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Discussion Starter #41
Unfortunately, that eBay item isn't going to work with your wiring harness. That's a 2012-14 ecu, so you have to get a 2012 harness to go with it (+ some other mods, if you wanna get the full 2014 package). If you're going to be changing ecu and harness, you might as well go with an American set that doesn't need have an immobilizer/ need the immo bypass.

I also wouldn't count on a flash removing the immo function on a euro ecu. You have to ask the seller to confirm what mods were done during the flash.
Thanks for spotting that out pal, saved me some head work there lol.. the seller of the bike didn't really have a great deal of info on what's been done. There is another seller I'm ebay who I have contacted and he has 3 sets for sale not badly priced in my opinion.. I 've messaged him back and asked if he has an ignition there to go with it as mines got damage on the steering lock.. do you think of of those sets should cure it? Cheers
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Spoke to the guy I mentioned above on eBay and it turns out they are a big reputable company and can do me a replacement ecu with transponder and new ignition with 3 keys for £400, I'm happy with that to get it sorted.. sadly postie didn't bring my immobilizer emulator today so haven't managed to see if that's going to cure it.. plan is once emulator arrives try it and if it don't work I'll order the new set so it comes on Friday.. In the meantime I'm waiting on a price back to have this repaired
1012819

I've seen some full fairing sets in matte black for £350 which I'm tempted by, any thoughts on aftermarket plastics? Anyone else tried them?
 

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Spoke to the guy I mentioned above on eBay and it turns out they are a big reputable company and can do me a replacement ecu with transponder and new ignition with 3 keys for £400, I'm happy with that to get it sorted.. sadly postie didn't bring my immobilizer emulator today so haven't managed to see if that's going to cure it.. plan is once emulator arrives try it and if it don't work I'll order the new set so it comes on Friday.. In the meantime I'm waiting on a price back to have this repaired View attachment 1012819
I've seen some full fairing sets in matte black for £350 which I'm tempted by, any thoughts on aftermarket plastics? Anyone else tried them?
I have aftermarket fairings from auctmarts on my GSX-R750 that I rebuilt. Similar to your situation. Had to rebuild it a second time after a truck knocked it down in my driveway. Here’s a picture, I’m very pleased with the fairings, except the tank cover was garbage but it was only because the mounting tabs we angled incorrectly and they snapped. With the R1 the way that it mounts, I doubt you’d have that trouble!
1012820

They look pretty nice! That’s AFTER they were hit by a truck, I did touch them up a little but no scratches or dents. Hole alignment was near perfect one hole was off by less than a mm and was super easy to file it down a bit, and fitment is awesome, no visible lines with any larger clearances than factory. But I can only speak for auctmarts.

EDIT: Said no scratches or dents, meant no cracks or dents, obviously there were scratches lol but I touched them up hahah.
 

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Hi all, I've just bought a 2009 model, I bought it as a non runner with the hope of getting it mint for the summer..
Firstly this is what I know.. it was used daily and running well until one day some scummy little shits tried stealing it, they snapped the steering lock and butchered the ignition wiring, luckily the owner heard them and scared them off but by this point the bike was on the floor with the seat off and wires everywhere, he basically lost interest in the bike and it sat for a little over a year... I've charged the battery up and it seems to be holding ok (ill get a lithium one as I've read in other threads once i get it running).. the ignition barrel is intact and works I have both keys, now here's where my problems lie..
The bike won't start (I didn't expect it to!), basically I've joined the ignition wiring back up as a temp repair (Just to try and get it going) they are all well joined so connections are fine as a temp fix.. there seems to be something missing from under the seat, as you can see it the pic there is 4 black wires in a block.. whatever they plug into is missing, can someone please confirm what should be plugged in here? View attachment 1012735
View attachment 1012736
Also whatever does plug in there is it possible that would cause the fuel pump to not prime or show any signs of life?..
I have removed the fuel pump and flushed the tank while I had the pump out I put a 12v feed to it on the bench to eliminate it and it works fine..
So just to confirm battery is charged, display and clocks all working, display doesn't dim when cranking, bike cranks over nicely but no life from fuel pump, is it to do with the missing part? What is the missing part? I'll be thankful to anyone who can offer me some advice
matt
Try a wire between the connector and see what it is or ask someone with a 09 to send you a picture of there one
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Immobiliser emulator came today.. connected it up and it's cleared the hi warning on the temp which I'm guessing has worked and turned off the immobiliser.. it's now letting me get to the fault codes Here and it's showing 23 which was tilt sensor and 41 which was atmospheric pressure lead but the 41 shouldn't cause a starting issue.. so gonna focus on the tilt sensor.. I've had a quick look on here and some say to try rotate it 180° so just gonna pop out to try that now.. I shall update shortly .. any advice in these tilt sensors appreciated.. the bike was on dropped on its side when the thieves ran off.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Well bugger me! I took the tilt sensor off and give it a shake and it fired straight up.. Vroom vroom! I'm buzzing!! I had already ordered the new ecu transponder and ignition for £400 and that's due tomorrow.. so gonna stick the new set up on the bike(at least I know it's got an immobiliser then) and I'll sell the existing set up to recoup some costs.. next up is the other fault code, I'll investigate that after taking the dog for a stroll.. I'll update later on my findings
 

