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Discussion Starter #1
I have been having problems with my 2004 R1 eating batteries for a few years. None of the Yuasa batteries I bought would last more than a year and unless I put them on a tender every night (even during the warm season and even with daily rides) I would have issues starting the bike.
Things came to a head this past week when not even my portable jump start battery could get the bike to start. Only rolling starts going down hills.

Long story short, I dug into the bike today and yanked the starter motor. I replaced the stock starter motor with a starter motor out of a 2008 bike a couple of years ago.
I expected to either find a bunch of dirt inside, or worn brushes. Instead I found chipped magnets. Are these magnets spaced properly inside the body?

I used to have a spare starter motor... i'm going to check tomorrow to see if it is still in storage. Is there a way for me to test the starter motor off of the bike? Where do i connect the positive lead?
1008777

1008778
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The stator seems to be fine. Outputing 20 volts at idle and going up to ~ 70 volts when revved (couldn't check this alone easily because I only have two hands).

I hooked the motorcycle up to a car battery and still had issues starting it. To me, that points at the starter motor being faulty.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Problem solved. It was the starter motor. To be specific, it was the body of the motor itself which houses 4 strong magnets.

I had a partially rebuilt 2004 stock starter motor in storage, so I went and got that. I used the body of the 2004 motor (whose body was in good shape with evenly spaced magnets), and the brushes and coil from the 2008 motor.

After installing the bike started on the first try.

Disappointed that starter motors have caused me to go through 4 batteries over the past 4 years.
 

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I FEEL THE NEED...FOR SPEED.
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So,do you think a partial failure to the starter causes your batteries drain and eventually when the magnets detached the bike couldn't start at all?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Update - new problems

So,do you think a partial failure to the starter causes your batteries drain and eventually when the magnets detached the bike couldn't start at all ?
Only partially. I think that the starter motor is what prevented my motorcycle from starting. If the current from a running car battery was not able to drive the starter motor then there is no way that a cold motorcycle battery would do it.

However, it seems that my motorcycle has other serious issues. Either my stator/rotor or my voltage regulator is busted. I am leaning towards the rotor being the problem since my 2004 has very high miles on it, and magnets with crappy glue seems to be a theme with Yamaha.

After 5 or 6 rides with zero problems starting and running the bike, my electrical system cut out on me while on the highway. The first symptom was the bike starting to sputter a bit even though I was applying throttle. Then the instrument cluster went on and off. Thankfully I was near an exit. I still had to push the bike about 20 yards to a gas station. When I tried to start the bike it was clear to me that the battery was basically dead. Turning the key the instrument cluster showed an error code of 46.

At first I presumed that maybe cold weather had sapped the capacity of the off-brand battery. I went home and retrieved a fully charged Yuasa battery, installed it in the bike, did a quick test ride and then got back on the highway. About 10 miles later I noticed the same issue starting to happen and pulled off of the highway. This time I had to push the bike about 50 yards to a gas station. Again, a check showed that the battery was nearly completely drained.

After reading a few posts, what I think is happening is that the battery is is expending all of its energy but not being recharged by the stator/rotor. The voltage/current drops and the bike cannot run the fuel injectors, nor supply spark to the motor which results in the entire engine shutting down. The battery I had in the first time took 5+ hours to be recharged on my battery tender. Since I seriously doubt that I have two bad batteries I am going to try to check the stator/rotor output again. I tested it about a week ago and it seemed to deliver the proper current at idle. I did not have another set of hands, so I could not check the output at 5000 rpm.

Anyways, two electrical issues would help explain the problems I have had starting and keeping the battery charged for the past few months/years. I'll keep you guys posted.
 

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Jeeze, hope you've been able to find a solution to this. My 06 gives me starting issues when it's hot. So changing out the starter is on the list of things I need to have done to the bike.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I don't have enough money right now to buy a new generator rotor. In all likelihood the motorcycle will sit all or most of the winter until it makes sense to repair it. This will only be the 2nd winter it has sat unridden in about 10 years.
 

