2015 R1 Engine Break-in Procedure

26756 Views 87 Replies 31 Participants Last post by tobarus, Apr 25, 2016

Ckempf

Discussion Starter · Mar 15, 2015

Anyone know what Yamaha is recommending on breaking this monster in?

41 - 60 of 88 Posts

Roadracer86

· #41 · Mar 17, 2015

Silas said:
I have no interest in the arguments on the topic, but I did want to ask about something as it seems you work in the industry vertical.

I've read/heard that new engines ship with particular special additives which assist in the breakin of the engine, and that changing the oil too early would prematurely remove that "break-in oil". What are your thoughts on that? Is that something restricted only to cars?

I can tell you I work for VW/Audi in the technical side for 15 years and we do not use a special formulation for break in oil. The high end Audi stuff comes new with full synthetic and the VW lines have either a full or semi-synthetic from the factory.

I think your question maybe manufacturer specific but my opinion is that really nobody that I know of still uses a special break-in formulation. I could be wrong though.

Millers_Yamaha

· #42 · Mar 17, 2015

Roadracer86 said:
I can tell you I work for VW/Audi in the technical side for 15 years and we do not use a special formulation for break in oil. The high end Audi stuff comes new with full synthetic and the VW lines have either a full or semi-synthetic from the factory.

I think your question maybe manufacturer specific but my opinion is that really nobody that I know of still uses a special break-in formulation. I could be wrong though.

Roadracer is spot on. The fluids in the bikes from the factory are the same formula as the Yamalube products you can buy. No special additives. If we need to top off a new model during PDI, we use fluids straight off the shelf.

The Governor

· #43 · Mar 18, 2015 (Edited)

Silas said:
I have no interest in the arguments on the topic, but I did want to ask about something as it seems you work in the industry vertical.

I've read/heard that new engines ship with particular special additives which assist in the breakin of the engine, and that changing the oil too early would prematurely remove that "break-in oil". What are your thoughts on that? Is that something restricted only to cars?

There was a lawsuit against big oil about "full synthetic" a while back. Actually a couple. I'll find the links and share.

Be aware of synthetic labeling for marketing purposes. "Hey look, my car comes stock with synthetic, must be High Performance". Lmao.
Not saying they are pulling our leg, just saying the additive packages may not be as synthetic as possible.
It's still about costs.

Seriously though.
There is a gentleman in Southern CA I would urge anyone curious about oil and what not to call. He's a super nice guy and a well of knowledge on the subject. He owns a few patents in the market and is a motorcycle fan. He has some fun stories to listen to. But be warned,, he can talk for hours, lol. If you listen long enough, I promise you'll hang up with some good information.

PM me if you want his number.

Roadracer86

· #44 · Mar 18, 2015

The Governor said:
It's a mix. Some do some don't.

Honda was the only company using molybdenum disulfide which is their special break in formulation. It's an anti-wear additive that most off shelf oils do not have in either full syn or semi, unless of course it was formulated with the additive. Any oil with moly in it will specify it on the packaging. See below.

Other than Honda....which may have stopped this practice there is no one else that I'm aware of that uses a break in specific formulation.

PS, DO NOT run any oil in a wet clutch motorcycle that has a moly formulation since it will cause the clutch to slip.

Roadracer86

· #45 · Mar 18, 2015

BTW, the new oils are so efficient and the machining process drastically improved even over the last 10 years there is no need for break in oils any longer and most manufacturers recognize this and have gone away from special formulations since it saves them money.

The Governor

· #46 · Mar 18, 2015

Roadracer86 said:
Honda was the only company using molybdenum disulfide which is their special break in formulation. It's an anti-wear additive that most off shelf oils do not have in either full syn or semi, unless of course it was formulated with the additive. Any oil with moly in it will specify it on the packaging. See below.

Other than Honda....which may have stopped this practice there is no one else that I'm aware of that uses a break in specific formulation.

PS, DO NOT run any oil in a wet clutch motorcycle that has a moly formulation since it will cause the clutch to slip.

We were always told that about the clutches.

You would get along great with Kelly. I'm sure you two would have a lot to share and discuss. I know he actually formulated the race oil for honda racing for a little while.