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Well bugger me! I took the tilt sensor off and give it a shake and it fired straight up.. Vroom vroom! I'm buzzing!! I had already ordered the new ecu transponder and ignition for £400 and that's due tomorrow.. so gonna stick the new set up on the bike(at least I know it's got an immobiliser then) and I'll sell the existing set up to recoup some costs.. next up is the other fault code, I'll investigate that after taking the dog for a stroll.. I'll update later on my findings
I am actually STOKED for you man!!!! So glad to hear. No better feeling lol...
You get a price on that carbon fiber front cowl repair after? I have a feeling it will be more than the entire fairing kit lol
But I mean it's carbon fiber by the looks of it so worth it imo...

If you have trouble with error code 41, let me know and I'll help ya sort it out best I can!
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I am actually STOKED for you man!!!! So glad to hear. No better feeling lol...
You get a price on that carbon fiber front cowl repair after? I have a feeling it will be more than the entire fairing kit lol
But I mean it's carbon fiber by the looks of it so worth it imo...

If you have trouble with error code 41, let me know and I'll help ya sort it out best I can!
Thanks a lot bro.. i can't find anyone who will repair it so I see it as I'm at no loss to have a go myself, I've bought a repair kit and gonna have a try over the weekend to see if I can do get it looking half abouts if not I'll get a new cone and get it painted for about £100 all in.. I'll keep you up to date
 

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Discussion Starter #50
I am actually STOKED for you man!!!! So glad to hear. No better feeling lol...
You get a price on that carbon fiber front cowl repair after? I have a feeling it will be more than the entire fairing kit lol
But I mean it's carbon fiber by the looks of it so worth it imo...

If you have trouble with error code 41, let me know and I'll help ya sort it out best I can!
Thanks a lot bro.. i can't find anyone who will repair it so I see it as I'm at no loss to have a go myself, I've bought a repair kit and gonna have a try over the weekend to see if I can do get it looking half abouts if not I'll get a new cone and get it painted for about £100 all in.. I'll keep you up to date
 

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Well bugger me! I took the tilt sensor off and give it a shake and it fired straight up.. Vroom vroom! I'm buzzing!! I had already ordered the new ecu transponder and ignition for £400 and that's due tomorrow.. so gonna stick the new set up on the bike(at least I know it's got an immobiliser then) and I'll sell the existing set up to recoup some costs.. next up is the other fault code, I'll investigate that after taking the dog for a stroll.. I'll update later on my findings
Good feelings.
 

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...it's now letting me get to the fault codes Here and it's showing 23 which was tilt sensor and 41 which was atmospheric pressure lead but the 41 shouldn't cause a starting issue.. so gonna focus on the tilt sensor..
Was stoked to see you got it running m8!

As for the fault codes, you have it backwards.

1012947



1012946
 

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kickin' at the darkness
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That’s crap. It isn’t going to hurt it. I’ve read so many threads and articles and have never seen the “why.” It’s always “well that’s what I’ve always been told.”
maybe in this case the one providing 'advice' was not directly aware as to the 'why' but then that is not unusual when it comes to electronics, electrical components.. The documentation as to the 'why' is definitely available though.

others do offer the following as a 'response'. My best friend's dad used to be an instructor in
'electricity' / electrical work and did assist me in getting my R1 going once.

