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kickin' at the darkness
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I was trying to explain it within the original post, in terms of what procedure was followed. Why, and what effect it has, it makes the resulting request for further proof, a bit of a moot point.

Maybe its just my knee-jerk reaction which makes it seem like an 'argument' when I read your response, in my mind it seems like asking for proofs blindly when the terminology and theory behind these is so complicated, essemtially comes off as just another way of saying you dont believe the science is real, therefore pure BS, which we know its not .. It literally takes years to be able to explain things even in layman's terms.. I think you need to understand what is behind a recommendation. When it comes to electronics, specifics are very important. The spec sheet I posted is for a 25 dollar part, and you can see it is very much a customizable device. But even most in the field have a hard time explaining things in more detail.

I was not trying to get all pissy, i'm simply saying if all you're saying is 'car battery' 'jump start' and 'bike battery' with absolutely no details whatsoever and yet wanting PROOF that it is okay or not to do something vs the other, well, this argument is gonna go nowhere fast!

Lets put it this way, I work specifically in electronics, mostly in low voltage devices. Dad is the mechanic in the family, and as mentioned it was a highly trained electrician who assisted when i ran into the very real issue of a dead motorcycle battery.

We discussed the 'terminology' that is often used (in error) and the argument that soon takes place. If you read what i've posted, you would realize i did not in fact actually JUMP START my R1 with a vehicles charging system.. That system in itself was off, i merely utilized the battery attached to his vehicle in order to start my bike. Again, absolutely no specifics need to be added in regards to the car's charging system. This is where your questions begin, but you're chasing a ghost.

What i mean is in this particular case, i merely utilized the 'charging' potential of the car's battery in order to start my own engine, at that point my engine took over and started charging its own battery. The only current use comes from my bike's electrical system 'drawing' available current stored within the car's battery to get its own juices going. This is the point, the car's sytem itself is not PROVIDING any actual current above or beyond what the battery already has. Since he had just driven his car down to meet me, it was a safe bet it was charged.

IF we had instead treated it like any other normal jumpstart I would have hooked up the batteries, started the car, revved it up to 2k rpm and after a few minutes of 'charging' my own battery, ie jump starting it, as the car is running, you try to start the bike until it can run on its own.. Then, but only then do you have a question of two seemingly identical systems that both can run on the power provided by a 12V battery. What the manufacturer is actually saying in this case, the car's charging system and current / power it can provide is designed to work with your car's electronic system requirements. Since you dont have actual data on hand to discuss and you dont know what your motorycles own current / power requirements are, then you could be causing damage to your battery, your ecu, or other electronic components not protected by a fuse.

the bike's battery at point of 'charge' or start is not the only thing connected to get the bike's
engine running though is it? its purely a tool. So if the car you've chosen to 'jump start' the bike is equipped with a more powerful charging system, (ie, higher current) with actually provides a much higher amount of power, then yes, you will not only BLOW up your own battery but likely heavily damage other sensitive systems.. That is literally ALL that is being said, the proof you are requesting requires actually carrying out that experiment and finding out what happens in a particular situation.. I am not about to volunteer my car, nor my bike in order to find out what would actually happen in 'my situation'.. For very obvious reasons.


What i meant originally is actually even simpler than that, as you can see it took a few hundred words to even explain where the confusion lies, if you are not in electronics and have no real knowledge as to how ohm's or power laws work, do you really think you'd be elaborating things to a point that makes you happy about the answer? Of course not, all you would say, in order to avoid an argument is to repeat what the 'manufacturer' claims to be a dangerous proposal.

Again, is it possible to do so without damaging things? yes, very much so, but its also
possible to start a fire and kill yourself along with your motorcycle, just because you didnt
follow a 'caution' from the bloody manufacturer. That is what is actually being said. In your scenario, you're discussing something entirely different, yet you are not specifically understanding which system is drawing current, which system is providing charging current, and much less, even what power requirements the two make use of. In my example you have a bike's charging system, its electronic equipment, and a car battery.

My bike, in my particular scenario, never even realizes there is a car plugged into that exact same battery i used to start it up. My own battery was dead, so it was for all intents and purposes, also out of the picture. It was merely trying to draw enough current to 'start' accepting charge. But i doubt it had much to do with actually starting the bike. Therefore it was my own charging / electrical system that was 'drawing' current from a fully charged 'car battery'. This is why the discussion becomes much more straight forward.

I used 'transformer' above as an example of a 'power supply' as it is easy to see how it can provide 'power' in order to run an electronic component. But your scenario doesnt really make sense, a transformer is merely a big magnet with two windings, the primary and the secondary. A 24Vac (most commonly a step down) transformer merely converts (via use of migrant electrons, or more specifically 'induced current') the provided 120Vac at the primary, and in turn provides you, the user, 24Vac on its secondary windings. If you were to 'send' a much higher voltage or provide a higher voltage at its primary windings would most likely cause the internal wires to melt and start a fire, literally nothing but smoke. Ive seen this happen on a shorted circuit as well. So, taking that theory back to the car/bike scenario, if the bikes' system is meant to work under a certain power requirement, you could 'almost' say because it cant possibly utilize all the 'current' or 'power' now being provided by a running car's charging system, then the exact same would happen. Several devices burn up when you provide excessive power, even though the device itself draws much lower current, if only plugged into a battery.

Its an incredibly complicated topic to discuss without specifics.. Which is why a 'rule of thumb' is all most use. Otherwise you are taking a risk which is not recommended.
 

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kickin' at the darkness
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Discussion Starter #63
Was stoked to see you got it running m8!

As for the fault codes, you have it backwards.

View attachment 1012947


View attachment 1012946
Yeah got a bit exited when I was writing the message lol.. cheers tho mate 👍
Bit of an update took the bike for its mot test yesterday and it passed with just an advisory on rear pads so new ones coming tomorrow.. I've always rode mx and enduro this is my first full fairing bike and I really struggled! My Mrs asked me what what it like and the only way I can describe it is a missile powered boat!🤣 it's gonna take some getting used to, any kind steering below 40mph is twitchy arse time!! ... I had a go of the front headlight repair and am happy enough with the finish, I'll stick some pics up shortly.. spent most of the day clay barring it and it's come up well.. just gonna have some grub and I'll take some pics to stick them up
 
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