Look,,
I'm not debating anything or anyone.
Stick with what has worked for you.
But If you want to know what else is out there,,, always keep an empty cup.

Enjoy.

PurpleLion

· #47 · Mar 18, 2015 (Edited)

In most countries except Japan and Germany hydro cracked dino oil may be labelled as synthetic when it is, in fact, not synthetic. The suit was brought by Mobil against Castrol when Castrol labelled it's dino oil as synthetic. Mobil lost the suit. Consequently, many people now believe that many formulations of Mobil 1 are no longer synthetic oils.

True synthetic oil uses synthetic base stock (not an additive package as has been erroneously suggested in this thread). Synthetic base stock would be either Group IV PAO or a Group V ester. The new R1 uses a true synthetic mix of group IV and group V.

The Governor

· #48 · Mar 18, 2015

PurpleLion said:
In most countries except Japan and Germany hydro cracked dino oil may be labelled as synthetic when it is, in fact, not synthetic. The suit was brought by Mobil against Castrol when Castrol labelled it's dino oil as synthetic. Mobil lost the suit. Consequently, many people now believe that many formulations of Mobil 1 are no longer synthetic oils.

True synthetic oil uses synthetic base stock (not an additive package as has been erroneously suggested in this thread). Synthetic base stock would be either Group IV PAO or a Group V ester. The new R1 uses a true synthetic mix of group IV and group V.

Erroneously. Haha.
You want to really break down the composition or patty cake over verbiage?

You got me.
I'll tap out. :/

As stated, earlier. Not looking for a debate nor do I want to type out 2 pages of what constitutes synthetic. Use it, its all good enough to serve its purpose.

Stick with what has worked for you.
Let's just worry about when these damn bikes will be in our garages.

Roadracer86

· #49 · Mar 18, 2015

I'm not looking to debate either but your statement about break in oil is absolute rubbish. That's my only point I'm trying get across.

The Governor

· #50 · Mar 18, 2015

Roadracer86 said:
I'm not looking to debate either but your statement about break in oil is absolute rubbish. That's my only point I'm trying get across.

My statement of break in oil?

You mean the part where I said "Some do some don't"?
That statement? Jesus, lol.

Look,, I work for a company, that lets say talks to too many other companies across a vast amount of automotive markets. Everything from Diesels to Bycycles. My one little statement about "Some do and some don't", spans across them all. I do not know if VW or Toro is currently starting with a thicker, thinner, or has a special blend to start with. I do know, in the past some companies had a certain viscosity and blend they would start out with (period). Some to today "suggest" a certain weight that people don't follow after their first oil change. For mileage reasons, or break in reasons,,,,,,, I really don't care.

I am honestly beginning to think some of you just like drama or debating.

Again,,, I agree with racer, I agree with Millers. Every experienced rider, builder, shop guy, or whatever has their own practice and opinion. It not wrong, and I'm sure they believe it to be tried and true from their experience. It's not that it's a wrong way if it's not your way. It's just a different way. And I've typed it more than a couple times.
"Stick with what you believe in." Im not on here to sway a vote or pick up fans. Just sharing information I've collected along my path. Sharing info that has worked well for me, gave me piece of mind, and most importantly never violated my warranty, ?.

There are a dozen ways to break in these kick ass machines we get to ride today. The best way is a matter of opinion. Yamaha has built some incredible machines and this is proven by no matter how you break it in,,, it runs awesomely. I mean seriously,,, has anyone posted their break in sucked and tore up the engine, lmao. (If they have I don't care, lol).

Again,, great machines, great forum to read other options, and always a great source for news on our beloved model.

Cheers to you brother.

Looking forward to breaking in my M soon.

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Roadracer86

· #51 · Mar 18, 2015

The Governor said:
My statement of break in oil?

You mean the part where I said "Some do some don't"?
That statement? Jesus, lol.