Manufacturers do not recommend attempting to jump start a motorcycle battery from a car. The reason is that car batteries are much larger and have a much higher amperage (more power) and can damage a motorcycle battery. Life doesn't always cooperate, however, and you may find yourself with little alternative. The good news is that with proper precautions, you can jump start a motorcycle battery from a car without damaging the bike and with little risk to the battery.

I’ll get another electrical engineer in here. I just have the college degree but don’t necessarily work in the field every day. @bacchus40
read above, i've had to do it.. its not 'recommended' across the board as there's so many different cars and car charging systems that its impossible to assume its going to be okay.

we put the cables across my battery, i believe we revved up the car so as to deliver a little charging current, but only briefly then turned it off. Eventually the R1 did come to life. Believe it or not this was with my SHORAI LifePo4!! it may be a little different in this case as the LifePo4 batteries do 'charge' to a much higher voltage than 'run of the mill' batteries, but it worked.

Would I have done it without an trained 'professional electrician' being present? probably not, the biggest thing is not to use the bike battery (neg) terminal for ground, instead use an exposed bolt or frame ground. This reduces the risk of something going wrong. ;) :D

I found out my starter was dying and it had effectively drained my battery dead.. got the shorai charger and brought it back to life 100% no issues even after we'd 'jump started' it.. Obviously the car was 'off' when we actually started the bike though.
 

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Venom X/O
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maybe in this case the one providing 'advice' was not directly aware as to the 'why' but then that is not unusual when it comes to electronics, electrical components.. The documentation as to the 'why' is definitely available though.

others do offer the following as a 'response'. My best friend's dad used to be an instructor in
'electricity' / electrical work and did assist me in getting my R1 going once.

Manufacturers do not recommend attempting to jump start a motorcycle battery from a car. The reason is that car batteries are much larger and have a much higher amperage (more power) and can damage a motorcycle battery. Life doesn't always cooperate, however, and you may find yourself with little alternative. The good news is that with proper precautions, you can jump start a motorcycle battery from a car without damaging the bike and with little risk to the battery.



read above, i've had to do it.. its not 'recommended' across the board as there's so many different cars and car charging systems that its impossible to assume its going to be okay.

we put the cables across my battery, i believe we revved up the car so as to deliver a little charging current, but only briefly then turned it off. Eventually the R1 did come to life. Believe it or not this was with my SHORAI LifePo4!! it may be a little different in this case as the LifePo4 batteries do 'charge' to a much higher voltage than 'run of the mill' batteries, but it worked.

Would I have done it without an trained 'professional electrician' being present? probably not, the biggest thing is not to use the bike battery (neg) terminal for ground, instead use an exposed bolt or frame ground. This reduces the risk of something going wrong. ;) :D

I found out my starter was dying and it had effectively drained my battery dead.. got the shorai charger and brought it back to life 100% no issues even after we'd 'jump started' it.. Obviously the car was 'off' when we actually started the bike though.
How does amperage work? Is it a force or a draw?
What you’ve given us another opinion as to why “it’s not recommended” with no proof.

aren’t Amps a draw; so technically the bike couldn’t pull more amps than it could handle? I genuinely want to know because I’ve read so many contradicting theories yet no solid “this is why you can’t: blah blah blah”
 