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When I jump mine it fires right up 10/10times but if I have the battery on a battery tender all night it's hit or miss, it might start the bike it might now, think it's just a bad battery? I have absolutely no other issues other than a slow start, no flickering lights or such. When I jump the bike the starter sounds strong as ever. I'm just broke and don't have a way to test the battery as it's been 17°F outside lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
There might be multiple issues here. As far as starting, mine made similar sounds before I inspected (and subsequently replaced) the starter motor. If the battery is on a tender all night and the tender is indicating that the battery is charged, then in all likelihood the battery is in good shape. You can test the voltage with a multimeter, but that won't tell you anything that a good battery tender with indicator light won't.

If it is the starter motor, then it might just be that the brushes need replacement....that is the cheapest fix, but between tools and the part (either the brushes, brush assembly or socket set and joints to remove the starter motor) you're still looking at a minimum of $50.

These are the codes from the Service Manual (link to a PDF is on this very same forum)

Code 18 = EXUP servo motor (lock): A lock of the EXUP servo motor is detected.
Fail-safe action by motorcycle: Performs the preventive control against motor locking. (Performs the lock release operation twice every 100 seconds.)

Code 22 = Intake temperature sensor: Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected.
Fail-safe action by motorcycle: Fixes the intake temperature to 20

I don't know what to make about the EXUP server motor because I don't know if your cat/exhaust work might be related.

If you don't have any money then you need some friends. Friends with tools.
 

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Damn, I was hoping it wasn't this. My buddy came over this morning with a battery and we hooked her up, the bikes firing right up each time we've even took her out and got her got then tried, the EXUP issue is cat related though! I'm glad that's all it is, I was told it would come on
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Could you explain what you mean in your last post? Did the bike work with a new battery? What do you mean you "got her got then tried"?
 

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64 degrees?? Pfff. I can do 90
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Looks like the 15+ ones aren't any better. 2000 miles on this one. Complete garbage. No bearings to hold the shaft, no slot/key for the magnet to sit in and some shitty glue to hold it all in place. Anyone who uses glue to keep a force loaded part of this magnitude in place needs to be fired. From one engineer to another, whoever you are sir, you are p*ss poor at your job:
1009019


The net result is an off axis later loading force of the idler shaft in the crank case housing boss. No sleeve, no re-enforcement, nothing but a crappy little copper crush washer to hold a little M6 bolt in place. Complete design and quality control failure on multiple fronts.
1009020
 

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Looks like the 15+ ones aren't any better. 2000 miles on this one. Complete garbage. No bearings to hold the shaft, no slot/key for the magnet to sit in and some shitty glue to hold it all in place. Anyone who uses glue to keep a force loaded part of this magnitude in place needs to be fired. From one engineer to another, whoever you are sir, you are p*ss poor at your job: View attachment 1009019

The net result is an off axis later loading force of the idler shaft in the crank case housing boss. No sleeve, no re-enforcement, nothing but a crappy little copper crush washer to hold a little M6 bolt in place. Complete design and quality control failure on multiple fronts.
View attachment 1009020
Yeah man! I've always been team Yamaha, but seriously!? Who uses glue to hold ANYTHING together in an engine!?
 

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The magnets on the starter yoke on the top pictures shifted. They are supposed to be evenly spaced. Its a total of 4 magnets, (2 positive polarity)(2 negative polarity) and they are glued to the housing. Once this glue comes undone you are done, you need to buy a new starter. All the magnetic yokes are like this, and 99% of the motorcycle starters are also built like this. Sometimes the magnets shift inside the housing and the starter still turns, but this affects the polarity so the starter draws more current in order to turn the engine, this is why if you have a weak battery the bike wont start.

This is how the majority of motorcycle starters look:
1010807


And this is how the magnets in the yoke are supposed to look:
1010808


Notice how they are evenly spaced out.

The most common problem I fix on these starters are the brushes wearing out, which is an easy and cheap fix for you grease monkeys out there, and also the bushings get worn out because of lack of grease (lubrication). So if you ever want to refresh you starter, make sure you put some grease in the bushings to prevent future problems.
 

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Man, just went through this with my charging system and now as I'm pulling my motor apart I find the gaskets on my starter to have failed. Upon opening it up I see one magnet has dislodged itself and pushed up agains another. Bike was starting just fine prior to pulling the engine & inspecting the starter but now that I know it's failed I've got to address it. One more purchase to add to this rebuild. Glad I caught it while the motor was out of thebike vs. trying to dig in there once everything was back together
 
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