out the list of track settings dave already provided me a while back. anyone going? post up =)
 
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So, some guy you may have heard of, named Dave, has been THE suspension guy for many years now. Dave Moss has somewhere around 20 years experience of tuning. Watch these short vids and you'll get the idea, for those of you that somehow may not know who Dave Moss is. In the third vid, where he explains the adjusters, I think thats my black R1 haha. Check him out on feelthetrack.com, some good stuff there, and maybe throw him some PayPal love while you're there. Nicest guy ever, he should charge more than he does for all the work he does not only for all riders but lately, for those of us on a 15+ R1.
Thanks for the write-up and info. As a 145lb naked man should be with an R1... im a little giddy for this. I feel stupid never seeing a bike being suspension tested the way he does at the end of his tuneups. Great vids btw.
 

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my genius knows no bounds
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Discussion Starter #6
Yeah all those settings that he gave me, posted up above, should help quite a bit. Give this guy some love, the industry needs 20 more guys like him. I don't think he gets as far south as Chuckwalla/willow.. Not sure.

Keep in mind the above settings are for the street, track day stuff bit of a different ballgame. Track stuff coming soon.. May 8 can't come fast enough. I'm setting slide control to like 2 and I'm gonna spin the rear all the way out of the Bowl, it's gonna be epic
 

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my genius knows no bounds
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Discussion Starter #9
i may post them, dunno.. it occurred to me i should ask him before posting track related stuff. does that sound odd? its logical to me.. either way, may 8 im gonna do uh, excessive things with this bike. cant wait haha. if you guys try some of those street settings, post up. im curious what heavier (at least 165-170lb naked) riders think of #3..
 

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Elbow down in the rain
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i may post them, dunno.. it occurred to me i should ask him before posting track related stuff. does that sound odd? its logical to me.. either way, may 8 im gonna do uh, excessive things with this bike. cant wait haha. if you guys try some of those street settings, post up. im curious what heavier (at least 165-170lb naked) riders think of #3..
Thanks for posting this PB. I'm heavier but our roads are really rough so I've tried #2 but with the sag set for my weight (7 turns in on the front and +4mm on the spring)

Worked really well over about a 100 mile ride today and I'm not getting kicked out of the seat any more. I will try #3 next week and report back.

Something I realised changing from my previous settings to your #2 is that in trying to get more comfort I had set the fast comp too soft and the shock was collapsing over sharp bumps. Making the fast comp harder and softening the slow comp gave me more comfort by keeping the shock in it's working range. I'm guessing a stiffer spring would help this even more.

Also watched a bunch of Dave's videos, he explains stuff really well.
 
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Im currently using #2 settings and im about 148 stripped down. So smooth. Im not qualified to evaluate the suspension setting excepts for the immediate feel im experiencing, and it steers and feels wonderful. Minimal bumpiness and the front end isnt too hard. Maybe in a year or two ill be able to give a better review.

Thanks again OP.
 

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Going Gorilla
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This may have already been covered in this thread, so please ignore if so. Dave Moss is someone I work with closely at the track on most days out here in CA. When discussing options for my R1's setup, he pointed me in a direction that would increase the yield I'd get from my suspension at my pace while keeping my pocket book from crumbling with full Ohlins investment. It turns out that he and a local (Bay Area) suspension shop have worked out the kinks with a customer bike. So I opted to go with the spring/valving that they have done the R&D on. What a great decision so far!

After one day of work with Dave at a comfortable, yet fast pace at Sonoma on a bike that is new to me, I'd say that the suspension feels quite on point and really can go much further than I took it on day one. Lots of potential, but already so responsive and well damped. So it wouldn't be fair not to mention Evolution Suspension (Robert) in Santa Clara, CA. For anyone interested in the particulars, I highly recommend you give him a ring.

And also keep in mind, there are many schools of thought and approaches taken to each package by all the different suspension tuners at all the different price point. This was my choice, but that is not to say that going a different route is wrong. So always do what will work for you. And make an educated decision on this. It is a big deal for your bike.
 

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I tried his settings last summer at a track day and it was chewing up tires and I didn't like how it felt. I then tried the settings a magazine used for a bike that jason pridmore tested and like it a lot better and the tires cleaned up pretty well. tweaked it from there and rode the rest of the day without issues from tires or feel of the bike.

guys on the east coast hook up with thermosman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woB2tuL6dhk he is sometimes at track events doing what dave moss does.
 

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my genius knows no bounds
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Discussion Starter #16
ooooookay, life been a little scrambled lately, sorry.

among other things, bike got stolen =/ ugh. geico to the rescue, they pay out after 2 weeks.

i'll post up the track related part of this including settings soon.. check back and look at post # TWO in this thread soon =]
 

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I tried his settings last summer at a track day and it was chewing up tires and I didn't like how it felt. I then tried the settings a magazine used for a bike that jason pridmore tested and like it a lot better and the tires cleaned up pretty well. tweaked it from there and rode the rest of the day without issues from tires or feel of the bike.

guys on the east coast hook up with thermosman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woB2tuL6dhk he is sometimes at track events doing what dave moss does.
Do you remember what magazine article it was, or what the settings were?
 

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my genius knows no bounds
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Discussion Starter #18
i remember seeing randy, who seems to hate everything, posting in another thread saying oh wait, those settings from dave i used on the track were STREET settings, oops etcetc.

gonna post up my track stuff when i, uh, find where i put my notes. im moving end of this week so busy a bit but yeah, i'll wrap this up soon. =P
 

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I checked the owner manual and look like option 2 compression and rebound are out of range even to the softest configurations. Can you clarify OP? Thank you.
 

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The manual states different max clicks values from reality.
FWIW for the cold springtime street riding I have gone to full open on comp and reb in the front. It actually is working pretty good &#55357;&#56842;
 
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