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kickin' at the darkness
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cca and 'amperage' of a 'charging system' are two entirely different things. Though may be
based on similar principles. I think you're getting 'caught up' in wanting a burning car on the
side of the road in your search for 'proofs' of this or that. As such you're jumping way ahead
of what was posted, in search for an 'argument', when if you read the post you'd understand
I was actually coming from 'your side of things'. I study electronics and I have indeed BLOWN to smithereens several electronic components merely by EXCEEDING a system's 'power requirements'. Meaning the system is designed to work when a certain amount of power is provided and if you push those limits, it CAN be destroyed. But we're now talking about a function of 'voltage' vs 'amperage' and the resulting 'power'. I provided 24Vac to an enter-phone system which is meant to run on a 16Vac power transformer. The system did run, it booted up and went through the start up process. We populated a database for entry. But the 1st time it was actually used to call somebody and attempt to gain entry, all we saw was SMOKE.. It never functioned again. Is it possible to get away with more voltage, or less, more current or less, in a given situation, sure it is. But it CAN also go very wrong. So, theory would definitely seem to confirm that increasing the amount of current provided to a 'system' there by providing, 'substantially' more 'power', then YES, a battery, and or the 'systems' electronic components can indeed be blown to death. I haVe pictures if you would like to see them. When it comes to transformers in the field, even though you're seeing voltage ratings we're actually using its VA ratings, which is why it can make a difference. There are other systems which will run on either, but as soon as power requireements are exceeded, or simply not met, things get tricky. Thats all, some components ARE WAY more sensitive than others, specially in modern motorcycles..

Having said all that, my old man is a mechanic and has always 'recommended' against 'jump starting' a motorcycle battery from dead, via use of an automobile battery. But you need to understand that is kind of like a rule of thumb it seems. Meaning you're not discussing any particulars in terms of 'which car battery you're speaking of, nor its charging circuit, much less the actual motorcycle in question, there is no mention of even a cc rating for said bike, of course a 250cc bike would use a much smaller battery than an R1 would.

This is not exactly my field and as such I myself had never tried it, but i did have to physically
JUMP start an old 80cc trials bike back in the 70s, even when there was a 'car' around.

Either way, As my best friends father is an instructor at the top local technical college I figured
I could trust his knowledge. He basically said, its not so much the battery itself, but the 'charging'
system of the vehicle in use. But this, he explained as matter of fact, in that if the vehicle in
question is actually a 5 or 10 tonne truck, which uses 6 LARGE batteries in order to operate, you
would not exactly rush out to start your 250cc bike with it, would you? Hey, you go out and buy
the bike, go ahead and do so!! then post your results!! we all need proof you have a credit card :D

As you can see, i actually 'agreed'!! read the words ffs. It is in fact possible to start an R1 battery whilst using a 'random' commuter sedan, BUT the caveat here is the car itself was OFF!! meaning you've just basically placed its OWN BATTERY in PARALLEL with that of your own bike and are thus using its starting power to get the bike going, if there is nothing wrong with the bikes own charging system, a few mi nutes above 1500 rpm will be sufficient to charge the battery back up.. And it did, once I got home I was able to re-start the bike a few times which is how I was able to hear what sounds the starter was making, right up until it shunt itself. I only had to recharge my shorai back up and replace the starter.. Nothing wrong with the bike afterward, this was almost 10 years ago.

So, sorry if i cant provide the proof you so desire, i can only tell you the ADVICE i received
which proved to be beneficial in my particular circumstance. You're allowed to wax poetic
all you want, but since you're not an electrical engineer, i'm not about to volunteer to 'create'
some stupid scenario which merely satisfies your own curiosity.
 

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cca and 'amperage' of a 'charging system' are two entirely different things. Though may be
based on similar principles. I think you're getting 'caught up' in wanting a burning car on the
side of the road in your search for 'proofs' of this or that. As such you're jumping way ahead
of what was posted, in search for an 'argument', when if you read the post you'd understand
I was actually coming from 'your side of things'. I study electronics and I have indeed BLOWN to smithereens several electronic components merely by EXCEEDING a system's 'power requirements'. Meaning the system is designed to work when a certain amount of power is provided and if you push those limits, it CAN be destroyed. But we're now talking about a function of 'voltage' vs 'amperage' and the resulting 'power'. I provided 24Vac to an enter-phone system which is meant to run on a 16Vac power transformer. The system did run, it booted up and went through the start up process. We populated a database for entry. But the 1st time it was actually used to call somebody and attempt to gain entry, all we saw was SMOKE.. It never functioned again. Is it possible to get away with more voltage, or less, more current or less, in a given situation, sure it is. But it CAN also go very wrong. So, theory would definitely seem to confirm that increasing the amount of current provided to a 'system' there by providing, 'substantially' more 'power', then YES, a battery, and or the 'systems' electronic components can indeed be blown to death. I haVe pictures if you would like to see them. When it comes to transformers in the field, even though you're seeing voltage ratings we're actually using its VA ratings, which is why it can make a difference. There are other systems which will run on either, but as soon as power requireements are exceeded, or simply not met, things get tricky. Thats all, some components ARE WAY more sensitive than others, specially in modern motorcycles..