Yes that's the one. Not some do; nobody does. I'm not a drama queen or someone looking to debate someone on the interwebs. Just stating the fact that break in oil is non-existent with today's modern manufacturing processes. :beer

All Smiles

· #52 · Mar 18, 2015

And just as a note, i know the R1M comes with full synthetic

Treemugger

· #53 · Mar 18, 2015

All Smiles said:
And just as a note, i know the R1M comes with full synthetic

I noticed that. So what happened to the whole theory that full synth is too slick for break in purposes? :dunno

Sh8rk

· #54 · Mar 18, 2015

New 14 (Newbie)

Picked up my 1st one yesterday. Service manager and salesman advised to keep RPM under 8000 until I get over 100 miles or so. They also mentioned I'm due for my 1st oil change at 600. Based on some of what I've read here I'm now tempted to go in earlier than 600.

I am very new to owning motorcycles. Any suggestions will be humbly appreciated.

Thanks,

Sh8rk

JohnJohn15

· #55 · Mar 18, 2015

Treemugger said:
I noticed that. So what happened to the whole theory that full synth is too slick for break in purposes? :dunno

Forget it.
Pay attention to all the experts here.
Yamaha, They want to set you and your bike up for failure.
What would they know. They only engineered the motor.

Juerg

· #56 · Mar 19, 2015 (Edited)

Treemugger said:
I noticed that. So what happened to the whole theory that full synth is too slick for break in purposes? :dunno

A "slick" oil (what ever that may mean... ) will just reduce friction and wear, what means that the run-in period may be a bit longer.
"Synth" is more about "better control on the physical properties" and "better performance under extreme conditions" than about "being more slick. Viscosity is viscosity, regardless of how an oil was produced.

As for the whole "synth" myths, here is a good article:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a2316/4232672/

Treemugger

· #57 · Mar 19, 2015 (Edited)

Juerg said:
As for the whole "synth" myths, here is a good article:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a2316/4232672/

Cool, just funny how many myths, theories and hype about oil and filtration become mainstream "knowledge"

Edit: Now that I've read the article there is no mention of break-in, and yet there are still engine builders who say no synthetic for break-in. http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/synthetic-mistakes/

Zac Agee

· #58 · Mar 19, 2015 (Edited)

Treemugger said:
I noticed that. So what happened to the whole theory that full synth is too slick for break in purposes? :dunno

Treemugger said:
Cool, just funny how many myths, theories and hype about oil and filtration become mainstream "knowledge"

Edit: Now that I've read the article there is no mention of break-in, and yet there are still engine builders who say no synthetic for break-in. http://www.drivenracingoil.com/dro/synthetic-mistakes/

Yes and no to both... It all depends on clearances, cam type, ring type, even hone grit and cylinder material (coated or not) these all decide weather or not synthetics should be used during break in... Newer engines with roller cams and better rings won't hurt honestly.. Now a engine with flat tapper cam, steel cylinders and ductile iron moly faced rings yes your gonna eat up a cam and rings will take longer to properly seat.. Valve spring pressure plays into cam wear a lot with synthetics (we learned there was a threshold synthetics couldn't go past and not wear on flat tappet cams)..
The only engines we really broke in were flat tappet cams and street cars we would either put on the dyno and make 10 pulls increasing rpms each pull or we would do some hard pulls in the old business park doing the same thing...
All of our race stuff went out and was run full out from the start..
Everyone has there own break in method and honestly as long as your loading the engine, not idling a lot, fluctuating rpms, and not turning high rpms on cold oil your engine will be fine... Cold oil under pressure eats bearings.
Honestly we had a rule of thumb at the shop if we couldn't blow it up in house it's not gonna blow up on the customer... And most engine builders with a dyno do the same..
Depending on the combination and clearances i love synthetics.. But good conventional oil in the right combos hard to beat too..
EVERY combination is different... So there will never be a right or wrong answers to synthetics for break in or for that matter proper break in?
Just my 2cents from real world testing

P.S. There is a reason synthetics can run tighter tolerances then conventional oil!
If you want more on that feel free to pm me

Sent from Motorcycle.com Free App

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Treemugger

· #59 · Mar 19, 2015

^^^Nice write up, thanks!

bacchus40

· #60 · Mar 20, 2015

Millers_Yamaha said:
Roadracer is spot on. The fluids in the bikes from the factory are the same formula as the Yamalube products you can buy. No special additives. If we need to top off a new model during PDI, we use fluids straight off the shelf.

so every dealer i've ever spoken to is full of shit then... figures, ohh no its specifically designed as break in oil blah blah blah :shake

41 - 60 of 88 Posts

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