Having said all that, my old man is a mechanic and has always 'recommended' against 'jump starting' a motorcycle battery from dead, via use of an automobile battery. But you need to understand that is kind of like a rule of thumb it seems. Meaning you're not discussing any particulars in terms of 'which car battery you're speaking of, nor its charging circuit, much less the actual motorcycle in question, there is no mention of even a cc rating for said bike, of course a 250cc bike would use a much smaller battery than an R1 would.

This is not exactly my field and as such I myself had never tried it, but i did have to physically
JUMP start an old 80cc trials bike back in the 70s, even when there was a 'car' around.

Either way, As my best friends father is an instructor at the top local technical college I figured
I could trust his knowledge. He basically said, its not so much the battery itself, but the 'charging'
system of the vehicle in use. But this, he explained as matter of fact, in that if the vehicle in
question is actually a 5 or 10 tonne truck, which uses 6 LARGE batteries in order to operate, you
would not exactly rush out to start your 250cc bike with it, would you? Hey, you go out and buy
the bike, go ahead and do so!! then post your results!! we all need proof you have a credit card :D

As you can see, i actually 'agreed'!! read the words ffs. It is in fact possible to start an R1 battery whilst using a 'random' commuter sedan, BUT the caveat here is the car itself was OFF!! meaning you've just basically placed its OWN BATTERY in PARALLEL with that of your own bike and are thus using its starting power to get the bike going, if there is nothing wrong with the bikes own charging system, a few mi nutes above 1500 rpm will be sufficient to charge the battery back up.. And it did, once I got home I was able to re-start the bike a few times which is how I was able to hear what sounds the starter was making, right up until it shunt itself. I only had to recharge my shorai back up and replace the starter.. Nothing wrong with the bike afterward, this was almost 10 years ago.

So, sorry if i cant provide the proof you so desire, i can only tell you the ADVICE i received
which proved to be beneficial in my particular circumstance. You're allowed to wax poetic
all you want, but since you're not an electrical engineer, i'm not about to volunteer to 'create'
some stupid scenario which merely satisfies your own curiosity.
So in layman’s terms; jump start the bike with the car turned off. Too easy.
 

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kickin' at the darkness
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10,241 Posts
for shits and giggles, see attached SPEC sheet for a very common / simple SMP5 power supply, it has several components that all serve a purpose. You can see in the description, it has various uses for 'our' day to day needs, and some of those systems are a lot more sensitive than others. Following these guidelines is common as muck when dealing with electronics.

Due to the internal limits of 'all components involved', various requirements are specified, as well as limitations of said system. These numbers I have highlighted ALL have a specific meaning. It is very much possible to exceed these limits as well as it is to fall absurdly short of, at which time nothing happens.. I have seen it do all sorts of weird shit to whatever equipment i'm powering with it, even though i was 'technically' within safety limits.. Sometimes shit just goes BOOM!

its important to understand sometimes a battery is just a battery, a 'vehicle's charging system', is entirely something else. It is an engineered bit of equipment, and you better believe it follows the Ohm's law.. Notice it is not called, Ohm's 'theory'.. :)

1013084
 

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Venom X/O
Joined
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23,667 Posts
cca and 'amperage' of a 'charging system' are two entirely different things. Though may be
based on similar principles. I think you're getting 'caught up' in wanting a burning car on the
side of the road in your search for 'proofs' of this or that. As such you're jumping way ahead
of what was posted, in search for an 'argument', when if you read the post you'd understand
I was actually coming from 'your side of things'. I study electronics and I have indeed BLOWN to smithereens several electronic components merely by EXCEEDING a system's 'power requirements'. Meaning the system is designed to work when a certain amount of power is provided and if you push those limits, it CAN be destroyed. But we're now talking about a function of 'voltage' vs 'amperage' and the resulting 'power'. I provided 24Vac to an enter-phone system which is meant to run on a 16Vac power transformer. The system did run, it booted up and went through the start up process. We populated a database for entry. But the 1st time it was actually used to call somebody and attempt to gain entry, all we saw was SMOKE.. It never functioned again. Is it possible to get away with more voltage, or less, more current or less, in a given situation, sure it is. But it CAN also go very wrong. So, theory would definitely seem to confirm that increasing the amount of current provided to a 'system' there by providing, 'substantially' more 'power', then YES, a battery, and or the 'systems' electronic components can indeed be blown to death. I haVe pictures if you would like to see them. When it comes to transformers in the field, even though you're seeing voltage ratings we're actually using its VA ratings, which is why it can make a difference. There are other systems which will run on either, but as soon as power requireements are exceeded, or simply not met, things get tricky. Thats all, some components ARE WAY more sensitive than others, specially in modern motorcycles..

Having said all that, my old man is a mechanic and has always 'recommended' against 'jump starting' a motorcycle battery from dead, via use of an automobile battery. But you need to understand that is kind of like a rule of thumb it seems. Meaning you're not discussing any particulars in terms of 'which car battery you're speaking of, nor its charging circuit, much less the actual motorcycle in question, there is no mention of even a cc rating for said bike, of course a 250cc bike would use a much smaller battery than an R1 would.

This is not exactly my field and as such I myself had never tried it, but i did have to physically
JUMP start an old 80cc trials bike back in the 70s, even when there was a 'car' around.

Either way, As my best friends father is an instructor at the top local technical college I figured
I could trust his knowledge. He basically said, its not so much the battery itself, but the 'charging'
system of the vehicle in use. But this, he explained as matter of fact, in that if the vehicle in
question is actually a 5 or 10 tonne truck, which uses 6 LARGE batteries in order to operate, you
would not exactly rush out to start your 250cc bike with it, would you? Hey, you go out and buy
the bike, go ahead and do so!! then post your results!! we all need proof you have a credit card :D

As you can see, i actually 'agreed'!! read the words ffs. It is in fact possible to start an R1 battery whilst using a 'random' commuter sedan, BUT the caveat here is the car itself was OFF!! meaning you've just basically placed its OWN BATTERY in PARALLEL with that of your own bike and are thus using its starting power to get the bike going, if there is nothing wrong with the bikes own charging system, a few mi nutes above 1500 rpm will be sufficient to charge the battery back up.. And it did, once I got home I was able to re-start the bike a few times which is how I was able to hear what sounds the starter was making, right up until it shunt itself. I only had to recharge my shorai back up and replace the starter.. Nothing wrong with the bike afterward, this was almost 10 years ago.

So, sorry if i cant provide the proof you so desire, i can only tell you the ADVICE i received
which proved to be beneficial in my particular circumstance. You're allowed to wax poetic
all you want, but since you're not an electrical engineer, i'm not about to volunteer to 'create'
some stupid scenario which merely satisfies your own curiosity.
So you missed my context, and the part where I said I genuinely want to be educated... I don’t search for argument.
I simply asked why... why is a 12v charging system from a car going to damage a 12v charging system in a motorcycle, if 12v = 12v and the bike will only pull the required amperage.
if you’re saying you don’t know why, it’s just what you’ve always been told, then how is it a waste of time to “theorize a scenario?” I really just wanted an explanation because all I’ve read are conflicting arguments without resolve... that and someone mentioned you to “bring in an engineer.”
I didn’t mention you, and don’t require anything from you. All I’ve asked is for someone who knows why the two systems would hurt each other, and it appears there still isn’t a logical answer outside of “someone told me”
Take your condescending tone somewhere else, I don’t have one. You’ve always had a chip on your shoulder towards me.
My questions still stands to anyone who has an explanation, other than “that’s what I’ve always been told”
why can’t I ask for proof that it’s “bad.” I’ve outlined mine my stance.
As for the entire topic, it’s molded into this from previous comments, and my initial comment relates to this entire subject.

I see the “one battery could damage another” but that’s the only possibility I’ve seen outlined. But I’ve also read arguments against that so that’s why I asked. I even mentioned the potential for explosion, but read the explosion isn’t common anymore due to battery technology changes.
 
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